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rajput_warrior
30th Oct 2002, 15:15
The racist nature of this video game is unheard of. The violence depicted towards sikhs cannot be allowed to continue. I, and the support of thousand of others, including huge organzition all over the world, are protesting this game and would like it off the market.
For more information, please click here.

http://www.sikhnet.com/s/Hitman2VideoCampaign

The name of the terroist group, CULT GURDWARA is also very extreme, because in our culture, GURDWARA means church. Please, we are looking for all of the support we can regarding this issue.
If you have any questions, please contact me at rajput_warrior@hotmail.com

Veron20
30th Oct 2002, 19:02
How about we start a petition against you and your religion,because I don agree with it.Its no different than what you are doing,so ****ing mind your own buisness.
These people are way of base and I really wish they would take this petition and shove or I'd do it for them as after playing Hitman2 for some time now I might just Fiberwire one of them.How silly I dont even kill a fly in my home I try to let them out.
Furthermore, do you know how many millions of times whites have been in games, and charachterized as bad?? I mean, give me a ****ing break, you only inspire hatred of yourselves by this kind of foolish idiocy.

And did you know that Juan Veron isn't a negro at all, even tough it says so in FIFA02. If someone called that racism, no one would react at all. It's just your kind of people that aint got no better to do than find anything that you "define" as racism.

Mike_B
30th Oct 2002, 20:13
I have only one thing to say:


IT'S A GAME!

rajput_warrior
31st Oct 2002, 02:37
What does the manchester united midfielder have to do anything, i am talking about a sensitive issues in the world today, racism and prejedice. The way this is blowing up in the media, chances are getting higher that this game may be eventually off the market, miniority groups, not just including sikh religious groups, are fighting just to get this game off the market. Here is a list of non-sikh organiztions who have joined the cause;


Anti-Racist-Action Montreal, Montreal, Canada
Iota Nu Delta Fraternity, Inc., New York
Islamic School of Seattle, Seattle, WA
National Council of Hindu Temples (UK)
Hate Free Zone Campaign of Washington, WA
Asian Pacific Islander Coalition (APIC)
Arab American Institute
Chinese Information and Service Center
Delta Epsilon Sigma Iota Fraternity, Inc.
Amnesty International
Human Rights Watch
American Civil Liberties Union
The Anti-Nazi League
The Dalit Voice
Dalit Solidarity Forum
National Campaign on Dalit Human Rights
Ambedkar Center for Justice and Peace

capdjq
31st Oct 2002, 02:48
Every game has to have a villain. I live in Vancouver, canada. the militant and moderate Sikhs are the biggest troublemakers in the Community. You guys can't agree with yourselves. evertime there's a vote an entire police force has to come out to prevent a riot amongst yourselves. Christ, when you immigrate, leave your problems in the country of origin.

BTW I'm from India. :)

Zaphod
31st Oct 2002, 16:17
ITEM: This might be a worthwhile discussion, but keep your arguments about the discussion itself. No more personal attacks. Green?

Firstly, @m's right. It's only a game. Now, that said, if we were discussing a new game put out by the Ku Klux Klan called "White Power," then this might be a discussion worth having. But, I'm not sure where in this game you think sikhs are being unfairly portrayed. This game doesn't go out of its way to insult Sikhs. There are several Sikhs who have contracts out on their lives. And so someone hires a hitman to kill them. How this is racist is beyond me. They aren't singled out BECAUSE they're sikhs, they're singled out because they're Bad Men. As is EVERY OTHER TARGET IN THE GAME.

Should we also be outraged for Malaysians, given that Our Boy has to kill Charlie and... er... Charlie's Brother?

How about Russians? We're supposed to kill a high-ranking Russian general. Should Russians be outraged?

How about mafia dons? Should they be taking the streets, decrying how this game portrays La Cosa Nostra in a bad light?

I mean, come on. Omerta, for cryin' out loud.

Lake
31st Oct 2002, 16:27
Welcome to club of every other religion/race/culture in the world that has been portayed as villians. What makes Sikhs so special? For now on, all games should have Nazis so no one gets their feelings hurt.

