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Xcom
3rd Sep 2002, 18:45
Following the tutorial which came with the editor, I made 2 rooms, a table and a guard. Created a starting point and linked some weapons to it (blackjack, sword, arrows, etc.). Computed AI pathfinding db, etc. All works well, except when I select a weapon (say blackjack), it doesn't appear in my hand in the lower-right corner. (it does appear as selected in lower-left corner). The same is with arrows. When I press "action" button, nothing happens. I don't see a bow, nothing. The tutorial says that you don't need to equip Garrett with a bow as it appears automatically when you give him arrows. I must be missing something here. :confused:

Also, the guard behaves weirdly. When he fights me, I can pick him up, like a corpse. (LOL). What the problem here?

Xcom
3rd Sep 2002, 21:44
Nevermind that. "script_load gen" fixed this.
But now, I have another problem.
My 2 rooms are too bright and I only have like 1 torch. I am also pretty sure that I disabled "light_bright". Tutorial mentions that they should be completely dark. I also loaded miss1.mis and it is lit as usual (so it's not gamma setting). What might be the problem here?

amievil?
3rd Sep 2002, 22:43
make sure you have a room brush around the room, then build rooms, and do the pathfinding database. that should fix the lighting prob your having.

Xcom
3rd Sep 2002, 23:11
Originally posted by amievil?
make sure you have a room brush around the room, then build rooms, and do the pathfinding database. that should fix the lighting prob your having.

I do have room brushes (the purple ones, right? I shift+insert'ed them as the tut suggested)

:confused:

edit:

they do overlap each other a lil bit. Is that allowed?
Also, the name reads: Default Room(0) - unset - . Maybe this -unset- has smth to do with it?

Xcom
4th Sep 2002, 02:45
aargh, this is driving me mad. :mad: This -unset- thing is probably what's causing this. I opened other mission again and the room brushes are marked as small, large, etc. I deleted a room brush (in this other mission) and then re-created it. After portalizing it became "large" again. Why isn't it working in my case? I am probably making some stupid mistake somewhere..

Komag
4th Sep 2002, 04:36
screw the original tutorial - use mine :) (It's much easier to follow and get right)

Caradavin1
4th Sep 2002, 05:09
Komag's tut is excellent.

Telliamed_
4th Sep 2002, 06:53
Originally posted by Xcom
aargh, this is driving me mad. :mad: This -unset- thing is probably what's causing this. I opened other mission again and the room brushes are marked as small, large, etc. I deleted a room brush (in this other mission) and then re-created it. After portalizing it became "large" again. Why isn't it working in my case? I am probably making some stupid mistake somewhere..

That's just the EAX setting. It only adds echo and reverb effects to the room.

What's your ambient light setting? I think a default world starts out with ambient light or 17 or 20. Try lowering it to 13, or 11 for really dark. But don't go lower than that.

In D1, ambient light is a single value: 'ambient 13'
In D2, you can have colored lighting so it's three values: 'ambient 13 13 13' (red, green, blue)

Xcom
4th Sep 2002, 16:10
Originally posted by Telliamed
What's your ambient light setting? I think a default world starts out with ambient light or 17 or 20. Try lowering it to 13, or 11 for really dark. But don't go lower than that.

In D1, ambient light is a single value: 'ambient 13'
In D2, you can have colored lighting so it's three values: 'ambient 13 13 13' (red, green, blue)

Of course, dammit. Yes, I knew about ambient lighting but I was typing "ambient 0" in dromed2. That''s why it didn't work. Now I typed rgb values and it did. :D Apparently, it was initially set to very high (I dunno how). More than 20 anyway because when I set it to 19 19 19, it became pretty normal (=good). Thanks. :)

Btw, is there any way to see what ambient light is currently set to?

Komag, I have your tutorial and it's very nicely done. I've read it. Didn't actually followed it to the end because I decided to sort out this lighting problem first. However, I couldn't resist in creating a friendly guard attacking the servant. ;) :D

amievil?
4th Sep 2002, 21:32
i just got dromed 2 up and running and after playing with it for a few mins, i also had the same problem with the lighting. the ambient was set really high i suppose. must be default ambient set too high. (i didnt actually build anything other than the very small 16x16 square heh)

by the way....if you hit shift+q in dromed 2, how do you un do this? whats the command? in dromed 1 its simply p......i tried that and shiftq again and didnt drop?

