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Binro_the_Heretic
20th Sep 2002, 16:27
Maybe if we all lobby Eidos hard enough, we can get them to fund a PS2 version of "Startopia" complete with goodies like the fighting pit and the gyro.

(I know, wishful thinking, but a guy can dream...)

MunkeeChum
20th Sep 2002, 18:11
You poor poor thing. He's delusional, someone get him a glass of water....

SkrasherSmasher
20th Sep 2002, 21:13
Both The Sims and Startopia for a console is stupid. Not only does the sims utterly stink like some major garbage, but also on a console it would only rank more.

And I would think controlling the camera it would be hard on a console. RTS is a genre I would wish to keep exclusive to the PC, thank you.

Binro_the_Heretic
21st Sep 2002, 01:03
Hey! don't go knocking "The Sims!"

Anyway, the PS2 version of "The Sims" will be in 3D unlike the isometric sprite graphics of the PC version. You'll also be able to move and rotate the camera in 3D as well.

That's what made me think of "Startopia" for the PS2.

kool_kats_rule
21st Sep 2002, 09:20
I still don't quite csee how startopia would work on a console...

Arctic_Wolf
21st Sep 2002, 17:04
RTS on a console rarely works.

I liked a the original "The Sims", it being a simulation of real-life were you were in total control of their lives. Its also a very good game for sociologists I guess. I didn't mind the Idea of a few expansion packs, until I heard what they contained. Real Life to Soap Opera in a few months. It ruined the game for me. Ahwell.

P.S SkrasherSmasher broke the T.O.U, naughty SkrasherSmasher

Hand-E-Food
23rd Sep 2002, 04:00
I'd have to say the worst RTS port to PS1 was Railroad Tycoon 2. I liked the game on PC. I couldn't read anything on the crappy resolution of PS1. This is an example of PS owners wanting the world. They just shouldn't be entitled to it.

SkrasherSmasher
23rd Sep 2002, 20:59
Pardon? What did I do? I didn't say Startopia was a bad game! I just thought the idea for Startopia on the console was wrong. And I liked The Sims, have it and 2 x-packs, but I eventually found it utterly too easy...

Hand-E-Food
24th Sep 2002, 05:27
P.S SkrasherSmasher broke the T.O.U, naughty SkrasherSmasher

T.O.U. ???

Allan_R
24th Sep 2002, 23:01
a Startopia First Person Shooter would be SWEET!!!!

and with the X-Box's graphics *goes into dream land* :D

Creamy_Goodness
25th Sep 2002, 00:16
I still wish i could control the security columns ... finally teach those memaus....

Ghyron
25th Sep 2002, 00:30
Originally posted by Hand-E-Food
T.O.U. ???

Terms Of Use

Hand-E-Food
25th Sep 2002, 01:11
They just need a Posess Entity ability like in Dungeon Keeper 2. Not just to posess peeps (which you can almost do already), but to posess towers, the Disco DJ, etc. as well.

Has anyone tried Shoulder Vision on someone entering the Holodrome or a Love Nest?

Mucky Foot
25th Sep 2002, 01:16
Startopia First Person Shooter
Please don't misunderstand me when I say this: we considered it. Very briefly - I mean, we consider about three game ideas a day - it's not like it was ever going to actually happen. But you know, what we do is make games, so if you're going to make games you need to sort of practice the thinking muscles every now and then. It's a million miles from actually dreaming about planning to contemplate looking into actually doing something about it.

Anyway, we did have a think about what an FPS in a StarTopia station would be like. Problem is, it's a sniper heaven. Big curving deck, low walls - from any reasonably open position, you can shoot at basically anyone from 4 to 8 sections away. Closer sections are fine - the curvature effectively vanishes and you can have fun playing hide-and-seek around the rooms, and do squad-based gameplay and all that FPS-becoming-RTS stuff that is really fun (e.g. in Battlezone 2, which was a great game and sold nothing - hmmm, reminds me of something). But snipers would be such a pain.

