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MunkeeChum
7th Sep 2002, 12:07
In the latest issue of PC Gamer UK there is quite an interesting article regarding PC games sale figures in the UK.

Our favorite developer Mucky Foot shows up twice in the Top 20 great games jilted at the alter list.

Startopia is in at number 6 selling only 15,500 copies and Urban Chaos is in at number 12 selling 21,000.

Gary Carr, joint managing director of Mucky Foot told PC Gamer:


Although Startopia was critically acclaimed... the title was given a pitiful marketing spend [by Eidos] and was virtually invisible on the high street.


Bah :(

Mucky Foot
7th Sep 2002, 13:10
We didn't even sell as many as Daikatana (17k). Oh, the misery...

TomF - Muckyfoot coder.

DMA57361
7th Sep 2002, 15:37
Uhhhh. Darn.

and was virtually invisible on the high street.

I found my copy in my local (ie, closest) PCWorld store. Sorta high-streetish. But not really. :(

MunkeeChum
8th Sep 2002, 15:25
Originally posted by Mucky Foot
We didn't even sell as many as Daikatana (17k). Oh, the misery...

TomF - Muckyfoot coder.

Its a damn shame, but at least you are safe in the knowledge that it was a great game :)

Binro_the_Heretic
10th Sep 2002, 00:28
But "Daikatana" was such an interesting and ground breaking game.

(NOTE: After typing that sentence, I had to stab myself in the leg with a pencil to stop laughing.)

Seriously, though, I think only the over-hyped games deliver the killer sales figures. It doesn't necessarily indicate a good game.

"Daikatana" = lousy
"Black & White" = mediocre
"Max Payne" = awful

The latest installment in the "Doom" series is bound to be terrible as well. The only thing they talk about is the awesome graphics engine and chances are the majority of us won't be able to take advantage of all the great graphics options on our machines.

I'm betting if "Duke Nukem Forever" ever sees the light of day it will suck so much it will collapse in on itself and form a black hole.

Speaking of "Daikatana," isn't Romero teaching now? I know he had to sell his car, the one he bought to keep up with John Carmack.

SkrasherSmasher
10th Sep 2002, 01:57
Hype does sell games. It's s sad fact. Alas, if only people would take a minute and read reviews before they go out and buy a game. Either that or a demo...

I had to buy Neverwinter Nights after the 10 millionth time I heard then name though. It is a very cool game, even though my poor Pentium II 450 is huffing and puffing trying to put it on my screen...

Also, Max Payne was the bomb!! BnW was utter crap, and I've never even heard of Daikinatana, but I'm not that big into advertisements that don't show huge detailed (bloody or otherwise) screenshots. But eh, I'm not that big into advrtisments at all...

MunkeeChum
11th Sep 2002, 17:01
I dont rememerb much hype about The Sims and look what its gone and done........


For those of you who dont know The Sims is the biggest selling computer game of all time.

But I damn its accursed 'expansions' which are nothing but mere patches!

Wile_E
12th Sep 2002, 23:41
You want to know what really hurts PC Games? The people that buy those lousy titles like Big Game Hunter, and Fishing! Almost everytime I'm in a store, I see people buying those sorry-made games. They don't take the time to look at reviews or such.

Arctic_Wolf
13th Sep 2002, 19:29
Actualy there was loads of hype on the sims. And it did manage to deliver. I remember that it was supposed to be a simulation of real life, but you are in total control. I thought that their expansion packs were going to add all those things left out in their real-life sim.

Real life? When was the last time you got abducted by aliens because you looked through a telescope. Or used a Vudu doll to kill your nieghbour?

The only expansion worthwhile, I think, is Unleashed. At last I can tell the dog to maul the burgler.

Memau_on_Steroids
14th Sep 2002, 16:14
Originally posted by Arctic_Wolf
Real life? When was the last time you got abducted by aliens because you looked through a telescope.

Last week, of course.


Or used a Vudu doll to kill your nieghbour?

Hey, shhhhh! The police haven't noticed yet!:D

AlphaOmega
14th Sep 2002, 18:59
Pure shame... Toss those Eidos marketing folks out the StarDock!

MunkeeChum
15th Sep 2002, 19:21
Bah to them and their cheap market campaign.


BAH to them I say!

cryptophore
17th Sep 2002, 07:20
I'm a bit fuzzy on the timeline, but didn't Eidos dump a load of money into Ion Storm, to get them to produce Diakatana. Boy that was an utter flop. Pity Startopia had to suffer because of a lack of effort on Eidos. I love this game -- I just found it in the 'clearance' bin, and can't believe I missed out last year.

MunkeeChum
18th Sep 2002, 21:16
Well there's no use in crying over spilt milk so i say everybody learns how to mod and create custom missions :)

cryptophore
19th Sep 2002, 04:07
WEll, not only am I making a new mission, but I'm evangelizing the game and trying to get others to buy it. it *is* still on the market, and in many cases is quite a great deal.