Catman
31st Oct 2002, 16:45
Or people taken over by the Many -- I expect few people would find killing those folks offensive.

Xcom
31st Oct 2002, 16:56
Originally posted by Zaphod
How about Russians? We're supposed to kill a high-ranking Russian general. Should Russians be outraged?

Good point. I think I am gonna sue EIDOS. While I am at it, I am gonna sue Hollywood (and make them ban all 24992 movies where Russians are the bad guys).

Ohhh...ROFLMAO.

:D

Catman
31st Oct 2002, 17:17
I find it odd that when offended, so many people jump on the "let's ban the game/book" bandwagon rather than starting a dialogue with the publishers and players/readers. This approach invariably creates a double no-win situation, whereas dialogue at least has the potential of educating and informing.

Zaphod
31st Oct 2002, 17:30
Originally posted by Xcom
I am gonna... make them ban all 24992 movies where Russians are the bad guys.But dude... you ARE bad guys! I mean, listen to those accents! They sound so EEEEEEVIL!

VE MUST DEVEAT MOOSE AND SQUIRREL!

Xcom
31st Oct 2002, 17:38
Originally posted by Zaphod
But dude... you ARE bad guys! I mean, listen to those accents! They sound so EEEEEEVIL!

VE MUST DEVEAT MOOSE AND SQUIRREL!

And cartoons too. :mad:

:p

Pulse5
31st Oct 2002, 18:44
Well first off, i only see one vote for the Yes for this poll of urs... Second off, there are many of you wankers...erm... people who hate violence in games. So yes i agree that people under a certain age should NOT play these types of games, but thats why we have ratings and THATS why game retailers do not sell these games to kids, and why parents - who start petitions like this themselves - should not BUY these kind of games to kids.

But should this game be taken off the market because you people are extremly sensitive and look for any little thing in pretty much anything in order to support your cause?.... NO. And it has been mentioned before, that indeed this game portrays several different races in a rather generic form, but have you noticed that YOU are the only ones complaining about this? and no one else seems to really care about it, because, well it is a GAME. And this is NOT the only game, why not protest against the whole game industry? Not that they would listen to you anyway.

I think this community has enough people that would be very willing to back this game - and industry - up if any such thing came up, enough that Eidos wouldnt even have to do much. So i hope your email got flamed enough about this that you would be smart enough not to post it again.

Dar
31st Oct 2002, 23:29
Ok, maybe I'm confused but you talk about peace and racial respect but yet your own religion's website is saying stuff like this:


SikhNet, Sikh Communications Council, Sikh Coalition, SCORE and SMART have developed a joint strategy to put pressure on the retail chain stores, asking them to refuse to sell the game in its current form.

To me, this is not promoting respect or peace, it's like they are planning to go to battle. Has anyone here read the actual petition?


Issue an apology to Sikhs and Dalits worldwide.
Recall all copies of the game from distributors and retailers.
Remove all scenes depicting Sikhs and Gurdwaras immediately from all versions of the game in-stock and from those recalled.
Remove all offensive mention of Dalits as followers of an evil cult leader from all versions of this game.
Remove all references to Dalits, Gurdwaras and Sikhs immediately from all media advertisements, promotions and the content from all web sites owned by Eidos, its partners and its affiliates.

These are the demands , more like extortion, if you ask me.

So if Eidos doesn't comply with your demands, what next? Take them to court? Yeah right, you have a slim-to-none chance of victory and slim just left the building. Boycott the game? Well that's your right. Issue more demands? Hmm I don't recall you all protesting any of the Grand Theft Auto games? Nor the Doom, Quake, Duke Nukem, and many many many other killing games out there. So why now?

rajput_warrior
1st Nov 2002, 00:55
Originally posted by Zaphod
[b]

Should we also be outraged for Malaysians, given that Our Boy has to kill Charlie and... er... Charlie's Brother?

How about Russians? We're supposed to kill a high-ranking Russian general. Should Russians be outraged?

How about mafia dons? Should they be taking the streets, decrying how this game portrays La Cosa Nostra in a bad light?

