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Jim & Gim the Turakken
16th Jan 2003, 08:55
Hi everyone

I got startopia quite a while ago, say, 7 months, and after I completed the game (without cheats) I thought id tweak some of the spec's for the mission files like giving 9999999 E or heaps of scuzzer mk3's from Arona and such, and it made every thing so much easier but I did every thing too fast and i got a bit bored. So after all the messages ive heard on the earlier forum (before this one) about that there werent any animals for the bio deck i thought id try my skills at programming, i noticed that it'd be extremely difficult as the alien animations are all coded and thus nearly impossible to add new creatures and rooms.

But, i think ive got an idea, using the existing models ie: the skrasher, change the skin completely, instead of a black hard-looking shell, howbout a brown fury skin and tweak some of its attributes to make it non-aggresive and stay on the biodeck, if you look on the back cover of your startopia game you'll notice about 5 or so skrashers moving through a forest as a display pic, take their skin and replace it with what ive mentioned, think of it, you have flocks of these different animals scurrying about on your biodeck.

So far, ive got a tga-ddt converter aswell as the ssm, ive also got 3d studio max (the ssm comes in handy then :) ) and when the skins all finished, I or someone else can move onto the next like changing the memau skin, making it look completely different from its counter-part editing Its attributes and becoming like the skrashers theres one file (lilanimals.tga.ddt) I cant get into yet cause my friends borrowed the 3d max program quickly, ill get it back in 3 days.

But for now I would appriciatied greatly if i got some tips on programming behaviours of the creatures and skinning them too, and seeing as I want to do this I am eager to learn new ideas and methods of programming (and model creation if possible).

Im happy to be a member too :D

DMA57361
16th Jan 2003, 15:16
Welcome to the forum! :D

The skinning can be dones easily by people. There are, or were, lots of skins about for everything.

Changing behaviour can be done to some extent.

I think what you have planned would be approaching impossible with what we can do. The only thing we have are the mood changer text files for each mission. This makes changing the "side" (baddie, goodie, monster, whatever) of a race impossible, it's not an option. So the Skrashers would always be aggressive.

However, once I did try making a spy a resident - for the purposes of a custom mission. It didn't work correctly. But he was non-aggressive and if I remember correct, and I might not, there was no access to the resident screen. You could investigate that more - I don't have the time to do so myself at the moment.

Hope that helps!

Jim & Gim the Turakken
17th Jan 2003, 00:45
Thanks, i could use anything, saves me from having to check and wasting more time on possibilities, still, there might be a way, so ill be "studying" the mood.ini files in the missions, see what i can add or tweak, again, thanks :)

edit: "there are, or were, lots of skins" , what do you mean, were, what have those other skins been lost or removed from a site :confused:

Hand-E-Food
17th Jan 2003, 02:12
There are slots for creatures. In the game, hold F11 and type DEBUGINFO. Press RightShift+Tab three or four times and a list of constants will appear, including Goma and a couple of others I've forgotten the spelling of. If you can alter the game code to use these slots as peaceful creatures, like Memau, and load skins and animations for them, you should be able to bring these animals into the game with script the same way as any other peep.

It's a tough project, but you've got all our support if you want to go ahead.

Good luck!

Jim & Gim the Turakken
17th Jan 2003, 02:37
Thank you very much for the support :), (ive always wanted a zoo :D )Ive just looked
into the moods in00.ini file in mission00 and ive been tweaking some of the
vermin,spawn and memau attributes for keeping them on the bio deck, thought id also
make em talk to each other too, ive set the values high so they STAY there.