Hand-E-Food
20th Sep 2002, 06:25
I have to agree that the marketting for the game sucked. I saw it on a shelf in a Mind Games (role-playing, puzzles, board games, etc.) imported from America. The game could have sold as well as Sim City or Dungeon Keeper if anybody had heard about it. Were demos ever released on cover disks?

Pinky the Cow
20th Sep 2002, 15:26
Originally posted by Hand-E-Food
Were demos ever released on cover disks? Yep, but russian magazines are hardly an indicator of highstreet popularity.

kool_kats_rule
21st Sep 2002, 09:24
How come some of the best games don't get the marketing to sell well, while some really crap games get loads of marketing and sell really well?

Hand-E-Food
21st Sep 2002, 23:07
Because companies are encouraged to churn out crap. Just look:

Doom - The best thing since Wolfenstien 3D.

Quake - The best thing since Doom.

Half-Life - The best thing since Quake.

Unreal - The best thing since Half-Life.

Counter-Strike - The best thing since Unreal.

And the crap rolls on. (please note that these aren't my opinions.)


And then there's StarTopia:

StarTopia - The best thing since... SimCity? Nah...Theme Hospital... No, that's not it. Lego Creator? You know, I don't think it's like anything, really.


Creating a genre is such a hard task because producers, the ones with the money, are scared to publish something that might not sell. They prefer to stick with the tried-and-true genres. Personally, I think the tried-and-true genres have run out of ideas for now.

Gemslug
29th Sep 2002, 19:44
I'd like to pay a tribute to all those games out there that where excellent but didn't recieve the rewards they deserved. In truth the formula is like this:
The better a game the less money it'll make.

Hand-E-Food
29th Sep 2002, 22:45
Originally posted by Gemslug
The better a game the less money it'll make.

Not quite true. There are a number of games that managed to be both.

Command & Conquer: Tiberian Dawn (the very first one)
Myst, Riven, and Exile
MechWarrior 2
Space / Police / Hero's / King's Quest
Tie Fighter
Sim City series
Dune (not 2 or 2000 or Emperor, just Dune)
Doom series

Notice the common factor: age. Everything now is a same-as-the-last rehash. But there's just as many great but lonely games.

Alpha Centauri and Alien Crossfire
Septerra Core
Alice
Shogo - Mobile Armour Division
Carmageddon
Virtua On
And of course StarTopia
I'm sure there's more out there that I haven't heard of (or just aren't my thing so I've forgotten them too).

And niether of those lists outweight the crap best sellers list which I won't even start (namely because I avoided them all and have forgotten what they are).

Gemslug
30th Sep 2002, 15:27
I was talking about it as a whole. But to be honest this is quite depressing :( and I think we should change the subject. We should all agree that Startopia is an excellent! :D

MunkeeChum
1st Oct 2002, 17:59
Originally posted by Hand-E-Food

Myst, Riven, and Exile


Boo!

[I believe "slam" posts are against the TOU... Be nice.]

cryptophore
1st Oct 2002, 19:01
Oh I think we're all in agreement here, startopia *IS* excellent, andis the best game since .. I dunno, ever? The point here is that all these other **** games got marketed, and actually sold some games based on the marketing, and yet still they were lame games. The tragedy lies in a far superior game like Startopia getting left behind by poor marketing decisions by 'the suits'.

What can we do, other than try to evangelize the game to our friends. Word of mouth can be the best/most effective form of marketing. Especially now that one can find some real deals on the few games of startopia out there for sale.


I just wonder what will happen when it finally does become no longer for sale. When Startopia becomes "Abandonware," will Eidos/Muckyfoot stomp down on fans who try to distribute it via ... "alternative" means. It would be very sad -- a true tragedy -- to see Startopia suffer such an ignoble death.

Hand-E-Food
1st Oct 2002, 22:10
Originally posted by MunkeeChum


Boo! Edited by admin. re: Myst, Riven and Exile

Did you have trouble finishing them?

MunkeeChum
2nd Oct 2002, 17:07
No. They are just not my type of game.
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.
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.
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.
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And regarding something totally unrelated: They are pants.

Arctic_Wolf
2nd Oct 2002, 20:04
What did I miss?

Ghyron
2nd Oct 2002, 20:34
Originally posted by MunkeeChum
And regarding something totally unrelated: They are pants.

I believe Myst to be an incrediably detailed interactive slideshow.

Hand-E-Food
3rd Oct 2002, 05:30
Yeah, I'll pay that. But it's a fun and entertaining interactive slideshow.

MunkeeChum
3rd Oct 2002, 18:10
Buying games like that encourages developers to make more like that and stop making original games like our very own Startopia. So please when Myst 4 : The endless bore comes out dont buy it.

Hand-E-Food
3rd Oct 2002, 23:47
So you want me not to buy a game which I enjoy?

I'm all for supporting developers that break new bounds in games. I'm also all for supporting developers that make games which I enjoy. I enjoy Myst for a lot more than the game play. If they brought it out as a text adventure or a movie, I'd still buy it, because it's part of the Myst saga. It's the story that keeps me coming back.

