PDA

View Full Version : Hidden Valley / At The Gates - Whining and Complaining



Zaphod
14th Oct 2002, 03:19
I hate these levels. I'm really, really disliking the Hitman 2 experience at this point, and I can't freaking wait to get past them. BUT I CAN'T. (At least, not in Silent Assassin mode).

Grr.

Ok, here's some complaints, after spending the last 4-5 hours trying to sneak my way through this level: I feel like making a donation to Hayamoto's payroll fund, so he can afford to get send his guards to the optomitrist. I'm really tired of trucks running over ninjas and ME getting an Alarm on my stats, just because the ninjas are too dumb to stay out of the middle of the road, or the trucks can't stop driving up on the sidewalks. I'd like some of whatever those snipers are taking that enables them to draw a bead on me .003 seconds after I step into their possible field of vision. The underground guard patrol routes, while being very "realistic," are infuriating because they KEEP CHANGING. I mean, for the same guard. I've now figured out that you have to Sneak at ALL TIMES inside the underground rooms. If a ninjaguard hears Walking in the other room, he'll abandon his route and circle back to check your room. Only took me about 2 hours to figure that out. So, ok. Now I Sneak everywhere. But in the final room (at least, the final one I have to go in), the guard sometimes checks the crate stack closest to the garage door, and sometimes not. Which wouldn't be a problem if he would just be consistent. Driving me nuts. I would like someone who has finished the game to tell me whether or not the crossbow is useful in any later mission, because frankly, I'm getting sick of lugging it around. It, frankly, looks like the least Hitman weapon in either game, with the possible exception of the M4 carbine. I know that if I finish Hidden Valley with the crossbow I'll have access to it for later levels, but... I don't even know if I'll ever use it. And I'm tired of lugging it everywhere. Please explain the logic that is used in the following chain of events: 1) In Hidden Valley, I either can't or won't complete the level without killing a guard, after which I logically 2) take his uniform. In the process, this wrecks my rating, but that's ok, cause I wanna finish the stupid level. But, since At The Gates is just a continuation of Hidden Valley, I can't go back to my toolshed and rearm myself. So I'm pretty much stuck with what I had at the end of the last level. But, I decide blending in is for sissies, so even though it's one of the things I had at the end of the previous level, I ditch my ninjaguard uniform and presumably run halfway back into Hidden Valley to find the white parka that I ditched in the first tunnel room. Yeah, yeah - this happens in games a lot, but it drives me absolutely nuts. The way I'm playing, I hide in the truck for the final leg of the trip. Which only works about 50% of the time, because if the last patrol group is walking in the direction the truck is driving, they're probably gonna see me and blow my rating. BUT, that percentage of success is rapidly approaching ZERO, because the stupid trucks have stopped moving about 85% of the time I try the level. They're all at a standstill. It's making me scream. The best rating I've gotten so far is "Executioner," (I think I got Professional once. Is "Professional" a rating?) which isn't bad, but I'm not satisfied.

Mitigating Factors:Those ninjaguard outfits, all three versions, are among the best uniforms I've seen in any game ever. I keep having to resist the temptation to kill a guard just so I can wear one around. Which reminds me - can you get into the sniper houses at all? I want that big fancypants sniper rifle, but I also want the sniperninja's uniform. Ok, I want the fancy sniper rifle a little more than the uniform.

The only good thing about completing Hidden Valley was that I got a chance to see At The Gates, which makes Hidden Valley seem really great by comparrison. I can understand now why people are comparing these two levels to the Columbia levels of the first game. My little hitman wants to work in hotels, mansions, and cityscapes. He doesn't like running around in the woods like GI Freakin' Joe. And when he's not happy, I'm not happy.

Ok, 3 more tries at these stupid levels and I'm putting it down for a day or two.

Grr.

readds
14th Oct 2002, 06:59
You don't really need the crossbow in any other mission.
I never picked it up and completed the game just fine.
It's actually the weekest weapon in the arsenal.

corseque
14th Oct 2002, 07:41
I couldn't agree more. These missions remind me of everything that was bad in the first hitman. If you're supposed to go on a commando mission then there should be the ability to crawl and a better snow camouflage wouldn't hurt either. But no, Our brave hitman has to blend in his surroundings by staying standing at all times and wearing black pants against a white backround. That's really smart.

As for the crossbow, keep it for the At the Gates mission since you do not have any way past the 3 or 4 snipers guarding the castle and theywill spot you. Sniping duel is unavoidable. What's more, sometimes snipers are able to shoot through the walls. I got myself to the first sniper tower but got killed as one of the castle snipers shot me through the tower's rock wall. Okay, I was standing right at the edge and the bullet may have hit me in the finger but still.

I would cheat myself through this but I can't get the f----ng cheats to work!