I mean, come on. Omerta, for cryin' out loud.

but are u killing these poeple in their most holyest place of prayer?

mad_hoosier357
1st Nov 2002, 00:57
Who do you suggest that the game depicts as being bad? There are many evil people from all forms of race and religeon. Come on, get real. Its only a game. I like to idea of sueing Eidos. Having the supream court smash your idea to bits will be a huge boost to the 1st amendment. If you don't know what that is, move back to where you came form.

howie
1st Nov 2002, 01:00
Originally posted by Zaphod
But dude... you ARE bad guys! I mean, listen to those accents! They sound so EEEEEEVIL!

VE MUST DEVEAT MOOSE AND SQUIRREL!

* Advisory: No moose or squirrel have been harmed in this video game. (http://soundamerica.com/sounds/cartoons/Bullwinkle/heyrock2.wav)


rajput_warrior


Anti-Racist-Action Montreal, Montreal, Canada
Iota Nu Delta Fraternity, Inc., New York
Islamic School of Seattle, Seattle, WA
National Council of Hindu Temples (UK)
Hate Free Zone Campaign of Washington, WA
Asian Pacific Islander Coalition (APIC)
Arab American Institute
Chinese Information and Service Center
Delta Epsilon Sigma Iota Fraternity, Inc.
Amnesty International
Human Rights Watch
American Civil Liberties Union
The Anti-Nazi League
The Dalit Voice
Dalit Solidarity Forum
National Campaign on Dalit Human Rights
Ambedkar Center for Justice and Peace

Surprised you didn't mention The Tree Huggers of America on the list too, as I shot a few of them too!

Never heard of most of these outfits but I doubt you can validate your report. If you think this video game is bad... just wait till George Bush sends real life troops over seas to kick Sadom Insanes a*s for real! :D Then you'll really have something to ***** about. *Double..haha!

rajput_warrior
1st Nov 2002, 01:03
first i got that list from here

http://www.sikhcoalition.org/petitioneidos.asp

two... cause we are talking about muslins and iraq rite?

howie
1st Nov 2002, 01:15
rajput_warrior

Your name implies that you yourself are a terrorist and you are attempting to spread disinformation to throw doubt in Americans minds about the anti-terrorist war that the US Goverment is waging against terrorists. The Soviet Russians were not sucksessfull in their efforts and I know you wont be either. If your kinfolk would just stop killing innocent people (9-11-2001 among others) in real life you people would have a lot less problems. Quit picking on Americans and start killing your own kind, like you have in the past, and leave the rest of the world alone and we will leave you alone.

rajput_warrior
1st Nov 2002, 01:18
Originally posted by howie
rajput_warrior

Your name implies that you yourself are a terrorist and you are attempting to spread disinformation to throw doubt in Americans minds about the anti-terrorist war that the US Goverment is waging against terrorists. The Soviet Russians were not sucksessfull in their efforts and I know you wont be either. If your kinfolk would just stop killing innocent people (9-11-2001 among others) in real life you people would have a lot less problems. Quit picking on Americans and start killing your own kind, like you have in the past, and leave the rest of the world alone and we will leave you alone.

my name implies that i am a terroist... u have no idea what my name is or the background behind it, an accusasion like that because of the my name is complete udder prejudice. so according to what u have said, you are blaming all muslims (i am not even muslims) for what happened on 9-11. WOW

howie
1st Nov 2002, 01:28
You are implying that this game is attacking a religion (you don't even belong too). What gives you the right to say something like that ?

rajput_warrior
1st Nov 2002, 01:29
Originally posted by howie
You are implying that this game is attacking a religion (you don't even belong too). What gives you the right to say something like that ?

i am sikh...

howie
1st Nov 2002, 01:48
There is no referance to Sri Guru Granth Sahib in this game at all. None of your churches are in the game. The "hits", if you will, are made on villainous leaders of evil organizations, not religious factions. Your information is misguided. Terrorists spread disinformation, they do, and they are. Your name says that you are a warrior. What am I suppose to think ? I work in law enforcemet myself but I have no problems with shooting the cops in the game. It's fun! :)

rajput_warrior
1st Nov 2002, 01:59
if u read what the hitman 2 site says about this level, you will clealry see waht i mean...

and also rajput's where the sikh poeple who help fought the moglols hundreds of years ago

Zaphod
1st Nov 2002, 02:07
Rajput - I'm not familiar enough with Sikh tradition. Could you tell me which mission has 47 making a hit in a church/mosque or holy/prayer ritual? I'm genuinely curious. I've played through all of the relevant missions (I think), and I can't figure out which one(s) you're referring to.

