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View Full Version : FM: A Smuggler's Request - Where's the key to the torture chamber?



Vanguard
25th Sep 2002, 06:09
I've been scrounging for a long time and finally gave up. I cannot get into the torture chamber. The door to get in is across from the door to the safe room. Even when not ghosting, I cannot lure out the guard inside.

Nightwalker
25th Sep 2002, 13:12
You mean the door off of the stairwell that eventually gets you to the elevator down to the Torture room area? It unlocks with the "Saferoom" key, which you find on the guard inside the room with the Vault controls. :)

Vanguard
25th Sep 2002, 16:54
I had figured on doing the safe room later. Kind of stupid to have a key labelled "safe room" open the torture chamber. At least the other multiple door key was called a "master" key. Oh well, off to rob the vault. Any more objectives in the long list and the text size would get too small to read. Thanks for the tip.

Vanguard
25th Sep 2002, 21:09
Okay, got the key and toted the Captain's butt back to the smuggler's house. There was no identification that this was the Captain but his was the only body writhing on the rack.

Now I'm supposed to find some other Captain and dump him into the sewers. Yet nothing I read gave me a means to identify him. I tried tapping and lugging the guy in the bedroom in the prison (with the sleeping gal on the bed) but he wasn't *the* Captain. Nor was the guy down in the torture chamber office. These are the only 2 uniquely clad AIs in the mission. The others are bluecoats, greencoats, archers, and whatnot but they are not uniquely identified.

Since the author didn't bother to identify the unconcious bodies, not even going back in non-ghost mode would help because I still cannot identify this other captain.

Nightwalker
25th Sep 2002, 23:41
This was a first mission and a few things weren't perfect, such as not having a label on these AI. The guy you need to dump is the one in the bedroom where you found the keys to the guardhouse. It sounds like you already tried him, though. I've never heard of this objective not working for anyone. Did you take him down to the spot with the spiders? I think that's where he's supposed to go.

Vanguard
26th Sep 2002, 04:44
Hmm, could be that I am supposed to dump in in a *specific* area of the sewer tunnels. The objective mentions spiders so I'll try to dump him there.

RiCh
26th Sep 2002, 08:24
Although I don’t particularly enjoy being called ‘stupid’ :rolleyes: I’m well aware of the mistakes I made in Smuggler’s! And if I’ve learnt anything from that level, it’s the importance of having quality beta testers to help find all those ‘stupid’ mistakes. I’m sure you’ll find that ‘Art’ although far from perfect, has many less mistakes because of this!

As Nightwalker points out this was my first attempt at a level for a computer game. And my knowledge about creating them before was zero. Although flawed I’m still proud that I actually managed to create it and give something back to the Thief community.

After reading about what mistakes I did make in that level, either form off the forums or through email. I did start up work on a patched version of this level. But I wanted to be worth a second download and not merely a patched up version. So I totally re-design the level to make it far less linear and hopefully better to play. Unfortunately I had a hard drive failure lost this version but also an undead level I’d been working on for over 3 months. After a break I decided to start work on ‘Art’ so I never did get around to releasing a patched up version of this level.

Most people can look past the flaws in this level and still enjoy and appreciate it, and I hope you can also? I think I’ve learnt from the mistakes I made in this level and hopefully that will show in my future FMs!

Thanks for playing my FM!

Nightwalker
26th Sep 2002, 12:11
RiCh, you may see the level as flawed, but that is just because you are a perfectionist! There is very, very little wrong with Smuggler and most everyone loves it just the way it is! There's a couple of little things that it's hard to figure out the first time, like who's who, but there's absolutely no need to rework it! It will always be one of my favourite FMs. :)

Peter_Smith
26th Sep 2002, 13:30
I agree completely with Nightwalker. Smuggler's request is a great mission, and almost unbelievable as first mission. A few things about it puzzled me at first, but I rconsidered these as challenges rather than flaws. Sure, if we had beta tested it the mission might have been a little smoother, but not ny much. No changes needed. Keep's 'em on their toes. Cheers.:)

Northren
26th Sep 2002, 20:01
I started playing Smuggler's Request the other night and I must say that this is a cool FM and I'm enjoying it very much. Thank you, RiCh. I'm really impressed that this was your first FM! Very detailed architect, well designed and a good storyline, too. Although it is linear, as you pointed out in the briefing, it is still immersive and has many twists and turns to keep you guessing. The "reward" for not being afraid of heights is great! I'm not a ghoster, so it's come in handy, especially inside the guardhouse. And I almost didn't notice it after I used it the first time. :) Now, if it only worked on the bots! :D

With over two hours of gameplay and only 2 of 11 secrets found and one objective X'd (find your weapons), I'm still going strong and looking forward to playing it some more tonight!