And I encourage new ideas too. SimCity, Theme Hospital, Carmageddon, Descent, Dungeon Keeper, Tony Hawk, Deus Ex (partly) and StarTopia are all firsts of their genre and I've supported them all because of their unique sense of fun. I've also supported the sequals of these games because they're still fun, even though they've ben done before.

Gemslug
9th Oct 2002, 19:29
In a few years (along with other games) Startopia will have a large number of clones (like Red Alert).

MunkeeChum
10th Oct 2002, 15:54
They only clone games that sell well.

Anyway we dont want any third rate cheap ass Startopia clones. They would only disgrace a good idea.

Azuriel
10th Oct 2002, 16:11
Originally posted by MunkeeChum
They only clone games that sell well.

Anyway we dont want any third rate cheap ass Startopia clones. They would only disgrace a good idea.


my thoughts exaclty

(red alert had some pretty horrible clones)

Hand-E-Food
11th Oct 2002, 05:17
Does nobody realise that Red Alert is a clone/sequal? To my knowledge, Dune 2 was the first.

MunkeeChum
11th Oct 2002, 09:24
Well when you think of it like that every game created in the last 20 years has been a clone of something......

Hand-E-Food
11th Oct 2002, 22:45
No.

Clone implies that there's nearly no new components. The Command & Conquer, War/StarCraft, Dark Reign, T.A. series, along with all of the others, are clones. They offer very little new in the way of gameplay. Some new units, some funkier graphics, an "original" stroyline involving world domination.

Even StarTopia could be considdered a clone of Dungeon Keeper. It just occured to me this morning that Dungeon Keeper has it's own versions of the Port, Berth, Dine-O-Mat, Roulesse Wheel, and Lockdown Brig. Most games are a clone, but to have a clone, you need an original. And there are so many clones because designers keep saying "Hey, this would be so much better if..."

And if you want originality, go to Korea or Japan. I'm yet to see anything like Power Diggers the earth moving simulator. I'll probably never see anything like it again. A lot of original ideas flop.

Gemslug
13th Oct 2002, 16:55
You have a point some-ideas were taken from Dungeon Keeper. There is a lot of difference between them, though; Startopia is mainly peacefull, unlike dungeon keeper which is constant fighting. You have to watch your space but in dungeon keeper it doesn't cost anything to expand.Dungeon Keeper(to my knowledge) has no trading elements. I don't think it's fair to call Startopia a complete clone.

Mucky Foot
13th Oct 2002, 21:54
It's more that both Dungeon Keeper and Startopia are both related to Theme Hospital. Since about half the Theme Hospital team joined Muckyfoot and worked on Startopia, and some had a hand in bits of DK, it's hardly suprising.

TomF - Muckyfoot coder.

Hand-E-Food
14th Oct 2002, 11:22
They all have rooms and picking things up and everyone's a semi-individual. StarTopia has a lot on top of Dungeon Keeper and Theme Hospital, as is to be expected in a "clone". It has a lot of similarities though. I suppose they've just taken everything a person could need and put that in every game remotely like this.

And Dungeon Keeper doesn't have to be about combat and slaughtering. You can use My Pet Dungeon to make a very stable and profitable evil-system.

Meddling Grey
15th Oct 2002, 21:51
This may sound heretical coming from someone on the Eidos forums, and downright odd from someone who's been on the forums for over a year, but I've never been able to decide which god-game I liked best: Startopia or Majesty. Startopia is detailed, prettier, newer, and has more depth (I like it more), but Majesty sucked even more hours out of my life than Startopia or either Dungeon Keeper (sorry, never played Theme Hospital). I think it was the allure of commanding a kingdom of NPC heroes that, in more normal circumstances, would have been me, going on quests and ridding the world of monsters. It makes me nostalgic just thinking about it... but the game's appeal disappeared when I finished the campaign, which is why Startopia will most likely win out in the end. Til' Startopia 2 comes out. Don't look at me like that. In a constantly changing universe of infinite size, anything can and will happen. :)

Which brings me to my current obsession with Warlords Battlecry 2, and how I've probably played it more than any other game, ever. The only exception is Total Annihilation, which is easily at the top of my "Best Game Ever" list. I could go on about why it's at the top of my list, as I have quite a few reasons, although I doubt it matters all that much.

You know, I just realized something... I have a mental list of "Best Games Ever" that covers nearly half the games I ever played! Well isn't that something... even the bad games have a place in my mind. "Fragile Allegiance" froze my computer every time I entered the main menu, and also corrupted my harddrive. I never did get to actually play it for more than ten seconds. Wouldn't you know it, I discovered about half a year ago that it had to be played in pure DOS, installed on drive C. Neither of which I did, I might add. I won't install it again, mind you, since it's old and that's not a gamble I'm willing to take. Ah, the memories... If only I could get rid of some of them! :D

Hand-E-Food
16th Oct 2002, 10:30
Theme Hospital wasn't quite tricky enough and was a bit limited. A great game none the less. You should be able to get it for $30 Australian. It runs fine under any recent version of Windows (I've got XP).

Dungeon Keeper 2 and StarTopia are pretty much even for me in term of favourite RTS. They're the only ones I've played through more than once. I like the personal feel of the games. I've never been one for combat. Mostly because I suck at it. I just want to build a perfect world.

