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View Full Version : Ruins of Originia Series (FM1-4) (T2) 207 MB Release



YcatX
27th Oct 2002, 04:51
I'm about to release my series kick-off...

I posted about it before, but I had to log-on as new... Odd... I guess I get deleted if I don't constantly post?

Is any one interested?

Sneak
27th Oct 2002, 05:50
I am for sure. ;) Where are you gonna Host it? :)

Huntress
27th Oct 2002, 06:22
Hi YcatX..nice to see you again :) As far as posting...no I don't believe you would lose your registration because of not posting often..must be some other reason it happened? However, really glad to see your FM's are ready and I too am interested in where we can get them downloaded from? Cheap Missions I hope..of course it'll take me forever, LOL but I'll be ready when you are! Ta and Good Hunting!

YcatX
27th Oct 2002, 14:26
Here are the two links I know of so far:

http://thief.math.uh.edu/missions/Ruins_Originia_v1.zip

or

(Other site down...)

Enjoy..

Things to do in the mission: Play the two "record players" in the bar for an interesting surprise...

BrokenArts
27th Oct 2002, 15:06
I'll give it another go YcatX. ;) Final release, looking forward to it. It was fun, and a definite challenge to beta-test this monster package. Think outside the box on this one folks. One of my favorite aspects of your series, was the choice of music, loved it!
Have fun people. :cool:

YcatX
27th Oct 2002, 15:34
"Old tymers" didn't like it, others thought it added more to the mission then the OMs. I personally like it, and I'm going to have a concert in FM5, and debating on having 3 different songs and events depending on the difficulty... FM5 will have the most songs, with the coin polisher song... :p

Yea.. As BrokenArts mentioned, Don't thinks of these as like the OM... There are things you can do in mine that you would NEVER thing of doing in the OMs.. (Leap of Faiths for example: I'm going to have 4 or 5 by the end of the series...)

BrokenArts
27th Oct 2002, 15:53
YcatX, on some of this *stuff* is just plain TWISTED! :p :eek: A few puzzles that well, uh, HA! And AI, oh just a *few* in some spots, ha, AI on Steroids. Kick ass fight scene in one area. Your new AI were very cool. Leap of Faith.....w00t??? :D

Hey! Concert, are we all invited? :p

YcatX
27th Oct 2002, 16:02
I don't know if you made it to the cutscene?

You did get past the Volcano FM didn't you?

In a later mission I'm going to have one of the those classic chase scenes were the Heros is chased by countless foe, and is chased off a cliff...

Nightwalker
27th Oct 2002, 21:17
This is a fascinating and highly original FM! I'm only partway through the first mission, but I'm absolutely amazed at the things I'm seeing. Be warned, it's very hard, though. I'm playing on Normal and still finding it quite difficult to get through in parts. Yametha has written a beautiful walkthrough for it, too. I played for 2 hours then went and checked the walkthrough for that part to see what I missed (some, but not as much as I expected). It's great fun so far. Peter, you'd like this one. It's right up your alley! :D

YcatX
27th Oct 2002, 21:29
And you haven't even gotten to strange parts yet... Maybe I should NOT make the players cross the Ethreal Vortex in the Pit of Everfall on Difficulty0... Its.. um... difficult... Maybe still way too difficult...

It was much eaiser in the T1 engine: You could bounce on rope arrows like they were diving boards..

In T2: You die on impact and your body gets slammed around the room side ways...

(Still that worked much better than my skii-jump idea... Problem was no matter how gentle I made the slope Garrett would get killed and then his unconcious corpse would BOUNCE around the walls of the caverns... Kinda funny, but very.. NOT working.. Still I improvised...)

BTW: I hope the seed worked like it should... I cannot play it again or I'll scream.. really...

Peter_Smith
29th Oct 2002, 03:13
Hey YcatX,

I downloaded your mission, and it would not install. It said backing up old files, or something like that. and then Darkloader 4.1 hung while compressing "credits.avi". It happened several times, starting from different Thief 2 FM's. Do I need to download it again?

Vanguard
29th Oct 2002, 03:53
The same thing happened to me. Darkloader looked like it got stuck on credits.avi. I went to heat up some coffee, get a snack, read me e-mail, and came back and it had gotten further. Uncompressed the files take up almost 300 MB. The zip/unzip code used in Darkloader is probably a non-commercial grade product so it probably doesn't work well with big .zip files.

Nightwalker
29th Oct 2002, 04:23
It worked fine for me! It took a while to install, but not too long. Probably a couple of minutes or so.

Huntress
29th Oct 2002, 15:43
I'm happy to report my game installed without any problem either :) My only hiccup was when the AVI got about halfway, my darn screen froze...so I rebooted and then it played through without further ado. Maybe I should have reset the machine first after installing it..before actually playing it? I dunno...but am playing the game now and "what a game"! :) Really an outstanding job so far as I can tell. Architecture is really done very well...and although some spots were a little difficult to figure out...(I died) LOL but on the reload took another method and got it done.

Ha, ha...I've never killed so many guards in one game and still got a long way to go! I've been in and out of some of the areas and good thing I did go the way I did as I found more weapons I didn't catch the first time...and I used that creature to help fend off one of the guards on the second visit. Having ran into "it" the first time, I used it to my advantage :D The guard killed it as it turned out and I started to come out of my hiding place...but he ran off for help so I went into "her" den and found some helpers :) Then going back across the way and into the room I had first gone into before (she killed me then)...I found some more goodies. These will really help me now when I get back into the Hammer/Guard bldg again :) I also died in there once and "saw" what awaits me upstairs :eek: LOL This is some kindof mission that's for sure...but I sure hope I find some more health potions. I bought two and have used them...and I've found a little food here and there but don't have much in my pack. I'm playing on "Normal" just for anyones info.

I must tell you about one of my escapdes in this game as I thought it was rather clever of me LOL
I had shot the rope into the beam in that well to come up into Hammer/guard area...got up inside but when I tried to start across the room, I got busted. So then a brainstorm struck my little noggin...I decided after getting up the second time I'd get over by the Bot and hide...but a guard got suspcious anyway and started to come in...so I got over to the hole and dropped down...then my idea took fruit :D I got my gas arrow ready and started jumping up and down on that ledge to try and get the guards to come over to investigate...well I suckered two of them...as they got near the hole where I could see them (this was two different times of course) I then shot my arrow up at him and nitety nite guard(s). That made it easier for me then to start going through the rooms etc. since not so many were patrolling in my hallway! So after making some rounds of several of the rooms...I ended up going back outside and that's when I did my deed of going back to the Old Mining town(?) whatever. But then another break occured and got rid of two more guards who restarted their patrols in and around. Now I need to get rid of four more on the outside..two each on two doorways..so I can check those carts! Money, money, money...makes the world go round, the world go round...la la la...

So that's my little tale so far in the Mines...but I haven't even really gotten there yet, LOL Got my map though and it sure is going to be a "Lonnngggg" journey! Ta and Good Hunting!

YcatX
29th Oct 2002, 21:56
There are two super-healing potions in the town, and the Margorthian Fish help Hitpoints too...

You can kill them and eat them... (Look in the cellar under the bar...)

Geez... yep you seen the TIP of the iceburg...

On expert you are not allowed to kill, which makes it really interesting... And if you loot all the keys, you can make the guards take the long way around, while luring all of them to thier doom with the other "team"... BTW: The Buglady is on the same team as the Guildmembers...

Did you start taking out the guards, or did the assassins start the fight... Different things can happen depending on what happens first. Many of the guards are cowards (Wouldn't you be if you were in Margroth?)

I guess no one made it to Guilded Rivalry yet, eh? But that is totally understandable, with the sheer size of it, and Mines of Margroth is only 1/3 of the total size of the actual Ruins that are part of the Mines of Margroth... (I had to break it into 3 parts, and the last one was only supposed to be a straight tunnel, but I couldn't have a tunnels 20x2000x10, so I destroyed that part with the help of Volcanic activity and Burricks, and Artic Conditions.. :) (Ahhhh, isn't life grand?)

