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Robertus_Aurelius
27th Aug 2002, 03:53
Maybe the eldar god is the one pulling all the strings; considering the Vampires (Janos and Co) and the Hilden are both ancient races...maybe the eldar god was one of an even older race that is trying to reclaim Nosgoth for itself by playing both sides... helping to banish the Hilden and exterminatie the vampires...it could have been the force behind Kains resurrection(using Kain to take out the Hilden) and the resurrection of Raz(using him in a similar fashion to take out the vamps...as for Moebius, maybe he is the human rep to the eldar god, trying to preserve humanity by selling his soul

Angel of Music
27th Aug 2002, 05:12
That kind of irony would make Kain giggle like a school girl.I like this idea, playing both sides against each other for the benefit of the third. Good Show!

Robertus_Aurelius
28th Aug 2002, 21:07
There was also something else about Kain that I was contemplating.....Notice how different he looks in Soul Reaver after a great amount of time..yet Janos and Vorador didn't change all that much..I have a theory on this one, I think the reason he looks so different is because he took the Hilden scientists blood into himself...thats why he looks a little like some of the Hilden creatures towards the end of the game.....this would also explain why Raz and his brothers mutated into those creatures......also another reason for this with Kain could be for the simple fact that he is the balance guardian...maybe in order to be that he would have to have parts of the three races: he was originally human, became vampire and took on hilden characteristics after the scientist incident...but who knows Eidos might have overlooked certain story elements and just wrote them off as nothing more than little snippets

Lady Kreliana
29th Aug 2002, 02:51
I think that the Elder might be trying to pit the vampires and the Hylden against each other for some uknown reason. Vampires and Hylden both seem to be immortal, so maybe the Elder sees them as obstructions to the wheel of fate and wants them to die, so their souls can return to it.

Rook
29th Aug 2002, 08:29
Originally posted by Robertus_Aurelius
Maybe the eldar god is the one pulling all the strings; considering the Vampires (Janos and Co) and the Hilden are both ancient races...maybe the eldar god was one of an even older race that is trying to reclaim Nosgoth for itself by playing both sides... helping to banish the Hilden and exterminatie the vampires...

I had thought about that possibility myself. It seems as viable as any other theory, and it does make a lot of sense. In fact, I had wondered, ever since I played Soul Reaver 2, if the trap Kain refers to at the end is one orchestrated by the Hylden or by the Elder and Moebius. Even though he does mention the Hylden, the "they" he is referring to almost seems as if it could be either...


Originally posted by Robertus_Aurelius
There was also something else about Kain that I was contemplating.....Notice how different he looks in Soul Reaver after a great amount of time..yet Janos and Vorador didn't change all that much..I have a theory on this one, I think the reason he looks so different is because he took the Hilden scientists blood into himself...thats why he looks a little like some of the Hilden creatures towards the end of the game.....

I had come to that conclusion as well. He does seem to take on some of the facial qualities of the Hylden. In fact, the Seer, whom I suspect (and I don't think I'm the only one:)) is a Vamp-Hylden, has a similar facial shape. I also had it in mind that his eventual greenish appearance might have been the outcome of consuming blood from the demons in BO2 who thrived on glyph energy, as well as the Hylden.

:eek: So Kain is becoming a Hylden, and Raz is becoming an Ancient Vamp! Weeeird! :rolleyes: :D

Power reaver
29th Aug 2002, 13:44
hmmmm....... interesting theories . But I have always believed Kain and Co got a little on the wierd side (Kains skin , and the bros got mutated) because there was no balance and the Pillars had crumbled . But Kains skin could possibly be due to the Seer incident but about Razes bros , well I stick to the "Pillar theory" for that .

The Lamb
29th Aug 2002, 19:59
Originally posted by Robertus_Aurelius
There was also something else about Kain that I was contemplating.....Notice how different he looks in Soul Reaver after a great amount of time..yet Janos and Vorador didn't change all that much..

Janos is a cursed vampire, so the presumption is that he doesn't change over time. Vorador in BO, BO2 and SR2 doesn't have enough time to change, he was already muchly evolved before BO, and we don't see him in the first Sarafan age. So Vorador did change quite a bit over time, we just don't see it.
I never noticed Kain changing anything other than his clothes in BO2, and even in SR1 he looks nothing like a Hylden.

Umah Bloodomen
29th Aug 2002, 20:31
Originally posted by The Lamb


Janos is a cursed vampire, so the presumption is that he doesn't change over time. Vorador in BO, BO2 and SR2 doesn't have enough time to change, he was already muchly evolved before BO, and we don't see him in the first Sarafan age. So Vorador did change quite a bit over time, we just don't see it.
I never noticed Kain changing anything other than his clothes in BO2, and even in SR1 he looks nothing like a Hylden.

It is highly likely that with the age of Janos, he probably has reached his limit of evolution. I believe that Vorador has reached the same. He was originally a prehistoric human according to Amy H. (Director of the series). Obviously there was a lot of change occurring in him.

I also don't understand what you are getting at with the "first Sarafan age". Do you mean during the time of Sarafan Raziel and his bretheren? If so, then yes we saw Vorador during this time, however not in SR2. We saw him (and he looked the same) during the opening FMV of Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain. (Which would be the time we heard him slaugthering the circle members at the end of SR2).

You need to remember that the SR series occurs after the Blood Omen series. (With the exception of the ending events of SR2 which occur 500 years before). The time we see Kain in BO2, he had evolved into a paler white complected vampire. It was clearly obvious that in SR1, Kain had undergone a significant physical change. (I still wouldn't compare him to a Hylden).

I will try to look up the thread where the maturity of a vampire was discussed...along with their reproduction habits and evolution factors.

The Lamb
30th Aug 2002, 19:56
Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
I also don't understand what you are getting at with the "first Sarafan age". Do you mean during the time of Sarafan Raziel and his bretheren? If so, then yes we saw Vorador during this time, however not in SR2. We saw him (and he looked the same) during the opening FMV of Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain. (Which would be the time we heard him slaugthering the circle members at the end of SR2).

I re-read my post and I didn't understand it either. ;)

Essentially though, we don't get to see Vorador through any length of time. From BO1 to BO2 only a relatively little while has passed, rather than the great spans that allowed Kain, Raziel and his brothers to evolve. So it could be that Vorador is still evolving, but the rate of change is reduced as time passes.

As to Kain changing between the BO games, I thought he was pale and white skinned in BO1 too?

Umah Bloodomen
30th Aug 2002, 21:58
He was...just more so in BO2....it is really amazing how modern technology can beef up an aging and kind of blah vampire eh?

(BTW...Love Kain's new six-pack) :p ;)


I think that Kain was just entering the phase of his vampiric evolution. I am not even sure if he would follow the same path of evolution as a "normal" vampire. (Remember, Kain is not a pureblood). I would assume he would undergo a physical change like a pureblood, but perhaps at a slower rate and not to the same extremities. (Physical deformations/skin pigments other than white or yellowish etc.).

Vampmaster
31st Aug 2002, 13:15
I think the first Sarafan age was when the original order still existed and the second was when the Sarafan lord decided to start it up again.