Although they're not, not really. Don't know if you've ever noticed, but laser fire in StarTopia actually curves with the station. This was just laziness - we really couldn't work out the maths to get lasers to travel in straight lines (the StarTopia world is actually flat, we just draw it bent, so the lasers would have to travel through the world in curves so that when the world got bent the curves would be bent into straight lines and oooh I've gone cross-eyed).

So actually it might work OK. Sure, you can SEE people from a couple of sections away. But you can't shoot at them because lasers go in curved (er... straight, no, curved, no .... oooh, now one of my eyeballs has twisted completely around) lines. So actually walls would still get in the way. And long-distance aiming would be really strange - if you aimed at the person, you'd miss because you'd actually be firing upwards in the world as well as graphically, but upwards graphically comes down again but it doesn't in the world it just keeps going up and ... nope, my brain's just exploded now.

So yeah, might be interesting. But confusing. Which might be a good thing actually. StarTopia never took itself terribly seriously.

And then there's the whole prospect of someone playing the administrator like you do now AND someone doing the FPS bit at the same time. Because as administrator you never actually control people, you just influence them. So humans could actually be playing some of them, or indeed a whole squad of security Gors or something. Wacky.

Just to reiterate, NONE OF THIS COULD EVER HAPPEN. EVER. NO WAY. Don't ask us to, don't even dream it could happen. But hey it's fun to think of mad games, purely for the mental exercise.

TomF - Muckyfoot coder and innocent dreaming fool.

Mucky Foot
25th Sep 2002, 01:19
I still wish i could control the security columns
One of the many many things we wanted to do, and never got time to. Right-click on a column, left click on the "manual override" button, and where your cursor goes, all the towers in range fire at. How utterly cool would that have been? The power! The power! Mwahahahahaha.

Yet another idea that we didn't have time to do though. Sorry.

TomF - Muckyfoot coder.

Hand-E-Food
25th Sep 2002, 01:48
The sniper problem could be easily fixed: Make the decks less tall. In a FPS, all that air is wasted space (except for moon jumping). The other thing is to make all the rooms slightly taller, if not all the way up to the now low ceiling. I always had trouble with the concept of open roofed rooms anyway. And curved lasers would make it a new challange to aim properly.

Keep the station populated with NPCs who act like they would in StarTopia. Attacking them brings the large security force down on you. But because all the players are criminals fighting criminals, security are happy to let you kill off each other. Bots can include other cirminals and Skrashers. Don't limit weapons to the combat races.

Energy counts for currency and ammo.

All the rooms could have their original functions.
Berths and other hotels are safe havens.
Lockdown Brigs are time out.
Roulesse Wheels can win you extra energy.
Energy Collectors, Recyclers and Power Boosters can be stolen from, but brings security down on you.
General Stores and Dino-O-Mats for food, a necessity.
Security Columns can be hacked and used, leaving you exposed.
Discos are good to hide in.
Sick Bays heal you.
Lavotrons are an interesting hiding place.
And of course, Combat Stores provide you with weapon upgrades.
Alcohol provides pain resistance. (Pain could be represented by red-vision, ala Doom).
Computer Stores could also provide upgrades of sorts.
Leisure Stores could provide armour (shin guards, etc.)

Scuzzy
25th Sep 2002, 20:30
The Gyro and the fighting pit are obviously not in the game, but what do they entail? - no stupid answers like the fighting pit is for fighting, because I kind of get that. Were they designed? And what about these Gomas and Glaoths that I have noticed while modding?

Mucky Foot
25th Sep 2002, 23:53
This has been asked before, but basically:

The gyro was just another fun thing peeps could do - it picked them up and span them round. It was all designed and built and stuff, but the problem was we could never get the peeps to rotate properly inside the thing - they were always off-centre or arms flailing about randomly. And it did just make them happy, like a load of other things such as the holodrome, and we were short of time, so it got cut.

Ditto the fighting pit. That was quite fun, because it had a big cartoony blue guy who would fight the combat races, and we'd have people cheering them on and all that. But we didn't have enough time to do it really well (there's loads of animations to do for hand-to-hand fighting, and crowds cheering, and people getting knocked over, and loads of stuff like that), and again, it was just another fun thing for peeps to do, so again, it had to be binned.

