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View Full Version : FM - Mines of Magaroth: Anyway to up the ambient light level (w/o crashing the game)?



Vanguard
28th Oct 2002, 19:52
This FM has a crypt level that is pitch black. I don't play in Blind Thief mode. Garrett only has 2 senses: sight and sound. He has no touch.

I tried loading the FM into dromed, entering "ambient 20", portalizing, and then saving the .mis file (atop the one on the Thief directory that was getting loaded for the FM), but this causes bugs in the FM that make it crash the game back to the Windows desktop. I'm wondering if it makes a difference if I'm playing the T1 mission (which might've been written using TDP) using the TG engine and using the version of dromed that came with TG is causing the crash bugs to appear.

I find the navigation through the pitch dark crypts an exercise in boredom. Can't see anything but maybe a glimpse of a piece of a crypt. I don't play Thief to get headaches trying to squint in the dark. But I can't up the ambient light level using the dromed that came with TG on an FM designed with T1 (TDP?).

Upping the game or monitor's gamma doesn't help. Changing gamma on 100% black still gives you black.

Nightwalker
28th Oct 2002, 21:31
It is a bit dark, but I just wait until night to play it in a dark room and I can see just fine. I had the same problem with Brawl in the Tombs and dealt with it the same way.

Danventry
28th Oct 2002, 23:49
As much as it will make you look silly, throwing a blanket over your head and your computer will help you see. And you get really desprate: eat some carrots. ;) :p

clayman
29th Oct 2002, 00:17
Vanguard - I had the same trouble and quit for the same reason. No advice from me I'm afraid. Although I do like the image of you huddled over your monitor in the dark, blanket over your head, squinting hopelessly, and a small plate of carrots by your left elbow. ;) Very good mission, petrifying immersion(I said at the time I think that it made Cragcleft's mines look like the kiddie pool). But I gave up wandering around in the dark. Plus, I was most definitely not trying to Ghost; I must have blackjacked 100 AI and finally gave up due to a numb right arm. ;) :)

Nightwalker replied to a semi-complaint from me on this mission that the designer admits his FMs are a bit on the difficult side and was revising this one and releasing a future FM. One hopes he takes into account that we don't all like to play blindfolded. ;) :)

AsyluM
29th Oct 2002, 00:51
There is a way to increase the gamma above the maximum, this works in T2 but im not sure about TDP or TG. When in game hit "shift ;" a small command box will appear at the top of the screen. Then type "gamma 0.4" (no quotes). 0.5 is the standard maximum, but the closer to 0 the higher the gamma. If there is no ambient light set in the level then it wont make any difference, it will still be black. Also the closer you get to 0 things start looking pretty ugly and washed out.

Nightwalker
29th Oct 2002, 01:27
This actually IS the new version that has just been released as the first mission in a 4 pack, clayman. It's still a little on the dark side in the underground area, is wickedly hard and has some really fantastic stuff in it. It's worthwhile playing it only at night, if need be, to see it! :)

Apache
29th Oct 2002, 02:07
Originally posted by Vanguard
This FM has a crypt level that is pitch black. I don't play in Blind Thief mode. Garrett only has 2 senses: sight and sound. He has no touch.

I tried loading the FM into dromed, entering "ambient 20", portalizing, and then saving the .mis file (atop the one on the Thief directory that was getting loaded for the FM), but this causes bugs in the FM that make it crash the game back to the Windows desktop. I'm wondering if it makes a difference if I'm playing the T1 mission (which might've been written using TDP) using the TG engine and using the version of dromed that came with TG is causing the crash bugs to appear.



For Thief 2 you need to type Ambient 20 20 20.
For the 3 primary colors Red,Blue,Green
Then you'll need to set the Light setting to Objcast Lighting then Relight. Then resave as mis file.

clayman
29th Oct 2002, 02:27
Thanks, Apache. But no normal Dromedianly-clueless player should have to go to this trouble just to get an FM to work properly.

This is another example of an otherwise excellent mission that the designer just didn't go the final mile to make sure it was received the way it should have been. Who beta-tested this and accepted this level of darkness ? And why make it so hard that only a fraction of the Thieving populace can even finish it ? Another example of the 'my daddy is bigger than your daddy' competition-mindedness of 2001, imo. Too bad. :(

I still think this one of the absolute meanest, scariest, immersive missions of 2001. btw. :)

Vanguard
29th Oct 2002, 03:20
Well, I quit trying to play Mines of Margroth. I then started the Ruins of Originia. The title says Ashes to Ashes but the first mission is actually Mines of Margroth. The Ruins of Originia FM was done in T2, so the Mines FM got converted. The T1 version of Mines is a beta. The T2 version that is the 1st part of the 4-part series for Ruins doesn't look like a beta. A lot of changes went into the T2 version of Mines, too. One of the changes is that the ambient light is much better in the T2 version. It is dark but not black.

Now my problem is that I cannot complete this first part (Mines of Margroth). I got to the gate by the tornado but when clicked on a message says the gate won't open except over someone's dead skull. I've looked everywhere and haven't found a skull. I have found the other openings into that tornado chamber except the lowest one. I can lean out these openings but I can't get through them. You have to break glass to get into the Tricks area and inside is a square room that you have to blast open a door with 2 fire arrows. I found the mana seed in the bathroom tile room but haven't a clue what to do with it. In a room with a holy water fountain and a small garden outside (with a tunnel to one of the openings into the tornado chamber), I see gas arrows up in recesses in the ceiling. I did manage to get a rope arrow stuck in the ceiling of the passages up there but it doesn't hang low enough for me to grab. I'm thinking those openings were intended for only coming down and sliding off the rope. I found the secret in the church in the HQ where you start. I got 40 fire arrows in there, I had 13, so with 53 fire arrows there wasn't a problem clearing out the crypts and other halls that you get to via the mines. The headless mech beast are destroyed by bright light, so get a bunch huddled together and toss 2 flashbombs to vaporize them.

- I need a skull to open the gate into the tornado chamber. There are skull wall plaques in sides rooms in the bathroom tiled room where I got the mana seed but they're not frobbable and I haven't found a switch and blasting them with fire arrows doesn't work.

- I don't know what to do with the mana seed. Maybe that gets used later.

So far, it has been a very good FM except for one point: the constant maze followed by another maze followed by another maze and ad nauseum starts to make this FM drag out and get boring. Getting stuck in the middle of a war and cowering in a dark corner to wait it out was interesting. If I ever try to ghost this mission, it'll be right after I get bored with repeatedly sticking needles in my forearm, and I already know of several ghost busts that'll occur.

YcatX
31st Oct 2002, 20:47
Wow..

Now I did make the light higher for the T2 version.. I originally want to Make the player follow the T1 version Wisps (Before I knew T2 had them) through the catacombs. But things all change..

T2:
If your think it is too dark. Drop the Gem of Oldorf. It does create a spectral light (and bounces like a rubber ball). The light has other advantages that can be discovered in FM4.

Vanguard:

You are missing a couple of key areas.. The leve BELOW the Catacombs for example: TANK. Look at the side view map, or check out the Walk-through. The Skull is Bantar's Skull.. You Must kill him to open that gate... The next 3 are not as difficult. I didn't think that you would get so discouraged...

