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Dark__Sephiroth
7th Oct 2002, 11:02
(befor he was cast into the abyse) Is Raziel an anchent vampire a normal Vampire or some other cross breed yet to be discoved i really dont know what he is and was just wondering if any body knows. And dose it have some conection whith part of his soul being in the reaver.

Umah Bloodomen
7th Oct 2002, 11:11
First question, have we played Soul Reaver 1 or 2? ;)

Power reaver
7th Oct 2002, 13:22
Taking into account that he was 1000 years old at the time , I d say he was an ancient Vampire .

Umah Bloodomen
7th Oct 2002, 13:38
He isn't totally ancient...sure he's old, but he isn't Janos-old. :p

Power reaver
7th Oct 2002, 15:09
He isn't totally ancient...sure he's old, but he isn't Janos-old.

Janos is super ancient , but strangely he doesent look a day over 2000 , what youth cream does he use ? Oh yeah , I forgot he is immortal . :rolleyes:
:p
But seriously 1000 is quite old , I mean the oldest human around 111 yrs old or is that in India only , I forget . Anyway I think that once youve gotten the claws and the weird feet you have totally matured as a Vampire . I mean the only Vampires who I have seen having such characteristics are 1000 over confirmed (I dont know about BO2 though , Ahhhh the horrors of only playing 2 games in a 4 game series) . Also the devolved Vampires dont count since they were formed due to the corruption of the pillars .

I feel these 2 things are signs of maturation , but offcourse this is only my opinion and theory .

One more thing , just for your info Dark_Sephiroth , Razes real age at the time when he was thrown into the abyss is 2030 . 1000 is his age as a Vampire (ie the amount of time he was a Vampire) . Just something I thought you should know . :cool:

Anubis_Orr
7th Oct 2002, 15:36
Also the devolved Vampires dont count since they were formed due to the corruption of the pillars .
I'm thinking ....... no :)

A 1000 years is quite old from our perspective, but for Nosgoth that really isn't all that old, look at Moebius he's human and he's at least 530+ years old (along with Mortanius and Malek). BTW the "weird" feet and claws are called cloven :p And I think it's a fair supposition that those are signs of age. I don't think you should bother trying to guess his age, let's just say that he's over 2000+ :D

Power reaver
8th Oct 2002, 04:02
I'm thinking ....... no

Why ?


BTW the "weird" feet and claws are called cloven

I knew that ....I , I just forgot that word , yeah I forgot the word , I knew that , sure I did ......:p


let's just say that he's over 2000+

And end this discussion , Why ? Like we have anything better to do .... Well I dont ;) .

Well back on topic , Raz at least should be near Ancient , I mean he was the second strongest Vampire in Nosgoth , and he is in charge of a huge Vampire civilization , next to Kain .

Its just the way I feel , heck dont listen to me , Iam a Raz fan :p

Dark__Sephiroth
12th Oct 2002, 12:31
Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
First question, have we played Soul Reaver 1 or 2? ;)



Both

Dark__Sephiroth
12th Oct 2002, 12:44
I know the story of soul reaver well but it never says what Raziel really is i personly think he is an Ancient Vampire because he is blue.

Power reaver
12th Oct 2002, 14:09
**Slaps himself**

Iam such an idiot , DS was asking about his race and not his rank .

Sorry for the mix up DS :rolleyes:

Anyway , we really dont know what Raziel was before he was thrown him the abyss . Definately there was something important about him .

But Iam taking a wild guess , he was a normal Vampire , the reason Iam saying this is related to my "All Vamps have an ancient inside them theory" . I ll post the theory later , Iam gettin really lazy right now . Sorry .:o

Esoteric
12th Oct 2002, 15:00
I think that if he hadn't been thrown into the abyss, he may have evolved to look more like the ancients. However, I believe he true "species" at this current point in time is "wraith". A particularily powerful wraith. As for his age, didn't he say he served Kain for a millenium? That's a 1000 years... and I believe he spent a few hundred in the abyss... so I don't think he is more than 2000 years old. 1300 maybe. Not sure, it hasn't really been clarified in the games.

