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CatSuit&Ponytail
19th Sep 2002, 20:40
ASSOCIATED PRESS: Sept. 18 — "A bitter war between rival Maya city-states may have set the stage for the collapse of that once-great civilization, say scientists who translated recently found hieroglyphics on stone stairs in an ancient pyramid in Guatemala."


Click Here (http://www.msnbc.com/news/809704.asp?pne=msn) to read the whole article.

" He says this appears to be a time when the Maya civilization was on the verge of moving to a higher level of organization and consolidating into a single empire.
“However, this didn’t happen. Instead, the giant war went back and forth. After Tikal was sacked, it eventually roared back and crushed Calakmul. And then the Maya world just broke up into regional powers, setting the stage for a period of intensive, petty warfare that finally led to the collapse of the Maya,” said Demarest."

dhama
19th Sep 2002, 21:40
This doesn't surprise me, all civilisations, past and present are just like the sand castle on the beach; they get washed away with the tide (of changes?), Interesting article nevertheless. ;)

GoranAgar
20th Sep 2002, 06:29
It is too bad that this 'we are better than the others'-attitude is still alive.

THE True Lara
20th Sep 2002, 08:32
Unfortunately people are people, and there are always going to be the Conquistadors and Bin-Ladens in history who simply can't accept others for who they are and what they believe, and think of each other as equals. The fact that the Brazilian government has just served 500 indians with an eviction notice to turf them off their last piece of ancestral land only goes to prove my point.
A Star Trek equality-for-all mentality may never be attainable for the majority of the worlds populas, even with all the lessons histoy keeps thowing in our face. I mean, not even everyone in Star Trek thinks that way........
Sad really.

Cyber_Punk_303
20th Sep 2002, 21:46
Whoa!!! How cool! Thanks for the info!!! Very interesting and semi-relating to Tomb Raider (finally!)

I thought the Mayans dissapeared without a trace? Or is that the Inca's? Wasen't there a race that nobody knows how they died? Apparently they all just dissapeared without a trace. No bones were ever found or anything. Anyone know what i'm talking about?

THE True Lara
20th Sep 2002, 22:05
you could be talking about a number of different peoples.

John Carter
21st Sep 2002, 13:48
Thanks, Catsuit, very interesting article. :) I do so enjoy reading new things like that.

The Maya intercinine war hypothesis has been around for about 10 to 15 years, now, replacing the earlier "slash-burn agricultural practices wore out the soil, and the Mayan cities dispersed 'cuz they couldn't feed that many people in one place" theory. This is a new and interesting addition to the mystery, though.

Like all bloody dramas of history long past, it makes for interesting reading. The story of Mesoamerica hasn't been told yet fully, as the histories of long-gone Assyria, the Hittites, the Khemer, etc., have.

This is the first time I've heard the two "superpowers" theory, though, and while it has a lot of merit, and makes sense in the terms of eventually boiling down to two blocs in such a constrained historical arena, I suspect the actual events weren't that clean-cut, as indeed the reality of the former bipolar world of the last half of the last century wasn't. This discovery is fascinating, but we should be careful of superimposing themes we know from our own lifetimes on the times of those long gone, who did not share our set of cultural benchmarks.

History and human nature have the same themes running throughout, and if you don't remember the past, chances are you will repeat mistakes that have been made before. When you do remember the past, you make new ones.



It is too bad that this 'we are better than the others'-attitude is still alive.

This is true about people themselves, but not about their political constructs.

All societies do both good and bad, but some systems are better and some are worse than others, if the measuring stick is total human misery produced or alleviated per system. One should never be blind to faults of one's own system, but the current trend in some quarters to lump all systems into the same pot of "they're all the same, just different labels" is morally and intellectually lazy, and runs the risk of creating enough mock-superior "I'm-above-it-all" apathy to allow the very worst of human nature to prevail.

To carry on with The True Lara's Star Trek analogy, where would you rather live, the Mirror Universe Terran Empire, or the Federation? The people are the same, but which is the better system those same people have created or allowed to exist?

Fortunately for us here in Tomb Raider land, Lara doesn't deal in any of this. She just picks up the pieces and shines them up. ;)

John Carter
21st Sep 2002, 13:57
Originally posted by Cyber_Punk_303
Whoa!!! How cool! Thanks for the info!!! Very interesting and semi-relating to Tomb Raider (finally!)

I thought the Mayans dissapeared without a trace? Or is that the Inca's? Wasen't there a race that nobody knows how they died? Apparently they all just dissapeared without a trace. No bones were ever found or anything. Anyone know what i'm talking about?

That "New Age" mysterious mystical-disappearance theory was popular in the 70's, about the same time as "Pyramid Power" and "Magic Crystal" enthusiasm, pretty much a fantasy of aging "Flower-Power" types who wanted to see the Mayans much as they saw themselves, peaceful dreamers in a mysterious and frigntening world. It was very popularly wide-spread in the US, but never much given any credence by serious scientists, who now know a bit more than they knew then about what really happened.

CatSuit&Ponytail
24th Sep 2002, 14:21
Originally posted by John Carter
Thanks, Catsuit, very interesting article. :) I do so enjoy reading new things like that.



I know it. And soooooooo...........lucky it is TR related, eh? hehehe