Here is what you need to do:
Enter the Hall of Lost Heroes. Blow open the door to Questorus. Pull the level.. Enter tank level... Get anicent map, press button... Enter secret passage.. Avoid Critters, avoid cyclopses... Press button. Go to next "button". Shoot button. Go to next "button". Shoot Button. Go the First button room. Look up.. Shoot button.. Now go to open hatches. Shoot north button.. Enter secret room (vents). Use rope arrow. Climb up to very top. Open Gate.. Just sucked up to the top level... Avoid French Ape-beast, Tricksterling. Watch conversation. Wait for thieves to die. Jump into pool. DON'T Touch walls. Come up in Bantar's Balcony. Kill wisp.. Kill Bantar... Get loot, Get maps, get amulet... Get guild message.. Read Guild message.. Go to Pit of Everfall.. Follow Directions.

You can always use the Walk-through...
www.ycatx.com

Vanguard
31st Oct 2002, 23:33
I got the scroll from the room with 3 sleeping mage zombies near the well (with all the potions and the whistling stone).

I turned on the generator, the red crystal blew (near the north heroes hall entrance) and alerted the merchant zombies. It didn't do anything to help so I reloaded and skipped that.

The scroll mentions hitting a button or maybe turning on the generator opens the secret door but that I would need a speed potion. Didn't have any at this point.

The scroll also mentions Viper VI's tomb. So I used the sunburst bomb to blow open its door. That's a ghost bust because of property damage. It didn't alert any AIs, even the midget haunt that had been spawned in the back hallway between the north and south hero halls. Flip a bunch of switches and I got into the "tank" area. Another shadow burrick and another bust. They and other AIs have night vision and can see me even if I am completely black so there was no way to get the ancient map without the burrick spotting me. Another ghost bust.

I didn't find this area until I read the scroll underneath the mage zombie. As with getting the 350 loot in the pirate's chest in the Tricks area, it doesn't occur to me to be smashing, slashing, blasting, or dousing objects everywhere.

I must've missed something back in the Tanks area because I thought it was just a small dead end area. I quit trying to ghost just because there are so many forced busts. Every AI in this mission in the areas that I've gotten to are either dead, unconscious, or in pieces.

YcatX
1st Nov 2002, 01:49
Originally posted by Vanguard
I got the scroll from the room with 3 sleeping mage zombies near the well (with all the potions and the whistling stone).

I turned on the generator, the red crystal blew (near the north heroes hall entrance) and alerted the merchant zombies. It didn't do anything to help so I reloaded and skipped that.

Those were the ghouls... I thought I had a speed potion to start with and got another in the well...

The scroll mentions hitting a button or maybe turning on the generator opens the secret door but that I would need a speed potion. Didn't have any at this point.

The scroll also mentions Viper VI's tomb. So I used the sunburst bomb to blow open its door. That's a ghost bust because of property damage. It didn't alert any AIs, even the midget haunt that had been spawned in the back hallway between the north and south hero halls. Flip a bunch of switches and I got into the "tank" area. Another shadow burrick and another bust. They and other AIs have night vision and can see me even if I am completely black so there was no way to get the ancient map without the burrick spotting me. Another ghost bust.

Man... oh man... These are ancient ruins... I didn't think property damage didn't matter.. :) After all there a madman making the earth shake and "cave-in"

I didn't find this area until I read the scroll underneath the mage zombie. As with getting the 350 loot in the pirate's chest in the Tricks area, it doesn't occur to me to be smashing, slashing, blasting, or dousing objects everywhere.

That is what made me MAD about Bonehoard.. I (the player) wanted to bust something open (like Felix's crew)... I felt short changed... And wanted to make my terrain more interactable for the starvingly greedy... :)

I must've missed something back in the Tanks area because I thought it was just a small dead end area.

TANK is actually MUCH larger then TRICKS, and I thought that people would use the map and the MAP shows the secret door...

I quit trying to ghost just because there are so many forced busts. Every AI in this mission in the areas that I've gotten to are either dead, unconscious, or in pieces.

Yea... I wanted a slaughter (It's needed for FM11... I need some "hunters" to track down Garrett.. I look at it this way.. In real life you may not have a shadow to hide in. With regard to some of the supernatural, I think that some SHOULD be able to see in the dark...

Vanguard
1st Nov 2002, 08:07
Had to quit ghosting. Too many busts. Got into the Tanks area. The buttons are nasty to find; they're easy to miss in the ceiling. Found the heart gem in the tank but, boy, you sure have to watch out for the exploding fish. Just one will kill Garrett. There is an ice capped shaft with a gold skull and diamonds in a recess near the top. The only way I could see to get at it was to try to frob them as I fell past, except the fall is too fast so I cannot frob them. I piled up potions to jump onto the ledge at the bottom but was still too far away to frob the skull and gems. Trying to get that loot is like trying to toss coins into a cup a few feet away while blindfolded.

This isn't the first time that I've had to stack potions to get somewhere or reach something. In the 2nd mission, and only if you're really lucky to snatch that rope in the water as you get propelled through the water tunnel, is a setup where rope arrows shoot up and stick into the ceiling and then 2 fire arrows shoot at the gem in the middle. The ends of the rope are not low enough to reach; I'm jumping all over trying to snatch the rope but don't even come close to even getting a grunt from Garrett because he never touches the ropes. I had to stack potions to mantle the ropes (and then I took them all with me except the one that I had to use to climb back down).

To leave, you go down the shaft that you got propelled up (to the apebeasts, tricksterling, and mage). This is the 2nd time, I think, that I've been propelled upward towards a rope (or the same occurred in the next mission). About half the time I miss the rope and fall to my death, or I land but miss whatever was at the other end of the rope. I also noticed slowfall potions don't work well at all. They just barely slow Garrett down but he still takes a big health hit on landing.

I got past the tornado into the next chamber with all the icons on the wall and am now into the next mission. Clicking all the icon panels in the next mission to figure out how to get out of the teleport maze seems purely luck. You click on the panels and only a couple have more than one panel. I eventually clicked on one, and then clicked on the same one after the teleport to get into the next room. Clicking on the same icon in the next room usually didn't do anything except take me back to the prior teleport room. There appears to be a hint in the maps regarding the mirror maze but it didn't mean anything to me.

I've done most everything except get in the lab. I'm at the big door, there was a journal that mention using explosives and the mask, but none of the explosives that I have do anything to that wall. The other route got blocked by rolling boulders. Hopefully the mask that I'm supposed to get wasn't the one that shot fireballs at me on entering the crypt area. That mask is toast after shooting it with a fire arrow.

At this point, I guess I'll have to look at the walkthrough rather than pumping you for hints. While the design is fantastic, I definitely feel that I'm solving riddles without knowing the clues.

YcatX
1st Nov 2002, 14:09
Originally posted by Vanguard
Had to quit ghosting. Too many busts. Got into the Tanks area. The buttons are nasty to find; they're easy to miss in the ceiling.

Its part of the escape route for the "rulers of Margroth.."

Found the heart gem in the tank but, boy, you sure have to watch out for the exploding fish. Just one will kill Garrett.