Jeffers
12th Oct 2002, 22:00
Is it just me or does anyone else remember reading somewhere that Raziel was pushed on to a differant evolutionary path AFTER he was chucked into the abyss not when he was evolving his wings? Or is that just me going mad reading something which doesn't exist!?!? :confused:

Jeffers

Rook
12th Oct 2002, 23:06
I believe it was Amy, herself, that said that.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/rook/Smileys/razsmfin.gif

Esoteric
13th Oct 2002, 02:49
Yes, his "evolutionary path" was altered and I do recall reading that. He was a vampire... now he is a wraith from what I can tell. :p

Power reaver
13th Oct 2002, 04:40
OK heres my theory :

We all know that the uncursed Ancients created the pillars , they were their rightful guardians and used them to lock the Hylden into another dimension . The Hylden then cursed the Ancients , with Vamperism . This curse made them unpure , and unfit to be a pillar guardian . They could also no longer reproduce . As the Ancients were not fit to be pillar guardians , the pillars did not sustain them and they died out . The pillars moved on to the next best thing , Humans .

Janos Audron , on the other hand did not die out , because he was not a pillar guardian , but the reavers guardian . Plus his obligation to Raziel gave him the hope to live .


Now I assume that all Vampires (including Big V and Kain) have an ancient inside them , waiting to come out . This ancient can only come out once the Vampire has crossed the evolutionary path of an ancient . In Kains empire , Raziel was the 1st to cross this path and evolve wings . But since Raziel too was plagued by Vamperism , the evolution also was impure . Thus resulting in the Vamperic Bat Wings which tore out of Raziels back .

Kain knew what was happening , he knew Raziel was transforming into an Ancient . But as Raz was a Vamp , the transformation would be impure . So Kain knew what he had to do , he had to make Raziel pure . The only way to do that was by removing Vamperism from Raziels body or remove Raziel from his Vamperic body . So Kain threw him into the abyss , hoping that one day Raziels pure spirit would come out of his Vamperic body , and would become a pure ancient .

As Raz was thrown in , his body slowly melted away and his true spirit was awakened , thus Raziel transformed(evolved) into a full Pure ancient (which is the totally different evolutionary path Amy talked about) while in the abyss .

Thats my theory , what do you guys think ?

Anubis_Orr
13th Oct 2002, 05:20
This curse made them unpure , and unfit to be a pillar guardian . They could also no longer reproduce . As the Ancients were not fit to be pillar guardians , the pillars did not sustain them and they died out . The pillars moved on to the next best thing , Humans .
Personally I don't agree with that theory, the Pillars would only have one set of Ancient Guardians because they were cursed soon after the Pillars construction, millenium passed and slowly over time the Guardians died out (whether naturally or maliciously is unknown).

Also Kain is not omniscient, he's seen glimpses of time periods and their events.... based on what he'd seen he made educated guesses and relied a lot on luck to try to change the destiny that had been forced upon him by unknown forces.

As to there being an Ancient inside of every vampire, the Ancients were their own destinct race that were magically cursed with blood thirst and immortality (and robbed of their ability to reproduce) all this was carefully orchestrated to nullify them over a great span of time. By creating a vampire from a human an Ancient isn't reincarnating one of his brethren that has long been dead he/she is passing on the curse that affect them (perhaps to have a companion or someone to aide in their struggle against "evil"). Plus by definition all vampires are impure and abberations of nature so none of them would be able to attain that so called state.

Also Raziel hasn't become an Ancient, he's a totally unique being that the likes of Nosgoth have never seen before (that we know of, and with the exception of time travel) the only thing he seems to have in common with the Ancients is the fact that he is blue, his wings were bat-like while the Ancients have bird/angel like wings.

Also, why would Kain have an Ancient in him? He was resurrected through Necromancy not through the bite of a vampire, therefore there's no direct blood-link to any Ancients.