Xcom
5th Sep 2002, 01:49
If I knew what you are talking about, I'd definitely help you but alas..I am just a clueless noob :p who, btw, has a question of his own [late edit]which is solved by now[/edit] :p

Stile451
5th Sep 2002, 03:34
amievil?, shift+semicolon to bring up the command line and type in unfly. (You are asking about getting out of fly mode right? I always use the command line for stuff like that).

xcom, you did of course light the level, Dromed 2 automatically sets light bright if you haven't lit the level.

Xcom
5th Sep 2002, 03:55
Originally posted by Salvage
xcom, you did of course light the level, Dromed 2 automatically sets light bright if you haven't lit the level.

Of course. ;)

Stile451
5th Sep 2002, 04:14
Good.

I think you can see what the ambient is set to in the mission parameters dialog box(or one of the other dialog boxes in the same menu, I forget).

Overlapping room brushes are a good thing(allows sound to propagate through more than one room brush), but not if they overlap too much(you can't have the center of one room brush inside any part of another room brush).

For another of course for your lighting problem, have you done everything in the tools menu at least twice?

For the dark shadows(if this is what I think it is) you can't fix them, but you can use light_bright and move around the 3d view so you can see the architecture well enough.

Telliamed_
5th Sep 2002, 07:05
Current settings are found in Mission Parameters -> Rendering Parameters. The numbers in this box are floating point from 0.00 - 1.00. So you have to translate between the numbers for the 'ambient' command which are integers from 0 - 255.

The default setting is... 0.25. That's 64!!!. :eek:

Wasn't it 0 - 100 in D1?

Komag
5th Sep 2002, 13:50
I just hit p to get out of fly mode, just like in D1. Perhaps I set this a long time ago and forgot.

You can just open up your default.bnd with notepad and make sure these lines are there:

; playtest commands

game bind q+shift "+fly 1"
game bind e+shift "+fly -1"
game bind p "unfly"

Xcom
5th Sep 2002, 15:47
Originally posted by Salvage
For another of course for your lighting problem, have you done everything in the tools menu at least twice?

Yes, I am doing that regularly... ;) except "Summonize" (sp?). Dunno what that is.



For the dark shadows(if this is what I think it is) you can't fix them, but you can use light_bright and move around the 3d view so you can see the architecture well enough.

Yes, thanks, I figured it might help only didn't realise it will affect editor's view also.

I have couple of questions again:

1. What is exactly the difference (if any) between the 2 sorts omni/spot lights? Ones that appear as little yellow crosses and the ones which appear as yellow boxes (the ones you create thru the menu)

2. Scenario: a room with a carpet in the center. The whole thing is made out of two air brushes. Am I correct to assume that I need 5 room brushes to make sound work correctly? (4 around the carpet and 1 surrounding the carpet air brush)

Stile451
5th Sep 2002, 22:42
1. Don't know.

2. You only need 1(one) room brush unless your room is really big .

Xcom
5th Sep 2002, 23:00
Originally posted by Salvage
2. You only need 1(one) room brush unless your room is really big .

Thanks.
Phew..good thing I asked. (I thought I needed a room brush for every different type of surface.)

amievil?
6th Sep 2002, 02:07
from my perspective( i dealth with both of them thoroughly in dread) the difference between the two lights is that omni's are best used for things such as lit windows, or another use could be to give a false sense of light when used together with other lights. spot light points are best when you want to have a wider area lit, as in shining one down upon the side of a building or on a statue. both of these lights give you a way to light the level without having the actual lights there(like torches and electric wall lights).

Telliamed_
6th Sep 2002, 06:02
Originally posted by Xcom
1. What is exactly the difference (if any) between the 2 sorts omni/spot lights? Ones that appear as little yellow crosses and the ones which appear as yellow boxes (the ones you create thru the menu)

The two lights are Light Brushes and Light Objects.