Also, a general statement: This is a game. This is not real life. If this thread degenerates for one second into a discussion of terrorists, or "Islamic extremists," or September 11th, or military action against Iraq or Afganistan, or US troops stationed in Mecca or Medina... there'll be trouble. It's very interesting to talk about this (at least, I find it an interesting topic), and probably one worth discussing in the context of this game. Let's keep it that way. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

rajput_warrior
1st Nov 2002, 02:08
i beleive its called temple something...

Zaphod
1st Nov 2002, 02:14
"Temple City Ambush"? Is that it? That's the one, if I remember correctly, where you meet the CIA agent in a carpet store and then have to dispose of two assassins in the market square, then simply make it to the exit alive. I'm... I'm not sure what's objectionable there. If that isn't the mission you're referring to, which one is it? If you don't know the name, maybe you could simply describe the mission a little bit.

rajput_warrior
1st Nov 2002, 02:18
you go in a church... i inustalled and the threw away the disk a wahile ago in protest, ur in a church and there a men white blacks suits and blood red turbans on

howie
1st Nov 2002, 02:28
Thats not a church, it's a hospital. I don't know how you mistook it for a church -- unless the people in your church all carry guns! :eek: Church of the AK-47, uzi, 9mm...etc...HOLY MACKERAL!

Zaphod
1st Nov 2002, 02:35
Yeah, I think Howie might be right. There's 1 of 2 missions you could be referring to: "Death of Hannalore" and "Terminal Hospitality." The building in the first mission isn't a church, it's a health spa / doctor's office. The building in the second mission isn't a church either, it's a hospital. I honestly can't think of any times you have a make a hit on someone in a religious structure of any kind. There IS a temple in both the motorcade mission and in Terminal Hospitality, but they're both very peripheral and don't factor into the story in any way.

rajput_warrior
1st Nov 2002, 02:42
http://www.sikhnet.com/s/Hitman2VideoCampaign

go there to find some pics of what i mean and updated inof of whats going on

and thats also the point.. there is violence and killing of sikhs in the church

Zaphod
1st Nov 2002, 02:57
Those images from the site you referenced are, in fact, from "Terminal Hospitality. That building is a hospital, and it makes that VERY clear in the game's briefings.

Please keep in mind that the game starts off with a Catholic priest being beaten and kidnapped in his own church, in the middle of his duties, but there have been no Catholic protests.

Sikhs are NOT being singled out. They really, really aren't.

Stile451
1st Nov 2002, 03:07
Recall all copies of the game from distributors and retailers.
Remove all scenes depicting Sikhs and Gurdwaras immediately from all versions of the game in-stock and from those recalled.
Remove all offensive mention of Dalits as followers of an evil cult leader from all versions of this game.
Remove all references to Dalits, Gurdwaras and Sikhs immediately from all media advertisements, promotions and the content from all web sites owned by Eidos, its partners and its affiliates.

All of these, excepting the change to web sites, would cost EIDOS far too much money. I would give a rough estimate of a few hundred thousand dollars US, more likely in the millions.

Like most companies, they're in business to make money. If your demands are not cost effective they can not be met. You should feel lucky that EIDOS is willing to make the changes in the Game Cube version, and they're only doing that because it's not finished development yet, let alone released as the other versions are.