MunkeeChum
20th Oct 2002, 12:16
Originally posted by Hand-E-Food
Theme Hospital wasn't quite tricky enough and was a bit limited. A great game none the less. You should be able to get it for $30 Australian. It runs fine under any recent version of Windows (I've got XP).


$30!!!, you can get THem Hospital for 5 pounds in Britain now, and thats in a pack of 3 classic games! You are getting ripped off.


And I have always thought the original Dungeon Keeper was better than DK2. It was harder and just better. I really cant explain why.

Hand-E-Food
21st Oct 2002, 03:15
All games are more expensive here. Most games cost about 50% more than overseas releases. I don't really know why, just one of those local things. Eating in Melbourne costs about a third of what it does in the UK. There's give and take.

I wasn't as big a fan of DK as I was of DK2. DK had a few strange ideas that didn't work well, and Horny worked a lot better as a character rather than a race. I miss how they change shape with leveling though. Also, some parts of it crash with Windows '98 and beyond, so I only got about half way through it.

Inafiscisis
2nd Feb 2003, 06:12
Most games are expensive because they have been hyped (commercials arent free)...most hyped games need hyping cause they suck...most sucky games suck cause they are completely unoriginal...most unoriginal games are completely unoriginal cause the producers are scared to lose money...so they run something old in a new package and a new engine, hype it like hell, and slap on a hefty price tag on a game that sux...

Sunrise
2nd Feb 2003, 16:15
i'm offended. My local software retailer is selling startopia for 99p!
:mad: for a game that good it should be worth at least £10... or more. i haev spent nearly 100 hours on this game. more than any other game (except black and white).

sets fire to the store. burn... Mwahahahahaha*cough*haha*hack*hahaha*splutter*

MunkeeChum
2nd Feb 2003, 18:24
Originally posted by Inafiscisis
Most games are expensive because they have been hyped (commercials arent free)...most hyped games need hyping cause they suck...most sucky games suck cause they are completely unoriginal...most unoriginal games are completely unoriginal cause the producers are scared to lose money...so they run something old in a new package and a new engine, hype it like hell, and slap on a hefty price tag on a game that sux...


Hype sells. Simple. If all great games were hyped (or advertised properly) then they would all sell like they were supposed to.

But hyping certainly does not imply a bad game. Unreal Tournement 2003 was hyped and that is great. Warcraft 3 has been in a lot of peoples minds for a long time, it is fantastic, as has gone to sell bugger loads.

Of course you've got your Daikatanas lying about, but if like you say only a crap game needs hype, why have great innovative titles like Startopia, Sacrifice and Giants: Citizen Kabuto all failed financially?

Because hype and good advertising are essential, who is going to buy a game they dont know even exists?

Inafiscisis
3rd Feb 2003, 23:28
Originally posted by MunkeeChum
Because hype and good advertising are essential, who is going to buy a game they dont know even exists?

Hmm...true. But, hypothetically, if every game was hyped, I believe it would cancel eachother out, and the sales figures will be nearly random.

Also, I didn't say that all hyped games are bad, did I?

Imo, in order to get sales numbers that are "fair", you should ban commercials by game creators/producers, and only allow impartial reviews. Naturally, that'll mean the big grey masses won't know squat about any games released, and all figures will drop to 50%...but that's just what I think.

MunkeeChum
4th Feb 2003, 21:28
Originally posted by Inafiscisis
Imo, in order to get sales numbers that are "fair", you should ban commercials by game creators/producers, and only allow impartial reviews. Naturally, that'll mean the big grey masses won't know squat about any games released, and all figures will drop to 50%...but that's just what I think.

But then the true fans who appreciate a good game will buy those good games. And SAles would increase due to word of mouth.

I think in fact it would result in more actual good games coming out due to the fact that if it is bad no one is gonna say anything good about it and there has been no hype to sell the game to people who havn't played it or heard an opinion.

Inafiscisis
4th Feb 2003, 21:47
Originally posted by MunkeeChum
But then the true fans who appreciate a good game will buy those good games. And SAles would increase due to word of mouth.

I think in fact it would result in more actual good games coming out due to the fact that if it is bad no one is gonna say anything good about it and there has been no hype to sell the game to people who havn't played it or heard an opinion.

I agree with you (partially anyways...). Your theory will work well in a smaller community, and among those who frequent gaming sites and forums. But if you look at the amount of people that qualify as 'true fans', you will notice that this is not a very big number. And the 'regular' gamers, the ones that makes up the big crowds, don't usually hang around on the net reading reviews, and will not get any form of pointer on what games are good/bad. Also, without the hypes and commercials, many people will simply stop buying games, or start buying games more randomly. I'm talking about the families, the kids, the ones that don't really, really know that much about games, the people who plays Conter strike for god's sake!! So if you do this, the gaming market will shrink, lots of companies will go down, others will have to lay off lots of folks, and so on. everyone will be affected, especially the 'true fans'.

