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Danventry
14th Sep 2002, 18:34
You know when there's a texture on the bottom of awall. And then a different one on the top? Well, how do you do that? Because I'd like to make a wall with a wooden bottom, some lining/border/molding, and then another texture on top. How big should the lining be too? (Like .5X.5X.5)

Xcom
14th Sep 2002, 18:54
Just use several air brushes to make 1 room.

amievil?
14th Sep 2002, 20:26
i usually create the room with one air brush, then for the example wall i use a second air brush, proper height to the botom border, a thickness of 1 usually is easier for me to work with. line it with the wall and after portalize, you can change that texture on that brush. the wall should stay the same as you had it before, but the smaller brush (maybe a height of 1) will have a different texture. use the same method for the top border. its just like carpets, except your doing it on the wall.

Danventry
15th Sep 2002, 05:29
Oh, duh. Thanks Xcom and amievil?. But I have another question. How bad does custom textures increase file size? B/c I have to do a lot of making my own textures to make a room look pleasing to the eye. I think I've already got 3 custom ones for my first room. But I'm starting to think I might just have to deal with what I've got (which I can do, it probably just won't look as good). I used an online color- schemer and chose three main colors that look good together. I then take their separate "palettes" or whatever (the other 15 colors that look good with each of them) and I put it onto 1 picture, so I'm left with a 48 color palette. Then I decrease the color count to 16, which leaves me with a perfect color combo. Then I go to various sites collecting samples of wallpaper/rugs/whatever to make my room. Edit as needed and so on. But anyways, how big would the file size be? And I also have a new gaurd texture and a new noble texture. Will these also make the file size higher? If I cannot/shoud not/ don't want to use my "custom" wall textures, how do some people use the ones they have, but make them fit in so perfectly???

Komag
15th Sep 2002, 05:32
Are you guys nuts!? Don't go making extra brushes for nothing like that! Just change the texture on that brush face. The easiest way to do it is to open the texture menu with ALT-T and then click on the texture you want to use and then click in the 3D window the surface you want to paint. If you don't see any change then you just need to portalize/optimize (if you've just barely portalized or optimized you will see the change instantly). Or you can have the brush selected and then press < or > to scroll through it's faces, and you can manually enter a texture number for a specific face or cycle through the available textures (depending on which texture famil(y)(ies) you have loaded)

Danventry
15th Sep 2002, 05:37
Komag, I don't think you read the whole question. I want half the wall one texture and the other half of that SAME wall another (like a border or something). Anyways, back to my other question...


Originally posted by Danventry
Oh, duh. Thanks Xcom and amievil?. But I have another question. How bad does custom textures increase file size? B/c I have to do a lot of making my own textures to make a room look pleasing to the eye. I think I've already got 3 custom ones for my first room. But I'm starting to think I might just have to deal with what I've got (which I can do, it probably just won't look as good). I used an online color- schemer and chose three main colors that look good together. I then take their separate "palettes" or whatever (the other 15 colors that look good with each of them) and I put it onto 1 picture, so I'm left with a 48 color palette. Then I decrease the color count to 16, which leaves me with a perfect color combo. Then I go to various sites collecting samples of wallpaper/rugs/whatever to make my room. Edit as needed and so on. But anyways, how big would the file size be? And I also have a new gaurd texture and a new noble texture. Will these also make the file size higher? If I cannot/shoud not/ don't want to use my "custom" wall textures, how do some people use the ones they have, but make them fit in so perfectly???

amievil?
15th Sep 2002, 17:10
danventry, take a look at the bottom two pictures on this page: http://www.angelfire.com/my/thiefshots/index.html


the middle pic is done using air bruses, the bottom one using solids for the wooden baseboards. use the air as much as possilbe to avoid higher polys.


as for the custom textures and thier file sizes, i have no idea about that one. ive never used any custom textures in my levels yet. best thing to do if you dont use custom textures is to use thief media edit and look through the textures and find what you want...aligning the textures makes them look better(especially detail textures, stone walls dont really need to be aligned)

Komag
15th Sep 2002, 17:22
Oops! My mistake - I read it alright, just too quickly, relying too much on the title of the thread instead of the first post I think. My apologies :)

Danventry
15th Sep 2002, 18:03
That's okay Komag! We all do it :) . I'm assuming that you (amievil?) had to re-align the top of the airbrush for the top border for that one hall, so that it fit with the ceiling? I know aligning is important and such, I've been doing that, I'll just have to search around some more for better Thief textures. The colors don't look that great together. I don't have media edit, but another texture collection that I look through. I'm going to spend some time today (after defragging the computer *gag* :mad: :( ) choosing textures again. One last question: How wide are the wooden borders in your hall, and what grid size are you using, because mine look too thick in grid 14? I have my FM on gird size 14 right now, but I'm thinking of finishing the last touches on details on grid size 13 or 12. I've heard that that is bad to go that low and can crash DromEd. Is that true?