You can't change a corporations' mind by telling them that they've hurt your feelings. They may make slight concessions, but that is most likely all you will be able to get.

howie
1st Nov 2002, 03:13
Yeah, I'm Catholic and don't have a problem with any of the content in this game. I'm not sure why you think the characters are in a church or have any referance to the sikhs. Is it the color of their turbans or suits or both ? Not to mention the fact that they're all carrying guns.

rajput_warrior
1st Nov 2002, 03:22
wow.. not many catholics know stuff about sikhism

Stile451
1st Nov 2002, 03:25
Originally posted by rajput_warrior
wow.. not many catholics know stuff about sikhism

I thought generalizations like that are part of what you are protesting against.

Zaphod
1st Nov 2002, 03:25
That's probably true. Perhaps you could TELL US SPECIFICALLY WHAT THE OBJECTIONS TO THE GAME ARE, and then we'd know more about it...

howie
1st Nov 2002, 04:14
Originally posted by rajput_warrior
wow.. not many catholics know stuff about sikhism

The Catholic Church (Church Universal) embraces most all religions so I know about most of them. [Not to switch this too a religious topic] And NO, I'm not a spokesman for the church. I just read up on religious beliefs and philosophies when I was in college. Just don't get me started on Zen --> now that guy knows how to party. :D

The Captain
1st Nov 2002, 04:21
The Captain must speak!


and thats also the point.. there is violence and killing of sikhs in the churchDidn't we already establish that Sikhs were NOT being killed in a church? If you're going to claim that it's resemblence is so striking to that of a Sikh church, why aren't large gun manufatures such as Berretta, or Colt demanding Eidos pay licensing fees for simply using the likeness of their weapons such as the Barretta 92FS hand gun, or the Colt 1911, or M4A1 carbine? Sorry RW, you don't mind if I call you RW, because I preffer to be called 'THE CAPTAIN', but if big business can put things aside a little and let people have their fun, EVEN THOUGH, their products are being used in voilent, horrible, criminal ways, which could very well reflect badly upon their products...

How about gun enthusiasts? Why don't they start picketing because the fire arms are being used in such a manner as it premotes negative feedback from the rest of the community. Depicting gun owners as frightening, voilent individuals... who kill Sikhs. :rolleyes:

I know we're not supposed to take things to a personal level, but I have to ask RW, why are you choosing to ignore how a Catholic Preist could be assaulted on church grounds, yet still claim that it's more horrible when it happens to Sikhs? Better yet. How can you claim you're ethnic group is being singled out and placed in a bad light when Italians are faced with once again another case of being the suppliers of the mafia. Oh, wait a minute. Wasn't there a church in Kivoc Park Meeting? I think there was, and you could actually do your horrible shooting from within. Look out, I can see another batch of religious zealots who have had their feelings hurt, out to put creative license to rest.

You've got your apology. Have you ignored that "No offence was intended by the developers or the publishers and both parties have taken considered steps to help rectify the situation.No offence was intended by the developers or the publishers and both parties have taken considered steps to help rectify the situation." Oh, right. I remember. This has got to be some outragous conspiricy to cast poor image upon the Sikh community around the globe. The flames of genocide are kindling as we speak! Action must be taken before the ideas in Hitman 2 - Silent Assassin, can further contaminate more people's minds! :rolleyes:

Do I sound condisending? I sure hope so, because it's intentional. This is the most enjoyable game I've played in quite some time. For someone to claim that artistic license used is offencive and demand it be snubbed out, makes me rather irritable. People have been gaming for a few decades now on a computerized format. They've been slandering, cheating and killing eachother for longer. I was upset that Eidos didn't go ahead and get license for the weaponry name, because it's part of the atmosphere. What you're preposing with this petition, isn't just the removal of the objectionable material concerning the Sikh community, but the material concerning ALL ethnic groups, and communities. Our first mission, Anthama, would now no longer be to the Italian Mafia boss... and it won't happen in Sicily. In fact, no one will know where it happens. All persons depicticed in said mission are now purple, green, and yellow striped SQUARES, as to ensure that the likeness of the models are not to be confused with any ethnic group or race. They will bear no further markings or designs to further distinguish them apart, as objects carried by our squares could be construde as religious symboles which in some way or another bear resemblence to that of a now ficticious belief structure which was only developed for the sake of tax evassion in the US.