The fighting pit has achieved somewhat mythical status, especially as it appeared in screenshots and everything, but the thing about screenshots is you can't tell that there wasn't actually that much going on, since so few of the animations were wired in. Ditto the screenshots of the gyro - notice how few of them show someone actually using it!

Gomas and gloaths and all the other animals were intended for the biodeck, and we originally wanted to have a whole carnvore/herbivore ecosystem going with herds and hunting and breeding so on. But again, time was too short to do all that, and rather than have a few sad-looking animals just wandering around randomly, we pulled them. Biodeck gets pretty crowded without them as it is.

Me, I wanted to put clouds and rainfall and evaporation and soil fertility and erosion and rivers and all that stuff into the biodeck. But you always finish a project feeling like that - it's the sign of a good game! I'm very happy with what we did achieve.

TomF - Muckyfoot coder.

DoctorX
26th Sep 2002, 21:22
"So its going into the expansion then?" DoctorX innocently asks. Riot ensues.

Mucky Foot
26th Sep 2002, 22:35
Guards! Seize him.

TomF.

Hand-E-Food
26th Sep 2002, 22:36
I reckon that if you made some of those things that you wanted to but didn't have the time, such as the Bio-Deck add-ons, threw in some user missions, enhance this or that, you could probably sell it to everyone who has the game.

Hand-E-Food
26th Sep 2002, 22:38
I'd just like to point out that I stated writing that before TomF posted his message. I would like to retract my statement and hide in the corner.

AlphaOmega
27th Sep 2002, 06:12
Guards! Seize him.
*cough* her *cough*

Tom, your storys fill me with a sense of wonderment and happiness. Please, tell us more.

*The Startopians cluster around Tom's legs as he rocks back and forth in a rocking chair smoking a pipe.*

Yes Tom! Tell us another story! Please?

Heheh... :)

Ct0fDiscord
30th Sep 2002, 01:44
Please Tom? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!

Mucky Foot
1st Oct 2002, 16:29
Yeah like Uncle Tom needs the encoragement ;)

The following lines are just to put the cat among the pidgeons and stand up for the art dept. and in no way moves you any closer to seeing the fighting pit... ever... no really...

Tom said: we didn't have enough time to do it really well (there's loads of animations to do for hand-to-hand fighting, and crowds cheering, and people getting knocked over, and loads of stuff like that)

Sorry mate all the fighting/knockdown animations are complete trouble must be down to those lazy coders ;)

To add to the story a little the peeps fighting would pay for the honour and the workout while the orginal idea also called for two bookie droids standing outside taking bets and useing tic tac (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/static/in_depth/other_sports/features/tic_tac_guide/default.stm) to communicate to each other.

I'll have a hunt and see if I can find the concept drawings at some point.


zebra3... ...out

AlphaOmega
2nd Oct 2002, 03:04
New concept art would make me and StarTopia Post very happy... :)

Ct0fDiscord
3rd Oct 2002, 01:01
And many other people...
I still have recovered from the cancellation of the dk3 project, so anything remotely close it makes me happy :)

Hand-E-Food
3rd Oct 2002, 05:31
They've cancelled DK3?!?!

thud

Mucky Foot
4th Oct 2002, 23:20
Sorry mate all the fighting/knockdown animations are complete

My bad. Yes, they were all complete, but we (the coders) didn't have time to sequence them together smoothly and make them make sense (play the "cheer" anims when the blue guy lost, the "boo" anims when the blue guy won, etc - check out the sequencing of the roulesse wheel anims, and then imagine it's about three times more complex).

Yes, it's all the coders' fault. We beg your humble forgiveness.

No, really - the art guys did a great job and gave us more data than we could poke several very large and very pointy sticks at. I still weep for the poor, ditched haerocan (or whatever it was called) - cute little thing. But there's alwasy a bottleneck somewhere, and for StarTopia it was the code.