Rai-Fu
14th Oct 2002, 12:44
the only good that crossbow is good for is... shooting the snipers and pray they drop the rifle i have gotten the custom rifles here on multiable occassions. the trick is to hit them in the head or gut{the crossbow bobs like your doing jumping jacks} like i said pray the rifles fall sometimes the stop on the lip of the roof and others they fall but ya don't see it. i see no way to get sa with out eidos patching the game.the truck drivers must be d.u.i. they hit the gaurds alot like ya said gaurds check your id but the suits don't make a differance and there is no way to blend and walk through the tunnels the sniper tunnels can't be entered to my knowledge.
my best rating was professional. been gettng sa up till now.

the crossbow is generally useless aside from my prevous statement. and how come when ya finish the game



Zaphod i have got st petersburg sa rated for your walkthrou if ya want my condensed expanation please reply here or email me. i think the ones ya posted are very good.it doesn't show you your overall score i might have skipped it but i doubt it

Catman
14th Oct 2002, 13:00
One time I was able to run around behind a pillar, and that, oddly enough, seemed to satisfy their credential check. I reckon they were thinking, "Woah! He's fast! He must be one of us!"

The next group wasn't so easily convinced and opened fire ...

http://www1.iastate.edu/~wsthune/cps/ted/tedsad.gif

Elenkis
14th Oct 2002, 13:32
As for the crossbow, keep it for the At the Gates mission since you do not have any way past the 3 or 4 snipers guarding the castle and theywill spot you. Sniping duel is unavoidable.

No, no, no. Gun fights are NEVER unavoidable in this game.

At the Gates is one of the easiest missions in the game to get Silent Assassin rating on. Drug a guard with anaesthetic, take his uniform and then simply stay away from guards patrolling on the ground (the only tricky one is the single guard patrolling the first generator). Remember that the snipers completely ignore you if you're wearing a uniform. You can do the mission in about 5 minutes and get Silent Assassin rating, easy. I repeat: snipers will ignore you if you're disguised.

Hidden Valley is tricky but only because of the lame scripting bug which allows the trucks to run over ninjas, which in turn causes the trucks to stop forever and never move again. There are several ways to do it... The easiest is to jump in a truck at the beginning, jump out before the checkpoint, climb up the manhole to the surface, down the next manhole and jump into another truck. Problem is that this relies on none of the ninjas getting run over, which luckily has only happened to me twice in the many times I've replayed this mission (I ended up loving the Japan missions after I realising how great they are for stealth and I enjoy playing through them all).

Another way is to just sneak through the tunnel, it takes timing but isn't too hard. Remember that druging guards is your friend and as long as you don't steal their uniform they will just wake up and carry on as normal without causing any alerts. One dose of anaesthetic is a very effective way of getting out of a tight spot. You can even do it when a guard comes to check your ID, just move around and drug him before he discoveres you're an imposter.

Then there's the cheap way which is just take the uniform from the guard near your equipment and run as fast as you can to the exit (staying above ground). Sure the guards may yell at you to stop, but if you're quick then they wont get a chance to find out who you are and you will still get Silent Assassin.

Hopefully they will fix the bugs in Hidden Valley in a patch, because I really quite enjoy it when it works properly (even though it is the mission I like least in the game). Unlike the Columbia missions in Hitman 1 stealth is a completely viable and GOOD option. I love stealthy gameplay so sneaking through that tunnel was fun for me, and damn did I feel like a badass when I finally took out Hayamoto and left again without ever being seen during my trip to Japan.

Dasim4
14th Oct 2002, 13:45
As far as the enemy AI being unpredictable I think you're flat wrong. That's what I want. I think it's boring when guards do exactly the same thing all the time. Then it just becomes a matter of timing. Get the timing down and it's easy. Throw in a little random AI routing though and suddenly things get very interesting. Seems more realistic to me that way. Harder, yes, but more realistic.

Lake
14th Oct 2002, 13:48
I was really liking this game until Hidden Valley. Guess I will try the cheap run through the valley before I start breaking CDs.

Zaphod
14th Oct 2002, 14:55
I've managed to sneak through the entire level, without even having to drug anyone. Damn, was that hard. Had to try it about 8 times so the trucks would manage to not kill any patrolling ninjas. But, when the trucks are running fine, it makes the whole level a breeze.

Now on to At The Gates.

I also did it after drugging the guy near your weapons cache. Which made the level much easier. My big problem before in this level was this: I simply forgot to Not Run while in uniform. No wonder the snipers targeted me - I was the only ninjaguard who was running. Same as in any other mission - don't run in uniform. God, I'm an idiot.

Hopefully tonight I'll be able to get by At The Gates. I will say, Elenkis, that after finishing Hidden Valley without having to rely on that stupid truck scripting bug, I am starting to see some of the fun and beauty of sneaking through these levels. Some. Not much, but some. Which at least puts me in a better mood than I was yesterday.

corseque
14th Oct 2002, 16:48
I don't have much patience when it comes to the stupidity of scripting and therefore I cheated myself through At the Gates and Shogun Showdown (finally got the cheats to work). Japan goes in to the same category as Amsterdam in HM1. Even jungle missions were more fun than this. More running (or sneaking) around in a forest or some other area where there are no civilians is not what I was hoping from the sequel.

Now that I'm in Kuala Lumpur, things are starting to look better. This is what Hitman should be all about. I hope there isn't another (in addition to japan, that is. Did I mention I hate japan missions?) drastic drop in the quality of level design later on.

