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Godfather
27th Oct 2002, 14:05
Yesterday I saw Terminator II: Judgment day. Besides the fact that it has still some of the very best special effects ever made, it's just a perfect movie with an even better storyline and interesting characters. Despite all that, I'm still not too sure that T2 is better than T1. I kinda really like that dark, mysterious and realistic 'cat-and-mouse-game' atmosphere between Ahnuld Schwarzenegger and Michael Biehn. :)

This poll is very simple. What do you think is the best sequel ever made AND what sequel is actually better than its original. And don't be too quick in your judgment! People always tend to say that The Godfather part II is better than The Godfather, but I disagree. It's a marvelous sequel (probably the best) but is it really better than its predecessor?

Time to lay it all on the table and talk about it ... coz by this time next year we've seen the second Tomb Raider-movie, the third Terminator-movie, the second & third Matrix-movie, the second Lord of the Rings-movie (with the third in sight) and we've probably ended the sixth Tomb Raider-game already.

It's sequel time, people!

DaveJ
27th Oct 2002, 14:58
'From Russia with Love'.
Followed by 'Goldfinger'.

They cemented the foundation.

Godfather
27th Oct 2002, 21:46
I personally thought that the first two Bond-movies (although probably important for the entire series) were pretty weak though and it was "Goldfinger" (still and most likely always the best of the entire James Bond-series) which came out as the very first great action-movie. But ... I didn't live to see the release of the first two Bond-movies, so God knows what kind of mass-hysteria it brought along coz it was such a new way of showing action scenes. :rolleyes:

All I'm saying is that of all Bond-movies the first two are easily overshadowed by Goldfinger. :o

DaveJ
28th Oct 2002, 08:50
Thats easy to say from a modern perspective.

But take yourself back to 1962 and look at the world around you, and the style of films being made at the time....do a little reading on the cultural impact those first two Bond movies had on the world...the whole world, even Russia in the midst of the Cold War.

Then you will start to appreciate their brilliance, when viewed in the proper context as I intended.

Goldfinger started to pave the way for a jokier, more gadget reliant Bond that wasn't always a good thing.

But Guy Hamilton's contribution to the series and its history is enormous, too.


FYI: the movies that experts repeatedly choose as the best Bond films ever are "From Russia With Love", "Goldfinger" and "OHMSS". All for different reasons.

the_internet_king
28th Oct 2002, 11:15
INDIANA JONES 2 + 3i love that film it is defintaly the best sequal then i would say star wars and then tr 2 (did you kow there making a new indiana jones film?)

THE True Lara
28th Oct 2002, 11:28
they've been making a new Indianna Jones film for the past 4 years! :rolleyes:

DaveJ
28th Oct 2002, 11:36
Harrison Ford's current stance is that it will never happen.

But after his latest film flopped...he may re-consider.

Xcom
28th Oct 2002, 11:38
Originally posted by DaveJ
even Russia in the midst of the Cold War

I find it hard to believe. Nobody (and I mean common people) has ever heard of it back then.

THE True Lara
28th Oct 2002, 11:57
Originally posted by DaveJ
Harrison Ford's current stance is that it will never happen.

But after his latest film flopped...he may re-consider.
Weird, I read a while back that Spielburg was all optimism that it would still happen. Give me 2 mins, and I'll find the bit I tore out.

the_internet_king
28th Oct 2002, 11:57
http://www.theraider.net/films/indy4/index.php (-:

THE True Lara
28th Oct 2002, 12:04
http://members.lycos.co.uk/rsid/ford.jpeg

THE True Lara
28th Oct 2002, 12:06
Willie Scott is back!?!
How'd that happen?

DaveJ
28th Oct 2002, 12:19
Spielberg married her.

the_internet_king
28th Oct 2002, 12:24
shes the woman on the 2nd indy film isnt she the on who dosnt like getting dirty?:confused:

THE True Lara
28th Oct 2002, 16:29
hates bugs, pours expensive perfume over elephants, yep that's the girl!

the_internet_king
28th Oct 2002, 19:17
lol :)

Godfather
28th Oct 2002, 20:08
Originally posted by DaveJ
FYI: the movies that experts repeatedly choose as the best Bond films ever are "From Russia With Love", "Goldfinger" and "OHMSS". All for different reasons.