I also found 3 new aliens, the goma, goulifor and the haerocan? any way, heres the editing
ive done to the moods and the animal characters

==============================================
MCWP_SPAWN: (One-off hit at start) How peeps are affected talking to a SPAWN

fun
500 (vermin)
500 (Memau)
700 (Spawn)
==============================================
MCWP_VERMIN: (One-off hit at start) How peeps are affected talking to a VERMIN

fun
300 (vermin)
300 (Memau)
200 (Spawn)
==============================================
MCWP_MEMAU: (One-off hit at start) How peeps are affected talking to a MEMAU
fun
300 (vermin)
400 (Memau)
200 (Spawn)

==============================================
MOOD_BIOROMP_COLD_DRY: One-off hit you get after you do a unit of 'chilling out'
on certain bio landscape type

fun
10000 (vermin)
5000 (Memau)
7000 (Spawn)
==============================================
MOOD_BIOROMP_COLD_MED: One-off hit you get after you do a unit of 'chilling out'
on certain bio landscape type

fun
10000 (vermin)
10000 (Memau)
10000 (Spawn)
==============================================
MOOD_BIOROMP_COLD_WET: One-off hit you get after you do a unit of 'chilling out'
on certain bio landscape type

fun
10000 (vermin)
5000 (Memau)
10000 (Spawn)
==============================================
MOOD_BIOROMP_HOT_DRY: One-off hit you get after you do a unit of 'chilling out'
on certain bio landscape type

fun
5000 (vermin)
5000 (Memau)
2000 (Spawn)
==============================================
MOOD_BIOROMP_HOT_MED: One-off hit you get after you do a unit of 'chilling out'
on certain bio landscape type

fun
5000 (vermin)
5000 (Memau)
2000 (Spawn)
==============================================
MOOD_BIOROMP_HOT_WET: One-off hit you get after you do a unit of 'chilling out'
on certain bio landscape type

fun
7000 (vermin)
3000 (Memau)
4000 (Spawn)
==============================================
MOOD_BIOROMP_MOD_DRY: One-off hit you get after you do a unit of 'chilling out'
on certain bio landscape type

fun
10000 (vermin)
10000 (Memau)
10000 (Spawn)
==============================================
MOOD_BIOROMP_MOD_MED: One-off hit you get after you do a unit of 'chilling out'
on certain bio landscape type

fun
10000 (vermin)
10000 (Memau)
10000 (Spawn)
==============================================
MOOD_BIOROMP_MOD_WET: One-off hit you get after you do a unit of 'chilling out'
on certain bio landscape type

fun
7000 (vermin)
10000 (Memau)
10000 (Spawn)
==============================================

MOOD_BIOROMP_WATER: One-off hit you get after you do a unit of 'chilling out'
on certain bio landscape type

fun
1000 (vermin)
5000 (Memau)
10000 (Spawn)
==============================================

it doesnt look like the mood.ini because i had to shorten it, didnt have enough room
on the message box

Ive still got to find out a way to make the spawn friendly ill try that debug
that you mentiond hand-e-food, the creatures really do stay on the biodeck.
But 1 problem, with the skrasher it only moves a little bit, stops, and moves again
a little bit so I set the value a little lower, he moves a lot further but his
attack range is bigger (the range where it decides to attack) but that wont be a problem
when i make it peaceful, the vermin and the memau are fine, they stay even though theres
a threat so im still trying to find a way to at least limit the aggression.

speaking of threat, i thought i saw a line about the threat that peeps pose to other
peeps, ill search for it and see what i can dig up for the skrasher.

************************************************

That DEBUGINFO code doesnt work, ive tried it in other ways aswell but it still doesnt show anything :confused:

DMA57361
17th Jan 2003, 17:58
Using debug cheat / thing:

- Hold Down the F11 key.
- Type the following, no quotes "SCRIPTINFO"
- Release F11.

Pressing the right Shift and Tab together moves forward thou the pages, the left Shift and Tab moves backwards. Very useful stuff in there, including warnings on parse errors, variable values, counts of items, etc.

Sunrise
17th Jan 2003, 22:27
Welcome. It's always good to have new members and i think the idea would be brilliant and will look into myself. I give you my full support.