Xcom
15th Sep 2002, 18:54
Originally posted by Danventry
I have my FM on gird size 14 right now, but I'm thinking of finishing the last touches on details on grid size 13 or 12. I've heard that that is bad to go that low and can crash DromEd. Is that true?

This is something I wanna know too. Grid 12 didn't cause any problems whatsoever. I used it a lot. IIRC, it lets you create brushes which are min. 0.5 units thick. I think I read somewhere that stairs for example should be made 0.75 units high but that's impossible in grid 12 (unless of course you manually type in values). So, I assume that grid 11 is pretty much the lowest you can work in, right?

Telliamed_
15th Sep 2002, 20:01
The trick is to make the brushes for the steps 1' high, but space them 0.75' apart. So instead of...


[]
[]
[]


It looks more like...


_
_| |
_| |-
|_|-


(boy, this is hard to draw)
What that's supposed to look like is that the brushes don't touch corner-to-corner, but are more side-by-side. Not only is this easier to snap to grid, but it actually looks better if you're using solid brushes.

Of course, carving out using air is generally a better.

Xcom
15th Sep 2002, 20:17
Originally posted by Telliamed
(boy, this is hard to draw)
What that's supposed to look like is that the brushes don't touch corner-to-corner, but are more side-by-side. Not only is this easier to snap to grid, but it actually looks better if you're using solid brushes.

Of course, carving out using air is generally a better.

I understand perfectly what you were trying to draw ;). So far i've been using solid wedge and carving steps with air brushes. However (and i am not sure) but it seems that method you are suggesting will cause a lot more cell/poly splits.

Komag
15th Sep 2002, 22:33
You can still carve out steps with air brushes at grid 12 and make them .75

Grid 12 - brush sizes in .5's but positions/placements in .25's

amievil?
15th Sep 2002, 23:50
i aligned the brushes for those to the cieling and the floor, i dont remember how tall the border brushes are. my hallways are 14 units high on that so probably 2? i dont remember. for the solid brushes they are .5 wide and 1 foot tall. grid size is 12. man adding those borders to 100 unit long hallways is a task :) i always use grid of 12, never lower or higher for me.

Telliamed_
16th Sep 2002, 05:29
Originally posted by Xcom
I understand perfectly what you were trying to draw ;). So far i've been using solid wedge and carving steps with air brushes. However (and i am not sure) but it seems that method you are suggesting will cause a lot more cell/poly splits.

What I forgot to mention (actually, I thought I did say it, but must've erased that sentence.) is that this works equally well when carving with air as it does building up with solid.

Staircases are a terror to cell merging in either case. But Dromed does a pretty decent job. Take a look at this simple mock-up (http://snow.prohosting.com/tomfool/thief/screenshots.shtml#stair001). The only thing to really be wary of is when a cell formed by the staircase extends out into the surrounding area. That can be managed without too much pain with a blockable brush.

Xcom
16th Sep 2002, 16:38
Originally posted by Telliamed


Take a look at this simple mock-up (http://snow.prohosting.com/tomfool/thief/screenshots.shtml#stair001).

Can't see it. an error occurred while processing this directive is what I get.

Telliamed_
18th Sep 2002, 06:58
Should be working now. Or try again in another 24hrs.

Telliamed_
20th Sep 2002, 05:35
Just wanted to follow-up with an interesting observation I made the other day.

How well an area optimizes depends very much on the order of the brushes.
http://snow.prohosting.com/tomfool/thief/screenshots.shtml#stair002

The only difference is the order of the steps. And that's optimized. So if you're trying to reduce the complexity of a scene, and can't figure out why Dromed is making some bonehead split, just try moving the brushes around in time.

Another trick I read was to rotate a brush 90 degrees. But I haven't experimented much to see how much of a difference it makes. (Also, that was written in an old document. The newer Dromed seems to be better at finding merges than was described.)

(now watch the server crash again...)

Xcom
20th Sep 2002, 16:43
Originally posted by Telliamed
(now watch the server crash again...)

Get yourself some decent host :p
I have managed to see the first picture though.