RicknMel
29th Oct 2002, 22:20
Wow...sounds fantastic!
But...the site must be very busy...
I don't pay for cable access to wait 2-4 hours (read that "FOREVER") :p for a slow download. I'll try again later. :(

YcatX
29th Oct 2002, 22:26
I just luck to get the space... I would have to remove my website, and put more files on other locations, cause I only payed for 200MB... and my AVIs, and images take a big chunk of it...

Wow... My first completed and fully-functional FM... I wonder how many hits it had?

:cool:

Vanguard
29th Oct 2002, 22:43
I'm trying to ghost the first part, Mines of Margroth. I didn't realize at the beginning that Garrett is disguised as a miner so he doesn't have to sneak past the full helmeted guards at the entrance to the town. Does the war only start between enemy AIs if I alert an AI with a drawn weapon? I would wander around town for a long time and there was no melee. If I was spotted with a weapon, sometime later the massacre would start.

When I snatch the super health potions, a sound byte plays like Garrett has taken a swallow. Although I'm not allowed to drink health potions when ghosting (because I'm also not allowed to take damage), I still take potions because they can be used to stack atop each other to elevate myself should something be a bit high off the floor. I don't recall that my health points changed. Does that drink sound when Garrett picks up a super health potion actually up his health points? Or is it a placebo sound byte?

Because I'm ghosting, I can't use the fire arrows in the church to get into the inner temple area (with the fire elementals). But then I don't need 40 fire arrows when ghosting - except later I find that you require me to blast open doors in the Tricks area to get into a square room with 3 doors and a pirate wood chest inside. I'll have to skip that loot when ghosting. Getting into the Tricks area was a bust, anyway, because I had to smash the glass window/door to get in. Is there a key? It isn't pickable.

Across from this room is another with blue tiled walls and floors and where I find the mana seed (which looks like a frogbeast egg). What do I do with the mana seed? I found no writings that indicate what it is for.

I haven't found the skull needed to open the gate to the tornado chamber. Do I need a skull? I've shot every type of arrow into the bulleye targets with no result. I can't get through the other openings: one won't let me jump and mantle up onto its lower edge and the other seems to actually have a barrier against Garrett although weapons can shoot out okay (this is the one you get to from the tunnel from the garden).

I'm still trying to figure out what the mana seed is for and how to get into the tornado chamber (which I presume is required for me to continue the mission since I haven't found Bantar yet).

Huntress
29th Oct 2002, 22:54
Hi there YcatX...yea I'm having a time of it around your upper area of Margroth :D I'm not sure how to answer your question of battle but so far I have done the battles with the guards...except for the one I mentioned above with the buglady...and I found three guards dead in a room near hers with some arrows earlier on my first run inside :) Super health...where please? On the carts? I've only found one bread loaf so far and haven't really been able to search all the rest...have to get rid of the other guards outside first :D Yes, I was downstairs in that celler and saw the two fish in water but didn't shoot them...tried just to frob them but that wouldn't work and now one of them is stuck in the wall :eek: LOL I did get the other fish on tables/kitchens and cheese, cucmbers etc. but I sure could use those health potions!

Not quite sure how the Guild members and that buglady fit in...I have read a couple of scrolls and guess they must also be enemies..since she attacked me originally. I did manage to get the two safes open with pickpocking that one member from behind outside his window :) Guess that's the way it was meant to be done...I dunno but it worked, LOL I do kindof understand they are after the same guy I am I think? EDIT: OK, on rereading your clue..I think I understand now...but then I've seen Guards go inside that Pub and nothing seems to be happening to them? And Vanguard...you mean I got this all wrong on entering in this area...? OH NOOOO! I could have walked around freely...? OH geez....all that for nothing that I've done so far...what a bummer :( END EDIT...

I do have the Sunburst and not sure where I'm supposed to use it yet...I know that locked door by the buglady area must either open from the inside, after I get the right key I guess or else blow it up? Guess I'll need to get more playtime in to see how that developes first :) Yes, this is definately a different Garrett...but it's cool...there's still a lot of stealthyness that has to be done along the way even though there seems to be more killing. AND NO KILLING ON EXPERT...LOL Good Luck!!!! Ta and Good Hunting!

Huntress
30th Oct 2002, 00:15
HA HA HA...AN UPDATE: I decided to try your method Vanguard when reloading my game...I was outside and decided to walk around a bit and check all the carts...only found two flares on one cart...but when I tried to walk near the two guards at the Hammer/guard bldg...they didn't like it...and even though I tried running a bit I didn't do it very well and died :( So reloading again, I just got the flares and creeped by the one guard at the Town gate...and what to my surprise but a lot of dead bodies :D That must have been the melee you guys have been talking about but I missed it...however alls well that ends well. Got the bodies for a few items and then put out the torch in the Guild Room as I saw there was a third chest I missed seeing through the window. I then got inside and got the gem and the SUPER HEALING POTION...TADA! Then hit the bonaza on the table near guard! Oh boy...am I set now. Just wish I knew where that second potion was? I started continuing around a different way than I had gone before but had to turn back because of two guards in a room I saw when I opened the door and way around the other side was their window and a very lighted hallway where I'm sure I would have been spotted :(

Just thought I take a short break to bring you up on my adventure and things are looking up so far :) Tally Hoooo ho ho :D Ta and Good Hunting!

YcatX
30th Oct 2002, 00:15
Originally posted by Vanguard
I'm trying to ghost the first part, Mines of Margroth. I didn't realize at the beginning that Garrett is disguised as a miner so he doesn't have to sneak past the full helmeted guards at the entrance to the town. Does the war only start between enemy AIs if I alert an AI with a drawn weapon? I would wander around town for a long time and there was no melee. If I was spotted with a weapon, sometime later the massacre would start.

Thats one way to get the action started... Some AI will react to stolen objects... Some are triggered when you reach a point (The Assassin conversation)

When I snatch the super health potions, a sound byte plays like Garrett has taken a swallow. Although I'm not allowed to drink health potions when ghosting (because I'm also not allowed to take damage), I still take potions because they can be used to stack atop each other to elevate myself should something be a bit high off the floor. I don't recall that my health points changed. Does that drink sound when Garrett picks up a super health potion actually up his health points? Or is it a placebo sound byte?

A side-effect from doubling the script call.. When you pick it up for some reason it plays the "drink" sound.. Which gets quite a reaction from people :)

Because I'm ghosting, I can't use the fire arrows in the church to get into the inner temple area (with the fire elementals). But then I don't need 40 fire arrows when ghosting - except later I find that you require me to blast open doors in the Tricks area to get into a square room with 3 doors and a pirate wood chest inside. I'll have to skip that loot when ghosting. Getting into the Tricks area was a bust, anyway, because I had to smash the glass window/door to get in. Is there a key? It isn't pickable.

Well... All the ammo carry-over until FM4, so if you end with 20 arrows in Guilded Rivalry, you will start with 20 arrows. If you have 0 arrows, you will start with 0 arrows... You can wack those door with a few strong wacks. Did you like the reversed lock? (That part of the Ruins are called TRICKS) Original Idea was it was a mirror not a window, with triggered events with crashed the engine so I cut them out, and left a window instead to save my mind.. No, I just like breaking things...

Across from this room is another with blue tiled walls and floors and where I find the mana seed (which looks like a frogbeast egg). What do I do with the mana seed? I found no writings that indicate what it is for.

Mana seed = more loot... But you will have to use 4 rope arrows and one holywater arrow with it to get all of the loot. Side loot, like the Upper Mines.. I guess you haven't used fire arrows on some rocks?

I haven't found the skull needed to open the gate to the tornado chamber. Do I need a skull? I've shot every type of arrow into the bulleye targets with no result. I can't get through the other openings: one won't let me jump and mantle up onto its lower edge and the other seems to actually have a barrier against Garrett although weapons can shoot out okay (this is the one you get to from the tunnel from the garden).

