PDA

View Full Version : FM Question : Embracing the Enemy



clayman
31st Aug 2002, 18:42
Where's Montague ? I've moved into the next area after disabling Alex, and have KO'ed the three guards in front of the double door 3 story building. I cannot find the key to those doors, or to the sewer door off the library back near Montague's quarters. I hear someone pacing around in the building with the double metal doors, and see a light in the window of the 3rd floor. Also, across from that building is another lighted 2nd floor area, but I can't reach it. I've stacked crates(grumble, grumble) in various places but can't latch onto the skinny ledges that run around both these buildings. There seems to be no place to shoot the rope arrows so helpfully provided. I've gone back and deposited Alex at the beginning, and also gotten the wine. But this (apparent) endgame area where Montague is probably hiding is giving me trouble. How do I move on or gain access to these buildings ? :)

Oh, by the way, Alex's body has disappeared twice on me, good thing I have about 8 saves. :)

Goit
31st Aug 2002, 21:04
Here's what you need to do....

In the room where you encountered Monatgue and Alex are some doors that lead out to a balcony. If you head out there and look up, you should see a rope arrow hanging down from a wooden beam. Head up the rope and through the open window into the attic in order to pursue Montague to the tower he goes to hide in when threatened.

Hope that helps.

G.

clayman
31st Aug 2002, 23:49
Goit - I've already done that....I think. :confused:

Up the rope, through the attic, then down to a open area with grated windows in the floor. Across those is a guard tower with a sleeping seated guard. Nothing else there but some "doodle paper".. Down the steps into the courtyard area there is a primary building(with lighted room on upper floor), and another building with a lit second floor to the left of it. I cannot access either of these buildings. The only other way to go is over the short wall left of the entrance to the sleeping seated guard. This leads back to a longish drop back at the starting point, or a slighly shorter drop through a triangular hole that has a gem and some bones. From there its another long drop back to the starting point's courtyard.

As stated above, I've wandered all through this area and cannot find a way into either building. Some more help would be appreciated. I've moved on(for now) to Elevator and am having great fun so far with a very quirky, disjointed-feeling mission. :)

Goit
1st Sep 2002, 00:07
Ahhh, OK, well here's what comes next (you're not far off the end of the mission):

Go through the attic and eliminate the guard in the circular tower room, as you described. Your objective is the top floor of the large building, where you will find Montague. Proceed across the rooftops, past some windows overlook Montague's living rooms where you were earlier in the mission. Do not drop to the ground (though you can get back up if you do) but head across the flat roof until you can jump to a narrow ledge protruding from the wall that bounds this area.

When on that ledge, head along it until oppsoite some kind of small garden shed. Jump onto the roof of the shed and then onto a ledge that runs around the main building. Follow this ledge around, in the direction that takes you away from the guards (clockwise) until you come to some vines. You can climb these vines (if I remember right, Garrett will make some kind of comment to this effect) Head up these vines, to the next ledge, then around some more, up some more vines and through the window.

For the final part of the mission read the next spoiler:

Kill Montague (an arrow from the darkness will take care of him), grab any loot and head down the the bottom level of the tower (using the stairs) until you find a sewer hatch and lever to open it. Head down there, following the only possible path and you will emerge in the secret room at the back of Montague's lining rooms that those windows overlooked earlier. From there you can make good your escape back to the starting point.

Hope all that helps!

G.

Peter_Smith
1st Sep 2002, 09:04
That is correct. Goit has given you good advice, but there is an important detail missing -- how to get onto the roof. I had played the mission twice and not discovered that way, so out of curiosity I went back in there this evening and found it. However, I could see the way onto the roof only after I went onto the roof in reverse, by stacking crates near the ledge (so the ledge problem had already been solved by the crate stacking), but once on the rooftop I could see the intended route, which is pretty hard to see otherwise.

The way I got up to the vine was to stack three crates at the back of the building using the stack 'em up procedure to jump onto the ledge directly, bypassing the shed roof. Yeh, in retrospect is is clear that that is not the correct, intended route.

Anyway, clayman, if you need a clue about how I got onto the roof, here it is:

Go up to the tower, jump on the table, creep out of the window, lean forward to see a wood beam shoot a rope into the beam and go down. The beam cannot be spotted unless you lean out.

If there is a more obvious way, please let us know about it, Goit.