Yea... You should see the other Puffer fish I have in FM4. Not off othem hurt you, but in TANK they SURE do.. You can also hunt for white fish to heal you.. FM6 Garrett will be forces to eat rats... :)

There is an ice capped shaft with a gold skull and diamonds in a recess near the top. The only way I could see to get at it was to try to frob them as I fell past, except the fall is too fast so I cannot frob them.

Welcome to the circus.. :) actually you can jump to the northside of the shaft and stand on the light and grab the loot.. some of the loot has fallen since the earthquakes..

I piled up potions to jump onto the ledge at the bottom but was still too far away to frob the skull and gems. Trying to get that loot is like trying to toss coins into a cup a few feet away while blindfolded.

This isn't the first time that I've had to stack potions to get somewhere or reach something. In the 2nd mission, and only if you're really lucky to snatch that rope in the water as you get propelled through the water tunnel, is a setup where rope arrows shoot up and stick into the ceiling and then 2 fire arrows shoot at the gem in the middle.

Actually I can grab it EVERY time... You have crawl along the bottom and FALL into the rope... You can mantle up there.. No stacking required..


The ends of the rope are not low enough to reach; I'm jumping all over trying to snatch the rope but don't even come close to even getting a grunt from Garrett because he never touches the ropes. I had to stack potions to mantle the ropes (and then I took them all with me except the one that I had to use to climb back down).

To leave, you go down the shaft that you got propelled up (to the apebeasts, tricksterling, and mage). This is the 2nd time, I think, that I've been propelled upward towards a rope (or the same occurred in the next mission). About half the time I miss the rope and fall to my death, or I land but miss whatever was at the other end of the rope. I also noticed slowfall potions don't work well at all. They just barely slow Garrett down but he still takes a big health hit on landing.

Roughly 1 out of 3 times you make it through the water cannon. The trick is not to move much, and it should shoot you out of the water and onto the rope...

I got past the tornado into the next chamber with all the icons on the wall and am now into the next mission. Clicking all the icon panels in the next mission to figure out how to get out of the teleport maze seems purely luck. You click on the panels and only a couple have more than one panel. I eventually clicked on one, and then clicked on the same one after the teleport to get into the next room. Clicking on the same icon in the next room usually didn't do anything except take me back to the prior teleport room. There appears to be a hint in the maps regarding the mirror maze but it didn't mean anything to me.

Two deity help.. The others don't.. Yea... More info is needed.. Sorry :) People don't understand... I have too much "player" knowledge I guess...

I've done most everything except get in the lab. I'm at the big door, there was a journal that mention using explosives and the mask, but none of the explosives that I have do anything to that wall. The other route got blocked by rolling boulders. Hopefully the mask that I'm supposed to get wasn't the one that shot fireballs at me on entering the crypt area. That mask is toast after shooting it with a fire arrow.

Wow.. So you found the other 10 talismans? Its not an object it doesn't open... The gem of Oldorf makes ALL objects GLOW..

When you open the elemental wards, the doors to the other 10 talismans open up... So you haven't been ice-climbing in the Mountain pass yet?


At this point, I guess I'll have to look at the walkthrough rather than pumping you for hints. While the design is fantastic, I definitely feel that I'm solving riddles without knowing the clues. [/B]

Vanguard
1st Nov 2002, 18:58
Thank God for the walkthrough. I just spent 48 minutes trying to figure out how to destroy the cloning machine. I did a save and used up my entire inventory trying to figure out how to destroy the machine. Players are expected to guess through lots of trial and error that they blow up the machine in the other room with an energized piece of coal? Uffda!

I'm now in the next mission - a big bug hunt (for burricks).

YcatX
1st Nov 2002, 19:17
Originally posted by Vanguard
Thank God for the walkthrough. I just spent 48 minutes trying to figure out how to destroy the cloning machine. I did a save and used up my entire inventory trying to figure out how to destroy the machine. Players are expected to guess through lots of trial and error that they blow up the machine in the other room with an energized piece of coal? Uffda!

I used the explosive device... Yametha used a coal crystal. Well normally I would use both.. Drop the device next to the machine. Drop the Coal Crystal at the doorway. And shoot the Coal Crystal which detonates the device from a safe distance. I thought it would seem rather straight forward... Clear the buffer and blow up the machine... BTW: Did you like the shower of loot?

Did the cloning device play the error message? Error... Error... Eeerrrooorrr...? I had problems sometimes with that...

Did Guilded Rivalry seem a bit better Ghost wise?

Let me know when you get to the Volcano...(FM4) :) (And have fun playing Rambo.. (if you didn't use all your ammo up...))



I'm now in the next mission - a big bug hunt (for burricks).

Vanguard
2nd Nov 2002, 18:02
The objective said to destroy the cloning machine. Removing power (but destroying the generators or whatever was their focal collection source inside the pyramid) didn't seem to be what I should be destroying since restoring power would mean the cloning machine could be reused. So I was focusing on trying to blow up the cloning machine (where you see the clones of Bantar exit). If that machine was just some end equipment than it would've been most useful if there had been a plaque back on the pyramid saying that was the cloning machine (and maybe a plaque on the one with the conveyor belt saying it was the fabricator or materializer or some such). I had to use the walkthough to realize that I was trying to destroy the wrong machine. I didn't hear the "error ... error" message from the other machine since I was at the cloning machine, blew it up, and left.

Loot shower? I remember iron plates, iron cages, a flux piece, but I can't recall any loot. I collected all the frobbable pieces figuring maybe later that they might be usable in a later mission. I don't know if all inventory carries forward into the next missions or if it's just the weapons that carry forward. It does make for a lot of fluff to cycle through when going through your inventory.

Guilded Rivalry was more ghostable and more thiefsie. Because you don't label what things are, I hadn't a clue that the clue particle beams that engaged when I pressed the ankh to the plate were teleporters. They kind of look like disintegrators or high-energy electrical paths (a bigger version of the blue beam you see arcing across a couple pylons). They definitely didn't look safe. I figured this was something that I had powered up and would find what got powered up later. It wasn't until I decided to do a save and see what happens that I figured out they were teleporters. It's like showing a boiling pot of lava to a child and telling them to stick their hand in to retrieve a wad of cash. Oh, it's safe, believe me, while the child shakes his head no and writhes trying to get you to release their hand as you drag them in. Entering those blue particle beams didn't look like anything that I wanted to do.

I understand that there is supposed to be a leap of faith in the next "bug hunt" mission according to the walkthrough. The only spot might be across the lava to the exit door. However, I simply fell and died in the lava. There are a couple routes that go through the lava burrick maze to get to the door. There have been other invisible paths like this but usually you can get them to light up (as a blue speckled light path) by leaning out or tossing something on them or taking a half-step so you don't completely leave the solid ledge. A leap of faith means you actually have faith in something. Garrett doesn't strike me as the religious type or having faith in anything or anyone. So even if he were to take the leap, he wouldn't have the faith to support him. He needs evidence to the contrary of his experience. While the game gives us the ability to reload from save, in reality we play life in Iron Man mode. If I can't ghost a mission, I do try to play close to Iron Man mode to keep the level of tension and fear equal to ghosting.