Vampmaster
13th Oct 2002, 14:22
I don't think Power Reaver means there's another being inside each vampire. What I think he means is that vampires should slowly evolve towards that of an antient, however the curse causes this to go wrong and they come out mutated and more evil (the effects of this increased after the corruption of the pillars). Kain realised that this was the closest he could ever find to a pure antient so he stopped it right there and forced Raziel on an evolutionary path that would lead him even closer to becoming like the antients. Kain has definately removed the blood curse from Raziel and now Raz only needs souls to speed his recovery and could survive without them if he wanted. Eventually he may be able to recover immediately on entering the spectral realm and shift at will. Apart from the fact that his body is so damaged he would then be near enough completely an antient. I think the pillars did not sustain their antient guardians because they had their souls bonded to the pillars as Raz is being bonded to the Reaver and this is how the pillars can choose their guardians. If the antients who did this were the first guardians of the pillars but the last of the antients then the pillars may never had chance to chose new antient guardians.

Jeffers
13th Oct 2002, 14:22
Originally posted by Esoteric
Yes, his "evolutionary path" was altered and I do recall reading that. He was a vampire... now he is a wraith from what I can tell. :p

:p

Thats not what I mean't and you know it. The way I read it was that until Raziel was chucked into the abyss he was exactly the same as Kain and his bretherin and would continue to evolve in a vampiric state. Yes that is similar to what you said but I was referencing it to the first post of the thread.

Jeffers

Esoteric
13th Oct 2002, 15:19
:rolleyes: Actually at the time, I wasn't sure who you were referring to... generalizations can be that way you know.

My take on his evolution BEFORE he was tossed into the abyss was that all the bretheren were on a corrupted evolutionary path. Had Raziel not been corrupted, he may have evolved into a form reminiscent of Janos' race. All of the bretheren were evolving into something reflecting their true nature, yes? Raziel is destined to be "saviour of Nosgoth" (supposedly), perhaps evolving to be more like the Ancients is a reflection of his true nature. (No, i don't mean BECOME a member of Janos race!) That doesn't mean he is on a different path in evolution than his brothers, since they were all evolving to have different and unique forms anyway.

However, what he may have evolved into was irrevokably changed in the Abyss. I guess it's a matter of interpretation, no? ;)

Anubis_Orr
13th Oct 2002, 16:09
I'm not saying that there is another being within every vampire, he said that he believes that inside every vampire there is an Ancient waiting to come out, so if it ever did it would be a reincarnation of a dead race. And as I said they are two separate DISTINCT races why would one have to evolve to look like the other?

Jeffers
13th Oct 2002, 21:07
Sabtotage, spying, making sure they stay locked up/cursed.

Now thats a theory, what if there was one way the hylden gate could be opened on the inside to let people out and there was a spy in who was replaced every 500 years or summet like that?

Daft I know, and I don't think it is true but you never know.

Jeffers

keepittrue
14th Oct 2002, 08:52
Raziel at his current state is a Soul Reaver, there is no other kind like him, some people also refer to him as a super vampire wrath witch is somewhat accurate. Before Raziel was chucked into the abyss he was not an ancient, he was Vampire of Kains own breed. Vorador and Janos are the only two ancient Vampires that we have seen thus far, many Vampires devolop cloven hands after a certain amout of time, even Dumah had cloven hands.
Kain has a unique Vampire heritage that he passed on to his brood, his is so unique because he was made thru necromancy by Mortanius the guardian of death which he is not a Vampire.

Vampmaster
14th Oct 2002, 09:42
The antients were turned into vampires and then created others BUT many of their traits are passes on to those they turn. It's an alternative method of reproduction. If not for the combination of curse and the pillars corruption it would be simply turning humans into antients. (New ones, not ressurected/reincarnated dead ones.)

Power reaver
14th Oct 2002, 17:16
Vampmaster has it right , thats what I said . Thank you Vampmaster for clearing things up .

I agree that Raziel is a totally new type of creature , BUT he contains within him , characteristics that are still ancient .