Hand-E-Food
5th Feb 2003, 02:05
There's one flaw with your idea. That's what happened to StarTopia. Great reviews. Fans boast about it greatness to everyone. Sales are less than 50,000.

Unless you regularly check out computer stores and online stores, you'll never know what's out. I like checking out such places, but I can never get to them before they close. And spending over an hour of travelling just to see if there's anything worth while isn't particularly fun on a Saturday morning.

Hand-E-Food
5th Feb 2003, 02:19
I think hype is fine. Anyone who cares about their games will check out the reviews as well. I avoided Men in Black because of the hype and despite the reviews, but I loved it when I finally saw it. I just wished I'd caught it in the cinema. Unreal Tournament 2003 is massively hyped, but only rated in the low 80s because it was unoriginal. People who love multiplayer FPSs will buy it. People who don't, won't. But the game will be successful and make a vast profit because everyone who cares, knows about it. And those who care will praise it and those who don't will shun it. The developers aim is to get as many people as possible to praise it, regardless of quality.

Inafiscisis
5th Feb 2003, 15:11
Originally posted by Hand-E-Food
There's one flaw with your idea. That's what happened to StarTopia. Great reviews. Fans boast about it greatness to everyone. Sales are less than 50,000.

Unless you regularly check out computer stores and online stores, you'll never know what's out. I like checking out such places, but I can never get to them before they close. And spending over an hour of travelling just to see if there's anything worth while isn't particularly fun on a Saturday morning.


MuckyFoot didn't go down, so I cannot see the resemblance...also, you're quite inconsistent in your thinking imo.
First everything will be fine if you illegalize hyping "due to word of mouth". Then, suddenly, you switch tracks and say "No, you must hype! Look what happened to Startopia!!!!!" I am having incredible difficulties with finding where you stand...my best guess would be "Hype is fine if I think the game is good.". Correct me if I'm wrong (which I frequently am, apparently).

MunkeeChum
5th Feb 2003, 22:20
I say we stop with the long answers and just get down to the basics:

Some games not deserving to sell end up doing well, and we think its unfair that they do while good games suffer.

There is no way to make it more fair so lets all just agree that Startopia got a bum deal and stop trying to justify it by condemming the whole video games industry :)

Bah....

Inafiscisis
5th Feb 2003, 22:26
Originally posted by MunkeeChum
I say we stop with the long answers and just get down to the basics:

Some games not deserving to sell end up doing well, and we think its unfair that they do while good games suffer.

There is no way to make it more fair so lets all just agree that Startopia got a bum deal and stop trying to justify it by condemming the whole video games industry :)

Bah....

I'll settle for that...although I still condemn the video game industry...and who said anything about 'justifying'?? Not me anyway...

Hand-E-Food
6th Feb 2003, 02:04
I don't like hype because it creates sheep. I think that advertising is necessary to get the word out though. There's so many great games that aren't even released in Australia because there's no demand for them. There's no demand because no-one's heard of them. Project Nomads has been released in only one shop that I've seen. The other shops don't even have it on file.

People just need to think about the games they buy and not just get it because it's the "latest game" or the "best game since that one just like it". Too many great ideas are lost because of mindless sheep.

Inafiscisis
6th Feb 2003, 14:26
Ok, I didn't like project nomads at all, but who cares...

About the sheep theory...it's like men in black...individuals are smart. People are stupid (or something like that, anyway you get the general idéa). Did you know that more people believe in hocus-pocus such as tarot and fortune tellers, than people believing in evolution!!? And this isn't in some third-world undereducated dumb-ass country, this is in the U.S! People are being brain-washed by television and such from an early age, up to the day they die! Maybe not intentionally, but still, the results are scary: people are taught they do not have to think for themselves. Look at iraq...most americans are extremely confident that "their boys will handle it", as I heard someone say at some interview...of course, there's still sanity, but not a lot. This problem is a world-wide self-sufficator! We're heading to another dark age, ladies and gentlemen, and not much can be done about it, unless it's done soon. (I am taking it for a fact that you, by now, think I am one of those lunatic government conspiracy theory maniacs...but I'd call it Humany Self Conspiracy...) Stupidity is spreading at an epidemic rate due to false info on the net (believe it or not, but many people are still stupid enough to think that everything printed is true, apparently...I had one of my friends saying that he knew a man that could talk to aliens...he had read about him on the net, of course...(you were supposed to be able to ask 'the aliens' a question if you pay so-and-so much...)it took me an hour to convince him that it was bull!), on TV (of course, the greatest stupidity generator in this part of the galaxy), and on almost all other forms of media. Not thinking is being promoted, and is trning into somewhat of a global phenomenae...intelligence is becoming rare...at least "harvested" intelligence. No, don't frown and think this is rubbish, this is a real problem!


(for those who cannot think on their own, I might add that this is, of course, a joke. (Yes, I got odd humour) I just wanted to see the reactions I got from people.)

MunkeeChum
6th Feb 2003, 20:33
Originally posted by Inafiscisis
And this isn't in some third-world undereducated dumb-ass country, this is in the U.S! =

You've got it wrong! Its because its the US :p

Inafiscisis
6th Feb 2003, 20:40
Heh...stupid americans (well, most, anyways). A friend of mine once came across some extraordinarily pathetically unintelligent americans. They had formed an organisation called FES (Flat Earth Society). They claimed the earth to be flat! This is how they reasoned. They would walk out on those big expanses in the middle of nowhere...imagine that big desert in the southwest, a long dusty road, a truckload of FES folks, standing there...then one says: "Yeah, It's flat alright!" (Note: This is actually true!! They didn't even give up by the sixties, after those big pictures of earth was shown. They claimed them to be fakes and took another desert trip to confirm the earth's flatness, the stupid, stupid bastards). You either love america, or you hate it. I vote for number 2.

If you don't believe me, head to:
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/FlatHome.htm
(These people also claim that the Earth is the centre of the universe, and that it is standing still. They base this on the belief that if the earth was to move arount the sun, it would be like a car in a corner, throwing stuff off the earth due th the centrifugal force...have these people heard of GRAVITY?)

Hand-E-Food
7th Feb 2003, 01:51
You're right. Intelligence is a rare commodity.

I've heard you can sometimes find it in Basic Cargo Crates, but you'd be lucky to have enough e to buy it. The Turrakens were the first to tap sup-space energy and hence they got all the intelligence. Us humans are still stuck on nuclear physics.

JSWY
7th Feb 2003, 11:12
"Deprogramming the masses since 1547"

and...


The Flat Earth Society is not in any way responsible for the failure of the French to repel the Germans at the Maginot Line during WWII. Nor is the Flat Earth Society responsible for the recent yeti sightings outside the Vatican, or for the unfortunate enslavement of the Nabisco Inc. factory employees by a rogue hamster insurrectionist group. Furthermore, we are not responsible for the loss of one or more of the following, which may possibly occur as the result of exposing one's self to the dogmatic and dangerously subversive statements made within: life, limb, vision, Francois Mitterand, hearing, taste, smell, touch, thumb, Aunt Mildred, citizenship, spleen, bedrock, cloves, I Love Lucy reruns, toaster, pine derby racer, toy duck, antelope, horseradish, prosthetic ankle, double-cheeseburger, tin foil, limestone, watermelon-scented air freshner, sanity, paprika, German to Pig Latin dictionary, dish towel, pet Chihuahua, pogo stick, Golf Digest subscription, floor tile, upper torso or halibut.

Prove that they just a load of non-sensical idiots with nothing better to do than say the world is flat...kinda funny though :D

Inafiscisis
7th Feb 2003, 13:48
You know, that section about not being responsible of all that is probably because some even more stupid american has issued a lawsuit agains them for all that.


[And about the Turrakkens(whatever): They didn't tap anything. They're created by MF, thankyouverymuch. Perhaps you have played too many RPG's? That ten-pager running now is a nightmare to read]

Sunrise
7th Feb 2003, 17:52
Ahhh! Some people found our group! Quick move the site!

Inafiscisis
7th Feb 2003, 18:59
The earth is flat! All hail the FES!!

MunkeeChum
8th Feb 2003, 00:27
The earth is neither flat nor spherical.

Its true shape is tetrahedral.

All those who disagree shall be wrong :)

Sunrise
8th Feb 2003, 07:09
I assure you it's flat. We even went and checked it by standing in the middle of a desert and it's completly flat.

Inafiscisis
8th Feb 2003, 12:09
Frankly I'd say the earth is an Octahedron, Dodecahedron or an Icosahedron. Tetrahedrons are a bit too pointy, dont'cha think?:rolleyes:

A tetrahedron is a four-sided object.

MunkeeChum
8th Feb 2003, 15:18
If the earth isn't tetrahedral i'll eat a sirens loin cloth....

Inafiscisis
8th Feb 2003, 16:01
*hands Munkeechum a siren's thong*

Start chewing, chum...

Hand-E-Food
10th Feb 2003, 02:05
So, Sunrise, how do you rise over a flat Earth?

Sunrise
13th Feb 2003, 22:40
<sunrise grabs a chair and whacks round Hand-E-Foods head and runs away>

Hand-E-Food
14th Feb 2003, 01:46
Ha! Knew he couldn't answer th... <thud>

DMA57361
14th Feb 2003, 13:53
So you've never read any of the Diskworld books? . . ;)

Hand-E-Food
15th Feb 2003, 03:36
Yeah, one of them.

But on Earth you can walk in any direction and eventually return to where you started. That must mean the the Earth repeats itself in every direction forever. How can the sun pass through the Earth to hide and cause darkness. Or is there a row of suns passing over us one at a time?

DMA57361
15th Feb 2003, 11:03
Originally posted by Hand-E-Food
. . . Or is there a row of suns passing over us one at a time?

Yes, actually.

You need to keep yourself more up-to-date on modern science! :rolleyes:

MunkeeChum
15th Feb 2003, 18:24
They are not suns. They are giant lamps being twirled above us by a race of humangous cheese beings....

We are nothing but childrens toys :p

kool_kats_rule
15th Feb 2003, 19:16
Originally posted by MunkeeChum
They are not suns. They are giant lamps being twirled above us by a race of humangous cheese beings....


I hope they're goats cheese. Mmmmm...goats cheese....

Hand-E-Food
17th Feb 2003, 02:33
So if we make a giant water cracker and launch it into the sky, the cracker might catch one of these lumps of cheese. Then when the cheese hits it, it falls back to Earth where we give it to a third-world nation and prevent them from starving (providing it doesn't fall on them). I never knew the suns' energy could be harnessed in so many ways.

But we'd better ask the goats first. They might not like us stealing their cheese.

DMA57361
17th Feb 2003, 11:16
"Woe upon those that thieve from the all powerful sky goat."

MunkeeChum
17th Feb 2003, 13:17
Originally posted by DMA57361
"Woe upon those that thieve from the all powerful sky goat."

"For his cheesy lumps are his essence. And there absence would foretell the destruction of Mankind"

Overmind
17th Feb 2003, 16:28
[FALLS OFF CHAIR AND ROLLS AROUND ON THE FLOOR LAUGHING BEFORE GIVING UP ON SANITY AND THEN STICKS CARROTS AND BROCCOLI UP NOSE, ETC]

Hand-E-Food
18th Feb 2003, 01:58
The cheese has carvings or does it communicate telepathically. Maybe that's why it shines so brightly. We cannot look at it so that we don't learn about our impending destruction.

Did the sky goat create us all?

Ghyron
18th Feb 2003, 02:26
p|-|33r 7|-|3 |337 5p34k f0r 17 w1|| b3 j00r u|71m473 d00m. j00 |-|4v3 n0 35c4p3. 7|-|3 5p4mm1ng w1|| d357r0y j00. |-|1d1ng 15 n07 4n 0p710n. d0n7 7|-|1nk j00 c4n 35c4p3. 1 0nc3 kn3w 4 c0mpu73r 7|-|47 |-|4d 4 d15rup71v3 |-|4rd dr1v3 4nd w45 r47|-|3r c|-|3353 w17|-| 0n10n5 4nd |1v3r w1|| j00 p|3453?

Hand-E-Food
18th Feb 2003, 08:20
Nah. I'm pretty sure goats don't speek |337 5p34k.

DMA57361
18th Feb 2003, 14:21
What I find more worrying is that I almost managed to read Ghyron's post without having to re-read any of the words. Man I need to turn off this computer....

Overmind
18th Feb 2003, 14:24
...I'm at the other end of the scale. Anyone willing to translate from goat-speak?

DMA57361
18th Feb 2003, 14:31
Originally posted by Ghyron
p|-|33r 7|-|3 |337 5p34k f0r 17 w1|| b3 j00r u|71m473 d00m. j00 |-|4v3 n0 35c4p3. 7|-|3 5p4mm1ng w1|| d357r0y j00. |-|1d1ng 15 n07 4n 0p710n. d0n7 7|-|1nk j00 c4n 35c4p3. 1 0nc3 kn3w 4 c0mpu73r 7|-|47 |-|4d 4 d15rup71v3 |-|4rd dr1v3 4nd w45 r47|-|3r c|-|3353 w17|-| 0n10n5 4nd |1v3r w1|| j00 p|3453?

It's leet-speak not goat speak. :P

Anyway.

Direct Translation
Pheer the leet speak for it will be your ultimate doom. You have no escape. The spamming will destroy you. Hiding is not an option. Don't think you can escape. I once knew a computer that had a disruptive hard drive and was rather cheese with onions and liver will you please.

Yes, the last sentance DOES say that . . .

MunkeeChum
19th Feb 2003, 10:47
What I find more worrying is that I almost managed to read Ghyron's post without having to re-read any of the words. Man I need to turn off this computer....

Me too....

But anyway:


|_37 |_|5 |23_|01(3 1/\/ 7|-|3 5|-|4[])0\/\/ 0F 7|-|3 4|_|_ p0\/\/3|2f|_||_ 2|<`/ g047 :p

JSWY
19th Feb 2003, 20:01
<Curls up in corner and quietly implodes>

Arctic_Wolf
19th Feb 2003, 20:47
Stupid People, Flat Earth Society, Cheese Beings and Sky Goats?

I thought I was all alone, until now. :D

MunkeeChum
19th Feb 2003, 20:51
You have never been alone.

He has always been with you.

Chandrich the Sky Goat watches over us all.

Arctic_Wolf
20th Feb 2003, 00:16
All hail the Sky Goat and its prophet Munkee Chum, the Big Cheese. :D

Hand-E-Food
20th Feb 2003, 01:48
Chandrich? Chandrich? What sort of a stupid name is that?!? The sky-goat's name is Wilma!

All hail Wilma, the bringer of shining cheese, the creater of everything, and protector of the Flat Earth! All hail the sky-goat! Hurrah!

Originally posted by MunkeeChum
Let us rejoice in the shadow of the all powerfull Sky Goat! :p
The Sky-Goat casts no shadow. Her cheese enlightens her underbelly, showing us her giving and caring bosom.