YcatX
2nd Nov 2002, 18:37
Originally posted by Vanguard
The objective said to destroy the cloning machine. Removing power (but destroying the generators or whatever was their focal collection source inside the pyramid) didn't seem to be what I should be destroying since restoring power would mean the cloning machine could be reused. So I was focusing on trying to blow up the cloning machine (where you see the clones of Bantar exit). If that machine was just some end equipment than it would've been most useful if there had been a plaque back on the pyramid saying that was the cloning machine (and maybe a plaque on the one with the conveyor belt saying it was the fabricator or materializer or some such).

Point taken.. That was the hopper you were trying to destroy... The main machine was in the back, but since these devices were made by an ancient people long dead, I didn't think lables were appropriate... I never thought people would try to distroy the "front part".. I thought it was obvious with all the generators and pipes leading into the pryamid... Interesting...

I had to use the walkthough to realize that I was trying to destroy the wrong machine. I didn't hear the "error ... error" message from the other machine since I was at the cloning machine, blew it up, and left.

Loot shower?

After you empower all the deities... They shatter the crystal which is loot... The crystal pieces and "glass-like" shards is loot


I remember iron plates, iron cages, a flux piece, but I can't recall any loot. I collected all the frobbable pieces figuring maybe later that they might be usable in a later mission. I don't know if all inventory carries forward into the next missions or if it's just the weapons that carry forward. It does make for a lot of fluff to cycle through when going through your inventory.

Only a few objects that ISN'T loot carry over... Holy Water is not one that does, but Healing potions do...

Guilded Rivalry was more ghostable and more thiefsie. Because you don't label what things are, I hadn't a clue that the clue particle beams that engaged when I pressed the ankh to the plate were teleporters. They kind of look like disintegrators or high-energy electrical paths (a bigger version of the blue beam you see arcing across a couple pylons).

So I guess you never fired up the ones in the Training Halls (The machine room near the "water cannon"

They definitely didn't look safe. I figured this was something that I had powered up and would find what got powered up later. It wasn't until I decided to do a save and see what happens that I figured out they were teleporters. It's like showing a boiling pot of lava to a child and telling them to stick their hand in to retrieve a wad of cash. Oh, it's safe, believe me, while the child shakes his head no and writhes trying to get you to release their hand as you drag them in. Entering those blue particle beams didn't look like anything that I wanted to do.

Well... The Guild sealed off thier level and use those to protect from invasion... You you listen to all 3 conversations?

I understand that there is supposed to be a leap of faith in the next "bug hunt" mission according to the walkthrough. The only spot might be across the lava to the exit door.

Leap of Faith = Ice Slide or did you figure away around the collapsed room (with the Shadow Burrick?)

However, I simply fell and died in the lava. There are a couple routes that go through the lava burrick maze to get to the door. There have been other invisible paths like this but usually you can get them to light up (as a blue speckled light path) by leaning out or tossing something on them or taking a half-step so you don't completely leave the solid ledge. A leap of faith means you actually have faith in something. Garrett doesn't strike me as the religious type or having faith in anything or anyone. So even if he were to take the leap, he wouldn't have the faith to support him. He needs evidence to the contrary of his experience. While the game gives us the ability to reload from save, in reality we play life in Iron Man mode. If I can't ghost a mission, I do try to play close to Iron Man mode to keep the level of tension and fear equal to ghosting.

To me stepping off a cliff down a virtually sheer drop.. Would count as a "leap of faith"..

How about if I had Garrett unarmed, who just escaped, (which triggers and event of getting 7 Armored AIs to chase Garrett because of the escape).. Now Garrett has only two ways to run.. To the guards, or away from the guards. Now if Garrett runs away from the guards, he will notice that leads to a cliff. Would you jump off the cliff (far below is poisionous water)?

Huntress
2nd Nov 2002, 23:41
YcatX...I have been to your Web site (very very nice I may add) but I cannot find your link to get the walkthrough? Can you please tell me where to find this as I would much appreciate it. :) I see nothing that indicates this area...? Ta and Good Hunting!

YcatX
3rd Nov 2002, 01:43
Yea... I didn't mark my hyperlinks well...

Projects-Thief-"Click on Walkthroughs by Yametha"

Vanguard
3rd Nov 2002, 17:43
For a faster way to get to the walkthrough, go to:

http://www.ycatx.com/thief/iots_roo4.htm

YcatX
3rd Nov 2002, 18:42
Originally posted by Vanguard
For a faster way to get to the walkthrough, go to:

http://www.ycatx.com/thief/iots_roo4.htm


Vanguard, did you make it to the Museum of the Ancients? or are you still fartting around with the Burricks? :)

Vanguard
3rd Nov 2002, 19:42
I'm still in the bug hunt mission. I had hosted a Halloween party yesterday (where we needed to polish some stuff maze building in the garage and get all the food and drinks ready), had the party, and pretty much slept late today. That spiked punch takes a lot out of me. Today I get to dismantle and store the maze.

I have been running around the ice and fire tunnels looking for more burricks but haven't discovered anymore yet. I don't usually revert to the maps but I might have to (to ensure I've been everywhere). The objective says to kill all the burricks and it hasn't checked off yet so I have to assume there are more bugs to squash.

YcatX
3rd Nov 2002, 20:22
Originally posted by Vanguard
I'm still in the bug hunt mission. I had hosted a Halloween party yesterday (where we needed to polish some stuff maze building in the garage and get all the food and drinks ready), had the party, and pretty much slept late today. That spiked punch takes a lot out of me. Today I get to dismantle and store the maze.

I have been running around the ice and fire tunnels looking for more burricks but haven't discovered anymore yet. I don't usually revert to the maps but I might have to (to ensure I've been everywhere). The objective says to kill all the burricks and it hasn't checked off yet so I have to assume there are more bugs to squash.

Check the upper levels, and the two areas around the ice-bridges... (As well as the ice-tunnel that leads into the giant caverns.)

Most of the Lava Burricks hang out in the loop, and in the lava pools below the loop...

Sorry.. No map...

Vanguard
4th Nov 2002, 02:11
I found the one remaining ice burrick. As you wipe out burricks, it gets harder to find them; i.e., their density goes down. Once I nailed that last burrick, the objective got checked off and the mission ended so now I'm into the museum mission.

I could hear the treebeast wandering around but I couldn't see it. When I did, it saw me and I was crunched toast. I had expected the volume for its trunksteps to be louder and had figured it was still far enough away, but it wasn't. I saw it just as it passed me.

I have an ATI Radeon video card and fog never has worked for me with this card regardless of using old or new drivers. Some fog-like effects are visible, like steam escaping from pipes, but seeing an invisible AI in the fog can't be seen by me. The only portion of the treebeast that I can see is the refraction of the light (when the treebeast is in the open and objects behind are more visible so I can see the refraction). That's a defect with using the ATI video card. Next video card will be an nVidia.