Embracing the enemy is a fun mission. I have played it twice and Ghosted it once.

Telliamed_
1st Sep 2002, 14:56
I used a third method to get up. Shot a rope arrow into the shed as close to the top as I could get it, then climbed up and was able to mantle onto the ledge. I had to stand back a bit so the arrow would go into the wood horizontally, giving me enough space to shimmy up.

It really is a fantastic mission. Lots of good ol' classic sneaking. While at a few critical places there's only one way to go, much of it is very free-form. Reading the walkthrough was revealing. Sneaking through that hall with the marble floor and bright lights? I wouldn't dare. Played hide-and-seek with the watcher instead and, while I set the alarm off, I was able to hide under the camera until it calmed down. And then there was that one gem. The walkthrough says you should drop down, and use a slowfall potion. Why should I with all these convenient crates? Dropped them all into the crevice and was able to get down without taking any damage, grab the gem, then (by using the staircase method) climb back out again. That was a lot of fun.

I should probably go play it again. One place I didn't get to the first time was into the guard's room just before the main bedroom. Is there anything interesting in there?

Goit
1st Sep 2002, 16:36
Originally posted by Telliamed
I should probably go play it again. One place I didn't get to the first time was into the guard's room just before the main bedroom. Is there anything interesting in there?

No, just more guards (and probable death).

clayman
1st Sep 2002, 17:08
Finished. And it seems through faulty logic of mine, I suppose, I missed all the ways into the tower without asking for help. :)

I saw the vines at ground level right away, and assumed(always dangerous to do that, I know) that I could climb them like those that lead to the roof and the lone spider at the very beginning of the mission. Wrong, those vines are just for show. So I thought that all the vines on that building were for show, and went about searching for another way up or in. I really thought I would find a key somewhere, and spent a lot of time searching for one, never assuming that Montague took it in with him. I also sweated over that locked sewer lid, accessed from Monty's library entrance, and climbed into some ridiculous places tryng to find it, assuming(see, I'm using that word again) that the sewer was somehow involved with getting in, not out.

I never was able to crate stack anywhere at ground level or from those two little upper grassy courtyard areas onto the ledges of either building, or the shed. Of course, crate stacking in and of itself is terribly boring, and I won't do more than three anywhere. But it seems three works for you taffers. And I couldn't get a rope to work either on the shed, I just bounced away. Oh well...

I did Ghost the marble foyer area just for fun, then conked them both out of meanness, since I was playing blackjack mode anyway.

I would have never tried, or thought to try, to crate out of that triangular gem place, Telliamed. That's pretty extreme. Do you like to bungee jump also ? :D

I disagree that the mission was largely free-form, I felt very shoehorned into doing things in order. But a very good mission indeed. Alex disappearing intermittently and the illogic of the vines working/not working as climbing aids are my only other complaints.

Random thoughts......Has anyone attempted to "bust" the game and its logic by roping up to the rafters in the library, breaking the windows, climbing out and disrupting the tower section(by killing everyone, etc.) ? Does Montague hide somehwere else once he sees his guards dead, or is that too much intuitiveness to ask for ? Is there any way to get to Montague from behind, via the same route(rope back through the attic and drop down on him) ? I assume he's invincible from that way as well, since you can't kill him before he runs out of the room from Alex.

Good mission, just a half-notch below Errand Boy, Equilibrium, and The Ritual as the best of 2000, IMO. :)

Telliamed_
2nd Sep 2002, 05:34
Rope climbing in tight places is a very difficult skill. It's all about getting the angle of the arrow right and then knowing how to turn to avoid getting knocked off the rope. And for mantling only ledges like that, you have to look at it at an angle; straight-on doesn't leave enough space.

Bungee jumping? I've never had the opportunity. It took a long time and many failed attempts to get those crates stacked. The crevice is rather narrow. And when one of the crates broke I was afraid I'd have to restart, but there was just barely enough for me to climb out of there.

For starters, I don't think there's any place to stick an arrow in that room. You could stack your way up there, though. But I don't think it matters. I think that, for the purposes of the game, the Montague you see first is a "stunt double". I once decided to beat Alex by killink Montague first, but he seemed to be invulnerable to everything, including flashbombs.

Anyway, considering that AIs in Thief don't climb ladders, there's no possible way he could "run" to the tower. It's a trick! You didn't kill the "real" Montague! And in the sequel, he comes back and tries to kill you!