Just means you gota kill, Bantar.. Sorry if that spoils your Ghosting... You still got a long way. You need to use rope arrows the Pit of Everfall... Did you get all the maps?

I'm still trying to figure out what the mana seed is for and how to get into the tornado chamber (which I presume is required for me to continue the mission since I haven't found Bantar yet).

No thats to the exit room...and the next mission

YcatX
30th Oct 2002, 00:24
Originally posted by Huntress
HA HA HA...AN UPDATE: I decided to try your method Vanguard when reloading my game...I was outside and decided to walk around a bit and check all the carts...only found two flares on one cart...but when I tried to walk near the two guards at the Hammer/guard bldg...they didn't like it...and even though I tried running a bit I didn't do it very well and died :(

Well... The guards don't like the hired hands in the HQ...

So reloading again, I just got the flares and creeped by the one guard at the Town gate...and what to my surprise but a lot of dead bodies :D That must have been the melee you guys have been talking about but I missed it...however alls well that ends well. Got the bodies for a few items and then put out the torch in the Guild Room as I saw there was a third chest I missed seeing through the window. I then got inside and got the gem and the SUPER HEALING POTION...TADA! Then hit the bonaza on the table near guard! Oh boy...am I set now. Just wish I knew where that second potion was? I started continuing around a different way than I had gone before but had to turn back because of two guards in a room I saw when I opened the door and way around the other side was their window and a very lighted hallway where I'm sure I would have been spotted :(

Oh... so you haven't been upstairs yet? Or has all hell-broken-loose yet?

Just thought I take a short break to bring you up on my adventure and things are looking up so far :) Tally Hoooo ho ho :D Ta and Good Hunting!

Huntress
30th Oct 2002, 00:26
While I was typing my update above your reply to Vanguard I saw this and would you please explain a little further what you mean by this:

"Mana seed = more loot... But you will have to use 4 rope arrows and one holywater arrow with it to get all of the loot. Side loot, like the Upper Mines.. I guess you haven't used fire arrows on some rocks?"

How does this work and what rocks to use fire arrows on, where? This is quite confusing...Thanks in advance :) Ta and Good Hunting!

YcatX
30th Oct 2002, 00:38
Get out of the Box....
:p


Some Rocks respond to fire sources.

As for the Mana Seed:
It can be opened too with special arrows.

You need to fire 4 arrows to cross pits, and this all takes place in the room with the two attacking wisps...

It has no bearing with the storyline, just more loot, (and 4 gas-arrows)

Huntress
30th Oct 2002, 05:27
Just another little update...OK already...so I found that pretty blue rock earlier and had carted it to the ledge I dropped down from and fell into the water....so I took that idea about breaking rocks...and whoola got a pretty Engergized Blue Rock...so now what? What the heck is that supposed to do? I also found the second Super P on this second pass through..with all the dead guards..was a bit easier to get into certain places I would have had trouble before :) I also went back down to celler and speared one fish...the other one that was stuck in the wall I couldn't do anything with.

So I got upstairs and managed everything without incident and all four Hammers are sleeping quietly :D Now I'm down in the tunnel with the Fire Elementals :eek: and boy I don't know how I'm going to get this done right now...seeing as the position I'm in and the angle they are passing my little hole ;) So regardless of how I may be playing...I'm moving right along even if I seem to be in "the box" I've managed to work my way out eventually :D

Ta and Good Hunting!

ps: I really think your FM is very good YcatX and really glad I took all 19 hours or so to get it! Thanks for some neat play. Of course I'll probably be screaming for help as I get more into it...but for now all systems are go!

YcatX
30th Oct 2002, 14:12
Energized Coal Crystals = are hightly unstable unions of Margorthian Crystal and coal. It is Highly explosive, and workes great for use with mines and other explosives... (Not as powerful as Explosive Devices)..

I use them when I'm playing tag with the Ghouls in the Merchants Section of the Catacombs...

Peter_Smith
30th Oct 2002, 15:25
YcatX,

I finally installed it. The long wait after credits.avi was backed up was unexpected and misleading. It looked like my computer had crashed.

Very cool mission. I am just getting started, I suspect. I have made it into the hammer building.

Vanguard
30th Oct 2002, 18:41
Rocks and fire arrows? Does the player ever get a clue about the chemically unstable rocks? Are you talking about the blue geode rocks? I found one back in the town. Sometimes when blowing up the rocks blocking the mine passage, a blue geode appears. Sometimes not. Guess I never thought of hitting rocks with fire arrows since they usually do almost no damage, if any, on walls, bricks, and regular rocks. Mines usually move things around, however, and that's what I used. The sunburst bomb wasn't nearly as effective as a mine.

There is a passage that has collapsed and you can open using explosives. In fact, there's a couple mines next to a mining cart as you head up that tunnel to the passage (where the burricks are). If instead I head through the crypts and use the stairs which come up into an iced stairs room and past the Tricks entrance, you're in the mines and can get to the lava-ice room where you use the rope arrows to cross over. So I can prevent a ghost bust by not blowing up those rocks. But I haven't managed to get through the iced stair room because a large wisp is stuck there inside the recess for the first set of steps when going up.

Is Bantar identified? I've picked up lots of bodies and all say "unconcious body" or "corpse".

I was in the shadow in the weapons room in the town when I lifted one of the items off the table with weapons. Will that cause the war? I haven't heard the assassin conversation. Since they appear to come out of the room on the catwalk between the bar and kitchen, I suspect that's where I'll hear the conversation. I'll probably have to run like he<i></i>ll to hide before the conversation ends so I don't get assassinated, too, since I'm supposedly disguised as a miner and I saw a scroll that said someone ordered the town wiped out.

Reverse lock? Is this in reference to the window-door to get into the Tricks area? So is there a way to get into the Tricks area without smashing the glass? (Just answer Yes without details if there is since I'd like to discover how to do it myself.)

Besides the front door into the barracks & church, is there another way into the barracks & church? I know about the sewers but I recall that I had to smash boards at the town end of the sewers to get in them. Any other way in? (If yes, just say yes without giving away the other route.)

I got the maps that were in the barracks-church building. Are there others? There's one map that isn't identified and I don't know what it is for.

I've shot rope arrows into each bullseye target in the tornado chamber but I cannot get to them. One passage is blocked by the gate that says I need a skull. The other opening is the tunnel from the garden (next to the room with the primal apebeasts with dart-shooting blow pipes). The other has a few steps to the opening (which is across from the gated passage) where you get in by pivoting the big metal wall. (What was the reason for the semi-invisible spider since it gets trapped behind the wall? I found nothing there that it was protecting.)

Killing Bantar is not a ghost bust if there is an objective that tells you to kill him (unless Clayman's revising of the ghost rules eliminates ghost-violating objectives so the player is no longer exempt from committing unghostlike actions). In the room with small wisps (that fire at you with ineffective light blasts) and primal apebeasts with blowguns, I can see gas arrows in recesses in the ceiling. In one of those recesses, I did manage to get a rope arrow to stick into something but the rope wouldn't drop far enough for me to reach it. I shot fire arrows up there and could momentarily see what looks to be a hollowed passage up there. So I suspect there still another level that I haven't gotten to. Maybe that unidentified map is the clue.

I found the lone crypt in a room with thin plaisley colored columns (and the ledge where you find a tunnel to some loot with a mine trap although there is no mine). There are spiders in that room. I think it is alongside the merchant's crypt room. I've hunted around but can't find anything to do with this crypt but being separated and so ornate and lit up that I figure it just has to be something special. Is it special? God, what I would give for a simple crowbar. Who needs a sword. Give me a crowbar in T3!

This is turning out to be a REALLY FUN mission -- and it's only the first part of four! Woo hoo!