Elenkis
14th Oct 2002, 16:56
I think it is a real shame that you cheated through Shogun Showdown because it is a classic Hitman level where you can wander around freely in disguise and have lots of options for killing your target. This has become one of my favourite missions in both games, great stuff.

The first Japan mission was also a Hitman classic.

Zaphod
14th Oct 2002, 17:30
No question, Elen - "Tracking Hayamoto" was an instant classic. I can't wait to go back and find new ways of finishing the level. The only thing I can say bad about this level is that it's pretty indictative of one of my few complaints with the gameplay, which I'm going to cover in detail in my Big Rambling Review that I'm writing - in order to get the "best" rating in this game, its advisible to see as little of the level as possible. Get in, minimize contact, make your hit, get out.

There's so much to this level. I've still never seen Hayamoto Jr. in person - just put things in his food and snuck back out. I also know there's a kimono (or the male equivelant) in one of the rooms, which I could presumably don and wander around the house. I can only hope that there's no M. Butterfly antics involved in finishing the hit that way.

So, yeah - Japan 1 is great. 2 and 3 REALLY take some getting used to. They aren't as stereotypically "Hitmanish" as I'd like. And scripting errors make me seethe.

TheDarkStar
16th Oct 2002, 22:52
Well, I didn't like those two levels much either, but Silent Assassin was possible although I spent some hours with it as well. I think one of those levels would have been enough for the game. But Shogun Showdown is just a great reward later. I said it in another post, Silent Assassin is always possible (don't know about the last mission yet). And only killing the target and no one else is also possible in every level. I never used many weapons in the game. I sniped only one time (St. Petersburg) and one headshot with a 9mm SD (Tubeway Torpedo). The last mentioned can be done with Pager and Fibre Wire too. The only things I always carried are Anaesthetic and the Fibre Wire. Stealth rocks!!

Peacemaker556
17th Oct 2002, 00:19
I find it impossible to get silent assassin on Shogun Showdown because there is that little maze with the deagle guys, and when you get to the the shogun there are about 10 ninjas guarding him. I think ppl lie when they say they get Silent Assassin in some levels like the Shogun Showdown or some of the other JApan levels.

Elenkis
17th Oct 2002, 02:47
I think ppl lie when they say they get Silent Assassin in some levels like the Shogun Showdown or some of the other JApan levels.

And I think you don't realise that there are multiple ways to finish every mission that you obviously haven't figured out. Don't accuse people of lying just because you lack the perception required.

Here's a hint: You don't even have to ever go up to the top floor or see the Shogun to kill him.

Zaphod
17th Oct 2002, 04:47
Peacemaker -

Check my new walkthrough of Shogun Showdown here (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=84359#post84359). Its very possible to get an SA rating on this level. In fact, if you can accept the idea of killing 1 random guard, rather than trying to sneak the whole thing, it becomes pretty easy after that.

TheDarkStar
17th Oct 2002, 22:24
Sorry, but wrong again Zaphod. In Shogun Showdown there is no need to kill ANYone but the target. You can find a Ninja outfit in one of the rooms. You can walk silent to this room without being seen by the guards. While wearing the outfit you are free to go anywhere. I solved all levels without killing anyone but the target(s). And maybe some people say I lie. If you want and don't believe I will post screenshots !!!! Zaphod, if you need help with the walkthrough I would be glad to help you. I sent you a mail some days ago.

- DarkStar

Zaphod
17th Oct 2002, 23:30
There's a ninja uniform? That doesn't surprise me at all, I guess, given that there's a spare uniform in a few other missions, too. Where is it? I admit I've been terrible about checking my email lately. Write up a little thing about how to get there and I'll revise the walkthrough with both of us listed :)

Elenkis
17th Oct 2002, 23:52
There's a ninja uniform? That doesn't surprise me at all, I guess, given that there's a spare uniform in a few other missions, too. Where is it?

There's a black ninja uniform in the room with the ninjas and the TV. I believe it is two rooms to the left of the remote bomb room.

Zaphod
18th Oct 2002, 00:06
Rockin'

Too bad I left my copy of my game at work so I could actually get some stuff done tonight :)

Devistater
18th Oct 2002, 08:28
Just finish hidden valley in whatever way you want (lots of mayhem is fun) with the crossbow, one you finish it, the crossbow will autmatically be back at your shed. Even if you dont have it with you at the end of the next mission, it will still be back at the shed. Then you can always go back and replay that level and acheive silent assasain. Only the most recent play of the level is stored on your stats, i.e. each successive replay of that level replaces that level's stats with the current try. And since the crossbow is already at the shed, no need to worry about lugging it around anymore in your next tries if you dont want it.

I did this with the first level so I could get the gold club, shotgun, etc :) Then I went through and got silent assassin on it and only that try was put in my stats.

I only wish that you could edit the save game names so I could tell what savegames had what on them. I'm going to have to go back and replay a few levels to get silent assassin (at the gates and valley) and I forgot if I got SA on the tracking one dangit :)