RW, I can see what merit there is in this petition, as well as what this petition is trying to accomplish, however, no one is getting the idea of going out and committing hate crimes upon members of the Sikh community. No one is deciding the Sikh are bad people, just as the Italians aren't evil because a family is displayed as being affiliated with the Mafia. You're not preventing bigotry. You're killing art, and creativity. You're preventing the expanssion and development of modern culture. I find that more offensive, and harmful than if my very face were slapped on a model of a bad guy in this game, and that I was clearly stated to be an Evil Person. You think The Captain would like to hear that coming form his PC speakers? "The Captain is an evil person! You must eliminate him 47!" NO! The Captain would not like to hear that. He'd like to hear, "47 is an evil person! You much eliminate him The Captain!"

Truth is, it's not going to happen, and just as The Captain was not clearly and intentionally demonized in Hitman 2 - Silent Assassin, neither are the Sikhs. It's not intentional. Suck up your pride and carry on. Everyone gets their faces rubbed in the dirt sometimes at the expence of creative license. If you've got a mirror around however, take a look. It's not real dirt. You don't even need to wash.

Lastly (yes, I am going to stop :p) the thread title, "Unacceptable". That's fine. I can understand if YOU don't want to accept this. No one is making you play this game. You don't have to, but don't tell ME what the **** is acceptable. I'll decide that for myself. Just as Eidos gave you the opportunity to decide whether this game was acceptable to you or not. You played it, and thus determined, that no, it wasn't. I on the other hand, find things to be mostly enjoyable. Not only because I get to kill Sikhs, but because the overall product, is one of the most enjoyable I've encountered. I'll decide where or not I want to play the role of a hitman in a ficticious world. Not you, or any one who agrees with you. You're given the liberty to decide, leave us with our's.

Stile451
1st Nov 2002, 04:35
Originally posted by The Captain
Evil Person

I'm sorry, but shouldn't that be "Evil Person<SUP><SMALL>TM</SMALL></SUP>" :p

The Captain
1st Nov 2002, 04:42
Oh ****, you're right man! DAMN IT!! Now I'm gonna get sued! If it isn't someone getting offended, it's big business. I tell ya, there's just no way for a guy to win.

Muslim Shooter
1st Nov 2002, 07:26
Buh-bye, "Muslim Shooter."
- The Management

mad_hoosier357
1st Nov 2002, 07:44
I think that last one was going a little too far. The Captain is right in his post; the whole thing. If you don't like a product, take it back and exchange it for something you will like. No harm was intended. I actually took the time to check out the web page that was posted and found no pictures of and kind of church or mosk (spelling error?). The images could quite easily be changed to to Villa in Italy or a castle in Germany or my house(!). I appeciate the attempt to make the world a better place for everyone, but creativity should not be hindered to avoid the bruising of a few (as in 1000 or so) peoples pride. Eidos should not have to give into any kind of demand for the game to be changed. Its their right as a corporation to make and produce what ever they want. Maybe they will quit selling the game in the middle of your religeous area. Or you can put up the money for a more religeous friendly version then buy all the copies you want. Or maybe someone will produce a mod that targets your religious beliefs just to make a point. There needs to be some kind of helf way point. Everyone is so hard nosed about everything. Yes 9-11 was commited by arabs, but does that make all arabs bad? I think no, you may think yes. But thats and opinion and do I ask for all arabs to be converted into white guys or black guys or aliens? No. What about all the other shooter style games? Any problems with those? I am thinking not.


Read this http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/All+by+Date/05FFAE839ABC4DE387256C58007ED834?OpenDocument

corseque
1st Nov 2002, 08:24
A question for rajput_warrior: Did you actually play the missions you're referring to?

The Captain
1st Nov 2002, 11:17
It's official. I hate these forums. :mad: Oh well, an hour spent, a lesson learned... *sigh*

Any way. I guess I'll try and be more concise this time.


I appeciate the attempt to make the world a better place for everyone, but creativity should not be hindered to avoid the bruising of a few peoples pride.

