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Thorup
14th Sep 2002, 21:49
If you had the power to go back in time, would you then prevent that world war 2 occured?

I wouldn't cos then there would be no commandos games:D

Xcom
14th Sep 2002, 22:30
You read too many Community Chat threads.

DudeItsMe
15th Sep 2002, 05:07
Don't use your brain too much.

1shot1kill
15th Sep 2002, 12:43
Just play Red Alert and you know why you shouldn't :rolleyes:

iakovos
15th Sep 2002, 17:42
As Thucydides had said:
History does not repeat itself but it moves in circular ways making a spiral concept of our existence.
Thus if you had indeed stopped/prevented one single event that would have led to ww2 another single event would have caused the same circumstances to re-appear.

Iakovos :)

1shot1kill
15th Sep 2002, 22:18
Ah so if you would go back in time and destroy germany's warmachine before they start invading the countries around them it will still happen?

ragsy
16th Sep 2002, 02:35
Originally posted by iakovos
Thus if you had indeed stopped/prevented one single event that would have led to ww2 another single event would have caused the same circumstances to re-appear.

What if you went back in time with a nuclear arsenal, and than destroyed the population on earth, surely no single event could bring them back just to have a war !?!

Thorup
16th Sep 2002, 11:19
If I killed Hitler then red alert would become a real event, and not just invented. but maybe ww2 would be invented and we would still have a commandos game:)

and Iakovos that is just a theory. if you try to kill your grandparents before your parents were born, then something like a stone, weather etc. would stop you.

iakovos
16th Sep 2002, 11:44
Originally posted by 1shot1kill
Ah so if you would go back in time and destroy germany's warmachine before they start invading the countries around them it will still happen?

Another country would have taken the place of Germany (like England for example) and the same events would have occured.

The problem is not who or what happened. The problem is the problem itself.

Even if you destroyed everything with a single nuclear blast, as ragsy so brillianty puts it, humans would still be around. You don't know what would happen to the entire planet.

And Thorup, Thucydides does not speak of theories only. He expands his vision on real events.

Even if my grandparents were killed before my parents were born, you cannot be 100% certain that I would not end up been not born. In other words I could have been borned in other circumstances, in another time frame or in another environment.

Iakovos :)

1shot1kill
16th Sep 2002, 18:11
It would never have happened like it did, Germany had spent many years building up their war machine in secret, the only other country who had done the same was Japan and they would never have gotten as far as europe.

Twitch
16th Sep 2002, 19:53
You might be able to alter specific events but not the whole conflict.

1shot1kill
17th Sep 2002, 00:47
Well, let's say someone went back to the end of ww1 and kill Hitler as he leaves the army, never would his idea's have been brought into germany and millions of jews would not have died in the German camps.

Thorup
17th Sep 2002, 07:42
It is dangerous to play with time. Even if I had a time machine I would only observe with some kind of stealth device on me.

iakovos
17th Sep 2002, 12:15
Originally posted by 1shot1kill
Well, let's say someone went back to the end of ww1 and kill Hitler as he leaves the army, never would his idea's have been brought into germany and millions of jews would not have died in the German camps.

You do not know that. Another person could have replaced Hitler and now we could have been talking e.x. about Churchill for instance, for being a mass murderer, for hunting down Germans etc. You don't know what an alternate history could produce.

Iakovos :)

1shot1kill
17th Sep 2002, 12:40
So you think there would have been other people who would have the same ideas as Hitler? Very unlikely

Twitch
17th Sep 2002, 15:45
I've read a few books on alternative outcomes to WW 2 and wrote a couple of articles on the subject from research I did. Whether Hitler or someone else led Germany in the 1930s leads to endless alternatives. There were obviously others who thought like Hitler or he never would have come to power or had a following.

What I've found interesting is that once the war began how many courses it could have taken due to decisions made. What if Germany and Russia had kept their peace pact going indefinitely or longer by a couple years. All the germany power devoted to the Eastern Front would have been available in the West. The Alllies could have never gained a successful foothold on the continent if they'd faced the full power of the Werhmacht and a strong Luftwaffe.