A Light Brush is created by using the GFH (the buttons at the bottom of the screen): click on 'Create' then click on 'Light'. Light brushes appear in the editor as yellow crosses; the size of the brush is proportional to its brightness. Light from light brushes is precalculated only. Light brushes can only be omni lights.

A Light Object is an object brush. It has an object ID and can be referenced by the object system (linking, sending messages, etc.). Light from an object is precalculated if the Renderer\Light property is used, but may be dynamic if Renderer\AnimLight is used. Light objects can be omni or spot lights.

For providing static, ambient lighting to an area, such as natural lighting, then brushes are simplest. To achieve dynamic lighting, or spot lights, you have to use objects. The limit on the number of objects you can create is lower than the limit on brushes; so you can't create as many light objects as you can light brushes.

Xcom
6th Sep 2002, 17:55
Thanks, very useful to know. Btw, what are the limitations on brushes and objects and how can tell how many I already have?

Anyway, I am moving on to more advanced stuff now.

1) Difficulty. Firstly, how do I simulate/setup difficulty mode in DromED? I mean when I go into the Game Mode, I'd like to be in Expert (or the Hard) mode. Basically, how do I know which mode I am in and how do I change that? (Is it possible?)

I also found out (by looking in OM's) that you can Add->Difficulty->Destroy to an object and it will disappear in the specified diff. mode (0-normal, 1-hard, 2-experrt, I suspect... but correct me if I am wrong). But, I need to do more complicated stuff than that. Firstly, I need Garrett to start with a certain amount of loot (to buy equipment). But, I wan't him to have 300$ in Normal mode, 200$ in Hard and 100$ in Expert modes, respectively. I was thinking that I could create 3 coins (for instance), each is 100$ worth. Then "Contains" link them to the StartingPoint. Then make it so that 1 coin "gets destroyed" in Hard/Expert and 2 coins get destroyed in Expert only. Will this work? I mean if an object gets destroyed while being "contains" linked to Garrett, wouldn't that cause an error?

Secondly, how would I go about making (for example) a guard's vision better in Hard and even more better in Expert? (the only possible way I can think of right now, is making 3 identical guards but w/ different vision setting and "destroying" them according to diff.mode thus leaving only one but is there any other way?)

2) Metaproperties. How do I assign/remove the on the run (for example when I enter certain room, a guard must go on patrol and when I exit, he must stop)? I know this can be done in "Conversation" settings but since I don't need a conversation there, I need to do it some other way.

3) Textures I read some tutorial which explains how to get a custom graphic in the game but what I am curious about is how does the game "know" what tetxure corresponds to which surface? For example, I made a nice rock texture but would it produce rock footsteps by itself? (hardly, methinks) Where is this defined?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. :)

Stile451
6th Sep 2002, 20:13
1. process_difficulty(or something like that) and then the difficulty #(0,1,2) DO NOT SAVE AFTER DOING THIS. Secondly, create custom metaproperties and add the metaproperties to the guards at the beginning of the mission(this can be done in a conversation or using S&R, for example. There is probably a better way to do it).

2. You don't need to have a "conversation" in a conversation. The conversation method is used by many builders(it's basically a standard) who need to do things that can only work in conversations. Your example of adding m-does_patrol(I think that's the metaprop) to a guard when you enter the room and remove it when you exit the room is pretty much the ideal condition to use a conversation to add a metaproperty. Put an AI in a blue room and change the efficiency setting on that AI to the never efficient(not the actual setting, but you get the idea), use that AI as the one performing the conversations(all effect conversations). Use either a boundstrigger or a room with the TrigRoomPlayer script on it to trigger the conversation.

You could also use S&R, but there's a different process to it(I'll leave that for you to find out, meaning it's another thing I don't remember).

3. I don't know how to link sounds with the texture, but the sounds associated with the texture are found in one of the schema files.


There's a wealth of knowledge at The Editors Guild (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=85) (search function), and at Dromed Central(link in the drop down menu above).