Leave it up to someone from Indiana to say everything I try to in one sentance. I should feel ashamed. :D

And yes, corseque, he did...

you go in a church... i inustalled and the threw away the disk a wahile ago in protest

Which takes me to my next point, though for the sake of time, I'm going to be a bit presumtuous, so tell me if I'm at any point wrong.

I'm betting you didn't buy this game because you were ernestly interested in another stealth/action computer game, did you RW? Chances are, you had heard about, and read this petition, becaming upset that it could happen, particularly in one of your more favorite hobbies? So you got a copy to see what was going on. Well, if I am (mostly) right to this point, I've got to commend you for at least attemtping to see things for yourself and even trying to play through them, but you didn't bother to finish. You were told it wasn't this holy place that you had said it was. It was either a hospital, or a health spa. Now maybe the latter has something to do with the religion, I'm unsure. :-/

Any way, even if it were, because you mentioned the info came off the hitman 2 web site itself, though there was no mention of it elsewhere, but this is important, because it leads me to my next point.


Hitman 2 is rated Mature and is intended for those over the age of 17.

The game is not being directed toward suggestable youths whom buy into simple, and false ideas like
everywhere in the world where there is a major conflict, it involves ******** It is being aimed toward adults. It'd be one thing if this game contained questionable material were it directed at children, but we're not discussing a Disney movie with more than subtle Nazi propeganda. We're talking about a video game which is intentionally attempting to EMULATE LIFE! Maybe a lot of us don't encounter terrorism, or go take out hits, but does that mean either never happen? No. We're all old enough to understand this. Just as we're all old enough to know just because we don't see such content in a game which is attempting to emulate life, doesn't mean it doesn't happen in real life. Take out the **** stains on the Sikh people from a video game, but the horrible people who are a part of said ethnic group won't disapear. Just as bigotted minds like Muslim_Shooter, are quite possibly of a similar ethnicity to myself. Edit his posts out of the forums, but he won't disapear.

If you don't have ratings for gaming software where you are from, then I can understand your displeasure. However, if that's the case, you're barking up the wrong tree. See your local government, but it's not our responsiblity to see that your children don't get hold of this content. Just as it's not your responibility to tell us what is, or isn't acceptable material for us, as mature adults (mostly).

Any way, I'm going to give you some time to reply back to all this Rajput_Warrior. Just want to say before I leave off, that I DID say "you" a whole lot, but I wasn't always reffering directly to you, so I'm sorry if I sound a bit TOO offensive, though I am trying to get a bit on your edge. :)

I'll ask some questions to help conversation though.
How do you believe this game, though being sold to adults, will adversely effect the Sikh community?

What content, in particular, do you find so objectionable, it demands recall over any other stereotype/ falsity of other ethnic/religious groups, because of creative license?

Do you think, like me, that Muslim_Shooter should be banned from the local Eidos internet community, solely on the principle he is a fool? :D

Removed particular phrase that is quite bothersome and derogitory - Admin

Salem4
1st Nov 2002, 11:43
I think we can conclude that the old warrior clearly lost this discussion.

Muzman
1st Nov 2002, 12:43
Cool! A ruckus!
I'm kinda surprised that Eidos appear to be bending so much on this. Still, the Sikh community probably has a fair bit of clout in ole Blighty.
If I had to guess I'd say the IOI folks were looking for funky locations and came upon this one, thinking they'd use some of the architechture and history etc for a bit of atmosphere.
Reading the supposedly offensive breifings, it's a bit strange. I'd say probably every cliche and tidbit about Indian culture that has leaked to the west is crammed in there. Leaving the Sikhs all hot under the collar over... the architechture and name of the location... and the use of turbans. It's all a bit :o
Well I suppose being vaguely misrepresented isn't particularly nice. But I can't help thinking all this fuss isn't really necessary. I mean, it's not as though Hitman2 is some cultural icon directing the thoughts and fears of the Western world, or the New York Times or something.

Dopey
2nd Nov 2002, 02:04
Does anyone find it strange that he/she is looking for support to take the game off the market..... IN THE OFFICAL BOARD

[PAK]Krwawy Lew
2nd Nov 2002, 03:25
ok here goes, even tho i went back with my game and wanted my money back (won't buy this untill there is a decent patch), i still have to say this.

