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Danventry
28th Sep 2002, 03:40
Whoever was the genius to ghost this (or can ghost this) FM, please, can you give me an idea of how you passed the gaurds in the pool area? I've tried running, creeping, swimming, tons of things! What am I forgetting?

Deadfall
28th Sep 2002, 14:03
This mission is ghostable and I think I remember the area you're talking about. Im not sure how I did it. I remember creeping behind the idle pivoting guard and then hastily creeping to the wall for shadow. Then wait for the patrolling guard to come by and then make your way up to the other end of the pool. You could try jumping into the pool and using the water to your advantage too. I reported my ghost on this and you can find it in the FM ghost results, section 2, page 1. Look for Waterlogged by tacky (me) and I also believe Vanguard ghosted this. I don't know if I put in a description of how I ghosted the guards you're talking about; Vanguard might have.

Danventry
28th Sep 2002, 17:02
You must of crept behind the pivoting gaurd and went in the women's changing room. That's how I just got away with it. Spoiler Question:
I've yet to find a rope arrow to use for the secret in the Accountant's room. Does anyone know where there are some? The only place I haven't been is the men's changing room and the Boarding room (which is where I'm going now). I dropped by the awards room, but found out I need to go through the locked door on the other side to get the gold. Other than the objectives, what are the changes from normal to expert? B/c I'm playing on Normal to remember where everything was, and now I'm going to go to Expert to ghost when I finish this. And another question: I seem to be a long ways below the Expert $$$ objective (I'm around 850). I might ask later where some is.

Deadfall
28th Sep 2002, 17:31
Yes, you did it right. I remember now it was the changing room on the side of the wall, not the other end of the pool. I had to go around I think to get to the other end of the pool.

I forget where you can find a rope arrow in this mission, but take note that this mission cannot be perfect thieved; at least by the ghost attempts I, and others have done. There's some loot in this sitting room-type area with alot of AI standing around and not enough shadow to creep up to one of the tables and get the wine or goblets or whatever it was. I think there's alot of places like this where loot is impossible to get without alerting AI.

clayman
28th Sep 2002, 18:43
Yes, this mission is definitely ghostable. I was the first to do it on the old forum. I don't remember having trouble going clockwise around the pool(against the route of the patrol) and entering the men's changing room, instead of the methods described above. The only really interesting thing Ghosting-wise was the Accountant's office and the room below the statue, that required some timing, and that old Ghosting trick of hugging the AI's hip on their off side so that when they pivot away from you they never see you. Deadfall, I'll need to check back on this one; I don't remember missing any loot in that room, even in the party room with all the people. The purse on the guard can be gotten from behind once you get the Board Room key or whatever it is. Or are you talking about the loot in the room with the two people and the fake gala prizes ? (Was there even loot in that room with the fakes?) My memory's not so good on this one. But its a fair Ghost, I remember that this was one of the first T2 FMs and I was encouraged that it was designed to allow Ghosting. :)

Deadfall
28th Sep 2002, 20:26
Clayman - Are you saying this mission can be perfect thieved? I checked the old FM thread and found your report. You were missing about 200-300 loot. I was almost certain this mission could not be perfected. I'll have to check back myself too. Thanks for the clarification.

clayman
28th Sep 2002, 22:58
Deadfall - You are correct I'm sure. I have a very foggy memory of most FMs; I'm surprised I remembered as much as I did to even reply to this thread. No, I didn't say I PT'ed the mission, only that I don't remember any trouble spots in that particular room. But you have been a much more painstaking and skillful Ghost than I, based on your Ghost reports; so if it foiled you, I'm sure it did me as well. :)

Deadfall
30th Sep 2002, 17:48
Originally posted by clayman
you have been a much more painstaking and skillful Ghost than I, based on your Ghost reports

No way clayman. :) Your discoveries in ghosting Thief Gold/Thief 2 and a number of FM's shows that you have more experience. And you're the one who invented ghosting itself ^_^

clayman
30th Sep 2002, 23:27
"Invented"...heh, stumbled over it in the dark in my heavy noisy boots, more likely. :)

Thanks Deadfall, I think I'll go back into Waterlogged and sneak about a bit, just for a look see. I'm a bit foundered on Smuggler's Request right now anyway. Will report back to HQ tonight. :)

clayman
1st Oct 2002, 23:02
Deadfall - I'm lazy, I loaded a quicksave from Waterlogged rather than replay it to see about the party room.