And no John - we were never going to do the bouncing cows. Ever. Ever ever ever. Don't even dream it. You surreal person you.

TomF - Muckyfoot coder.

Allan_R
12th Oct 2002, 01:42
Originally posted by Mucky Foot

Please don't misunderstand me when I say this: we considered it. Very briefly - I mean, we consider about three game ideas a day - it's not like it was ever going to actually happen. But you know, what we do is make games, so if you're going to make games you need to sort of practice the thinking muscles every now and then. It's a million miles from actually dreaming about planning to contemplate looking into actually doing something about it.

Anyway, we did have a think about what an FPS in a StarTopia station would be like. Problem is, it's a sniper heaven. Big curving deck, low walls - from any reasonably open position, you can shoot at basically anyone from 4 to 8 sections away. Closer sections are fine - the curvature effectively vanishes and you can have fun playing hide-and-seek around the rooms, and do squad-based gameplay and all that FPS-becoming-RTS stuff that is really fun (e.g. in Battlezone 2, which was a great game and sold nothing - hmmm, reminds me of something). But snipers would be such a pain.

Although they're not, not really. Don't know if you've ever noticed, but laser fire in StarTopia actually curves with the station. This was just laziness - we really couldn't work out the maths to get lasers to travel in straight lines (the StarTopia world is actually flat, we just draw it bent, so the lasers would have to travel through the world in curves so that when the world got bent the curves would be bent into straight lines and oooh I've gone cross-eyed).

So actually it might work OK. Sure, you can SEE people from a couple of sections away. But you can't shoot at them because lasers go in curved (er... straight, no, curved, no .... oooh, now one of my eyeballs has twisted completely around) lines. So actually walls would still get in the way. And long-distance aiming would be really strange - if you aimed at the person, you'd miss because you'd actually be firing upwards in the world as well as graphically, but upwards graphically comes down again but it doesn't in the world it just keeps going up and ... nope, my brain's just exploded now.

So yeah, might be interesting. But confusing. Which might be a good thing actually. StarTopia never took itself terribly seriously.

And then there's the whole prospect of someone playing the administrator like you do now AND someone doing the FPS bit at the same time. Because as administrator you never actually control people, you just influence them. So humans could actually be playing some of them, or indeed a whole squad of security Gors or something. Wacky.

Just to reiterate, NONE OF THIS COULD EVER HAPPEN. EVER. NO WAY. Don't ask us to, don't even dream it could happen. But hey it's fun to think of mad games, purely for the mental exercise.

TomF - Muckyfoot coder and innocent dreaming fool.

OH PLEASE OH GREAT ONES DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you could get a a publisher like M$ to make the game sell Millions on X-Box *goes into dream land*

Allan_R
12th Oct 2002, 01:44
Originally posted by DoctorX
"So its going into the expansion then?" DoctorX innocently asks. Riot ensues.

hey thats not a bad idea.
just make a expansion pack and realese it. or make it as you go and relece parts of it!

Hand-E-Food
12th Oct 2002, 08:14
Allan, you really do have a death wish.

Sunrise
6th Nov 2002, 17:47
Oh goodie! An expansion pack! About 70 people jump on Sunrise

Dark Blood
6th Nov 2002, 19:38
last I knew there wasn't any hope for an expansion pack.

what are you talking about?
what do you know?
WHO do you know
TELL ME!

Help me I need more Startopia! Oh dear Muckyfoot, please hear my cries!

An expansion set, my station for and expansion set!

Sunrise
6th Nov 2002, 20:48
Oh no! He's dillusional too. It must be a contagious fever! < Sunrise sets up a hospital for all the people who actually think there is going to be an expansion pack or Startopia 2. Sunrise lays Binro_the_ Heretic and Dark Blood down in bed.>

Sunrise:We need two hot water bottles and a phyciertrist, STAT

Hand-E-Food
6th Nov 2002, 23:39
It's called Station-Psychosis. It's an advanced form of Lunar-Psychosis.

"Is there a Grey in the house?"