While playing the game the objective IS to kill the bad guy (terrorist or whoever), so by killing shkikikakakaka you're actually then going just on a regular murder rampage and get minus points in the game (which is not really the point of the game). All mission are done so that you don't have to kill a single innocent person (even if they run around with a loaded gun).
This game should not be taken of off the shelves (i accidently voted for yes :( ) becuase it's still just a game. Like the recent thing i've been reading about GTA3:Vice city, they want to ban (or at least take away the sniper rifle) because of the sheit that happend in DC. And here's a nice quote my cousin said : guns don't kill people, crazy stupid people WITH guns kill people :D.

Like someone here pointed out that in the begging of the game a priest get's beat up and then kidnapped, then why don't you start a petition for that as well? or are you just looking out For Nr.1? and i'm not saying this because i hate muslims or blaming islam for what happend in NY (besides the US has done a lot of crap too but no one had the balls to say anything), but i'm saying this because IT*S A GAME for crying out loud. it's not like the whole point of this game is to kill arabs or muslims or other people of a minority religion.

did i forget to mention that this game was made by danes (who are sort of like swedes when it comes to have an open mind), which means there was no harm intended in creating this game.

so i'm saying this....you can take your petition and stick it where the sun don't shine. Have A Nice day and enjoy your Happy Meal (that comes from that EVIL country USA (sarkasm) )

Gugla
2nd Nov 2002, 06:10
Name is Nav

I am a Sikh as well, fairly well versed in the religion. But abou this petition to put in the simplest of terms.. its a load of crap. You are spreading this petition on the basis that it paints a bad picture about Gurduwaras and other places. Sure the shootings went down in the Gurdwaras etc but mind you guess wher the game starts off from.. it starts off from a Priest gettin kidnapped outside the front doors of a church. Now should the *catholics, chrisitians.. (or whatever relgion that priest belong to) come out in force and start making up petitions becuase the game is offending there relegion. Now about Sikhs.. Every race has bad apples.. and if we look at it from Hitmans point of view... the "hitman" took out the people that were the bad apples. Keep in mind we even though preach and practice equality, fairness and all the good things (which i fully support) , have at the same time blown up planes (1984 Air India Bombing.. those ****ers in jail btw.. hope they burn in ****in hell) and countless other things. Another example is Killling of the PM of India in 1984 for as well (wont go into details of that incident becuase i am still tryin to figure out if it was right or wrong) But the point being... its a bloody game and every game realsed out (not including sports) most of them tend to stereotype someone... but does that mean everyone is takin out there pens to sign petitions because its offended them. If u are offended by it... dont buy the game or let your sons, kids etc play with them. It is pure nonsense. Oh also on a side note... if we are goin to have a argument on somethin like this please make a argument not just bash each other by making fun of accents and try to speculate because that just leads to unsupported claims and again is pure nonsense.

Nav

PS :sorry for the long speech, besides.. i will get to those missions soon as Eidos is kind enough to release a damn patch.

Muzman
2nd Nov 2002, 12:39
Reading more, I must say I can understand some annoyance on the part of Sikhs for the building in the game looking like the location of that fateful raid.
Some consultation and discussion with IOI and eidos about this might not be a bad idea. But all these cries of "racist! ban it! recall it! Or Else!" etc just cloud the issue. Like they say, there's nothing worse for a good issue than a bad advocate.

The Basilisk
2nd Nov 2002, 20:23
Buh bye, The Basilisk!
Thanks for playing.

- Zaphod

deathguy
3rd Nov 2002, 16:02
First: this is a only a GAME!!! This petition is ridiculous! :mad:

Second: what the hell is a Sikh? Never heard of that word in my life.

Zaphod
3rd Nov 2002, 16:49
Ugh.
Ok, that's enough.
What part of my rather lengthy warnings didn't you understand, The Basilisk?

I think we've run this discussion about as far as it's gonna go.

Thread Closed.