My quicksave is from Hard difficulty, but all the AI were still awake and present in the room, so I had "ghosted" it on Hard(notice the small "g" since it doesn't really count). The question is : how many AI are there on Expert ? I had cleaned all the loot from the room, and all six were still standing. North there was a Mechanist guard and a noble, facing south, the guard pivots. The noble had a purse that can be picked from behind via the double doors. East is one stationary human guard, no loot. West are stationary two nobles, don't remember if they had anything, but they are in darkness and I walked all around them. Southwest corner is a single metalhead facing north. There were goblets and a plate I think on all three tables, two south and one center. The center table is in the light, but I was able to lean/frob everything off of it. The tables east of the metalhead weren't a problem either.

I guess to really verify this I need to replay the whole mission on Expert correctly, but I thought I would just let you know what I found so far. :)

Deadfall
1st Oct 2002, 23:11
clayman - How much loot did you collect? I don't know if there's less loot on Normal and Hard, but there's 2355 total loot on expert. Have you come across any areas where loot is impossible to get?

clayman
2nd Oct 2002, 01:32
Deadfall - I really focused only on that party room since that was the issue as I saw it. No, I haven't tried to Perfect Thief the mission, nor do I know the "impossible" sections, if any. I guess I need to re-read my Ghsot report from long ago, get motivated, and try to re-do it again, and post the results. :)

Anarchic Fox
4th Oct 2002, 20:58
There is a rope arrow in a chest in the Accountant's secret area.

Also, I don't think it's possible to reach the loot requirement on Expert... there simply isn't enough of it in the level.

Danventry
4th Oct 2002, 22:40
Sorry I haven't replied, but I couldn't get on the internet for a week. Anyways, So far I've almost Ghosted this mission. The only money I had trouble with is oen wine bottle in the meeting room (or whatever, the one with about 8 AI). I have to use an Inviso potion (boughtat the begining of the game) to get it. I'm missing 100 loot though! Does anyone know where a hard-to-find 100 loot is? I have no pick-pockets left (that aren't archers) and no secrets left. It's like some gold disappeared out of nowhere! Does anyone know where it could be?

clayman
4th Oct 2002, 23:31
Anarchic Fox, I dunno what you are talking about exactly...I got 2055 of 1655 required without much of a fuss. :)

I'm far behind you, Danventry. I made a quick Ghosting run of it(38:43), on Expert and got 2055/2355, missed Al-Ta'zer's diary(don't know if I've ever found the damn thing in previous plays), 11/12 pockets. Also, just like you, could not figure out how to get the 50 loot gold bottle on the far end of that meeting room table. I refuse to use inviso, but I tried a variety of ropes and moss, with no success. But I still got the loot from the front gate. That still leaves me 150 loot and 2 secrets behind you. Maybe only 100 if I begrudgingly use the dreaded green inviso. Perhaps between us we can Perfect Thief this one, who knows. :)

This game, it keeps me humble sometimes. :)

Anarchic Fox
5th Oct 2002, 00:24
That's strange. Maybe I was thinking of "The Bath House"...

Danventry
5th Oct 2002, 00:54
Hmmm... There's gold in the front of the building? Maybe I miss counted my pick pockets... Anyways, in case you're wondering some about the Keeper... Remember that Keepers travel where theives travel and are even secret where they do. Look up in the downs. Anyways, if anyone reading this wants spoiled: sewers; secret tile on ceiling . clayman: Can you tell me where that last bit of gold is? I thought I looked out front but I didn't see any gold when I did a BJ run. Maybe I missed something?

clayman
5th Oct 2002, 18:59
Anarchic Fox - Maybe you were confusing this with BathHouse, and its understandable; I learned from Komag that the first three or four Thief 2 FMs designed were all similarly plotted with baths and pools and gala trophies etc. Some sort of contest between designers right after Thief 2 came out. :)

Danventry - I may have goofed up about the loot at the front gate. I thought one of the guards had a purse as well as arrows to pick. I may be wrong. I'll go back and get the diary, after you told me I remember now where you are talking about, I've found it before and just forgot. Unless there's some itty-bitty ring submerged in the sewers I don't have a clue where the last loot is. :)

Danventry
7th Oct 2002, 22:42
:D :eek: Actually, there is an itty-bitty ring in the sewers! Theres one end of the underwater tunnel that is a small round hole. On the opposite side of the room is a ring. What did I miss?