BrokenArts
30th Oct 2002, 18:57
Be sure to explore everywhere for those Geode Blue Rocks. ;) You'll find a few of them. Aren't they purdy. :p

Huntress
30th Oct 2002, 19:16
OK got the fire elementals cleared and goodies for my loot pouch :)...at this point I have about 3880...but it says in my objectives I shouldn't leave without 4000...I assume that means what I can also collect in the mines, etc.? However, I am having a problem with how to get the eye in the vault? When I first approached the vault it spit out somekind of magical stuff at me but didn't seem to harm me (maybe cause I got out of the way a bit) and then it dissapeared and I got inside...but it's up high in a corner near the shelves. I can't seem to frob it...and I've also used my Blue rock to seemingly contain it's magic stuff? So how do I get it? Spooky sounds around there...like the undead :D and it's laughing at me...maybe cause I can't figure out how to capture it? LOL So anyone that can tell me in the meantime what to do I would appreciate it so I can continue on :) Ta and Good Hunting!

YcatX
30th Oct 2002, 22:01
Originally posted by Vanguard
Rocks and fire arrows? Does the player ever get a clue about the chemically unstable rocks?

Yea... There should be a scroll in the mines...

Are you talking about the blue geode rocks? I found one back in the town. Sometimes when blowing up the rocks blocking the mine passage, a blue geode appears. Sometimes not. Guess I never thought of hitting rocks with fire arrows since they usually do almost no damage, if any, on walls, bricks, and regular rocks.

Yea.. And some boulders that are "not important" can also yield a crystal...

Mines usually move things around, however, and that's what I used. The sunburst bomb wasn't nearly as effective as a mine.

The explosive device(s) have only on game related purpose. Mines and flashbombs are my favorite

There is a passage that has collapsed and you can open using explosives. In fact, there's a couple mines next to a mining cart as you head up that tunnel to the passage (where the burricks are). If instead I head through the crypts and use the stairs which come up into an iced stairs room and past the Tricks entrance, you're in the mines and can get to the lava-ice room where you use the rope arrows to cross over. So I can prevent a ghost bust by not blowing up those rocks. But I haven't managed to get through the iced stair room because a large wisp is stuck there inside the recess for the first set of steps when going up.

The air elementals can get stuck on the stairs sometimes...

Is Bantar identified? I've picked up lots of bodies and all say "unconcious body" or "corpse".

Bantar's corpse is not frobable... Trust me.. You will know it when you meet him... Oh yea... Beware of the Tricksterling...Ghost past it...(unless your Rambo loaded up with Flashbombs and Holy water)

I was in the shadow in the weapons room in the town when I lifted one of the items off the table with weapons. Will that cause the war?

Yes... If any of the assassins become suspisious when the Merchants starts yelling, they will start their planned chaos. Don't worry... They arn't worried about Garrett when they start the killing... That will come AFTER they each assassinated thier targets, or stopped by melee. For example the Archer will go get the two paid-off guards, while the Swordsman will take out the town's captain, and the mage attacks the bowmen... But there is a random clause in that (the patroling guards..)

I haven't heard the assassin conversation. Since they appear to come out of the room on the catwalk between the bar and kitchen, I suspect that's where I'll hear the conversation. I'll probably have to run like he<i></i>ll to hide before the conversation ends so I don't get assassinated, too, since I'm supposedly disguised as a miner and I saw a scroll that said someone ordered the town wiped out.

Reverse lock?

The pirates chest...

Is this in reference to the window-door to get into the Tricks area? So is there a way to get into the Tricks area without smashing the glass? (Just answer Yes without details if there is since I'd like to discover how to do it myself.)

No... Must break the window...(also is a sign)

Besides the front door into the barracks & church, is there another way into the barracks & church? I know about the sewers but I recall that I had to smash boards at the town end of the sewers to get in them. Any other way in? (If yes, just say yes without giving away the other route.)

Only to ways..

I got the maps that were in the barracks-church building. Are there others? There's one map that isn't identified and I don't know what it is for.

There is one on Tank,another on Tricks, and the last is in Bantar's Throne room... Thats where you get the maps for Guilded Rivalry (The Guild Maps).. To keep the game stable, some maps are deleted when more "advanced" maps are located, and added... Also, have a self-drawing map: ShadowBurrick Lair for example is on map page 0...

I've shot rope arrows into each bullseye target in the tornado chamber but I cannot get to them. One passage is blocked by the gate that says I need a skull. The other opening is the tunnel from the garden (next to the room with the primal apebeasts with dart-shooting blow pipes).

Yep... Need at LEAST two rope arrows to cross the Pit of Everfall... (Its on a later map...) 4 if you insist on trying to cross back over... (which I strongly discourage..) Bantars spell of sealing keeps that gate there... Maybe I should have had it white and glowing (with that humming sound)... Hmmmmm

The other has a few steps to the opening (which is across from the gated passage) where you get in by pivoting the big metal wall. (What was the reason for the semi-invisible spider since it gets trapped behind the wall? I found nothing there that it was protecting.)

The wraith-spider can walk-through that "door"... It can chase you... They are very hard to see, becuase they exist on both the physical plane and the spirit plane.. You see more when I get the portals finished in the MoM Prequel: FM0: Hook Line and Sinker, and in FM9: Eye for an Eye and FM10: Crossing Over...

Killing Bantar is not a ghost bust if there is an objective that tells you to kill him (unless Clayman's revising of the ghost rules eliminates ghost-violating objectives so the player is no longer exempt from committing unghostlike actions).

How about Kill all objectives... FM3: Fire and Ice has on on Expert??

In the room with small wisps (that fire at you with ineffective light blasts) and primal apebeasts with blowguns, I can see gas arrows in recesses in the ceiling. In one of those recesses, I did manage to get a rope arrow to stick into something but the rope wouldn't drop far enough for me to reach it. I shot fire arrows up there and could momentarily see what looks to be a hollowed passage up there. So I suspect there still another level that I haven't gotten to. Maybe that unidentified map is the clue.

Any map you get adds it to your map. And that "up there" is what I was talking about before.. Have you opened the Mana Seed yet? Then jumped on what is left?

I found the lone crypt in a room with thin plaisley colored columns (and the ledge where you find a tunnel to some loot with a mine trap although there is no mine).

Invisible Mines... you gotta love them... They make excellent traps that are disarmable... Like Indiana Jones, tapping around the floor ever-so-slowly creeping across the floor.. Tapping and loose stones.. But as Yametha pointed out.. You can reveal them with a "wave" of your magic that you should already have... If you haven't discovered it yet... You are going to be toast when dealing with the Shadowbeasts... They DON'T play around at all, and you won't see them comming.. You will ONLY hear them, and when you DO see them.. It's too late.... REALLY.. Just thinking about them WIGS me out! (shiver)

There are spiders in that room. I think it is alongside the merchant's crypt room. I've hunted around but can't find anything to do with this crypt but being separated and so ornate and lit up that I figure it just has to be something special. Is it special? God, what I would give for a simple crowbar. Who needs a sword. Give me a crowbar in T3!

Just a false tomb... The real booty is beyond it..

This is turning out to be a REALLY FUN mission -- and it's only the first part of four! Woo hoo!

[b]Thanks... I have plans on completeing the series (12 FULL missions so far)...

Vanguard
31st Oct 2002, 00:08
I took the blue geode in the sewers into the Hammerite building where I energized it with a fire arrow. That alerted the AIs in there so I gassed and blackjacked them. I then went back to the town where no one was alerted to me yet. I selected the energized coal but no one reacted. I tossed it at them but it just bounced off them with no effect and no alert. I think you were pulling my leg about running around after the locals with the energized coal.

I did find a way to lift keys and arrows from the guards in town and also get all the goodies in the weapons room - except the big gold nugget. Even when AIs are friendly, they get sensitized to your presence when they spot you. So I doused the torch in the back hallway and also doused the torch inside the weapons room by shooting through the back window. As the guard strolled by in the back passage, they didn't spot me so I could frob their keys and arrows. Same later when the assassins were patrolling past. It takes a minute for an AI to become unsensitized after spotting me. Since I wasn't spotted at all getting into the weapons room (and no melee yet), I could lift the keys and weapons and get the contents of the safe. However, I do get "Someone must've stole it" when I take the big gold nugget. Yet no AIs go on alert so it must be a scripted voice that doesn't change the alert attributes of the AIs (and the melee doesn't occur, either). So I'm not sure if the "Someone must've stolen it" voiceover counts as a 2nd alert and ghost bust because the AIs themselves never go on alert and the melee never occurs.