Huntress
4th Nov 2002, 03:19
Thanks much for the link and I've read the Mines and I have to tell you...I saw nothing that indicated which cart had the loot? Was the idea here to just blow them all up to see which one? With guards around this was not really feasible...and now I figure if I want it I have to either BJ or in this case, kill the two guards that are still alive at the front door of Hammer/Guard bldg and the one in front of the City door still? If I try to blow up the cart...it will surely alert them...even though I have put out all the torches in front of these doors...it still takes a bit of doing to hide from them...and I'm sure glad I'm not playing Expert, LOL No way in h-e-l-! would I ever be able to play this on "that" level :eek: Hats off to you Vanguard! Then after reading a lot of the chatter regarding the playing of this game...not sure if I will be able to continue? It seems pretty complicated for my poor brain to work out...? I dunno, I'll still try for awhile, with the help of the walkthrough...but wish I wouldn't have to refer to it as much as I think I'm going to have to. Also, I'm in the same boat as Vanguard regarding the use of "fog" in my games. I also own an ATI card that's now in and just bought another to replace it...although it's the Radeon 8500LE 128 Gamer card and they do have a newer version of the Catalist drivers that came out recently. ver 3.2, I believe and maybe that won't be an issue anymore? It seems to me that that feature had best be resolved by ATI as it is used more often now in games...and people won't like it if they can't fix it. I really don't understand why this doesn't work...even though it's supposed to support it? :( Well we'll see as I get things installed pretty soon. Thanks again for info and Good Hunting!

YcatX
4th Nov 2002, 03:38
Originally posted by Vanguard
I found the one remaining ice burrick. As you wipe out burricks, it gets harder to find them; i.e., their density goes down. Once I nailed that last burrick, the objective got checked off and the mission ended so now I'm into the museum mission.

I could hear the treebeast wandering around but I couldn't see it. When I did, it saw me and I was crunched toast. I had expected the volume for its trunksteps to be louder and had figured it was still far enough away, but it wasn't. I saw it just as it passed me.

No no no... My friend you must take them out... They are looking for you, and are sent by a deity... The ARE INVISIBLE!!! You have the means of making them visible (within the radius)...
DROP THE GEM OF OLDORF NEAR THEM TO SEE THEM

I have an ATI Radeon video card and fog never has worked for me with this card regardless of using old or new drivers. Some fog-like effects are visible, like steam escaping from pipes, but seeing an invisible AI in the fog can't be seen by me. The only portion of the treebeast that I can see is the refraction of the light (when the treebeast is in the open and objects behind are more visible so I can see the refraction). That's a defect with using the ATI video card. Next video card will be an nVidia.

No just use the objects I gave you...

[

YcatX
4th Nov 2002, 03:48
Originally posted by Huntress
Thanks much for the link and I've read the Mines and I have to tell you...I saw nothing that indicated which cart had the loot?

A scroll in the safe talked about the Gems being hidden... and there a single gold coin (dropped by the merchant) next to it..

Was the idea here to just blow them all up to see which one? With guards around this was not really feasible...and now I figure if I want it I have to either BJ or in this case, kill the two guards that are still alive at the front door of Hammer/Guard bldg and the one in front of the City door still? If I try to blow up the cart...it will surely alert them...even though I have put out all the torches in front of these doors...it still takes a bit of doing to hide from them...and I'm sure glad I'm not playing Expert, LOL

Actually... Most of the fun for me is getting them to chase me and have the teams wipe each other out... Or lock them in different rooms is often fun as well.. If you KO the bowmen first BEFORE the assassins are activated, and duck for cover and use fire arrows to lure enemies together... It makes me feel like Arrow Flynn as Robin Hood meet Keystone Capers... The hidden need is to have people get killed indirectly by Garrett actions so I have a feasable reason to have them later come back from the dead and actively look for you for evil-dead vengence...

No way in h-e-l-! would I ever be able to play this on "that" level :eek: Hats off to you Vanguard! Then after reading a lot of the chatter regarding the playing of this game...not sure if I will be able to continue? It seems pretty complicated for my poor brain to work out...? I dunno, I'll still try for awhile, with the help of the walkthrough...but wish I wouldn't have to refer to it as much as I think I'm going to have to. Also, I'm in the same boat as Vanguard regarding the use of "fog" in my games. I also own an ATI card that's now in and just bought another to replace it...although it's the Radeon 8500LE 128 Gamer card and they do have a newer version of the Catalist drivers that came out recently. ver 3.2, I believe and maybe that won't be an issue anymore? It seems to me that that feature had best be resolved by ATI as it is used more often now in games...and people won't like it if they can't fix it. I really don't understand why this doesn't work...even though it's supposed to support it? :( Well we'll see as I get things installed pretty soon. Thanks again for info and Good Hunting!

No worries... The fog isn't quite the fog your thinking about... and I only use it inside the crater of the volcano... However, we will see...

Peter_Smith
5th Nov 2002, 06:08
Well, this has nothing to do with ambient lighting, but I completed Guilded Rivalry last night.:) Not an AI left standing. It was all fairly straightforward (but still tricky) with two exceptions:

1. Like Vanguard, I was puzzled by the objective to destroy the machine. Not that I did not think about blasting the thingy in the pyramid. I did think about it, and I did it. Trouble was, I blasted it before eliminating the clones. I thought that approach was pretty logical. Nothing happened. After eliminating the clones, I never thought to try it again.:)

2. I looked for hours for missing daggers (all other objectives complete) before consulting the walkthrough. It was one little detail. I failed to realize that you could (and needed to) jump through some curtains, but you could not walk through them. I had never seen jumping through curtains in any mission before. I even went back and slashed at all the curtains and blind frobbed them at one point, thinking some of them might yield to that treatment. Nope. Frankly, I think it would have been better to just allow walking through them, even if it would have been easier.

I thought that unlocking all those wooden doors and trunks got a little repetitious, but other than that I thoroughly enjoyed this mission. I liked the water cannon. I particularly liked the parts of the mission after placing the deity talismans, including the route over the snow and the happenings in the laboratory. I thought that the climbs over the mountains of mine tailings were quite good, too - a kind of disorienting effect.

So, it's off to kill some burricks in Part 3.:)

YcatX
5th Nov 2002, 07:26
Originally posted by Peter Smith
Well, this has nothing to do with ambient lighting, but I completed Guilded Rivalry last night.:) Not an AI left standing. It was all fairly straightforward (but still tricky) with two exceptions:

Personally I try no to KO any thieves... Let the spiders take care of them later...

1. Like Vanguard, I was puzzled by the objective to destroy the machine. Not that I did not think about blasting the thingy in the pyramid. I did think about it, and I did it. Trouble was, I blasted it before eliminating the clones. I thought that approach was pretty logical. Nothing happened. After eliminating the clones, I never thought to try it again.:)

Originally wanted it to constantly spit one out when one got killed, but I couldn't make the logic happen. So I made a buffer, and two objectives (Clear the buffer, and Destroy the machine)When the buffer is being refilled that gives you the time, cause it will take days to make another.

2. I looked for hours for missing daggers (all other objectives complete) before consulting the walkthrough. It was one little detail. I failed to realize that you could (and needed to) jump through some curtains, but you could not walk through them. I had never seen jumping through curtains in any mission before. I even went back and slashed at all the curtains and blind frobbed them at one point, thinking some of them might yield to that treatment. Nope. Frankly, I think it would have been better to just allow walking through them, even if it would have been easier.