What if Chamberlain did not step down and England continued on its blind "peaceful" course. It's endless possibilities.

More importantly, what if a rational person led Germany during this time and projected Germany to a peaceful dominance of the world by scientific and manufacturing power? I might have been a war between Japan and the US only.

Thorup
19th Sep 2002, 09:28
If Germany didn't decleare war with USA and attacked russia. and if Hitler listened to his generals. Germany might have won the war

1shot1kill
19th Sep 2002, 19:09
I'm not sure but didn't the USA declare war on Germany?

Thorup
19th Sep 2002, 19:26
nah don't think so. I thought that Germany decleared war on usa after the attack on pearl harbour. cos germany was allied to Japan.

Rapid
20th Sep 2002, 16:57
Originally posted by Thorup
It is dangerous to play with time.

Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once.

iakovos
20th Sep 2002, 21:09
Time does not belong to Nature. Is a human mental construction.
There is no time in the universe.

Iakovos :)

Thorup
23rd Sep 2002, 18:54
I read this article about that the big bang is going over and over again. each time the universe will be created another time over and over again.

to much to write, so I won't explain further if not asked to do it.

anyway, that means like iakovos said that there is no time.

Rapid
23rd Sep 2002, 20:01
But Iak, time flies like the wind, while fruit flies like bananas.

iakovos
23rd Sep 2002, 22:32
The wind does not fly.

Iakovos :)

Yakkalot
24th Sep 2002, 08:39
Originally posted by Thorup
nah don't think so. I thought that Germany decleared war on usa after the attack on pearl harbour. cos germany was allied to Japan.

Germany declared war on the United States on December 8th 1941. Mind you it was somewhat undesired, but necessary under pre-war tripartate agreements between italy, gemany and Japan.

A quote I read not five minutes ago in the USSBS "when pearl harbour came, the Feurher and I ofcourse showed the hole world a happy face, but we were not pleased"
By Ribbentrop (german foreign minister) to interoators post-war.

Thorup
24th Sep 2002, 10:06
Yes, at first germany didn't want to decleare war on usa, but they had to.

but was the german army stronger than the american one in the beginning of teh war?

Twitch
24th Sep 2002, 15:16
Even in June 1944 the Allies barely clung to their foothold in France at first. If German troops were not engaged in Russia certainly they would have been focused on France with much more force. This is not to say they wouldn't have landed later or germany would not have lost. Things just would have unfolded differently. Certainly the war would have gone on longer.

Thorup
24th Sep 2002, 19:50
if the allies had not broken the enigma code, then the war would probably have lasted for 2-3 more years.

ragsy
3rd Oct 2002, 01:58
And you might be speaking German

1shot1kill
3rd Oct 2002, 02:10
Maybe not, the only good thing about the war was that most germans stationed here actually tried to learn dutch, if you see germans over here now they never try to speak dutch they expect us to speak german, even if they live in the border area where they get dutch lessons in school. :mad:

Thorup
3rd Oct 2002, 06:51
It can't be that hard for a german to learn dutch

I have learned a new dutch phrase too: ik ook:)

1shot1kill
3rd Oct 2002, 09:28
Well, 2 words, can hardly call it a phrase. :p Show them the other one you know. :rolleyes:

Thorup
4th Oct 2002, 07:56
ik koop:) I buy

Twitch
4th Oct 2002, 19:15
In the US there is a new version of the Twilight Zone this year. Last week a woman goes back from the future to kill Hitler as a baby. SHe did. The rub was that Adolph was substituted by a Jewish gypsy's baby and, of course, the time traveler actually assisted history. !!!

tek956st
13th Oct 2002, 11:04
that's actually crazy....interesting but crazy. Think about it though evenm if you could go back and kill hitler, do u know how many other people u would have to kill also...think hitler has followers and allied countried who shared his vision....it's just hitler had the guts to put his vision into reality as sad as that is and all. So I believe..... fate would've found a way. I believe when everyone is born they are destined to follow a certain path in life and thus that was hitlers. Although he should've took a noble death instread of proving to the world he was a coward, and yet millions of germans fought for him. so it had'nt been hitler it would'nt probaly come out of japan or italy or even an aliied country...you honesly neva know. Just be thank ful we ad great leaders leading the allied forces back then. What if stalin or churchill or even rooselvelt shared hitlers vision? Minorities would be all outcast and thus the world would have taken a serious turn for the serial.