Jim & Gim the Turakken
18th Jan 2003, 10:50
Thanks for the support sunrise, im glad that people do think its a good idea, and DMA, that debug thing does work now :D , very interesting stuff, might be able to do more here than what I thought....... >=)

***************************************************

About that debug, are you able to edit the specs from there?, or do you have to go into the objects/aliens file and edit from there,

(i understand the code, quite simple, uses the
1 = yes/on, 2 = no/off)

If someone could please help me on this :confused:

Oh and im trying to find some good skins (close to what i described) If any one knows a website please tell me, it'll make my work much easier instead of making a whole skin from scratch myself

*Ive checked startopia post, but there was nothing, the memau seemed interesting so I might choose that, this might not be of the same subject, but I noticed these flags that Deadhead "supposedly" made, I think he was a member here, anyway those flags are actually from another game called Emperor: Battle for June the big flags are house Atreides, Harkonnen and Ordos, the subs are the Fremen, Sadukaa (the gold lion head), The guild, Ix and the Tielaxu, if you dont believe me, check for yourself ;)

DMA57361
18th Jan 2003, 15:35
Sorry, the scriptinfo pages are read-only. :(


(i understand the code, quite simple, uses the
1 = yes/on, 2 = no/off)

Um. What context? Normally it's 0 = FALSE, 1 = TRUE. (or OFF/ON, YES/NO, etc). Which bit are you reading this from?

EDIT:
Ahhhhhhh! You mean in the questions you can throw at the player! Doh! Just clicked. :)

If you haven't already, get the mod guide on the Muckyfoot site. It lists all the commands. Useful.

Btw, if it IS the questions:
1 = Yes
2 = No
-1 = Player ignored it, disappeared before answer given

Jim & Gim the Turakken
18th Jan 2003, 17:17
I forgot to tell you'se that ive been working on a map for quite a while before I even became a member here, but I couldn't figure out some of the script lines involved, so i joined, heres a chunk from my mish.txt file, as you can see it should carry out the lines properely, but I ran into a problem for example:

the "placeportable scutter_crate 1 1 sub_deck 0 3" (wich is place a portable scuzzer crate, containing a scuzzer mk3 with the position and such)

now the bit im having problems with is how you type out say if you wanted a memau in it, or a vermin

placeportable scutter_crate 1 1 sub_deck 0 3
placeportable scutter_crate 1 2 sub_deck 0 3
placeportable scutter_crate 1 3 sub_deck 0 3
placeportable scutter_crate 1 4 sub_deck 0 3
placeportable scutter_crate 1 5 sub_deck 0 3
placeportable scutter_crate 1 6 sub_deck 0 3
placeportable hard_plan_crate 1 7 sub_deck 500 collector
placeportable hard_plan_crate 1 8 sub_deck 200 cargo_bay
placeportable hard_plan_crate 1 9 sub_deck 300 berth
placeportable hard_plan_crate 1 10 sub_deck 400 lavatron
placeportable hard_plan_crate 1 11 sub_deck 100 vendor
placeportable hard_plan_crate 1 12 sub_deck 600 charger
disable
end

:EC built
if
collector_count > 1
then
addenergy 9999999
set alpha 1
disable
end

:Cargo bay built
if cargo_bay_count > 1
then
place portable scutter_crate 1 1 (need script)

============================================
the Mod guide did help but It doesn't have anything about this
============================================

ive already completed the build changers ini, well really i just ripped one off a level, im not gonna waste my time typing out all these script commands and their values when I can just take another and tweak it a bit :rolleyes: , when this map is complete and Ill have all the bug or stuffups reported in (val in level will provide details ;) ) Then ill finish the class changers included with this beta towards the v1.0 map, fix any problems in the mish & buildchangers, maybe put in an arona.scv trader file and well... you've got your self a map :D with that out of the way, i can start work on the skins and import it into the game using the ddt - tga conv and the ssm with MAX3d. after that, well...uhh, could always crack out a bottle of wine :D

DMA57361
18th Jan 2003, 22:21
Your after a memau inna crate?

In the mod guide


Place_portable <portable_type> <x y> <deck> <angle> <sub_type>

BLAH BLAH BLAH

Examples:
place_portable food_crate 15 19 sub_deck 1024
place_portable technology 15 19 mid_deck 512 @laboratory
place_portable hard_plan_crate 26 30 sub_deck 16 recycler


<sub_type> is what you need here! Right. *scrolls to the appendix in the mod guide* here we go.

In the mod guide


APPENDIX:

Peep Types:
Scutter 1
Wheel_scutter 2
Hover_scutter 3
Police_scutter 4
salt_hog 5
<and so on>
memau 20


See. It's all in the guide, you just have to look hard for it. :) (PS: Those numbers corrispond to the order in the mood changer files)

So try:
place portable scutter_crate 4 5 sub_deck 0 20
EDIT:
This will work too by the way:
place portable scutter_crate 4 5 sub_deck 0 memau
Just make sure the name matchs that in the mood file / appendix


The 4 and 5 are the X Y on the deck, can't remember the limits but I think they're 16 and 8, dunno which is which. Then pick sub_deck, mid_deck or bio_deck. Ta da! Instant memau in a crate. :D Instant skrasher too, just open, add litter and hand to unsuspecting peep.

Jim & Gim the Turakken
19th Jan 2003, 02:11
hehe, i like the sound of that, ill remember to look harder too ;)

============================================

By the way, ive just finished the mish.txt file! (after 4 straight hours into midnight and 4 coffee's) so ive been testing it just this afternoon and ive ran into quite a few problems, but ive tackled most of em except 1 that im having a lot of trouble with.

With the help of the scriptinfo debug it had identfied a problem and its location but i cant solve it, it kept repeating this:

Expected control or keyword, on probably variable place
Failure during line 2 of then, of :Intro400
Problem in script element 4

Ive found it but i cant figure it out, heres the text in my script

;Animals******************************************
:intro400
if
collector_count = 1
then
set speechcount 4 after say "Here are the animals, shape your biodeck into a suitable place, if you want, you might want to store the animals for now, and get your karmaramas to plant some trees and such before you unpack the crates"
place portable scutter_crate 3 1 sub_deck 0 20 < line 2
place portable scutter_crate 3 2 sub_deck 0 20
place portable scutter_crate 3 3 sub_deck 0 20
place portable scutter_crate 3 4 sub_deck 0 20
place portable scutter_crate 3 5 sub_deck 0 20
place portable scutter_crate 3 6 sub_deck 0 20
place portable scutter_crate 3 7 sub_deck 0 20
place portable scutter_crate 3 8 sub_deck 0 20
place portable scutter_crate 4 1 sub_deck 0 20
place portable scutter_crate 4 2 sub_deck 0 20
place portable scutter_crate 4 3 sub_deck 0 21
place portable scutter_crate 4 4 sub_deck 0 21
place portable scutter_crate 4 5 sub_deck 0 21
place portable scutter_crate 4 6 sub_deck 0 21
place portable scutter_crate 4 7 sub_deck 0 21
place portable scutter_crate 4 8 sub_deck 0 19
place portable scutter_crate 5 1 sub_deck 0 19
place portable scutter_crate 5 2 sub_deck 0 19
place portable scutter_crate 5 3 sub_deck 0 19
place portable scutter_crate 5 4 sub_deck 0 19
place portable scutter_crate 5 5 sub_deck 0 19
place portable scutter_crate 5 6 sub_deck 0 19
place portable scutter_crate 5 7 sub_deck 0 19
place portable scutter_crate 5 8 sub_deck 0 19
place portable scutter_crate 6 1 sub_deck 0 19
place portable scutter_crate 6 2 sub_deck 0 19
place portable scutter_crate 6 3 sub_deck 0 19
place portable scutter_crate 6 4 sub_deck 0 19
place portable scutter_crate 6 5 sub_deck 0 19
place portable scutter_crate 6 6 sub_deck 0 19
disable
end

ive marked line 2, unfortunently its the start of the crate arrival list, wich probably means all of them are faulty still, if someone can help me out on this one, please tell me :) , i also marked the scutter crates like you said DMA
eg: 21 = spawn, 20 = memau, 19 = vermin

============================================

Im still "trying" to find skins but i cant find much, if any at that

Hand-E-Food
19th Jan 2003, 06:18
Sorry about geting the SCRIPTINFO featuire wrong. I really need a copy of the manual at work so I can answer questions properly.

Commands are all one word.
Place Portable should be PlacePortable. I think it has an underscore in the manual, but that's an typo. It's personal preference, but code can be easier to read if you use the names rather than the code numbers (ie. Memau instead of 20) and can help prevent mistakes.