Xcom
6th Sep 2002, 22:44
Originally posted by Salvage
1. process_difficulty(or something like that) and then the difficulty #(0,1,2) DO NOT SAVE AFTER DOING THIS. Secondly, create custom metaproperties and add the metaproperties to the guards at the beginning of the mission(this can be done in a conversation or using S&R, for example. There is probably a better way to do it).


Firstly, thank you for your time, Salvage.

Following your advice, I found the difficulty setup process over at ttlg. ;)

Stile451
6th Sep 2002, 23:43
No problem with me giving you my time which I would waste if I wasn't helping out.

If you haven't noticed yet, when you have a partial command(even a letter will do) in the command box you can tab through the commands that have that letter combination at the beginning. Leave the box empty and you can tab through all the commands. You need the command box active to do this or you end up going through your brushes and objects.

Telliamed_
7th Sep 2002, 09:45
Originally posted by Xcom Will this work? I mean if an object gets destroyed while being "contains" linked to Garrett, wouldn't that cause an error?
No problem. Just look at the original missions and see how they did it. (Also, there's a tutorial on Stores at Dromed Central.)


Secondly, how would I go about making (for example) a guard's vision better in Hard and even more better in Expert? (the only possible way I can think of right now, is making 3 identical guards but w/ different vision setting and "destroying" them according to diff.mode thus leaving only one but is there any other way?)
Yeah, that's pretty much it.


2) Metaproperties. How do I assign/remove the on the run (for example when I enter certain room, a guard must go on patrol and when I exit, he must stop)?
There is a PatrolTrap for this.
Create a concrete room for the trigger. Add the script "TrigRoomPlayer" to the room. Create a PatrolTrap. Make ControlDevice links from the room to the PatrolTrap, and from the PatrolTrap to the AI.


but what I am curious about is how does the game "know" what tetxure corresponds to which surface?
It's all arranged in the Textures tree of the object hierarchy. When you add a new texture, it is unknown and not added to any category. You can select each texture then drag it to where it needs to go. Not the most elegant way to do things, but what about Dromed is?

Xcom
7th Sep 2002, 17:31
Originally posted by Telliamed
It's all arranged in the Textures tree of the object hierarchy. When you add a new texture, it is unknown and not added to any category. You can select each texture then drag it to where it needs to go. Not the most elegant way to do things, but what about Dromed is?

Cool. But do I need to save gamesys after this?

Btw, I've read most of the stuff @ DromEd Central except S&R.
(some tuts are written for Thief TDP and don't mention it :mad: )

Also, how can import a part of other level into my level? Is there any way to make a prefab (like in Quake)? What I need is a Garrett's house from Ambush. Actually, I only need the interior of it. I figured it would make a nice intermission/briefing level. I partially figured out how area brushes work but they just hide (and not delete) the geometry outside. Is there any way to delete everything that's outside an area brush?

Stile451
7th Sep 2002, 18:34
1. Yes, you need to save the gamesys.

2. You want a multibrush. There's a little problem with them, you won't keep the same textures unless they are the same numbers and order in the mission your putting the multibrush into that they are in the level you take it from.

Xcom
7th Sep 2002, 19:05
Originally posted by Salvage
2. You want a multibrush. There's a little problem with them, you won't keep the same textures unless they are the same numbers and order in the mission your putting the multibrush into that they are in the level you take it from.

Ehh, can you be more specific with that? (I am still a semi-n00b, ya know :D ). I realised that I don't need to actually import the stuff in my mission because this will be a separate mission. I just need to delete all the stuff from Ambush, everything except Garrett's house. So, you are saying that I need to multibrush it. What should I do next?

Stile451
7th Sep 2002, 19:30
Oh, if that's what you want to do, then you can save the multibrush, delete everything(don't start a new level, as the texture problem will come up), then load the multibrush and save.

Or you could do it the hard way and area brush everything around it and delete what's out there.

Xcom
7th Sep 2002, 21:33
Originally posted by Salvage
delete everything

That sounds simpler than it is. :(
I multibrushed the house and saved it. Then I went on deleting stuff. Man, that would take me ages to delete this brush by brush (Ambush is pretty big level). I decided to put an area brush around some brushes, multibrush them, and then delete. But that crashed DromEd. Futhermore, I could not start it again (apparently it has some memory allocating problems), only after reboot :mad:

I may have to go with the other sollution and live with texture loss problem. At least it loads the geometry w/o any problems.