Meddling Grey
9th Nov 2002, 01:14
<Meddling Grey, drinking a cup of something vaguely like coffee, looks up from his position sitting in an empty but oh-so-comfortable bio-pot>

"What are you shouting about? Sick people? Well bugger off! I'm trying to enjoy my drink here!... Yeesh, its unsanitary to eat around sick people. Why does everyone allways come to me with their stupid complaints? Sometimes it really gets disgusting hearing all the..."

<Meddling Grey continues drinking the foaming brown liquid, grumbling quietly about various things>

kool_kats_rule
3rd Dec 2002, 19:25
Originally posted by Sunrise
a phyciertrist

Don't you mean a psychiatrist?

Sunrise
3rd Dec 2002, 20:19
Yes I do mean
a psychiatrist but ging around pointting out evryones spellling mistyakes i caled spaming.

Guest
19th Dec 2002, 15:23
Originally posted by Sunrise
Oh goodie! An expansion pack! About 70 people jump on Sunrise

71

kool_kats_rule
20th Dec 2002, 16:15
Originally posted by Sunrise
Yes I do mean but ging around pointting out evryones spellling mistyakes i caled spaming.

Is it my fault that spelling is the only thing I've learned at school?

Ghyron
22nd Dec 2002, 02:54
Actually, spamming is the creation of totally useless and destructive posts in order to A) divert the topic B) fill the forum with useless junk C) destroy a thread from the inside. Spam is very bad and the forum admistrators have pledged their lives and their computers to fighting this evil menace to the security of the forum. You can rest assured that they are constantly vigilant. No spam escapes their keen eye.

Unless, of course, they are the ones who are spamming.

Hand-E-Food
22nd Dec 2002, 09:43
Mmmmm... Syntax debate...

Muppett
3rd Jan 2003, 04:21
Sometimes RTS are ok on consoles....I love Warcraft 2 on yeh olde Sega Saturn and Comand and Conqueour....ill go now ..... well im old and easly amused .....

Mucky Foot
4th Jan 2003, 00:59
im old and easly amused .....
That's our target audience that is. I kept saying we just needed a couple of coloured cubes floating around the screen making *boop* noises. But would they listen? Nah, they wanted to put textures and music and all that razamatazz in.

Kids these days...

TomF - Muckyfoot coder.

kool_kats_rule
4th Jan 2003, 12:16
Who says it needs colour? Go pong!

AlphaOmega
5th Jan 2003, 02:10
They make cubes with colour on them these days?

Inafiscisis
2nd Feb 2003, 03:13
No, they're still monotone...i hope those cubes gets into the add-on...or sequel...

Hand-E-Food
3rd Feb 2003, 02:19
We do not mention the sequal!

Inafiscisis
3rd Feb 2003, 22:48
Originally posted by Hand-E-Food
We do not mention the sequal!

Uhh...i haven't mentioned any 'sequal'...or at least I can't remember any 'sequal'...

Hand-E-Food
4th Feb 2003, 02:24
Yay. He spotted the spelling mistake. Oh foolish me.

Inafiscisis
4th Feb 2003, 16:41
whatever...

Master_Ryan
11th Feb 2003, 04:31
:confused: whats with the "Evil doom type" atmosphere whenever anyone mentions a sequel or add on for startopia? did someone ask the muckyfoot people on a bad day and get cursed out or what? :confused:

MunkeeChum
11th Feb 2003, 21:17
THe fact that there is not going to be any kind of follow up to startopia generates a bad mood when anyone mentions it.

For reasons why there is not going to a be a.... thingy.. :p read the thread Jilted At the Alter

Hand-E-Food
12th Feb 2003, 02:24
We're just sick of the frustration that there's not going to be a sequel. <bzzz> It makes us edgy whenever it's mentioned. <aaah!>

Overmind
18th Feb 2003, 10:43
There may be a sequel. There may not be a sequel. Odds seem stacked against. Why all the fuss???

DMA57361
18th Feb 2003, 14:26
Cos some of us *points at himself and the other older members* have been hearing talk of expansion packs that won't happen for over a year - it gets a bit annoying.