DaveJ, you are right about the modern perspective-thingy, but I'd like to point out something else here. Maybe the reason why I don't really like "From Russia with love" is because it shamelessly copies that "plane with bad people dives towards our hero and tries to kill him"-action scene that was first used in North by Northwest of Alfred Psycho-Birds (if I use his real last name, it'll only be ***ed). It's not a bad movie, but that stupid way of copying a scene really bugged me. :(

Also, there's a lack of action ... but as you've said to me: ever since "Goldfinger" they made the James Bond-films more commercial. These days James Bond-films are all about one thing: action! I wish they could come up with some deeper and darker storyline (like the one from ... err ... "From Russia with love", e.g. :D), no?

DaveJ
28th Oct 2002, 20:15
From Russia With Love....written in 1957.

North By North West....released in 1959.


Who copied who?

Hitch**** was a Fleming fan, you know.....

THE True Lara
28th Oct 2002, 21:14
it's imaterial though, as they're both great films, both for different reasons.

Godfather
28th Oct 2002, 23:08
Originally posted by DaveJ
From Russia With Love....written in 1957.

North By North West....released in 1959.


Who copied who?

Hitch**** was a Fleming fan, you know.....

That HitchcOck was a Fleming fan ... this could be true; I don't know that. But you might wanna check your resources before correcting me, DaveJ! ;)

Click and find out:
http://us.imdb.com/Details?0053125
http://us.imdb.com/Details?0057076

THE True Lara
28th Oct 2002, 23:15
Written before NbNW was made, Godfather.
From Russia with love was a book first before being made into a film that was released 6 years later!
What we're trying to say here is that it's plausible that Hitchcock read From Russia with love after it was published in 1957, was inspired by it, made NbNW in 1959, and then later, FRwL was made into a film in 1963.

Clear?

DaveJ
29th Oct 2002, 08:12
Couldn't have put it better myself...thank you daughter...you get a pocket money increase...use it wisely....


Hitch**** was a favourite strong contender to direct the first few Bond films...but was sadly tied up on his own movies.
And since Terence Young was personally responsible for establishing Bond's style and dress-sense in those early movies, maybe its no bad thing.

THE True Lara
29th Oct 2002, 08:36
*blush* thank you daddy!

hummm... use it wisely..... Oh! you mean buy more Bond Films! ;)

DaveJ
29th Oct 2002, 08:48
Buy one, get one free in a week or so....
;)

Since your Daddy mis-used his Force Powers....the least I can do is teach good fiscal policies....

THE True Lara
29th Oct 2002, 08:53
I learn only from you now, oh great one.

*bows lowly*

DaveJ
29th Oct 2002, 08:57
I wonder if there were Irish or Spanish Jedi?
Like Paddy Wan, and Don Wan?

THE True Lara
29th Oct 2002, 09:00
I doubt Jedi Don Wan would last long in such an order.....

DaveJ
29th Oct 2002, 09:09
True...he'd have to slope off for an Obi Wan Kenobi....

rocconorth
2nd Nov 2002, 09:45
"Empire" without a doubt. IMHO the only sequel of any movie that far surpassed the original and truly made the series the classic that it is today. What... you guys didn't know that "Empire of the Sun" was a sequel?:p

Godfather
3rd Nov 2002, 00:20
Personally, I don't think there is one sequel which is truly better than its original. On the other hand, Randy in Scream 2 is all wrong when he says that sequels by definition are really bad. There have been many fantastic sequels made that came awfully close to their original, but actually better?

If there is such a thing as a sequellwhich is better than the original, the only one (so far) that really does that job to me is the film Aliens. Don't get me wrong though: Alien is just as perfect as its sequel, but in the end I'll choose for the one which has a few more interesting characters in it.