:)

Vanguard
26th Sep 2002, 22:27
Sorry for the stupid word. I was getting frustrated and a bit bored: dumping unindentified bodies into the sewer to see which might checkoff that objective, get to the ship and figure out the "combination" only having to come back to get the logbook, can't tap some AI but can tap others, a first alert by one guard sets another onto full alert, creeping behind a guard on a tile floor but without a sound sets him off on 2nd alert, requiring Garret to get trapped to continue the mission (the jail cell), can't douse a torch without causing a 2nd alert but the one next to it is okay, doors that are invisible to guards, and so on.

It is a large mission and that I really enjoyed. For the most part, it has been a tough but fun mission to ghost (although failed because of the spiders in the sewer). As a first-time FM and without beta testers (which doesn't guarantee every flaw gets discovered), it's a da<i></i>mn good FM. When ghosting it, it can be, at times, a da<i></i>mn frustrating FM, too (and that's not a bad thing; it wouldn't be memorable if it was easy). Ghosting goes beyond normal gameplay and can get very frustrating, so that frustration can bubble out in comments regarding the FM. After all, if your FM didn't inspire an emotional reaction, it wasn't much of an FM.

RiCh
27th Sep 2002, 08:46
Thanks Vanguard, I understand your frustration. It’s the same frustration I feel when I see people such as yourself, becoming unstuck in the same places time and time again due to mistakes I really should’ve noticed. Again, beta testing a level IMO is a must to help eradicate most if not all of those annoying bugs!

It’s also a shame I didn’t know about the Eidos Forums or the ghosting rules that are played out here when I created this FM. If I did, I’d have made the level fully ghostable, as I too am a fan of ghosting the Eidos way now! My new Mansion level you’ll be pleased to know will follow these rules more than my previous FM. Now knockouts, banner slashing and I’m hoping 1st level alerts and yellow cameras will all now fail the optional ghost objective.

Cheers

Peter_Smith
27th Sep 2002, 17:31
Rich,

To be sure there is no misunderstanding of the ghost rules, we call comments like "Must've been rats" first level alerts. Corresponding to these are spider chirps, watcher clicks while green, and zombie moans while stationary. Those first level alerts are all OK under the ghosting rules - the idea being that the AI does not really know that he saw or heard you. It is just a suspicion. Hunting alerts, such as sword raised, spider running, claws raised, and comments like "You can't hide forever." are a bust. We call these second level alerts.:)

Vanguard
27th Sep 2002, 20:08
Hmm, I'd rather see an FM get built with normal playability in mind first. Making a mission ghostable might lead to too many easy outs; we ghosters would probably discover them quick. Ghosting a situation that wasn't made with an "out" to deliberately make it ghostable is part of the fun (and frustration) of playing FMs. Part of the fun of ghosting is discovering an unplanned "out" or creating one. Of course, going the other way (as seems evident by some authors) to deliberately make the FM unghostable usually doesn't make for such good normal gameplay, either (I'm not into fight FMs where you must slash and slay every AI; those get boring real quick).

Vanguard
27th Sep 2002, 20:10
Okay, after even more scrounging, I still cannot find the key to open the unpickable door to the captain's quarters aboard the ship. Is there a key? Or do I bash down the door (which will alert the guards)?

Nightwalker
27th Sep 2002, 20:59
You have to get into the small cabin at the other end of the ship. You can rope arrow up to the top of it and there's hatch that picks open. The key you need is on the map table inside. :)

Vanguard
27th Sep 2002, 21:20
I've been in that "bow" room and never saw a key. I've seen the compass, sextant, and divider but no key. I've been in that room a total of 4 times now but I'll look again. The key must be very hard to see. Thanks for the hint.

clayman
27th Sep 2002, 23:23
"Never design an FM so hard to Ghost that it makes Vanguard anxious." One of the many Commandments of Ghosting. Watch and beware. :)

Vanguard
28th Sep 2002, 06:21
I found the key (a brown red key on a brown table --- uffda). I'm glad no one is watching me ghost these FMs. I'd be embarrassed to show up on America's Funniest Videos while squatting on the map table and circling around while "clicking" on the map top. Watchers of such a video would wonder, "What the he<i></i>ll is he doing? Pretending to be a chicken pecking at seed? Hmm, time for his medication again. Looks like we'll have to double the dose this time."