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View Full Version : SR2, playtime and dissapointment.



Justified_n_Ancient
5th Aug 2002, 13:43
:o Okay, I know, I know I am preaching to the choir, but, I have to make some comments.

I just finished the game, and it seems to me that it really wasn't that long or at least not as long as SR1. Also, I feel like there really wasn't a lot to do in SR2, or again, not as much as in SR1.

Did anyone else get that feeling. I mean I wanted to fight and have some grusome killing shots, but that really wasn't all that, either. Also, I felt as if the game didn't allow you to make as many choices as SR1 allowed you to make. SR2 seemed to almost make you follow one path and no other. <sighs>

Any thoughts on the playtime of the game? I miss the action and choice that I had in SR1.

Although, I will say that those who got to play the PS2 version were rewarded with a great number of stills and artist renditions, as well as music and some outtakes from the making of the game. That was a great bonus and worth the money I paid for the game. However, if anyone knows how to get those pics from the PS2 to my PC, I would love to download some of those for wallpaper and other things.

:confused:

Mordred
5th Aug 2002, 14:01
yes i thought the play time was very bad, and i also didn't like the the fact u are running backwards and forwards a long the same road.

also nothing to find, that was one thing i loved about BO, so many hidden stuff and spells u didn't have to find to finish the game but could if u wanted to, making the play time a hell of a lot bigger

Justified_n_Ancient
5th Aug 2002, 14:18
:o It was the same thing with SR1, you could get special glyphs that gave you great powers to defeat your enemies...you didn't have to use them to win the game, but you could collect them and the effects were great. As well as the warp gate allowed you to go to any point in Nosgoth, so that you actually could make real choices of where you wanted to go.

I am so dissapointed with SR2. Poor little Blue guy...he deserved better..

blincoln
5th Aug 2002, 15:45
Blood Omen and SR1 are longer because they use simpler game engines. It's easy to make a huge world when you can reuse the same graphics tiles over and over, for example.
Video game technology has advanced so far that it's impractical for most companies to release games now that take longer than 15-30 hours to finish. It just takes too long to put in the amount of detail that people expect.

keepittrue
5th Aug 2002, 20:53
I am not saying you are wrong blincoln but it seems to me that SR2 used a lot more repetitiveness then SR1 because you traveled the exact same areas over and over again.

Umah Bloodomen
5th Aug 2002, 23:01
Although the length of the game wasn't as indepth as others in the series, it was more than compensated for in the storyline and plot development.

The game was interesting, and involving, not just random running around solving cliche puzzles and whatnot.

I agree with what Blinc said. I mean come on, "beggers cannot be choosy". