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View Full Version : Loot objectives, your opinion please!



RiCh
20th Oct 2002, 14:34
Nothing spoils a FM more for me than having to search for a few scraps of missing loot in order to complete that FM. I’ve set up an optional loot objective in my latest FM so this can’t happen, is this a good thing? I could put in an extra bonus objective as an incentive if you DO want to reach the loot total. But if you don't want to search for all the loot, then you don't have to, it's up to you, what do you guy and girls think of this idea?

Keeper Collins
20th Oct 2002, 17:37
A suggjestion. Don't hide Loot in Places Pepole won't think of looking. If you do then write down some were that there is an indication or dead giveaway that there is some loot there. Like for exaple "My wife drooped a ring in fountian the other day and I need someone to find it."

LeatherMan
20th Oct 2002, 17:51
Searching for loot is one of my favorite parts of Thief, and I like finding loot in places nobody would normally look for it. This doesn't mean that loot should be under a pile of 20 crates ....

One suggestion is to have enough loot in obvious places to meet the objective, with bonus loot in the hard to find locations so those who wish to search for extra loot can have fun also. ;)

BTW, How's your ankle?

SlyFoxx
20th Oct 2002, 18:16
Personally I don't like any kind of loot objective. To me the best missions always have a more interesting motivation than just grabbing a bunch of small stuff. Sure, you grab all you can find in the course of completing your other objectives but it's still a seconday concern in my opinion. The real fun is going for.....

1 The BIG Vault.....1st City Bank,
2 The BIG Gem.....7th C
3 The BIG Escape.....Ambushed, Bloodsport
4 The BIG Frame.....D.O.G
5 The BIG Kill.....Maw
6 The BIG Revenge.....Ramirez

I don't like to have to keep hunting for treasure after the main objective is complete unless there's a really good reason to do so. So more options to the player is good. Thanks for thinking along these lines.

Oh btw....7 The BIG Sneek.....A.O.T

RiCh
20th Oct 2002, 21:25
It’s only in my Undead FM that the loot objective is optional. The mansion level, All loot is in plain sight and shouldn’t be a problem. The Undead level is pretty dark so it could be easy to miss some loot. I don’t want people becoming frustrated by this?


Originally posted by LeatherMan
BTW, How's your ankle?

Thanks for asking, well it’s been 5 weeks today since I sustained that injury! If I’m stupid I could be playing again in 2-3 weeks time. If I’m sensible I won’t play again this year! I'm trying to be sensible but the fool in me keeps on a nagging :D

Huntress
20th Oct 2002, 22:54
Please don't be a fool :D Better safe than sorry...errr reinjuring it and laid up again even longer???? That sound better? :)

As far as loot obj's...myself I'm not loot hungry...I go for as much as I can reasonably find but do not search every nook and cranny. It's not important to me to find 100% but I usually get about 80% or so as I do like to search for it but just not climb every crate or swim submerged forever to look either. You asked, I answered :) Thanks for asking and I guess I'm basically of the same mind you are RiCh, so I guess for ppl that do like this sort of challenge...making it an extra objective somehow would seem to be the fair solution IMHO ;)

Just waiting in my padded cell waiting for a guard to pass by so I can pick his key...in other words...waiting for your FM :D Ta and Good Hunting!

newk007
24th Oct 2002, 11:02
In my opinion, the thing about any game that really hooks me in is a well thought out plot and storyline. Just a simple "oh, I'm stealing some fat guy's sceptor" didn't really do it for me in Thief 1. It wasn't till later when Garrett got involved in the whole Constantine drama that I felt that I didn't "have" to play it so I can finish it, rather I "wanted" to play it and see how the story unfolded. I was getting more interested in the story than in playing the missions themselves.

Back to the point, loot has little influence on me while playing Thief. I tend to pick up things that I just happen to see on the way through, and that's enough. Unless finding a certain amount of loot is a mission objective, I often don't bother. Best to stay focused on the task at hand I think. What say you?

Vanguard
24th Oct 2002, 17:35
Don't make the loot objective where you have N-1 pieces of the loot but the player is under the loot objective and getting the last piece slams them up to the max loot. You shouldn't have to get the last piece to get up to or over the loot objective only to find yourself then at the max loot available.

If you put loot in really hard places to get to, don't include them in the loot objective total. If the user has to run around the mission snatching a dozen crates to stack to get atop a roof to roof hop to then use a slowfall potion (the only way down) into an area with a one-way route back out to the mission to get just a coin or two then don't count that in the loot objective. Loot should ALWAYS be where someone could drop it, forget it, leave it, or hide it. I've see loot hidden up somewhere you have to climb with a rope or it is extremely hazardous to get at. Would you hide 30 in loot somewhere that you peril your own life to retrieve your own loot? Traps are different in that the owner knows about them. Loot on corpses in perilous spots is okay as long as there is a reason for the corpse, like a would-be thief that lifted a gem but died on a fall or in a trap. There had to be someway for an AI to get the loot there. If the owner dropped their ring through a grate into the sewers but the ring is somewhere else in the sewers then there had be a strong current (enough to push Garret, too) to give plausible excuse why the ring showed up somewhere downstream; otherwise, the ring should be right under the sewer grate - unless you write a diary for a sewerman that says he found the ring and hid it somewhere.

Loose coins strewn on the streets, floor, stairs, chairs, etc., should not be included in the loot objective. These constitute scrounge loot and in a big FM there is just too much ground or floors to be licking trying to find a few coins here and there and it gets really boring to find it just to make the loot objective. For those that want to get all loot, fine, make them hunt, that's what they want, but I hate scrounging for pennies. It is disrespectful to the notion that Garret is a master thief. He is not a penniless street bum glad to find a few coins to buy crackers. If he was that poor, he wouldn't have the strength or tools to do the jobs.

If you put loot in secrets then don't count it in the loot objective - if the secret is really a secret. Some authors label something a secret when in fact it is an absolute requirement to complete the mission. That's like putting loot into safe that you lockpick or get a key for and calling that a secret. Finding secrets should be a bonus, not a requirement, like finding extra loot, a more overt clue on how to do something, an easier shortcut, switches to turn off lights, more tools or weapons, or something extra but which is not required to play the mission. Most stuff in the mission is already secret - the switch or loot behind the banner, the scroll in a safe, the speed potion in a wall recess at your foot - but they don't get counted as secrets. A secret should give you a bonus or an advantage.

I've also seen authors make objects as loot which were never counted as loot before. A junk blue vase becomes loot, or a bland flat metal plate becomes loot, or a hair brush becomes loot, but not all of these same objects are loot in the mission; only some of them are so you don't know which. I don't want to go picking up every frobbable object in the game to determine if it gets counted as loot. Loot should look like loot or otherwise be identified within the mission as loot. If you want to fake out Garret, you have have a fake for the real thing but there should be some way the player realizes this, like Garret saying, "It's a fake!", but don't put in 1 real object that is loot and 1000 same objects that aren't.

We taffers are just full of .... um ... suggestions, aren't we?

Thorin Oakenshield
24th Oct 2002, 22:37
I like searching for loot. Maybe like already suggested have enough lying around for the objective but DON'T place it all in obvious places have some hidden where taffers might not think to look too.
Personally I try to hide stuff out in the open, You'll be amazed by how many taffers even miss that:eek:

In the end every taffer has their own preference. Go easy on that ankle Rich:rolleyes: