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TheElderGodofNosgoth
25th Sep 2002, 17:10
In the begging of Blood Omen there was a cut scean in which Vorador killed six of the nine Pillar Guardians. What I want to know is which guardians were they? Actually what I want to know is which ones were spaired. Were the Guardian of Ballance, Ariel, the Guardian of Death, Mortanious, and the Guardian of Time, Mobious sparied? Or was it the Guardian of Ballance Ariel, the Guardian of Mind, Nupraptor, and the Guardian of Death, Mortanious? Or is it Guardian of Conflict, Melik, Guardian of Time, Mortanious, and Guardian of Death, Mobious?

That was my first question. My second is was Melik, Guardian of Conflict always the Guardian of Conflict? He was not appointed to the position was he? The reason why I am asking this one is that if he was always the Guardian of Conflict why did Vorador not kill him?

Sorry for the bad spelling by the way,

warpsavant
25th Sep 2002, 18:07
Malek, Mortanius, and Moebius are the survivors.

Gaurdians are choosen at birth. This means Malek must've always been the Gaurdian of Conflict. Its possible though that as Kain was ignorant of his Gaurdianship that Malek was also ignorant of his own Gaurdianship (during his life), but there is no evidence of this.

Vorador did not kill Malek because he wanted to embarass him.

Preacher
25th Sep 2002, 18:42
Yep, it's kinda sad the way the guardians treated Malek after that. Considering it wasn't even his fault he was delayed. I wonder why he didn't explain that it was Moebius' fault?

Anyway, I believe at the start of SR2 you can see the pictures and names of the Guardians in the big murals on the walls.

warpsavant
25th Sep 2002, 18:57
There are no names for the Gaurdians Vorador killed. There are pictures of Vorador killing them, but no names and no one is 100% sure what picture is what Gaurdian. (i.e. States, Balance)

We could always name them after the Gaurdians in Preachers crew. ;)

Preacher
25th Sep 2002, 23:13
lol. You know it's a shame you didn't join, I think you would have made a damn fine Guardian. There's still an opening for member of "The Elite Six" if you're interested. :cool:

Anyways, I really do feel sorry for Malek. Poor guy really has been through a lot, hasn't he?

Malek:
It is not often that a man sees his own corpse, it is a sobering experience.

necropotence
26th Sep 2002, 11:14
Ummm... Warp if Malek, Mobius, and Morty were the only survivor's of V's attack what about Nupraptor? He was'nt dead.

Preacher
26th Sep 2002, 15:42
All those guardians were replaced later. Malek, Mortanius and Moebius were the original members of the circle of six. Let's not forget, that when Ariel was murdered Kain was just being born, where he was chosen to be balance. As were the others.

warpsavant
26th Sep 2002, 18:14
Nupraptor wasn't dead because he wasn't even born yet. As the 6 Gaurdians Vorador kills die, the following Gaurdians are born to replace the ones getting killed: Nupraptor, Ariel, Azimuth, Bane, Dejoule and Anacrothe. These 6 join armor Malek and Morty and Moebius to form the Co9.

Divine Shadow
26th Sep 2002, 23:14
Originally posted by warpsavant


There are pictures of Vorador killing them, but no names and no one is 100% sure what picture is what Gaurdian. (i.e. States, Balance) -

Damn, wish Soul Reaver 2 was working on my computer at the moment, so I could get a screenshot to show this.

In the first room of the game, where Raziel meets Moebius the Time-Git, there are the six murals of the guardians who snuffed it in Vorador's attack. On one of them, one of the women, she is adorned with a broach bearing the symbol that is only present in one other place, on the Nature Pillar. This seems to greatly hint that she was the Nature Guardian.

Originally posted by Preacher


Yep, it's kinda sad the way the guardians treated Malek after that. Considering it wasn't even his fault he was delayed. I wonder why he didn't explain that it was Moebius' fault?

I'd like to know this too. Mortanius always seemed... well, Just and Fair. I can't help but think that maybe he never knew of Moebius' restraining Malek.

Or perhaps he asked Malek to explain. Oh, that would have been good:

Mortanius - "Malek!? Where WERE You?"
Malek - "In a room with Moebius, where we stopped to talk to Raziel."
Mortnaius - "Raziel? Our now dead Sarafan Raziel?!"
Malek - "No. ANOTHER Raziel. He was blue, you see, blue and had no pants. He was undead. Not the dead Raziel, the blue one..... And he had a glowy sword on his arm. And BIG white eyes...... And three fingers on each hand. And no mouth. And he spoke to us with Raziel's voice. The Raziel he killed..... You see, Raziel killed Raziel..... but one didn't have any pants on... you do understand, don't you... why are you looking at me like that....?"

With an explanation that utterly unbelievable, and for his gratituous use of the word 'Pants', I'd probably damn him on the spot too. I mean, YOU were stopping a blue Sarafan General who was in two places at once and not wearing any pants?

Mortanius - "For failing the Circle...." Etc.

Preacher
27th Sep 2002, 16:12
lol, Divine Shadow.

TG_Syd
27th Sep 2002, 18:25
ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One question: What was the weapon that Vorador used to kill the circle??? It Couldn't have been the Reaver because Raziel was killing his former bretheren(sp?) with it in the other room(unless I have the time line confused.):confused:

Umah Bloodomen
27th Sep 2002, 18:31
The sword Vorador used was the Bone Reaver. It is a more stocky (meaning shorter) replica of the actual reaver with no magical properties.

