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View Full Version : Weak NPC AI in BO2?



BadGuysAlwaysWin
23rd Sep 2002, 22:27
Hey, I've just been playing through BO2 again, and I realized something. Now, I have killed absolutely NO civilians at all, even the chained ones (the only time I drank a civilian was the dead thug Umah chained to the wall in the training Slums level). And I have timed it so whenever a Sarafan guard would try and kill a civilian, I have stopped it (the Bishop's mansion, when you enter the "library" and find 1 dead civilian, 1 living civilian and a guard who is about to kill the civilian, for example). Even still, civilians will run from me. I mean, they are running from a Sarafan, I kill the Sarafan, they scream and run from me. Even in Soul Reaver if you didn't kill any humans they would turn friendly and help you out by allowing you to "sip". While I know they couldn't do the same thing here, maybe a bonus or a secret or something? Seriously, playing through the game on Skilled blocking without the Soul Reaver/Iron Armor and only drinking slain warriors is TOUGH. A little "way to go!" would be nice, lol.
What do you guys think? I know its a specific, but still...

Power reaver
24th Sep 2002, 07:40
I havent played BO2 , but the ans to your question is quite obvious .

In BO Kain damned Nosgoth by not restoring the pillars , he chose to rule over it , naturally he wasent kind to the humans . One of the last dailogs states

"At last I Realised that Vorador was correct , we are GODs ...Dark GODS . And it is our duty to thin the herd . MUHAHAHAHAHAHA"
- Kain (BO)

To thin the herd means to control and defeat humans , and definately thats what he did . He also brought back the Vamps to the land , not to mention killed William . Thus defining him evil in the eyes of men .

Besides that he looks like a Vampire (DUHHH....:p ) , and the people are afraid of them , thus even though you save them it wouldent have made sense if they offered you blood or something cause you have been evil to them for the past 200 of the 400 yrs .

In SR and Raziels case , Raz was a creature that looked both Angelic and Demonic and because he was wiping out the Vampires . If he didnt touch the humans , they would regard him as an ally , if he did he would be another Vampire for them .

On top of that the humans hadent seen a creature as Raz before , so obviously they didnt know what to expect from him . Thats why they attacked him 1st , if he didnt do anything then it meant that he was good .

Besides the peasant mind is HIGHLY gullable ;) .

BadGuysAlwaysWin
24th Sep 2002, 14:01
See, you haven't played the game. Kain has been dead and forgotten for 200 years. And he apparently DOESN'T look like a vampire, because in the beginning even guards won't attack you unless you draw your weapon, and even then they will say "put that weapon away!"
And I said that I know they can't do the same thing here, as in offer their blood, but a bonus or some help would be nice. All these people are sufferring from unrest under the tyrannic rule of the Sarafan!

BadGuysAlwaysWin
24th Sep 2002, 19:29
SLIGHT SPOILERS, I guess
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And... Raz looked Angelic? OK, if I see a guy with no intestines, blue skin, pointed ears, white eyes, a cowl on his jaw, with tatterred bat wings and 3 spiked claws, I would NOT consider him Angelic. Even in his pure form Raziel had BAT WINGS, which is a sign of Demonic attachments. Now, JANOS looked somewhat "angelic". NOT Raziel. The thing was that in that game they were oppressed, and thus looked to whoever would fight the Oppressors as a savior. Even in BO2 there are many humans who are helping the Cabal, by whatever means possible. And, true, there are those who still hate Vampires. However, if you are taught by the Sarafan that Vampires are evil, and then a Vampire saves you when a Sarafan is trying to kill you for no reason, then you would feel at least SOME gratitude for the Vampire!! That is just realism, folks.
But still, awesome game, probably one of the best action games I've ever played, if not THE best. Great job with the game, and if you are reading this Chris, maybe add shapechanging or RPG elements in the third one? Not just for aesthetic purposes, but maybe, like in BO, certain weapons kill faster but give little/no blood, certain weapons can't kill but stun easily? And PLEASE let us travel at will to different locations. Like Zelda! Add a few villages, let us explore, PLEASE!!!!!