I noticed that after the melee, the french speaking assassins will trigger to run around to the back passage when I get from the sewer opening room towards the guard room. Although he doesn't see me, he seems triggered to run around that side depending on my location even though he doesn't see or hear me. I can, however, go the other way around while dousing torches.

I also had fun saving the town. Go up the wood catwalk between the kitchen and bar. When the assassin conversation begins and with no other AIs on the catwalk, hurl in some flashbombs to blind them. Them take them out with the gas arrows you find in the sewer grate. Most torches get doused with the gas, but be sure all of them are out or move the bodies into the shadows so the gals that stroll the catwalk won't see them. The town never knew what danger they were in. Just playing hero this time.

If I close the door, I can bash the planks using the blackjack and pausing for a spell between hits. This can only be done before the melee; after the melee, the assassination and turncoats are too sensitize and will hear the boards when they break. I've tried using crates, rope arrows in the crates (doesn't work), and moss atop crates in the water, and there's no way to mantle out of the sewer to get back into town. I can mantle up crates piled at the edge but when I get at the top of the mantle then I'm pushed backwards back into the water. This seems a one-way route. Once I get into the Hammerite barracks, I'm stuck because the only way out is through the front door.

This is one of the missions where it fun to play over and over to do a lot of what-if analysis.

YcatX
31st Oct 2002, 00:35
Originally posted by Vanguard
I took the blue geode in the sewers into the Hammerite building where I energized it with a fire arrow. That alerted the AIs in there so I gassed and blackjacked them. I then went back to the town where no one was alerted to me yet. I selected the energized coal but no one reacted. I tossed it at them but it just bounced off them with no effect and no alert. I think you were pulling my leg about running around after the locals with the energized coal.

What? Umm.. maybe I had a brain-fart or something. The crystals are just multi-warheads. When they explode they fire several explosions in a small area...Must use fire to make it explode (or obsidian arrows but I'm getting ahead of myself...)

I did find a way to lift keys and arrows from the guards in town and also get all the goodies in the weapons room - except the big gold nugget. Even when AIs are friendly, they get sensitized to your presence when they spot you. So I doused the torch in the back hallway and also doused the torch inside the weapons room by shooting through the back window. As the guard strolled by in the back passage, they didn't spot me so I could frob their keys and arrows. Same later when the assassins were patrolling past. It takes a minute for an AI to become unsensitized after spotting me. Since I wasn't spotted at all getting into the weapons room (and no melee yet), I could lift the keys and weapons and get the contents of the safe. However, I do get "Someone must've stole it" when I take the big gold nugget.

Yea... Getting the gold will upset the merchants regardless I'm afraid... I had to override reactions due to missing T1 script SuspisiousToTake... But override had some sorta global problem (The guard noticing would get upset, and forever ignore the player, and all other AIs would got to Level3 Alert), so I made it a conversation trigger... To keep me from going crazy trying to solve the problem... VK may have made a custom script.. Not sure... Got other irons in the fire...

Yet no AIs go on alert so it must be a scripted voice that doesn't change the alert attributes of the AIs (and the melee doesn't occur, either). So I'm not sure if the "Someone must've stolen it" voiceover counts as a 2nd alert and ghost bust because the AIs themselves never go on alert and the melee never occurs.

I noticed that after the melee, the french speaking assassins will trigger to run around to the back passage when I get from the sewer opening room towards the guard room. Although he doesn't see me, he seems triggered to run around that side depending on my location even though he doesn't see or hear me. I can, however, go the other way around while dousing torches.

I don't know why some AIs are mind-readers...

I also had fun saving the town. Go up the wood catwalk between the kitchen and bar. When the assassin conversation begins and with no other AIs on the catwalk, hurl in some flashbombs to blind them. Them take them out with the gas arrows you find in the sewer grate. Most torches get doused with the gas, but be sure all of them are out or move the bodies into the shadows so the gals that stroll the catwalk won't see them. The town never knew what danger they were in. Just playing hero this time.

I was going to make an objective that no innocents get killed, but I would really make it too hard, and spoil all the fun...

If I close the door, I can bash the planks using the blackjack and pausing for a spell between hits. This can only be done before the melee; after the melee, the assassination and turncoats are too sensitize and will hear the boards when they break. I've tried using crates, rope arrows in the crates (doesn't work), and moss atop crates in the water, and there's no way to mantle out of the sewer to get back into town. I can mantle up crates piled at the edge but when I get at the top of the mantle then I'm pushed backwards back into the water. This seems a one-way route. Once I get into the Hammerite barracks, I'm stuck because the only way out is through the front door.

This is one of the missions where it fun to play over and over to do a lot of what-if analysis.

Indeed... FM4 is almost totally non-linear.. same thing with FM3 (to a lesser extent)...

FM2 is just CRAZY.. Got quite a few talismans to collect as well as more NEW AIs... Each FM has a group of new AIs..

BTW: DID you figure out how to kill an Air Elemental?

Huntress
31st Oct 2002, 18:58
Say YcatZ...that's really interesting to read your comments in reply to Vanguard...but I sure could use a review of my question as well please? How do I capture the "Gem" in the Vault? Thank you :) Ta and Good Hunting!

YcatX
31st Oct 2002, 20:16
Originally posted by Huntress
Say YcatZ...that's really interesting to read your comments in reply to Vanguard...but I sure could use a review of my question as well please? How do I capture the "Gem" in the Vault? Thank you :) Ta and Good Hunting!

No worries... Sorry.. I thought I answered that one...

But here it is:

The gem can be killed with any weapon. Sword, blackjacks, arrows. However, it is VERY difficult to actually hit. So use area effect attacks. Fight them like you would fight a wisp. Shoot holy water arrows above or next to it to splash it, or Fire arrows to catch it in the explosion radius.

But there is an eaiser way:
Two flashbombs should take it out...

Just make sure to pick it up... It serves more than one purpose... Also as a little preview:

That is just one of the whole set. You get to the other ones: Mythra, Zazarius, Alphadius, and Quagnali in FM4. BUT no one knows what their real purpose is. All these missions are just foreshadowing on what is going happen, and slowly building tension for the two apex/climax (I guess the first one is an anti-climax)

Huntress
1st Nov 2002, 00:17
Well I must say...even though I've been considered a person with a reasonably good imagination...I don't see how anyone could understand the relationship of a water/fire/flashbombs to be utilized as a method for capturing a "gemstone"? :confused: So what you seem to be indicating here, is that there is somekind of life form existing inside the (these) stones? Pretty far out stuff :D This would be cool if there was more of a story precurser and/or clues to expand your game plans so that they might be understood more so by the player? You of course know your plan...but I feel like your not really giving enough information to us to follow along....just MHO...but you've really got a neat idea going and I'm having a pretty good time with it overall...it's just who in a reasonable way of playing could ever have suspected these methods of playing your game regarding rock bashing/gemstone apprehensions? In this same way...it was a revelation by Vanguards post as to the disguise of Garrett as a miner to be able just to walk in? You may have indicated this somewhere but I don't recall seeing or hearing it? The intro AVI was a little difficult to understand all that was being said...so maybe it was there? I think maybe somehow if your briefing might have been a little more indicative of a more surreal/SCI-FI type of introduction, etc. might have made it more clear as to your intentions of the game/storyline? Especially..since we are more intune with Thief's timeline/story rather than to the extreme where you have/are taking it? Mind you, I think this is great...just very confusing to unravel it in the way you intend us to play it.. :) You said this was after T2...but you didn't really indicate how much after, LOL It's sortof a mixed up timeline...still not too long after T2 and yet again seems far beyond that time as well? Or maybe events long before either one? LOL

So anyway...thanks for my solution and indicator as to what lies ahead now some... :) I guess I may need to find that walkthrough Nightwalker said was done? Where can I find it actually? Maybe easier when I get stuck to check that out rather than posting here or trying to understand some of the cryptic replies between you and Vanguard :D Ta and Good Hunting!

YcatX
1st Nov 2002, 02:03
Originally posted by Huntress
Well I must say...even though I've been considered a person with a reasonably good imagination...I don't see how anyone could understand the relationship of a water/fire/flashbombs to be utilized as a method for capturing a "gemstone"? :confused:

The gem is undead-like... It gets hurt by all the same things that effect Undead... (its part of its Metaprop I designed) There was some text about it in a book in the HQ

So what you seem to be indicating here, is that there is somekind of life form existing inside the (these) stones? Pretty far out stuff :D This would be cool if there was more of a story precurser and/or clues to expand your game plans so that they might be understood more so by the player?

Apache donated the Prequel to MoM... It will talk more about the events and timeline... I'm currently working on it..

You of course know your plan...but I feel like your not really giving enough information to us to follow along....just MHO...but you've really got a neat idea going and I'm having a pretty good time with it overall...it's just who in a reasonable way of playing could ever have suspected these methods of playing your game regarding rock bashing/gemstone apprehensions?

Yea... It's like when I never knew that Flashbombs hurt undead, or Hammers could harm Haunts... Never know until you try... I admit I totally changed the boundries to a normal FM, but that is the fun of it.. Pushing the envelope as far as I can :)

In this same way...it was a revelation by Vanguards post as to the disguise of Garrett as a miner to be able just to walk in? You may have indicated this somewhere but I don't recall seeing or hearing it? The intro AVI was a little difficult to understand all that was being said...so maybe it was there?

Yep.. "...Maybe I can get in as a disgued miner..." I need to write out the script for my speeches...

I think maybe somehow if your briefing might have been a little more indicative of a more surreal/SCI-FI type of introduction, etc. might have made it more clear as to your intentions of the game/storyline?

The other AVI Briefs are MUCH MUCH different...

Especially..since we are more intune with Thief's timeline/story rather than to the extreme where you have/are taking it? Mind you, I think this is great...just very confusing to unravel it in the way you intend us to play it.. :) You said this was after T2...but you didn't really indicate how much after, LOL It's sortof a mixed up timeline...still not too long after T2 and yet again seems far beyond that time as well? Or maybe events long before either one? LOL

Well... In FM0: Hook, line and Sinker... I'm going to start Garrett in a Keeper Compound... More books will help...

So anyway...thanks for my solution and indicator as to what lies ahead now some... :) I guess I may need to find that walkthrough Nightwalker said was done? Where can I find it actually? Maybe easier when I get stuck to check that out rather than posting here or trying to understand some of the cryptic replies between you and Vanguard :D Ta and Good Hunting!

I could spell it out... I didn't want anyone get "upset" by me writing the answers directly.. I wanted people to come up with it, but obviously I think much (differently?!?) from most... Afterall, this is my first offical release... :)

Huntress
1st Nov 2002, 03:26
Yea, I guess you could say you think a little differently...but then again...really only different as it pertains to Thief FMs ;) You seem to have a knack for good Surreal/SCI-FI type stuff and that's terrific...you have certainly put a new bent into Thief and of course that's part of being a creator...bringing new stuff into the game :) It's just that for me right now it's somewhat a little difficult to come to terms with some parts of it. Other parts along the way have been reasonably easy to work out :) I just basically got started totally different than what you intended and so I have missed certain events and the way you had them planned to evolve :( Like the melee's with different factions and the "Assination" conversation, etc. I did read the scrolls which gave some info as to some of these things...but not getting the whole picture...since as you said that this was mostly non-liner gameplay...but if you do go your own way as I did...you also miss out on the way it was meant to be done. Oh well...as you said also, this is just the tip of the iceberg, so at least I have a little better understanding of where your taking this story...not to say I still won't have my problems with it, LOL, but at least I have a better forwarning :D Thanks YcatZ...I shall try to endure and prevail ;) Ta and Good Hunting!

RicknMel
1st Nov 2002, 03:59
Bummer
After all the downloading, and the 10 minutes it took Darkloader to extract everything....I finally find out that my poor widdle pc just can't handle an FM of this size. :(

At the very beginning, I get about 1 frame every 3 seconds. It gets better as I creep down the ramp, but as soon as I get around the AI, it drops back to about 1 frame a second.

I've said it before...and I'll say it again.....
I need a new computer!! :(

Sounds like a really neat FM series. I guess I'll get to see it sometime in the next year or so. :) Well...back to the only game my pc will handle anymore......PONG ;) :D :p

YcatX
1st Nov 2002, 04:07
Originally posted by RicknMel
Bummer
After all the downloading, and the 10 minutes it took Darkloader to extract everything....I finally find out that my poor widdle pc just can't handle an FM of this size. :(

At the very beginning, I get about 1 frame every 3 seconds. It gets better as I creep down the ramp, but as soon as I get around the AI, it drops back to about 1 frame a second.

I've said it before...and I'll say it again.....
I need a new computer!! :(

Sounds like a really neat FM series. I guess I'll get to see it sometime in the next year or so. :) Well...back to the only game my pc will handle anymore......PONG ;) :D :p

What is your system stats? I'm curious.. I know when it initalizes all the AI at the start of MoM, there is a slight slow-down. And that also happens when some Ambient Sounds start.

If it handles T2 it should work.. Hmmmmmm

Sneak
1st Nov 2002, 05:45
Ycatx,
I have been playing through this one tonight on Expert. What did you build here, ha? There is some wild chitum in this mission! ;)

I have Ghosted a bit but am mostly playing this as waylay 'em, KO 'em, evade 'em, and get em all wound up. Had a big time with The Haunt Gem AI. Reloaded a lot there. Kept leading the Guards in and letting them all have at it while I sat in a corner and snickered.

Noticed that you have a bit of System Shock 2 injected in this FM in many places! Yeah, saw the Rumbler again but he looked different. Sort of like a Rumbler acting, Burrick flavored, pointy handed, headless, metal skinned, malformed mechanist bot, torso wearing britches kind of thing. Ha! Had no idea what I had run into. They don't do well against Frog Beasts though! ;)

I have been everywhere I can find and all I have left for Objectives are to get the Big guys book, kill him, and find another way out.

Been through all the mine and Tomb areas including Vipers, down the Tank to get a map, up the ice stairs and all up top there, through the Tricks area, and can see the whirlwind room, been down with the burricks, the map is filled in except for blocked areas.

Haven't seen the Boss yet, can't remember his name. I think he is scared of me and is hiding hoping I will go away! lol

Am to tired to try more tonight but will look for him tomorrow. I can't find any new areas though.

Up in the Tricks section past the metal room and in the low blue area that looks like System Shock 2, there are two red rooms with open floors that can be walked on. Skull pictures in there. Do they do anything or are they for fluff? Haven't figured those out yet. Not looking for a spoiler there, just a push.

I must have missed something somewhere in my play and am running around in circles looking for it. Can't find anything new. And Whats His Face is out there somewhere lurking! :)

Thanks for the FM Ycatx!

YcatX
1st Nov 2002, 06:02
Originally posted by Sneak
Ycatx,
I have been playing through this one tonight on Expert. What did you build here, ha? There is some wild chitum in this mission! ;)

I have Ghosted a bit but am mostly playing this as waylay 'em, KO 'em, evade 'em, and get em all wound up. Had a big time with The Haunt Gem AI. Reloaded a lot there. Kept leading the Guards in and letting them all have at it while I sat in a corner and snickered.

I loved doing that... You have several ways to have everyone fight everyone else.. A total Free-for-all

Noticed that you have a bit of System Shock 2 injected in this FM in many places! Yeah, saw the Rumbler again but he looked different. Sort of like a Rumbler acting, Burrick flavored, pointy handed, headless, metal skinned, malformed mechanist bot, torso wearing britches kind of thing. Ha! Had no idea what I had run into. They don't do well against Frog Beasts though! ;)

Actually.. I never played SS2. Only Thief.. I tend to get rather obsessed playing, so I've been forced to restrict myself to building... (More productive).. Thumper gave me those Fiends. I asked him to lop off the head of a zombie, and I reskinned it. Funny thing in T1, they could track you like blood-hounds. T2 they actually see much better then T1's

I have been everywhere I can find and all I have left for Objectives are to get the Big guys book, kill him, and find another way out.