TG_Syd
27th Sep 2002, 18:33
Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
The sword Vorador used was the Bone Reaver. It is a more stocky (meaning shorter) replica of the actual reaver with no magical properties.

Thx...I believe I read about it on Blincoln's site :cool:

warpsavant
27th Sep 2002, 19:18
thats funny Shadow. Okay we know one chick is apparently Banes Mum, but what of the other 5?

BadGuysAlwaysWin
30th Sep 2002, 00:00
Uhm... we have no reason to believe that becoming a Guardian grants you immortality. The only ones whom we are SURE are "immortal" (as in don't die of age) are the only ones that make sense: the Pillar of Time and the Pillar of Death. We have no reason to believe that Ariel and crew were chosen directly after Vorador slew those members of the Circle. If the Pillars granted immortality, then Janos would not have been the only one left. If you remember in SR2:

Janos: For thousands of years, I have waited... alone here, losing faith...
At the time of the Binding, nin guardians were called to serve the Pillars. And I was summoned as the tenth guardian - the keeper of the Reaver, the weapon of our salvation.
Over time, our race died out. Until I alone remained... sustained only by my obligation to you, and by my guardianship of the blade.

Raziel: And the other nine? Why did their guardianship non sustain them?

Janos: I don't know.

So all the information that we have shows that being a Guardian of a Pillar does not give immortality. We don't know why Moebius and Mortanius are immortal; perhaps Moebius is sustained by the Elder God, and Mortanius by Hash'ak'gik. But that is also just a guess.

Also, remember that in BO1 they did many things that don't match up to the guidelines given later simply because Silicon Knights did NOT plan their sequels in the way they actually turned out. According to the Silicon Knights website FAQ of BO, located here (http://siliconknights.com/heritage/faq/faqmisc.htm), in response to the question Is Malek of the Sarafan a member of the Circle of Nine?, the site gives this answer:

Yes, he his. Originally "recruited" to protect the Circle, he came to embody the spirit of conflict, and became that pillar's "representative" in Nosgoth.

And that is the official word on it. He was "recruited" to protect the Circle, and CAME to EMBODY the spirit of conflict. The whole "chosen at birth" thing came in the sequels, and Malek does not fall under it.

Anubis_Orr
30th Sep 2002, 01:04
Actually we do know that becoming a Guardian grants you immortality, thanks to Amy :) darien_specter, warpsavant, and myself had a big dicussion over it with me saying that it didn't and them saying it did, both sides brought up good points but in the end Amy was called forth :) and settled it. The Guardians are granted an extreme form of longevity for their Guardianship, so for instance the Guardians that were summoned after Vorador killed the 6 could still be the ones that are in BO1, and don't forget Mortanius and Moebius are both still human and aren't exempt from the laws that govern that (Mortanius may be Guardian of Death but he is NOT dead, just looks it).

As for the other Ancient Guardians, they were chosen from birth, thus be the only set of Ancient Guardians (almost immediately after the Pillars were forged the Ancients were cursed) so they were around so long that EVERY TRACE of them and their race was wiped out, plus I think we may find that there may have been some foul play there, they may not all have had a structure like Janos or may have wandered from their keep and met an end.

And SK's info page is not a Bible, everything there is not holy writ, the game has evolved and changed and things that weren't what they were then have become more.

Just a moment and I'll try to find that thread to which I made reference

[Edit]Hmm, well I think that thread was on the old forums and wasn't brought over to the new ones, but if darien, warp, or any other who saw the thread comes by I'm sure they can attest to what I've said concerning the guardians.

Umah Bloodomen
30th Sep 2002, 05:47
I thought the thread referenced longevity in a guardians life rather than immortality.

**shrugs*** I only remember the thread vaguely though so don't mind me. ;)

Unless of course, the Ancients set it up that the guardians would have to be murdered to be ousted from their positions and allow new guardians to take over.

I mean think about it, every guardian was murdered (although one still inahbits his armor spiritually), none of them died naturally. Sounds a bit fishy to set up an elite group of sorcerers like cattle at a butcher shop, don't you think? (That's our Janos though :D).

6, were murdered by Vorador (early guardians), 3 were murdered by Morty (as himself and/or as Hash) (Ariel, Anacrothe and Malek's fusion), and 6 were taken out by Kain (Azimuth, Dejoule, Bane, Nupraptor, Moebius, Morty).

Anubis_Orr
30th Sep 2002, 16:52
Exactly right Umah, Amy explained it as an EXTREME form of longevity allowing them to live for centuries or more.

I don't think it was the Ancients who arranged for the death of the Guardians, it all seems to have been planned by the Hylden, think about it.... they arrange to kill the last Ancient in Nosgoth (that we know of) causing Vorador to take his revenge on the Circle (the first and only occurence of a Circle member being murdered [with the exception of Kain's quest because of the circumstances surrounding the skewing of their minds]) and thus arranging for new Guardians, these same Guardians are still present five centuries later (no other reports of an attack on the Circle) and they are twisted by Nuprator's psychic blast and Kain is forced to kill them to restore the Pillars leading him to that climatic moment where he has to choose life or death... a no-win situation as we now know. The Hylden are nothing if not patient, but I guess it's easy to be patient when you're immortal :D