Serul
24th Sep 2002, 20:37
Originally posted by BadGuysAlwaysWin
...I mean, they are running from a Sarafan, I kill the Sarafan, they scream and run from me...

The peasants always run away if you're holding a weapon or kill something. They're programmed to be scared of you. They haven't programmed the part to "worship" you because you saved them or didn't kill them, into the AI because it wasn't nescesary. You need to kill them all anyway if you want to get the longest blood meter. So what does it matter?

Heck I killed the password gate gaurds because they wouldn't let me through the first time... :p

BadGuysAlwaysWin
24th Sep 2002, 22:16
Well thats my point. They SHOULD have been programmed to be nicer to you if you save them. And peasants hardly boost your Lore meter at ALL. It isn't as hard as you think to go through the game without killing them, since their health contribution is minimal and their lore power is negligable. What I'm saying is that you should get something for playing it the harder way through. I don't mean to whine or anything, but just something cool! In Metal Gear Solid you get to play with a tuxedo. Warcraft III gives you extra scenes of Starcraft. Blood Omen 1 gave you cool titles. It doesn't have to be a million dollars or anything, just something that would reward you for playing it the hard way through. Say, if you win the game without using any lore boxes, killing ANY civilians, not using any weapons, not using Dark Gifts to kill the enemy, and definately not using the Soul Reaver cheat, then you get a couple of extra scenes in the ending, or get to play the game with Vorador's skin instead of Kain's, or something. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be that hard to program a skin change. Just something that would give it replayability value with us Kain-inites, making us beat it with harder and harder stipulations just to get the cool rewards (or downloading a save with all the rewards from blincoln LOL).

Power reaver
25th Sep 2002, 13:19
And... Raz looked Angelic? OK, if I see a guy with no intestines, blue skin, pointed ears, white eyes, a cowl on his jaw, with tatterred bat wings and 3 spiked claws, I would NOT consider him Angelic. Even in his pure form Raziel had BAT WINGS,

Ahhh yes , well it depends on ones view point , you think Raz looks demonic , but I dont . I don know ... I just see so much austerity in him that he looks awesome to me . Besides his Hair style rocks .

And why are you not mentioning the creature part of my post in the last para .

BadGuysAlwaysWin
25th Sep 2002, 18:33
I thought I had discussed the "creature" aspect of your post.
The people don't know that Kain is a Vampire until he drinks blood. That simple. That is the supposed reason that the Cabal needs him (until we have concrete proof of any secret plots of Vorador/etc, I'm going with the official reason). That is why Kain can walk on the streets and even the Sarafan won't attack him in the beginning. Now take an example of Sarafan oppression, like in the Sarafan keep (of course Kain is attacked in this level simply because Marcus had already told the guards to watch out for Kain. After that scene Kain is attacked on sight. Even still, he is an armed stranger in the Sarafan bastion and thus would be obviously attacked).
There is a scene where a Sarafan guard tells a merchant that they will no longer need his goods, even though they already ordered them, and that they won't pay. The merchant threatens to tell "the Council" of this, and the Sarafan kills him "by order of the Sarafan Lord". Now, the merchant starts backing away as the Sarafan guard draws his axe and walks forward. Kain runs up and kill the guard. The merchant was ON THE VERGE of death and even HE knew it, but he still runs in fright from Kain, despite the fact that Kain just saved his life and does NOT appear to be a Vampire.
Once again, I reiterate that Kain does NOT appear to be a Vampire. That is the reason that people don't flee from him regularly. And there are scenes of Sarafan fighting humans, though admittedly these humans are thugs. Still, if you are about to be murdered by a Sarafan and a (seemingly) human man runs up and saves your life, you would probably feel a little indebted.