I thought it would be too obvious to walk through them.. I thought people would lean into them to locate them.. And if you look closely you can see the other curtain behind it... or toss things through them...

I thought that unlocking all those wooden doors and trunks got a little repetitious, but other than that I thoroughly enjoyed this mission. I liked the water cannon. I particularly liked the parts of the mission after placing the deity talismans, including the route over the snow and the happenings in the laboratory. I thought that the climbs over the mountains of mine tailings were quite good, too - a kind of disorienting effect.

Yea, but if the thieves SEE a door open they will use programmed responses (INTRUDERS) and be searching until they see an enemy. (Search,scan)

So, it's off to kill some burricks in Part 3.:)

Good luck! I hope you brought your ammo with you..

Peter_Smith
5th Nov 2002, 08:42
Personally I try no to KO any thieves... Let the spiders take care of them later...

Ah, yes, but then you have advanced knowledge.:) I never new that would happen.

Vanguard
5th Nov 2002, 18:26
The only way in the Guilded Rivalry that I knew there might be an opening behind the curtains was:

- On the map, there were 2 rooms shown behind where was the throne chair that I never got to. In prior missions, there were sections of the map where you could not get to because of collapsed earth, so I wasn't sure but decided to take a look. I did think it was weird there was a fire behind the throne and right next to flammable curtains.

- I would face the curtains and lean left and right to see through the crack in the middle. Most times I could see the brick wall behind the curtains but sometimes not. When I couldn't see the brick wall, I would lean forward. However, I butted my head into a brick wall so many times that I gave up trying to see if there was a passage - until I discovered the rooms mentioned above behind the throne. Then I had to re-scan all the curtains. The last objective was getting the mask and I had been everywhere else so the curtains seem the last chance to find it.
<hr>
In the last mission, Ashes to Ashes, it becomes really apparent that no clues were left for many riddles. To find the first builder, an objective, the player wonders why they would care about a pile of bones (which are not gold). They are also not going to bash on every wall checking to see if it collapses. Without the walkthrough, I would've never completed that mission. This is a mission in desparate need of books and scrolls to provide hints on how to solve all the riddles, to identify objects (like the beam transporters which look like power shunts that would fry you), and clues on what might be best effective against the new AIs. You could reduce the number of scrolls as the difficulty level increased, but many players at the Normal level are going to get very frustrated with these missions. Not every player will go ask. They'll just give up and move on to another FM.

Before completing the viewing of all the exhibits, I had gone back outside and took care of the invisible treebeasts. I only had one sunburst bomb; there are 2 in the storage room in the Mechanist exhibit but I used on somewhere (probably to take out a nasty AI or bunch of them). Only 1 sunburst bomb is insufficient to clear the tunnel into the volcano; only the first boulder got removed and other boulders still blocked the tunnel, and fire arrows didn't work. After completing other objectives, like getting the first builder, when I came back to the tunnel now it was cleared for me. That seemed strange. When I left, it was blocked. When I came back, it was clear. And nothing I did in the exhibits would've led me to believe that some action of mine would've cleared the volcano tunnel.

Yametha
6th Nov 2002, 00:15
The clearing of the tunnel was a scripted event. IT was just one of those things that happened, like the boulders that blocked the passage in GR, forcing you to release the deities.

YcatX
6th Nov 2002, 14:48
Originally posted by Vanguard
The only way in the Guilded Rivalry that I knew there might be an opening behind the curtains was:

- On the map, there were 2 rooms shown behind where was the throne chair that I never got to. In prior missions, there were sections of the map where you could not get to because of collapsed earth, so I wasn't sure but decided to take a look. I did think it was weird there was a fire behind the throne and right next to flammable curtains.

- I would face the curtains and lean left and right to see through the crack in the middle. Most times I could see the brick wall behind the curtains but sometimes not. When I couldn't see the brick wall, I would lean forward. However, I butted my head into a brick wall so many times that I gave up trying to see if there was a passage - until I discovered the rooms mentioned above behind the throne. Then I had to re-scan all the curtains. The last objective was getting the mask and I had been everywhere else so the curtains seem the last chance to find it.

I thought normal usage of the curtains was rather boring, so I make it so you have to jump through it..

<hr>
In the last mission, Ashes to Ashes, it becomes really apparent that no clues were left for many riddles. To find the first builder, an objective, the player wonders why they would care about a pile of bones (which are not gold).

Do you know how much cash Garrett could get from SELLING the bones of the Hammerite's FIRST BUILDER think about it..

They are also not going to bash on every wall checking to see if it collapses. Without the walkthrough, I would've never completed that mission. This is a mission in desparate need of books and scrolls to provide hints on how to solve all the riddles, to identify objects (like the beam transporters which look like power shunts that would fry you), and clues on what might be best effective against the new AIs. You could reduce the number of scrolls as the difficulty level increased, but many players at the Normal level are going to get very frustrated with these missions. Not every player will go ask. They'll just give up and move on to another FM.

Before completing the viewing of all the exhibits, I had gone back outside and took care of the invisible treebeasts. I only had one sunburst bomb; there are 2 in the storage room in the Mechanist exhibit but I used on somewhere (probably to take out a nasty AI or bunch of them). Only 1 sunburst bomb is insufficient to clear the tunnel into the volcano; only the first boulder got removed and other boulders still blocked the tunnel, and fire arrows didn't work. After completing other objectives, like getting the first builder, when I came back to the tunnel now it was cleared for me. That seemed strange. When I left, it was blocked. When I came back, it was clear. And nothing I did in the exhibits would've led me to believe that some action of mine would've cleared the volcano tunnel.

Sure it did... The Darkone exhibit activates more Shadowbeasts, and remove one of the rocks. The Museum Demise exhibit talks about the orb that is eathing the world, it also removes the second rock. This keeps the player from exploring the inner volcano untill it is needed..

Peter_Smith
6th Nov 2002, 15:14
Hi YcatX,

I am having trouble with Fire and Ice. I have killed 26 burricks, and I have been wandering around for some time without finding another. So I have three questions. (1) Does it help to clash the stone corpse until they fall apart? That doesn't seem to increase the kill count.
(2) Apart from continuning to run around like a crazy person, is there some easy way to find the last burrick or two? (3) How many are there?

I should note that I had great difficulty getting from one part of the cell area to the other, so I could enter the fire section. The only path I could find was right next to the cell block wall, which invoved a squeeze that rendered me almost imobile. Blowing up the boulder helped, but it did not make the passage free. It remained a notch shape. I had to lean, crouch, and wiggle a lot to get unstuck and past that point. Is there another way?

Also, I could find no use for that water passage below the stairs that start from the cell block. Could find nothing there and could not get past the blockage. I cannot break the icicles.

Same thing with the water passage at the start.

YcatX
6th Nov 2002, 18:48
Originally posted by Peter Smith
Hi YcatX,

I am having trouble with Fire and Ice. I have killed 26 burricks, and I have been wandering around for some time without finding another. So I have three questions.