I finally understand what makes Raziel so important :

1)He can suck souls and helps in making the SR

2)He cannot die

3)He contains Ancient like characteristics , the only ancient now no longer effected by Vamperism .

All these traits make him extremely important , both good and evil sides want him .

The Evil know he is the only 1 with enough strength to kill Kain .

He is the closest to a Pure Ancient so the ancients need him to full fill certain things (to be explained in SR3) .

Raziel has become a kind of Super Ancient , while he is still not an ancient . Thats why there is a statue of him in the fire forge , because he is something higher then an ancient , he is considered to be the Ancients savior or something . It makes a lot more sense now .:D

This is the only reasonalble explaination I can come up with , thoughts ?

Uggabugg
14th Oct 2002, 18:20
one thing that troubles me is the fact that raziel was never suposed to live long enough to meet any other anchents(how the hell do you spelll that anyway) than janos. raziel in the new time line would be able to meet other like janos, but not in the old, so if this is so how could janos know about raziel? how could there be a statue of raziel in the fire forge? and how about the forges in it self? who buit them? how could they know of Raziels entrapment in the reaver? i donesent make sense.

Anubis_Orr
14th Oct 2002, 19:41
Passing on traits does not make one species into another, they may develop some characteristics but they will NEVER be exactly like the other because they are separate races. (Your parents gave you traits from each of them would you ever be exactly like ONE of them? [looks, IQ, abilities, etc]). AND the curse is the reason that they create other vampires so why would it be at fault for "imputies", and the Pillars aren't corrupted for a long time after that.

And Gorechild it's "Ancients"

Jeffers
14th Oct 2002, 21:55
Originally posted by Gorechild
anchents(how the hell do you spelll that anyway)

ancients, i just spell checked it to make sure.

Jeffers

Esoteric
14th Oct 2002, 22:12
The Evil know he is the only 1 with enough strength to kill Kain .

Actually, you know what? I had a thought a while back on this tipoc, why is it that Raziel must be the one to kill Kain and I don't think it is completely about Raziel being the only one strong enough (or unable to die). I think it is because Raziel is both powerful enough but more importantly, because he devours souls. Isn't the balance guardians binding item to the Pillar of Balance his or her soul? Without Kain's soul as his binding item (since Raz would have eaten it, heh) how would the Pillar of Balance ever be restored? It wouldn't and therefore, the pillars would not be restored because the cycle of guardians is broken. Kain would need to die and his soul returned to the Pillar of Balance in order for new guardians to be born. Without new guardians, obviously the pillars would be forever in decay and the cycle is permanently broken.


one thing that troubles me is the fact that raziel was never suposed to live long enough to meet any other anchents(how the hell do you spelll that anyway) than janos. raziel in the new time line would be able to meet other like janos, but not in the old, so if this is so how could janos know about raziel? how could there be a statue of raziel in the fire forge? and how about the forges in it self? who buit them? how could they know of Raziels entrapment in the reaver? i donesent make sense.

If Moebius can see into the future and past... don't you think the Ancients had their own time guardian(s)? He/she would undoubtedly have this ability, perhaps even more potently too, cause the Ancients seem to be extremely powerful.

Uggabugg
14th Oct 2002, 23:18
yeah ive thougt about that, but then why would janos be so confused when he saw raziel? and just becase they could see raziel in the future doesent mean that they have the knolage on how to make spirit forges....do they? prsonally al i can come up with is that the reaver itself must have been able to be forged in these reaver forges in its physical form.

Anubis_Orr
15th Oct 2002, 00:42
IMO The Ancients were responsible for the Pillars, Forges, Time streaming chambers, Chronoplast, and the "Sarafan" Stronghold.

Keep in mind that the Time Guardian is not omnipotent, he/she may see many events but that doesn't mean they know everything. And the time-stream has changed drastically with the murder of King William by Kain so perhaps that also changed how Raziel was going to complete his destiny, things changed and Kain threw him into the Abyss which may or may not have happened in the previous time-stream.

Power reaver
15th Oct 2002, 04:57
Actually, you know what? I had a thought a while back on this tipoc, why is it that Raziel must be the one to kill Kain and I don't think it is completely about Raziel being the only one strong enough (or unable to die). I think it is because Raziel is both powerful enough but more importantly, because he devours souls. Isn't the balance guardians binding item to the Pillar of Balance his or her soul? Without Kain's soul as his binding item (since Raz would have eaten it, heh) how would the Pillar of Balance ever be restored? It wouldn't and therefore, the pillars would not be restored because the cycle of guardians is broken. Kain would need to die and his soul returned to the Pillar of Balance in order for new guardians to be born. Without new guardians, obviously the pillars would be forever in decay and the cycle is permanently broken.


Very good thinking Esoteric , thats another reason why the Evil want him on their side . :)

Jeffers
15th Oct 2002, 21:52
Originally posted by Anubis_Orr
IMO The Ancients were responsible for the Pillars, Forges, Time streaming chambers, Chronoplast, and the "Sarafan" Stronghold.

Keep in mind that the Time Guardian is not omnipotent, he/she may see many events but that doesn't mean they know everything. And the time-stream has changed drastically with the murder of King William by Kain so perhaps that also changed how Raziel was going to complete his destiny, things changed and Kain threw him into the Abyss which may or may not have happened in the previous time-stream.

The way I think about the time stream changing is that as it strains so much to try and avoid changes that the time guardians would also see the changes in the time stream with history altering.

Here's a big question, what if the time guardian had the time stream altered, somebody else then managed to alter it(raziel), but the time guardian needed to alter it back. Do you think it would ever be possible? I don't. The main reason being, are we going to see in Soul Reaver 3, mobious trying to alter the time stream in such a way as that Raziel and Kain while trying to alter it to restore their original destinies end up actually putting it back to the complete begining where they attempt to alter it to restore their original destinies. Confused? I am! :confused:

Jeffers

Anubis_Orr
16th Oct 2002, 01:11
Well, there is a theory of temporal limitations for such a situation that would restrict such things. My guess is that Moebius is going to create a fatal paradox and is going to be expunged from the time stream forever.

Power reaver
16th Oct 2002, 14:17
Well, there is a theory of temporal limitations for such a situation that would restrict such things. My guess is that Moebius is going to create a fatal paradox and is going to be expunged from the time stream forever.

I think Kain and/or Raz will create the fatal paradox , but somehow survive the expelltion . at least Raz will as he needs to go into the reaver .

Hmmmm , this could perhaps continue the series , Kain gets expelled from time into a new world , where his powers are of no use BLAH BLAH BLAH ;)

Darakari
19th Oct 2002, 00:53
At the moment, Janos is the only Vampire in Nosgoth. Vorador, Kain, Raziel, and all of the other clans are not Vampires - they are only blood-drinkers. However, I do believe that the evolution of blood-drinkers is the natural result of their blood-line attempting to return the body back to the original Ancient Vampire form. Vampires, with the exception of Janos, have died out of Nosgoth. But because of the curse, their blood has passed on to others, turning them into blood-drinkers, and attempting to evolve their bodies back to the original Ancient Vampire Race.

We still do not know the exact means by which blood-drinkers are created in Nosgoth. Even though we do know that the process involves pulling the soul back from the underworld, and also fusing into the body a portion of the soul of the blood-drinker doing the creating. Mortanius may also have infused Kain with Ancient Vampire blood during the process where he created the blood-drinker Kain, but that's just wishful-thinking on my part.

Kain recognized that Raziel was starting to slowly evolve into a Vampire, so he threw him into the Abyss. The evolution of the clans in SR1 into animal-like creatures was the result of failed attempts by the blood to turn the clan members into Vampires.

I still hold to the belief that Raziel's destiny is to evolve into the first of a new line of the Vampire race. Between Janos and Raziel, everyone turned have become blood-drinkers. With his freedom from the blood-thirst as a Soul-Reaver, Raziel is one more step closer to becoming the first in a new line of Vampires. The first Vampire created since Janos.

Anubis_Orr
19th Oct 2002, 01:21
You're arguing semantics

keepittrue
19th Oct 2002, 01:52
Darakari, I get your logic and it does make sense, however all of them are Vampires, Vampirism is the curse, Janos was an ancient(we dont know the name of theyre race yet besides just ancient), I get what you are saying but I think you got the def of Vampire wrong.

Vampmaster
19th Oct 2002, 11:49
Originally posted by Anubis_Orr
Passing on traits does not make one species into another, they may develop some characteristics but they will NEVER be exactly like the other because they are separate races. (Your parents gave you traits from each of them would you ever be exactly like ONE of them?

Your parents are human so that means you are too, even though you're not identical to them. Antients/vampires reproduce by turning humans into members of their race except for various reasons they mutate and go wrong. Vampires who have been turned from humans are half antient and half human (like half your DNA comes from your mother and half from your father) but until they start mutating they evolve from a bit antient and a lot human to a lot antient and a bit human.

Anubis_Orr
19th Oct 2002, 18:09
That's a hybrid, and one will never become the other. And how do you know that the Ancients aren't actually a super-evolved form of humans, so humans themselves may have the potential in their DNA to become like an Ancient. And DNA doesn't quite work out that you'll get half from each or every child from the same two parents would be exactly the same (with some differences because of the nurture factor). It's a roll of the dice.

Darakari
19th Oct 2002, 23:51
Janos Auldron: "Raziel, vampires are no longer born."

In the world of Nosgoth, Vampire is a race of blue-skinned-winged individuals that once produced children just as any other race does. When the Hylden cursed the Vampire race, they gave them the blood-thirst, took away their ability to produce children, and gave them the ability to pass that curse on to others. The blood-thirst is possibly an intentional sarcastic way for the Hylden to ironically get revenge against the blood-thirsty Blood Reaver that the Vampires created and against which the Hylden had no defense. Once the Vampires were destroyed as a race, there really was no one that could be truthfully called a Vampire, except for Janos Auldron. However, since the blood-thirst disease had been passed on to humans, and there was no other simple name for the disease, humans who had recieved the blood-thirst-curse from the Vampires eventually became known as vampires themselves.

But the whole point of my argument is not the difference between a vampire and a Vampire, but the fact that the blood or even the powers that create a new blood-drinking human have the side effect of passing on the Vampire DNA to a new host. So that in the Hylden's attempt at destroying the Vampires, they actually unknowingly insured their immortality in the ability to eventually create a new race of Vampires. I believe that a side effect of the blood-thirst also includes that the curse attempts to slowly transform the host into another Vampire. The five clans in SR1 are failed mutated attempts at this transformation. Finally freed from the curse of blood-drinking, Raziel's destiny may be to eventually evolve into a true Vampire and sire a new race of Vampires to replace the race that has died out.

Those that want to prevent this destiny have altered time so that Raziel becomes trapped in the Blood Reaver, changing it into the Soul Reaver. But in plotting Raziel's demise, they have unwittedly cause a loop in time that will continue to repeat endlessly in order to provide Kain and Raziel an opportunity to break the vicious circle. Kain to Raziel: "We have ALWAYS met here." Trapping Raziel's soul in the blade is times way of having the "rushing river flow around the pebble that was thrown into it". By keeping Raziel alive in this endless circle of time, time is giving Kain and Raziel the opportunity to eventually "balance the coin on its edge". The actions of Kain and Raziel will allow time to restore to its natural order and return the Vampire race to Nosgoth. When Raziel finds the soul reaver still attached to his arm at the end of SR2, it is because there are still several time-altering events that Raziel and Kain have to accomplish in order to complete the restoration of the time/space continuum of Nosgoth. Raziel and Kain have started a new path, but they are still not finished traveling down the road to their ultimate destination.