Been through all the mine and Tomb areas including Vipers, down the Tank to get a map, up the ice stairs and all up top there, through the Tricks area, and can see the whirlwind room, been down with the burricks, the map is filled in except for blocked areas.

Whoa... Good, very good.. Please note that Tank is MUCH larger then you think.. Press M and look for the Tank Level.. Page5? Anyway.. you are missin 90% of Tank, and the levels beyond Tank....

Haven't seen the Boss yet, can't remember his name. I think he is scared of me and is hiding hoping I will go away! lol

Am to tired to try more tonight but will look for him tomorrow. I can't find any new areas though.

Up in the Tricks section past the metal room and in the low blue area that looks like System Shock 2, there are two red rooms with open floors that can be walked on. Skull pictures in there. Do they do anything or are they for fluff? Haven't figured those out yet. Not looking for a spoiler there, just a push.

fluff and foreshadow... Those are deities... (One is Bane (Skull-like) and the other is Kali (bleeding face) as I recall..)

I must have missed something somewhere in my play and am running around in circles looking for it. Can't find anything new. And Whats His Face is out there somewhere lurking! :)

Lurking... watching... laughing.. Bantar is a bastard! He sounds like a cross between Karras and HIM (from power-puff girls).. Don't worry you will get enough of him to last a lifetime.. People actually enjoy killing him, like the pleasure one would feel repeatedly beating, Karras with a blackjack (on the ground and on conscious)

Thanks for the FM Ycatx!

I'm glad people are liking it.. I hate to keep saying that is just keep getting stranger... FM4 takes the cake... oh oh.. bite-lip.. Must not spill the beans.. Resistance is useless... Ack..

Sneak
1st Nov 2002, 16:43
Yeah Ycatx,
I saw the map for the Tank last night. Looks huge! I didn't seach the area there below the Hall of Heros in depth last night. When I saw the tunnels seemed closed I wondered if somehow throwing all those switches and seeing the Haunt Kids turn into lights when I Fire Arrowed them {I toasted them all} and floating off or disappearing that I may have triggered something. So I went off to see if anything had opened up or Bantar was around.

I will poke around down there some more to look for access to the Tank.

On the System Shock 2 thing, no doubt it is present in a few places. I even heard an ambient or music that sounded just like one in SS2. If you get the chance, play SS2. There was only one area in it I didn't enjoy as much as others, but still had fun with it. There are some thrills and chills in it! :)

Actually you told me something I needed to know. Was wondering if the Tank Map was for the next mission. Now I know it isn't so I will be after the Tank.


Bantar Lurking, Watching, and Laughing? I thought I was the only one doing that down there. Now he is gonna pay! ;)

YcatX
1st Nov 2002, 17:19
The Tank leads to yet another level..

From the bottom to the the top....

RicknMel
1st Nov 2002, 22:13
Originally posted by YcatX


What is your system stats? I'm curious.. I know when it initalizes all the AI at the start of MoM, there is a slight slow-down. And that also happens when some Ambient Sounds start.

If it handles T2 it should work.. Hmmmmmm

My specs.........
HP Pavilion 6646C
AMD K6-2 500MHz
192MB RAM
Voodoo3/3000 PCI :(

It barely handles T2. I can play most FM's, but the big ones give me troubles. Several Thievery missions are real bad too.

YcatX
1st Nov 2002, 22:21
Originally posted by RicknMel


My specs.........
HP Pavilion 6646C
AMD K6-2 500MHz
192MB RAM
Voodoo3/3000 PCI :(

It barely handles T2. I can play most FM's, but the big ones give me troubles. Several Thievery missions are real bad too.

NOPE its your AMD K6-2 (I had one and repleaced it with a 200MHz P1 and it only slightly slower and much more stable...) All four of the AMD K6-2 of my clients had problems too.. Just Windows and K6-2 don't like each other...

Do you get very many VXD errors or blue screens?

Using 98se? Even when my client upgraded to XP the CPU still had alot of issues...

I always build mine now... I have more control that way, and I don't have to deal with salespersons or making changes that would NULL my warrienties... Tech support? Its a farce... Get a bare-bones and plug everything to that one...

AMD K6-II are evil!

RicknMel
2nd Nov 2002, 13:19
No, I don't get many errors or BSOD's. The system is fairly stable...it's just slow for gaming. It handles everything else I do just fine (AutoCad, PaintShopPro, etc..etc..) I think it's main weakness is the fact that I have no AGP slots. I think that would help things alot.
Anyways...we've been talking about getting another pc sometime in the next 6-8 months so we can both have one. I would get the new one (the gamer). This pc has several years of life left in it if it's used for normal day-to-day regular computer stuff. ;)

Oh..and yes...I have Win98SE :)

Peter_Smith
2nd Nov 2002, 17:32
Wow!:D I just finished Mines of Margroth on Expert. What a huge and wild mission. Great artistic achievement, YcatX, and I understand that it gets even crazier in the next few missions (I have started the second one).

Mines kept me off the streets for four days. Some of the puzzles were quite difficult, as we all know by now. I had to read some of your spoilers to get through it. Areas that befuddled me for a while included: finding the way to open up the pool area; looking for a way to open the manhole cover in the large pool (I never did find it, if it exists); getting into Bantar's area (switches seemed to have no effect at first); and figuring out what do do next after getting Bantar's amulet (the skull message didn't register in my brain).

Some outstanding moments included: shooting all the exploding fish from the surface (even though it accomplished nothing for me, it was a nice exercise in bowmanship); navigating the ice tunnel swim (ouch); and riding the tornado. I did the tornado with two rope arrows and two slow fall potions, although I am not sure the latter were necessary.

Stats:
7 hours, 36 minutes
9412 / 12862 loot (where is all that stuff:))
Damage dealt 694
Damage taken 20
Healing taken 17
Killed 31
Iron beasts destroyed 11 (are those the headless guys?)

I am sure I must have missed many small areas and secrets. This one is definitely worth a replay. Thanks, YcatX.:)

Is there a way to open that manhole cover? Is the large pool only eye candy, or is there something in there?

YcatX
2nd Nov 2002, 18:16
Originally posted by Peter Smith
Wow!:D I just finished Mines of Margroth on Expert. What a huge and wild mission. Great artistic achievement, YcatX, and I understand that it gets even crazier in the next few missions (I have started the second one).

Mines kept me off the streets for four days. Some of the puzzles were quite difficult, as we all know by now. I had to read some of your spoilers to get through it. Areas that befuddled me for a while included: finding the way to open up the pool area; looking for a way to open the manhole cover in the large pool (I never did find it, if it exists); getting into Bantar's area (switches seemed to have no effect at first); and figuring out what do do next after getting Bantar's amulet (the skull message didn't register in my brain).

I wanted to say "Over my dead body", but I didn't want it to be a cliche. I also wanted to hint to look for skulls (near the entrance to the Tank

Some outstanding moments included: shooting all the exploding fish from the surface (even though it accomplished nothing for me, it was a nice exercise in bowmanship);

Talk about hard... Sheesh... you can sneak up on the fish and make a noise to attact them, and hit a puffer fish and if it is being crowded by other fish; the other fish can get killed by the death of the puffer fish.. Sometimes I use Fire arrows if they reach the surface... Area Effect attacks ROCK!

navigating the ice tunnel swim (ouch); and riding the tornado. I did the tornado with two rope arrows and two slow fall potions, although I am not sure the latter were necessary.

Stats:
7 hours, 36 minutes
9412 / 12862 loot (where is all that stuff:))
Damage dealt 694
Damage taken 20
Healing taken 17
Killed 31
Iron beasts destroyed 11 (are those the headless guys?)