How many burricks are there?
33 total. That's 17 regular frost burricks, 3 "bigger" frost burricks, 1 shadow burrick, two standard burricks and 10 lava burricks.


(1) Does it help to clash the stone corpse until they fall apart? That doesn't seem to increase the kill count.

No thats just for show.. I think you CAN climb on them.. Never actually tried...

(2) Apart from continuning to run around like a crazy person, is there some easy way to find the last burrick or two?

Because it's so big, and limitations with the size.. The burricks will stop moving if you are too far away from them.. So this can cause them to stack up... Basicly there are three levels.. Upper, Middle, and Bottom... As a suggestion check the upper and middle near the two ice-bridges..

(3) How many are there?

see above

I should note that I had great difficulty getting from one part of the cell area to the other, so I could enter the fire section.

NOOOOOOO... DAMN... I thought I made it impossible... It's supposed to be impassable.....Oh well.. I'll have to make something to BLOCK.. HOW did you get throught... I know the ShadowBurrick can squeeze through.. But the player wasn't supposed too..

The only path I could find was right next to the cell block wall, which invoved a squeeze that rendered me almost imobile. Blowing up the boulder helped, but it did not make the passage free.

So I'll have to give the boulders immortality and a bigger phyical dimension.....

It remained a notch shape. I had to lean, crouch, and wiggle a lot to get unstuck and past that point. Is there another way?

Yep... Remember that big wall of ice? "Frozen waterfall"..

Also, I could find no use for that water passage below the stairs that start from the cell block. Could find nothing there and could not get past the blockage. I cannot break the icicles.

You will evenutally fall into that area... (MAN-O-MAN.. He squeezed through it... I tried for hours and I thought it was impossible..)

Same thing with the water passage at the start.

No you can break the ones at start, but it leads to a watery grave... Thats just where the passage "ends" blocked and flooded... Therefore Garrett must enter the Burrick's realm..




YcatX is still dazed.. "Someone got through..."

Sneak
6th Nov 2002, 19:12
Ycatx,
Haven't posted in a while.

Am close to the finish in the last mission. Running around in the Museum. Have been in every exhibit. Can't find a clue on the Amulet or whatever it is. So I am hunting around blind. But I must be close. It does seem obvious what I have to do with the Book though. That tunnel was closed when I came in but bet I can get into it now. Just fits!

And the Alien Orb, will have to see when I get there.

Fire and Ice was my least fav. While it was some fun hunting Burricks, those tunnels with no map got me all tied up. I went by the exit tunnel many times but I finally found it. Getting over to the Fire Burricks side was a task. I knew where I had to get because I had used an Orb to look over some hills I could not climb. But could not find any access to the area except for a too high drop. So I used A Slow Fall and dropped down there.

I had to stop playing over the weekend because I had other things up. But I will get back to it. :)

YcatX
6th Nov 2002, 19:28
Originally posted by Sneak
Ycatx,
Haven't posted in a while.

Am close to the finish in the last mission. Running around in the Museum. Have been in every exhibit. Can't find a clue on the Amulet or whatever it is. So I am hunting around blind. But I must be close. It does seem obvious what I have to do with the Book though. That tunnel was closed when I came in but bet I can get into it now. Just fits!

And the Alien Orb, will have to see when I get there.

Fire and Ice was my least fav. While it was some fun hunting Burricks, those tunnels with no map got me all tied up. I went by the exit tunnel many times but I finally found it. Getting over to the Fire Burricks side was a task. I knew where I had to get because I had used an Orb to look over some hills I could not climb. But could not find any access to the area except for a too high drop. So I used A Slow Fall and dropped down there.

Wow... I didn't think about that one... I thought everyone would have used them all by now... No worries...I'll give you the spoiler: actually you can slide the 300 unit tall ice slide at the upper most cave... You can see it in the from the two ice bridges.. Simply step off on to it, and you travel faster than Garrett ever did before... (Other than the "Water-cannon" in Guilded Rivalry (GR))

I had to stop playing over the weekend because I had other things up. But I will get back to it. :)

Yep... Its a motley mix of missions...

Vanguard
6th Nov 2002, 19:47
I don't think Peter is talking about where the shadow burrick can simply walk through the icicles to get to the other half of the cell room. I could not get through where the shadow burrick came through. Instead walk over to the leftmost cell (where within is a stoned fire burrick) and to the right is a pile of mine pilings and a couple icicles. You can squeeze through the icicles but it is extremely tight and requires lots of rotating, jumping, crouching, leaning, and running to finally get unstuck from there. This the spot where a mound almost blocks one of the cell doors. That's how I got through and probably where Peter is also talking about. Besides getting stuck, there is a boulder in there that will move a wee bit but you cannot pick it up when stuck trying to squeeze through the opening.

Yametha
6th Nov 2002, 22:04
Originally posted by Sneak
Can't find a clue on the Amulet or whatever it is. So I am hunting around blind.

Do you remember the place with the muck tyrant and all the loot?

Sneak
7th Nov 2002, 01:29
Yametha,
A Muck Tyrant? I don't remember any muck in there for a tyrant to be in! HA! ;)

But being that I could identify most things in there, I am assuming that A Muck Tyrant is a weird sounding, fire and ice shooting, floating Eyeball, with funky arms, that loses you when you dash around a corner because he is too lazy to come and find you.

Am I close? ;)

Peter_Smith
7th Nov 2002, 04:44
How many burricks are there?
33 total. That's 17 regular frost burricks, 3 "bigger" frost burricks, 1 shadow burrick, two standard burricks and 10 lava burricks.

Holy Moley! Missing seven after all that running around? Very surprising to me. I'll try some more, but I am getting discouraged. I sense a CTRL-ALT-SHIFT-END coming on.:)

Yametha
7th Nov 2002, 05:17
Yes, that's it. Muck tyrants are dangerous, but peaceful, and if you move away and leave it alone, it will be content with that.

Anyway, did you find a room with a pedastal in the middle of it? (within the exhibit)

On the pedestal is the amulet, a disc of gold with an emerald in the centre.

Peter_Smith
12th Nov 2002, 04:12
YcatX,

FYI, I finished Fire and Ice the normal way. Got all loot but 100. I found four missing fire burricks in the exit area, which I had missed before. Seems simple enough, but for some reason that exit room passage is easy to miss. My total number of kills was 29, not 33. Something seems wrong with the stats or your burrick total. Funny think was, I added four kills and increased my total by only 3.

I also found the leap/slide, the correct entry to the other side of the cell area. Talk about a leap of faith.:rolleyes: That was a very tough one to see. I kind of like my illegal short cut better.;) At least now I understand what all those passages were down there by the cells.

I am in the middle of Ashed to Ashes. I have a question. Below the rose painting I find a big cave pond with exploding fish. A pedestal with something red and frobbable is on an island, but I don't know what it does or how to activate it. And I can't escape from that room once I am in the fish section. What am I missing?

As I write this I am battling bots in the mine.:)

YcatX
12th Nov 2002, 04:52
Originally posted by Peter Smith
YcatX,

FYI, I finished Fire and Ice the normal way. Got all loot but 100. I found four missing fire burricks in the exit area, which I had missed before. Seems simple enough, but for some reason that exit room passage is easy to miss. My total number of kills was 29, not 33. Something seems wrong with the stats or your burrick total. Funny think was, I added four kills and increased my total by only 3.