Ghyron
20th Feb 2003, 03:29
That is only one of the many dialects of 1337 speak.

Here is another:

ONE : FORWARDSLASH-BACKSLASH-FORWARDSLASH-BACKSLASH : FIVE : ZERO : PIPESTEM-TWO : PIPESTEM-TWO : DASH-LESSTHENSIGN PIPESTEM THREE : PIPESTEM-UNDERSCORE-PIPESTEM SEVEN : SEVEN : PIPESTEM-DASH-PIPESTEM : THREE : PIPESTEM-TWO : THREE : ONE : FIVE : FORWARDSLASH-BACKSLASH-FORWARDSLASH : ZERO : SIX : ZERO : FOUR : SEVEN :

MunkeeChum
20th Feb 2003, 12:06
Originally posted by Hand-E-Food
Chandrich? Chandrich? What sort of a stupid name is that?!? The sky-goat's name is Wilma!

All hail Wilma, the bringer of shining cheese, the creater of everything, and protector of the Flat Earth! All hail the sky-goat! Hurrah!

The Sky-Goat casts no shadow. Her cheese enlightens her underbelly, showing us her giving and caring bosom.

WILMA???? Chandrich is better than Wilma. I dont think our local etherial being should be named after a prehistoric housewife.

But i do belive this to be a democracy. So will start a new thread entitled: Under what name shall we worship the Sky-Goat ?

JSWY
20th Feb 2003, 12:08
That is really taking it too far, and, arn't we wondering a little OT here?

Ah to hell with it

<Implodes again>

Ghyron
20th Feb 2003, 21:07
There is no topic.

Sunrise
22nd Feb 2003, 20:36
<puts on a goats mask and starts dancing round a large peice of cheese>
all hail the sky-goat:D

Arctic_Wolf
22nd Feb 2003, 20:42
HOW DARE YOU IMPERSONATE THE SKY-GOAT! SLAY THE HEATHEN!

Master_Ryan
23rd Feb 2003, 01:19
<and this was how the sky goat chesse religion was formed...>

MunkeeChum
23rd Feb 2003, 16:53
Originally posted by Sunrise
<puts on a goats mask and starts dancing round a large peice of cheese>
all hail the sky-goat:D

THOU SHALL NOT WORSHIP FALSE IDOLS!!!

AlphaOmega
23rd Feb 2003, 22:12
Okay, time to get back on-topic, or I'll use my lock-stick. :D

Ghyron
23rd Feb 2003, 22:30
I do say, I think the topic keeled over and died a few pages ago.

Arctic_Wolf
23rd Feb 2003, 23:56
Help! Help! We're bein' repressed! :D

Anyway please oh great an mighty wielder of many sticks, please return the Sacred poll on the holy name of the sky-goat to us, by moving it into the Community Chat, aswell as this chessily blessed place.

P.S: If you can't see through my Fanatic speech then here's a translation its;

Please move the "What shall we call the Sky-Goat?" poll and this thread to the StarTopia community chat. :)

Ghyron
24th Feb 2003, 01:53
Or just back to here, because few people even bother to look at the community chat anyway.

AlphaOmega
24th Feb 2003, 16:47
heh heh heh...

The sky goat poll is put in a place where nobody will ever find it...

MunkeeChum
24th Feb 2003, 19:30
Why did you lock it?

Ghyron
24th Feb 2003, 23:53
AlphaOmega didn't lock the thread, it was the mod of the forum it got transported to. AlphaOmega has no control over those forums.

MunkeeChum
25th Feb 2003, 16:52
Bah to them i say.

Hand-E-Food
26th Feb 2003, 06:09
MonkeeChum, let us unite against the disbelievers! (It's 7 against 5, we're sure to win!) Despite what people believe Wilma's name to be, we can extend her spirit, strength and girth with our posts!

Who is with me?!

All hail the Sky Goat!

MunkeeChum
26th Feb 2003, 14:58
But I fear retribution my son. This heathen minority have an official in their midst.

We cannot win against an enemy moderator.

Why will our lord the Sky-Goat not deliver us from these evils?

Arctic_Wolf
26th Feb 2003, 21:59
Alas their evil SPAM lord protects them, and Chandilma Gudjonnson has not the powet wit honly 7 Believers.

Also, were has my attempt to re-commence the Holy Name finding gone? :confused:

Master_Ryan
1st Mar 2003, 01:53
SPAM WARNING THE FIRST. NUMBER 2 = BOOT!

(had to put the foot down somewhere, you just happened to be the last straw and an obvious foothold)

kool_kats_rule
1st Mar 2003, 14:05
eeeep

Arctic_Wolf
2nd Mar 2003, 00:46
:confused: What just happened?

AlphaOmega
2nd Mar 2003, 08:55
Too much not on topicness.

Arctic_Wolf
2nd Mar 2003, 17:31
There is a lot that not on topicness going around, the boards are getting restless. Especialy with blood amidst our midst.

Hand-E-Food
3rd Mar 2003, 00:48
I like to think of it as an extension on the StarTopia role-playing.