Xcom
8th Sep 2002, 16:52
Today I made an important discovery. Yey... :D
I was trying to recreate some of the nice lighting, you know, where in a corridor, for example, you have those shadow "paths" or at least some irregular contrasty areas between light and shadows. However, as most tutorials suggested, I just placed a torch on the wall which resulted in pretty smoothly lit corridor. I tried to mess a bit with light settings but the only thing I could do, is just set brightness level higher or lower but it was still pretty DAMN smooth.
So, I scratched my head (twice) and figured it must be something else. And then it hit me. I remembered that most torches I've seen in OMs are placed in small alcoves in the walls and not directly on a wall. This kinda prevents a torch from emitting light in a cirle. It now looks more like a cone..

Cool. :D

(Welcome Xcom to the world of common knowledge)

Xcom
12th Sep 2002, 17:42
A few questions (again?? :D )

1) Under TrolPt you have something like PausePt. I assumed that when AI reaches this, it will stop for a bit. I looked in this marker properties and it has Watch Link assigned with some specified waiting time. However, this does't work. AI just keeps on patroling w/o any stops. Help?

2) When I contain link an AI (for example) to a purse, you can specify its "location" in DATA, like for.ex. BELT. It also has HAND. Again, I assumed it will put an object in his hand. And again, it didn't work. I need him to hold a papyrus. Papyrus just misteriously vanishes until I change the data back to "belt" again. Anyhow, what's this "hand" for?

3) Is it possible to track the amount of loot player has found so far and then trigger something or send TurnOn signal? If yes, how? Basically, I want a player to recieve an item in his inventory (auatomatically) when he has 100 loot. Note: this doesn't need to check any objectives.

4) Something I need to understand. I created a basic S&R setup. A table as receptron and a potion as the source. Whenever player tosses this potion on the table, table frobs a button. Button switches on .. a light. It works fine except that when you pick up a potion, the light stays on (that's probably buttons fault). What puzzled me, is when I replaced this button with an on/off switch it didn't work at all.
My seme-stupid guess is that somehow this switch can't handle the signal while button can. What I really want to know, is while potion is on the table, does this mean that table continiously frobs the object? If so, can I make to do it only once?

(In relation to that, I was planning on elimating button and making the table itself frobbable. By a) adding StdButton script b) Setting FrobInfo to World=Script and c) setting Max Pick Distance to negative so player can't frob it manually. Then make table frob itself in reseptron reaction. Will this work? )

5) Last but not least. How important is EAX? I've read some people at TTLG said it sounded like crap. Should I provide my brush rooms with eax values? Also, where can I find a list with EAX vlaues explanations? Like what the heck does Large Dead mean? Okay, I know that one but there is a dozen more which I don't know.

Phew



While I am at it..
6) Is there any way to make RopeArrows longer? (not the arrows themselves, of course, but the rope which is deployed). I examined the structure of RopeArrow archetype and nothing seems to specify length. It does have DeployRope script. God, I hope this is not some hardcoded data.

Stile451
12th Sep 2002, 22:35
3. You could probably do it, but I'm not sure what you need to monitor. You will probably have to use a QuestVarTrap though.

5. Put in EAX, if someone doesn't like it they can turn it off in the options. It sounds really good on my machine. I've seen a list of the descriptions of what they sound like somewhere, but can't remember. It can be very difficult to set up EAX if you can't use it.

6. I'm pretty sure that you can't change the length of player shot rope arrows. You may be able to resize a rope and set it in place(like in Bonehoard).

Xcom
13th Sep 2002, 04:50
Thanks for trying, Salvage.
Pity the ropes can't be made longer.

Meanwhile I have sorted out nr.1 and nr.2.

Still figuring out how to monitor loot. I've read the s&r tut in dromed central where someone explained how to make permanent in-game store. He also needed this loot tracking system but he achieved this via a very complex system of teleporting objects at certain heights which represent loot amount or something like that. I've got serious headache after reading that stuff.