1shot1kill
13th Oct 2002, 11:22
Just go back to 1918 when Hitler just left the army and is not someone important yet.

tek956st
13th Oct 2002, 21:20
lol.....that's true. But again it could've been fate or destiny for him to face such trials

Ranger
14th Oct 2002, 14:09
When you speaked that if Hitler would do that you would speake German and blaa blaa blaa... The Finland had samekinda danger because Hitler asked after finnish winter war would Finland join to the axis, Finland agreed Hitlers ask and joind and so German could use Finland to transform tanks to the easten warfield would Hitler declare war to finland if finland wouldnt agreed whit Hitler?

There was also some unluck at this When Hitles has attacked at Russia He said that Finland is the ally of german and so Russia attacked agains to Finland...

Yakkalot
15th Oct 2002, 01:47
While on the subject of what if's, what if Franco had've agreed to let erman troops occupy Gibraltar?

A very interesting what if for sure, the 8th army would've been starved and choked of suplies, also the implications for the far-east would've been interesting....

Thorup
15th Oct 2002, 11:32
All the greeks and spanians on that war can just go to hell

Rapid
15th Oct 2002, 15:29
Ooohhh, you better not let Iakovos see that!!

Thorup
15th Oct 2002, 18:55
his never around anyway:D

iakovos
15th Oct 2002, 19:09
Originally posted by Thorup
All the greeks and spanians on that war can just go to hell

At least we didn't loose in barely one month like Norway did :p

We fought for seven months, both the Italians and Germans... and that's a fact! Besides, we were the first to have victories against the Axis...unlike you fat pants ;) :p

Iakovos :)

1shot1kill
16th Oct 2002, 07:51
And thats hard with a few thousand islands? :p

iakovos
16th Oct 2002, 09:07
What the islands have got to do with anything? Major fights were concentrated on our borders with Albania, former Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Turkey. Not the islands, but dry land. So yes, 1shot, that's bloody hard!!! Considering the fact that the Greek army had limited supplies and was fighting a superior war machine in air, sea and land, the Italians and the Germans. Italians were defeated in Albania, not the islands, and Germans could not bypass by land our strongholds in northern Greece, so they used airlifts in. The only major fight on an island was in Crete, and that is the biggest island in the Aegean. And there the superior German Paratroopers were slaughtered by villagers carring sticks and branches. And they were never used again as parachutists.

Iakovos :)

Xcom
16th Oct 2002, 09:11
Originally posted by Thorup
All the greeks and spanians on that war can just go to hell

Watch it.

Thorup
16th Oct 2002, 10:12
Originally posted by iakovos


We fought for seven months, both the Italians and Germans... and that's a fact! Besides, we were the first to have victories against the Axis...unlike you fat pants ;) :p

Iakovos :)

WRONG!:mad:

Norway were the first to beat the axis in Narvik!!

Norway also made one of the most succesful commando raids against a german heavywater factory!

iakovos
16th Oct 2002, 18:02
Eh, Thorup... Germans won in Narvik!

Iakovos :)

Thorup
17th Oct 2002, 07:46
Yes at the end they won, but not in the first attack. don't know the details about that, only something I have read in a book.

Ranger
17th Oct 2002, 10:38
Stop that its stupid to argument what country was best in WW2 because Finland beat all of them by defeating Soviet union.:D

iakovos
17th Oct 2002, 15:12
Well, we did beat the Italians and kept the Germans at bay for a month and a half. Look, I don't want to continue this, I am not searching to find out which country was the best or is the best. We all suffered during that war, both enemies and friends.
All I want to know is that you were "idiotically" joking about something so important as a country's dignity.