Also, regarding Incoming messages, the responses are 2 for Yes and 1 for No. Yes and No are also preset constants. I tend to use this code:

:Message
If
<Trigger conditions>
Then
Set Response 3
Incoming Respond Response "So, do you wanna?"
Disable
End

:MessageYes
If
Response = Yes
Then
Set Response 4
Yes code here...
End

:MessageNo
If
Response < Yes
Then
Set Response 4
No/ignored code here...
End

Jim & Gim the Turakken
19th Jan 2003, 10:51
So instead i just type:

placeportable_scutter_crate 5 3 sub_deck 0 memau ?

and with the skrasher, because its code name is spawn do i just do the same thing eh?, cause normally i prefer the numbers :rolleyes:

oh, and good news too, ive made a new arona.csv and ive got my 3dsMAX back, finnaly, so ill start that skinning >=D

=============================================

If anyone has found out a easy way to modify the agression behaviour of the skrasher please tell me so i can include it, im still searching for a way (the more help the better ;) ), because once my beta map's finished, you can be my beta testers if you want :D

=============================================
:mad: If its not one problem its another :mad:

With the skinning, apparently my version of microsoft paint is a bit stuffed up, it still works but its only formats are the bmp's, I installed this 4Dpaint program off the 3dsmax cd, but that cant read tga's either, ive done the ddsconv process and ive got one file ready for skinning, problem is, I cant open it :( , because the format aint available, if anyone at all knows about gettin updated formats or something like that I'd be happy...Very happy :D

DMA57361
19th Jan 2003, 13:57
Originally posted by Jim & Gim the Turakken
So instead i just type:

placeportable_scutter_crate 5 3 sub_deck 0 memau ?

and with the skrasher, because its code name is spawn do i just do the same thing eh?, cause normally i prefer the numbers :rolleyes:

... apparently my version of microsoft paint is a bit stuffed up, it still works but its only formats are the bmp's, ...

1 - No. You can use numbers. Check the appendix in the mod guide. Same order as in the mood files. IE the first thing in the mood files "Scutter" is 1. The second 2.

2 - Yes, you could use the code name "spawn". Or, look in the mood file, it's the 21st in the list, that makes it no 21. :)

3 - placeportable_scutter_crate is wrong. placeportable scutter_crate is right. :) Too many underscores. ;)

4 - MS Paint should only open BMP's. It's not designed to do more. (Note you can open and save JPG/JPEG and one or two others, but they aren't listed by the program.)

5 - Change "Sub_deck" to "Bio_deck" and they will appear on the bio deck straight away. I think you'll find if you don't they'll stay on the deck they appear on, not sure thou.

Jim & Gim the Turakken
20th Jan 2003, 03:26
hmm, yes, that could work good idea!

im too use to doing the underscore, its where most of my problems had arisen :(

============================================

Ive tried that idea of yours DMA, but i cant really make sure...

ive noticed that they do stay a lot longer, I waited for about an hour wich is the longest i could get, but because of the surrounding peeps and memaus, the skrashers attack then the peeps retreat to the lower deck and the skrashers follow em so, till i get the problem of aggresion fixed...

============================================

And through my tests of the animals, i realized that, well...we need some sort of a cycle, because the skrashers turn into more memau's, what turns into skrashers (i know that peeps do) but well need some other alien that well, can 'Breed' more skrashers, say, if muckyfoot can see this, would one of your developers still have another peep (that wasnt inlcuded) but still is able to be intergrated into the game... like the goma, goulifor or the haerocan. Or maybe i can use one of the existing plants, um, its like a big grey cactus and it grows on dry-cold terrain, hmm, maybe use that to spawn skrashers ill see what i can do with what ive got but i cant promise much

Hand-E-Food
20th Jan 2003, 05:52
You can stop Skrashers from spawning by changing the setting in Build Changers in.txt. Set the Memau trigger level (I can't remember the exact name) to some obscene number (65000 should do the trick).