As for The Godfather part II ... it's probably thé best sequel ever made, but the first one is better! :p
As for Terminator 2 ... The terminator is darker and has a better and more frightening atmosphere.
As for Star Wars - episode V, the original Star Wars is a tad better ... simply because that one was made first. :D
As for Scream 2, Scream is a tad better ... simply because that one was made first.

And I could continue for a little longer, but I would be surprised to see that someone would take the time to read this entire thread o' mine through, so ... [nothing more to say]

:(

DaveJ
3rd Nov 2002, 09:02
I agree with Randy.

As much as I enjoyed 'Aliens' and 'T2' I will always prefer the originals for

a: getting there first

b: not being OTT hardware movies

and c: hiding well the fact that they were individually derivative and plagiaristic.

Hence I stand by my original statement that the only sequels that repeatedly (but not consitently) better the original are the Bond movies.

whitemetal
3rd Nov 2002, 10:35
Except for the Bond movies which Roger More appeared as 007,
i always see him as The Saint and couldn't get my head around that, he just isn't a 007.

DaveJ
3rd Nov 2002, 10:40
I agree...however, the 70's were a strange time for spy movies...the style of the 60's Bond movies would obviously no longer work, so Moore's Bond had to re-invent the formula for a new decade and new tastes.

Although he's my least favourite Bond, he did a good job of keeping the series going...and I do have a sly liking for "The Spy Who Loved Me"...the first Bond movie I ever saw at the cinema.

rocconorth
3rd Nov 2002, 10:44
Originally posted by DaveJ
I agree with Randy.

As much as I enjoyed 'Aliens' and 'T2' I will always prefer the originals for

a: getting there first

b: not being OTT hardware movies

and c: hiding well the fact that they were individually derivative and plagiaristic.

Hence I stand by my original statement that the only sequels that repeatedly (but not consitently) better the original are the Bond movies.

As per usual, I think you make very good points DaveJ. However, I regard to the Bond movies...can you really consider them sequels? I guess by definition they are because they follow the "original", but I always thought of a sequel as kind of picking up where the last movie left off. That is to say that a true sequel requires some knowledge of the original to fully understand it. With that being said, I don't really consider the Bond movies "sequels" per se. I would call them "series movies". That is individual movies that are part of an ongoing series based on the same character. The movies based on the Tom Clancy novels featuring Jack Ryan...ie "The Hunt For Red October, Patriot Games,etc..fall into this catergory as well. These movies can be watched in of itself without any knowledge of their former incarnations. So while I agree with you that some of the Bond movies are be better than earlier one's...I for one do not think they adhere to the rules of what a true sequel really is.

whitemetal
3rd Nov 2002, 10:57
I'm obviously older than you DaveJ, i saw Dr No & From Russia with love when they were still showing double feature films as one session in cinemas. I agree the Moore films were good action flicks but i did feel at the time that James Bond had run it's time but Brosnon as 007 fits like a glove and i'm a bond addict once more, can't wait for DAD.

DaveJ
3rd Nov 2002, 13:29
I agree with you both - one way or another!
LOL!

I did see a double bill of "OHMSS/Diamonds Are Forever" which may have been put together after "Spy..." but I'm not sure.

I was 12 when "The Spy who Loved Me" was released....same year as Star Wars!

dhama
3rd Nov 2002, 17:29
The last time I saw a good sequel, was the second time I won a tenner on the lottery :D

But if it has to be a film sequel, it has to be Die hard 2, but having said that, Die Hard 3 was total..... well I think you know what i'm saying. ;)

DaveJ
3rd Nov 2002, 18:38
I do indeed.

Compared to Die Hard 2, Die Hard 3 is total genius.

Godfather
4th Nov 2002, 23:09
Originally posted by DaveJ
I do indeed.

Compared to Die Hard 2, Die Hard 3 is total genius.

... and Die Hard 4 is on its way. :rolleyes:

I too thought that 2 was the weakest one ... not bad: but nothing special.

Mgardiner
9th Nov 2002, 22:36
Personally I dont think Tomb Raider 2 should be up there, all the others are movies then you have 1 video games...Anyways I voted for Aliens. Man that movie was sweet.