I also found the leap/slide, the correct entry to the other side of the cell area. Talk about a leap of faith.:rolleyes: That was a very tough one to see. I kind of like my illegal short cut better.;) At least now I understand what all those passages were down there by the cells.

I am in the middle of Ashed to Ashes. I have a question. Below the rose painting I find a big cave pond with exploding fish. A pedestal with something red and frobbable is on an island, but I don't know what it does or how to activate it.

Actually you can escape... Just that you have to plant a rope arrow in the post with the glow moss on it.. There is a long vine that is on the sloped cealing.. That vine is climbable (with new Vine sounds...) But if you never planted that rope arrow before dropping down, you can never get back out...

As for the patch of dirt? Maybe something has to be poured on it?

And I can't escape from that room once I am in the fish section. What am I missing?

The huge vine growing up the cavern wall. Then to the bottom of the rope-arrow that you needed to "stack"

As I write this I am battling bots in the mine.:)

Gee... I wonder if the Mechs have anything to hold water?

An ancient bucket

An ancient spring

An ancient flower

Repeat process

Peter_Smith
12th Nov 2002, 05:03
Thanks, YcatX. I saw that bucket. I have not seen an ancient spring or an ancient flower. So you need to collect these things before going down to that fish cave? Pretty obscure.

OK, so there is a way out if you have all the stuff and do things in the right. Why do you go want to down there in the first place? I can't find anything of value. Seems a little obscure to me.

Now that I have killed all the bots in the mechanist area I found a safe with one door that opens and the other door fast shut.

Another mystery. I'll just keep wandering around and see what happens. Haven't been to all the exhibits yet.

Sorry to ask so many dumb questions.
The shortage of clues is a little problem in this mission.

Very interesting concepts, though. I should say that the Mexicam pyramid and the AI on it were outstanding.

YcatX
12th Nov 2002, 05:27
Originally posted by Peter Smith
Thanks, YcatX. I saw that bucket. I have not seen an ancient spring or an ancient flower. So you need to collect these things before going down to that fish cave? Pretty obscure.

OK, so there is a way out if you have all the stuff and do things in the right. Why do you go want to down there in the first place? I can't find anything of value. Seems a little obscure to me.

Well actually that is only for a BONUS Objective (And some loot if you repeat the process) The problem is there is no more Rainbow Roses...

But there was an ancient spring that had healing powers.... Hmmmm I wonder what would've happened if Ole Viktoria take a swim? Over the centuries the legends became distorted, its a healing fountain, but not everyone/everything can benifit.

Now that I have killed all the bots in the mechanist area I found a safe with one door that opens and the other door fast shut.

I really didn't want to make the 4 levels above and the 2 below. That mine is big too.. Too big for Ashes to Ashes... So I make the lower levels collapse into shadows, and the upper sealed by the Mechs..

Another mystery. I'll just keep wandering around and see what happens. Haven't been to all the exhibits yet.

Sorry to ask so many dumb questions.
The shortage of clues is a little problem in this mission.

Isn't that a problem with all my missions..

Very interesting concepts, though. I should say that the Mexicam pyramid and the AI on it were outstanding.

Thanks... and they told me the Mesa Verte couldn't be done! Besides I didn't want to give everything away before I destroy the world? Garrett saves the world (again) in Ashes to Ashes... But that really pisses off the Book's Master, who wants it back...

Ole Garrett really let the CAT out of the Bag when he released the dieties..

BTW: No worries... Like I said before, I wrote these on my own behalf. I wanted to see some of my places in 3d life. :)

Peter_Smith
12th Nov 2002, 06:48
OK, I grew the rose and got out. Spectacular! I take it there is no reward down there other than the rose itself? I must say, I never would have gotten that without your help.:) The route out was very hard to see and to anticipate.

YcatX
12th Nov 2002, 13:56
Originally posted by Peter Smith
OK, I grew the rose and got out. Spectacular! I take it there is no reward down there other than the rose itself? I must say, I never would have gotten that without your help.:) The route out was very hard to see and to anticipate.

You know that you can grow up to 8 more flowers, and four of which is loot!
I originally wanted Garrett to have to climb hand over hand across a cealing but it was much too difficult to pull off...

Sneak
12th Nov 2002, 16:37
Maybe I missed it above, but there is a way to grow all those Rainbow Roses without the bucket and spring water. ;)

And in the mine, heh, before I found out that there was nothing to get in the security area, I spent a lot of time trying to assault my way in there. Gas arrows, mine field for the bots, fire arrows, no idea how many mechs I finally had piled up in there. Where the heck did they all come from? Never saw that many while I was lurking around down there.

I finished this one a while back. The Alien Orb was hard to hit, took a bunch of tries. :)

YcatX
12th Nov 2002, 17:33
Originally posted by Sneak
Maybe I missed it above, but there is a way to grow all those Rainbow Roses without the bucket and spring water. ;)

Really? How or what key did you use?

And in the mine, heh, before I found out that there was nothing to get in the security area, I spent a lot of time trying to assault my way in there. Gas arrows, mine field for the bots, fire arrows, no idea how many mechs I finally had piled up in there. Where the heck did they all come from? Never saw that many while I was lurking around down there.

I had a bunch hanging out upstairs...

I finished this one a while back. The Alien Orb was hard to hit, took a bunch of tries. :)

Did you try throwing it at it close to it? If so did your body bounce around like a rubber ball?

Sneak
12th Nov 2002, 17:48
Ycatx,
I used the Master or Clear key or whatever it was called that I got in that mechanical room in the Museum. I could grow the Rainbow Roses using that.

And that spot was a trip. I could get up on that mound out of the water but those Sploding Fish could swin right up on dry land and hammer me. Found that if I jumped up on the planter and got to the backside of it that the explosions didn't hurt me.

But I still went on another Pirahna Bow Hunt for fun. ;)

On the Alien Orb, Yes I tried throwing it in up close at first and got blown away. I did not bounce. Tried it from further back and still was plowed. So had to do it from way above. That was tough. :)

YcatX
12th Nov 2002, 21:59
Originally posted by Sneak
Ycatx,
I used the Master or Clear key or whatever it was called that I got in that mechanical room in the Museum. I could grow the Rainbow Roses using that.

I was afraid of that... (Its a master key, and I needed to adjust region of the Bucket to another one...) After endless Beta-testing I still find them...

And that spot was a trip. I could get up on that mound out of the water but those Sploding Fish could swin right up on dry land and hammer me. Found that if I jumped up on the planter and got to the backside of it that the explosions didn't hurt me.

Never could figure out how to keep in the water...

But I still went on another Pirahna Bow Hunt for fun. ;)

Sometimes the fish will swim so fast that they can fly over your head. As if they just used a Ski-jump or something...

On the Alien Orb, Yes I tried throwing it in up close at first and got blown away. I did not bounce. Tried it from further back and still was plowed. So had to do it from way above. That was tough. :)

Thanks again for locating that bug... I'll fix it when I release the whole package of 12 missions...