Jim & Gim the Turakken
20th Jan 2003, 07:52
ah, thanks, that did the trick

by the way, I've just finished my very first skin, for the skrasher, check it out at startopia post, its not the best thing on the block but it'll do for now :)

( eheh, if its not on there yet then the admin of the site still probably has to post it there :rolleyes: )

Hand-E-Food
21st Jan 2003, 01:41
I heard a rumour that the admin of StarTopia Post (AlphaOmega) has gone AWOL for the next two years. You may want to put it elsewhere as well.

Jim & Gim the Turakken
21st Jan 2003, 12:46
awol? :eek:

but, the last post was like 6 days ago?
well, do you know any other "skin" sites, so i can post it there?

DMA57361
21st Jan 2003, 16:01
I know what AWOL essencially means.

But what does AWOL stand for? What do the letters mean?

kool_kats_rule
21st Jan 2003, 19:07
I think it's Away Without O???? Leave, or something like that.

Hand-E-Food
22nd Jan 2003, 01:49
Away WithOut Leave

It's just a rumour I heard. I think it was somewhere in the Community Chat area.

Hand-E-Food
22nd Jan 2003, 02:00
And whilst I won't deny the rumour, I will deny it's accuracy. AlphaOmega has returned to the StarTopia Post, and it looks like he'll be hanging around for a while...

Jim & Gim the Turakken
22nd Jan 2003, 11:55
School's coming up, VERY soon, like, next week, so i wont be able to work on this project as much any more :( BUT ill still go on with it, even though im gonna get annoying homework, if theres any time to spare, then ill take it and start working, so far ive been testing the map and making a class.txt but I just cant find anything that is near to takin off the hostility from the skrasher. theres a bunch of files in the main directory that are all coded ie:

4363267.324

but i doubt they'll have anything that i can edit :(

AlphaOmega
25th Jan 2003, 21:35
HEY! I am not AWOL!

Don't listen to rumors you silly people.

Please, anything you finish (or even semi-finish) send the post. Next update for the post is tonight, and then after that theres one next week. Don't lose faith so quickly StarTopians!

Edit: And by the way, those are some AWSOME ideas you've got cooking there. Keep up the good work!

Overmind
18th Feb 2003, 10:21
I'll second that. But make sure you get enough sleep- Startopia is recreation, great fun, but school will define your future. What I'm saying is, play hard, but work harder. I've known those who didn't, and boy, did they regret it...

MunkeeChum
19th Feb 2003, 11:01
Originally posted by Hand-E-Food
I heard a rumour that the admin of StarTopia Post (AlphaOmega) has gone AWOL for the next two years. You may want to put it elsewhere as well.

Nononono. Creamy_Goodness has gone AWOL. Sad really.....

Jim & Gim the Turakken
17th Apr 2003, 16:47
:eek: HHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP:eek:

i cant.. cant, i.... cant cope with the work i get....... BUT, i have been looking through the damn startopia folder looking for ANYTHING for the past 6 MONTHS and i have found nothing but encoded files that I do not understand and have not found any help - although i have tried creating some new files were if you go into the mission the Behaviour of the Skrasher will be set to atleast minimal, so far, ive been getting too many Death messages up on the bio deck, ive been trying from whatever scrap of time i get, sometimes i think "ah stuff it, its no use" but then i also feel guilty about getting some people hyped up about this, and turns out to be a flaw letting others around me down...

I honestly don't know where to go beyond this point, i've searched everywhere inside the file from what i can understand, there's more to it, but from what i know, i can't do much...

therefore i am sorry if i have hurt anyone :(

Master_Ryan
19th Apr 2003, 16:25
Yup, my projects failed horribly too! but i didn't hype them because i knew they would. as they usually do

Sunrise
20th Apr 2003, 05:33
do you know what file is the behaviou of the skrasher?

Jim & Gim the Turakken
20th Apr 2003, 14:47
Sunrise, i wish i did know, the only place you might be able to edit the attributes of a character like the skrasher, is creating a new map with those modified attributes, but uh, ive yet to find out how or what command script to use

Hand-E-Food
21st Apr 2003, 23:00
I think behaviour is part of the code, not a separate file. The most you can do is change the damage it does and affect its moods.

Misterymon
1st May 2003, 02:35
Dude your idea is awesome you have got my full support I really havnt seen anything nearly this amazing sense the longer lasting juicy fruit car door!:D