Iakovos :)

Rapid
17th Oct 2002, 15:53
No Sweden was the best -- they were so intimidating that they were not attacked by anyone!

Mike_B
17th Oct 2002, 16:42
Can we please have a serious discussion here?? I don't mind that this thread is here as long as isn't going to be like 'my country is better than yours' and stuff like that.

Thorup
17th Oct 2002, 21:24
ok, no more better country discussion. I just want to say that beating germany I think is more difficult than beating Soviet Union.

anyway, I didn't like Sweden during the war, they allowed German supplies to be transported through their country and further to Norway

1shot1kill
18th Oct 2002, 13:56
Well almost every european country has had its beating during WW2 can't really blame Sweden to play it save against an enemy they can't beat. Holland ha a pact with Germany too taht Germany would not attack us, however they did without warning us and however we are a small country it took them 5 days to beat our unprepared army.

Thorup
19th Oct 2002, 13:15
you are a small country, yes...but many people in your country to fight also

Norway were neutral and even though the germans attacked us:mad:

1shot1kill
19th Oct 2002, 19:02
We were neutral too + they promised not to attack us.

Thorup
19th Oct 2002, 19:59
yes I know. many countries were neutral...but why should we have trusted a man like Hitler?

tek956st
21st Oct 2002, 04:44
I just saw a cool movie and learned some cool facts about wwII. I saw a movie called mission of the shark...about a cruiser torpedoed and blown up and 1/2 the crew survived and was stuck at see for 5 days and they were battling hunger, dehydration, and to just stay alive...sharks kept snacking on the crew. The movie was awesome it self and I really liked it..I also found out that this was a true story and that the pearl harbo incident: The dolittle raid...was the first u.s strike of the war and the incident in pearl harbor was true story. It's just cool when u see a good movie and you later find out it had or was based on actual true events.

Now on a rather unpleasant and serious note I read that n. korea is making nuclear weapons and probaly already has 2 nuclear weapons already in their possesion...this is scary folks, too scary. They were saying earlier that n. korea is a bigger threat than iraq and could do more damage, and the only thing that is stopping them is their extreme poverty situation. I saw a poll on that people said america should deal with korea first then go after iraq...this could plunge the world into a wwIII. Bush called them today the new age axis of evil...iran, iraq, and n. korea. I'm realizing just how serious he is about our current situaton and i really believe war is a yr. or less away.

tek956st
21st Oct 2002, 04:47
* I mean the love story and the bond between the 2 pilots in the movie...that alot of that actually happened, or was inspired and based off of actual events.:)

Rapid
21st Oct 2002, 16:24
The shark thing was about the sinking of the cruiser USS Indianapolis by a Japanese sub. Some signficant number of crew who survived the sinking were killed by sharks while they waited for rescue. True story. In the movie "Jaws" the character played by Robert Shaw tells the story of having been on that ship and survived.

Re: N. Korea, it's not good but it's still not as worrisome to me as the possibility of Saddam having nukes. Because he has demonstrated much greater belligerence than N. Korea has. The latter has actually shown signs in recent years of wanting to be more accepted in the world, whereas Saddam has shown he just doesn't give a ****. In fact I heard something just today about N. Korea showing some willingness to be cooperative on the issue...

tek956st
23rd Oct 2002, 04:12
Well, I saw it and thought it was a cool movie. Mostmovies nowadays about wwII now are almost always based on a true vent rather than some made up mission. I believe I've seen almost every wwII movie...not all almost all. The wwII series I wanna see now is a miniseries I happen to have missed on HBO, but I've heard extremely good things about it. Of course you all must knowthe series...Band or Brothers. Since I've never had to pleasure of seeing it...do tell me..is this $103.00 dvd series worth my wait? Because I've seen alot of tom hanks and steven spielberg films, and they rarely disappoint you.