Dark__Sephiroth
20th Oct 2002, 08:14
All Vampires are linked to the ancient vampires because Vorador is a normal vampire and his maker was the acient janos..................... i just thought of a new question y are there even normal vampires y arent they all like the Ancent vampires? what trigged the change of the makeing of vampires ???

Umah Bloodomen
20th Oct 2002, 08:26
I commented a little bit on the biological nomenclature of Nosgoth's vampire race. (It somewhat came up in the following topic).

Humans vs. the Superior Races (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6146&highlight=Humans+vs+superior)

Vampmaster
21st Oct 2002, 09:27
What I was trying to say was that humans who are turned are sort of infected with DNA (maybe not really DNA but some sort of magic that does the same thing) from the Antient vampires. It's like a virus overwrites DNA of cells with its own in order to get the cell to produce more of the virus. Eventually there would come a point where there was very little human DNA left and they would be nearly Antients.

keepittrue
22nd Oct 2002, 01:05
Darakari, like I said before I see your logic but like I said before, you are confused on the def of Vampires:

Main Entry: vam┬Ěpire
Pronunciation: 'vam-"pIr
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from German Vampir, from Serbo-Croatian vampir
Date: 1734
1 : the reanimated body of a dead person believed to come from the grave at night and suck the blood of persons asleep
2 a : one who lives by preying on others

Like I said before, its the curse that MAKES them a vampire. What you are saying makes good sense and I comend you on that, but the reference to what Janos was saying, is what everyone else called/named them AFTER the curse, we dont know the name of the race before the curse. We have no reference other than ancients. True Janos do refer to them as Vampires but Janos would not say ancient. I'm just simply saying that all of them are vamps not just Janos.

Darakari
22nd Oct 2002, 23:46
I am aware of Earth's definition of vampire. I'm just saying that in the world of NOSGOTH, Vampire is the name of the "Ancient" race. But that's just my opinion based on the information provided in the game.

And as expressed in my comments above, I do agree with the opinions of others expressed above that regardless of whether vampirism is passed along magically, by bite, or by blood transfer - I do think that the end result is that Vampire (the race) DNA is transferred to the infected host. This DNA slowly takes over the human body in an attempt to change the human body into the original form of the Vampire Race. However, the process is not perfect, that's why we see such wide variety in the looks of various humans infected, and even resulting in severely transformed mutants. Despite the large variety of changes, cloven feet and hands seems to be very common.

keepittrue
23rd Oct 2002, 08:22
Well that makes sense too, I can see that.

Vampmaster
24th Oct 2002, 09:26
Originally posted by Darakari
I am aware of Earth's definition of vampire. I'm just saying that in the world of NOSGOTH, Vampire is the name of the "Ancient" race. But that's just my opinion based on the information provided in the game.

And as expressed in my comments above, I do agree with the opinions of others expressed above that regardless of whether vampirism is passed along magically, by bite, or by blood transfer - I do think that the end result is that Vampire (the race) DNA is transferred to the infected host. This DNA slowly takes over the human body in an attempt to change the human body into the original form of the Vampire Race. However, the process is not perfect, that's why we see such wide variety in the looks of various humans infected, and even resulting in severely transformed mutants. Despite the large variety of changes, cloven feet and hands seems to be very common.

Yeah, that was what I was trying to say. And obviously the curse is transfered as well.

FireSnake
9th Nov 2002, 12:00
Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
He isn't totally ancient...sure he's old, but he isn't Janos-old. :p

He's not even Kain or Vorador-old. :p

Shadow Man
9th Nov 2002, 17:25
I'm sorry to say it but a lot of what has been said in this thread is wrong. It says so in the manual for Soul Reaver 1
the humans think it is a disease of the blood that makes us what we are. Fools the blood only feeds the bodies we live in. To create a vampire, one must steal a soul from the abyss. It is the body that demands the blood sacrifice; our souls gain their advantage from the powers of the underworld. As we matured, our earthly bodies evolved into a higher form. We assumed the powers and nobilities of the Dark Gods.