I've been also playing with these stimuli stuff but so far with no luck. One of my "bright" ideas was to create an AI (frog) in the blue room with amount of hitpoints which equal amount of loot in a level. Also give it TrigSlain script. Then, by using custom stim make garrett a receptron and every loot object a source (this is a small level). Then, when garrett picks the loot, he will deal certain amount of damage to the frog. This damage equals sources' intensity and, obviously, also equals the value of that particular loot object. NOT WORKING..dammit. :mad:

Telliamed_
13th Sep 2002, 06:29
It's done with QVarTriggers. There's likely a dark stat variable for tracking loot, but I can't seem to find it. So, I'd do it this way...

Create a loot objective, but set it to hidden. So long as "goal_visible_9" (or whatever number) remains "0", then it won't affect the real objectives, and the player won't see the objective complete message. But the state will still change, so you can track it with a QVarTrigger with the QVar info set to "=1:goal_state_9".


The contact type of receptron can only really be used for triggering as a one-time thing. When the source makes contact with the receptron, it fires once and nothing more. If you change it to a radius stim source, then the receptron will fire continuously while the source is within range; then simply stop firing when it goes away.

In fact, S&R doesn't really work well for negative events. But there are ways around it. Totality's guide to S&R is likely the best source of information. I was able to create a workable effect using a radius source, and sending the TurnOn messages through a RevertTrap. While the receptron was being stimulated, it would keep sending TurnOn and the RevertTrap would remain active. When the source was moved away, the receptron stopped firing and the RevertTrap eventually (a few milliseconds later) sent the TurnOff message. Since I was controlling a door, all those TurnOns didn't matter. But you couldn't do that with something like a sound trap.


Regarding EAX, only add EAX if you actually have an EAX capable sound card. A well laid-out EAX makes a mission sound spectacular. But when the EAX isn't appropriate - say, a live auditorium setting in a small wooden closet - it detracts from the immersion. I've played a few missions where the EAX was applied, but because the designer's hardware didn't support it, it wasn't tested. Getting EAX right without actually testing it is essentially impossible.

The EAX is basically just tweaking two things: echo and reverb. A "Live" room has a whole lot of reverb. A "Dead" room has absolutely none. Small rooms don't echo as much as large ones; a hallway is just a normal sized room; more echo than small but not so much as large. The other settings are more fine-tuned to sound like the area they're named. "Living Room" is like a "Large Normal", but while the later may be stone or wood, the former is likely carpetted and thus not so echoey. But some, like "City" are hard to explain. You'll just have to listen to it yourself.

Xcom
13th Sep 2002, 23:37
Awwww, QVarTrigger worked like a charm. Me thanks you very much. :D :D :D :D

Interesting, in a hidden (from the player) conversation I used "Add link" to automatically give player a loot item. It works okay, only it adds this loot as a separate item. I checked and it does have Combine Type Loot so I don't know what's the problem. This is, however, not really important.

Too bad about EAX. :( I think my snd.card support it, not sure though. I'll have to look into it. Tnx anyway.

Stile451
14th Sep 2002, 01:23
For your loot problem I think that you need to start the combine type. I've done this in my autoloot demo (http://www16.brinkster.com/salvage/dromed/download/autoloot.htm), but can't remember off the top of my head how I did it.:confused:

Xcom
20th Sep 2002, 18:14
Originally posted by Salvage
6. I'm pretty sure that you can't change the length of player shot rope arrows. You may be able to resize a rope and set it in place(like in Bonehoard).

I think that you might wanna know that it is very much possible. It was a bit tricky to find out. I've set up the editor to keep the state of the game saved when you go back to the editor mode from the game mode. So, I fired a rope arrow in the game mode and examined it in the editor. Apparently, when deployed, a RopeArrowRope object gets created (via DeployRope script, probably) and attached to the arrow thru "Owns" link. I found this object in the hierarchy, under physical->TerrainLike->climbable->RopeArrowRope. It has Physics->Misc->Rope setting where you can define length. Normally set to 30 units. I've set it to 50 and, oh boy, I have longer ropes now. :p