I am sure I must have missed many small areas and secrets. This one is definitely worth a replay. Thanks, YcatX.:)

Is there a way to open that manhole cover?

Yes, then the Tank is turned on (Overhead lights, not the side Hall lights) the drain opens. More side loot...

Is the large pool only eye candy, or is there something in there?

Mostly Eye Candy... It took me forever to get the Flow-brushes to work right.. Still don't know quite how I did it...

As for use: Trading Broadheads and time for healing. Normal dead fish can help you like any other food... Also the gem under the drain. (You can see it if you swim through the filters UNDER the tank. a small crack reveals the room...)

Most common over looked loot:

1) The Loot gained from use of the Mana Seed
2) The coins in the Filters
3) The loot in the shaft below the Feeding room in TANK (Upper most room with shaft)
4) The loot from the Pirates Chest (Gota Bust down a door)
5) Inner Temple of Fire
6) Cealing of Outer Temple of Fire
7) Loot from the Assassins (and turn-coats)
8) Gems inside the Cart
9) The Merchant's Tombs (Traps can kill)


Good luck with Guilded Rivalry...

Peter_Smith
2nd Nov 2002, 19:51
Originally posted by YcatX
Most common over looked loot:

1) The Loot gained from use of the Mana Seed

Got it. That was a fun exercise.:)

2) The coins in the Filters

What and where are the Filters?

3) The loot in the shaft below the Feeding room in TANK (Upper most room with shaft)

Missed it. Don't recall shafts.

4) The loot from the Pirates Chest (Gota Bust down a door)

Got it.

5) Inner Temple of Fire

Don't know where this is. I think I could have missed that entire area. There are some major areas of map I have never been into. At least they are still yellow.

6) Cealing of Outer Temple of Fire

Ditto.

7) Loot from the Assassins (and turn-coats)

Got it.

8) Gems inside the Cart

Missed it, I think. Is this a mining cart or one of the carts near the entrance?

9) The Merchant's Tombs (Traps can kill)

Don't remember.



It's amazing to me that I could have make it through the mission, exploring intently, yet evidently I have missed quite a bit.:) Areas that are still yellow on my maps are:

Mines elevation map: everything to the right of center.

Pool area: everything to the lower left, including four passages that connect to the back-and-forth water passage.

Tricks area: a large series of interconnected rooms in the north central area, blocked by dirt fill.

The last map, where is says Eastern Way on the right and Mirror on the left.

Sneak
2nd Nov 2002, 20:12
Ycatx,
Finished the first one and am now well into the second one. Not far to go.

I had a big time with the first one. Had some real fun Bowhunting those 'Sploding Piranha. Little and fast moving buggers. Took me a bit to open the manhole cover. I knew what was in there as I has seen it from the crack in the water tunnel and followed the map so it was obvious where to get in there. But getting it open, ha, with both lights on it would not open. Finally figured it out.

Nice loot nitch in the red colored hole up there. Saw something flash by my vision on the drop and went back to look. Glad I did.

And the big guy is down, well sort of, but am getting ahead of things as I have already found out. But I outsniped the guy with Broadheads. "Eyeball" That was pretty funny.

The first part of the second mission did not thrill me as much. Probably just me. I couldn't seem to find a clue or reason for how the mirrors work. I had seen those two skull panels in the previous mission and thought that was part of it. But they didn't help me. Then I thought maybe the bell sound was leading me somewhere but that was a dead end. The map seemed to have something but I could not decipher it. So it was basically tedious hunt n peck and save the game when I had it.

Might I suggest if you make an area such as this in the future that you tie the solution and clues better to the game somehow and give us something to work with to unravel it. But of course if you did and I missed it, scratch the above comment and chalk it up to my inability to notice. Did you give a hard clue? ;)

I had some trouble in the water tunnel at the second rope. Well the first one was tough too but the second one; far more often than not when I shot out of the water and up to the high rope, Garrett could not catch it firmly and fell to his death below. Don't know if my experience is isolated but thought I would bring it up.

After the above areas though the Thief came back and I have been having tons of fun slinking about and figuring things out. Glass for loot, who would have thought? Glad I picked a piece up.

Am close to finishing the second one but I seem to have a long way to travel back. I already found the exit earlier and the objectived checked off so I reloaded and went elsewhere.

Thanks for the fun. More later! :D

YcatX
2nd Nov 2002, 20:20
Originally posted by Peter Smith


It's amazing to me that I could have make it through the mission, exploring intently, yet evidently I have missed quite a bit.:) Areas that are still yellow on my maps are:

Mines elevation map: everything to the right of center.

That is covered in Guilded Rivalry

Pool area: everything to the lower left, including four passages that connect to the back-and-forth water passage.

The stairs that lead into water is the filters... You got sucked up the "vaccum" right? Oh.. you mean the pumping rooms... I ran out of space :) They were supposed to connect the tank to the filter system... But after several engine problems, I decided to make that part collapsed.. Damn that Bantar...

Tricks area: a large series of interconnected rooms in the north central area, blocked by dirt fill.

The series of death-trap rooms... Naaa... Everyone would have gotten killed... (A bunch of false door that triggered spear traps if you opened them... A series of rooms filled with them... One room had loot, but I really thought it would distract from the game.. So that meanie, Bantar made them collapse...

The last map, where is says Eastern Way on the right and Mirror on the left.

Ahhhh the Eastern Way... That leads to the exit! That level is called Elements, but I don't label them all in Guilded Rivalry...



I hope the deity-room/mirror-room maze doesn't anger people... I originally had mirror instead of deity symbols, but that would have really upset people... EVERY ROOM WOULD LOOK IDENTICAL!... EEEEK!

YcatX
2nd Nov 2002, 20:30
Originally posted by Sneak
Ycatx,
Finished the first one and am now well into the second one. Not far to go.

I had a big time with the first one. Had some real fun Bowhunting those 'Sploding Piranha. Little and fast moving buggers. Took me a bit to open the manhole cover. I knew what was in there as I has seen it from the crack in the water tunnel and followed the map so it was obvious where to get in there. But getting it open, ha, with both lights on it would not open. Finally figured it out.

Nice loot nitch in the red colored hole up there. Saw something flash by my vision on the drop and went back to look. Glad I did.

And the big guy is down, well sort of, but am getting ahead of things as I have already found out. But I outsniped the guy with Broadheads. "Eyeball" That was pretty funny.

Hehehehehe

The first part of the second mission did not thrill me as much. Probably just me. I couldn't seem to find a clue or reason for how the mirrors work. I had seen those two skull panels in the previous mission and thought that was part of it. But they didn't help me. Then I thought maybe the bell sound was leading me somewhere but that was a dead end. The map seemed to have something but I could not decipher it. So it was basically tedious hunt n peck and save the game when I had it.

Yea... If the "paintings" were looked all the same would it be harder? I was sticking to my maps... I'll add more info on the mega release...

Might I suggest if you make an area such as this in the future that you tie the solution and clues better to the game somehow and give us something to work with to unravel it. But of course if you did and I missed it, scratch the above comment and chalk it up to my inability to notice. Did you give a hard clue? ;)

I had some trouble in the water tunnel at the second rope. Well the first one was tough too but the second one; far more often than not when I shot out of the water and up to the high rope, Garrett could not catch it firmly and fell to his death below. Don't know if my experience is isolated but thought I would bring it up.

There is a trick... Don't swim... Be limp... The T1 version was more stable; T2 version the player swimming has horrible affects on this effect... (Did that make any since?)

After the above areas though the Thief came back and I have been having tons of fun slinking about and figuring things out. Glass for loot, who would have thought? Glad I picked a piece up.

[b]That is shards of rare and valuable crystals..

Am close to finishing the second one but I seem to have a long way to travel back. I already found the exit earlier and the objectived checked off so I reloaded and went elsewhere.

Way to Go! Wouldn't you like to visit a location of the ancients that is UNTOUCHED by HUMANS! Make it past the Burricks and you will new idea on where this is really going...

Thanks for the fun. More later! :D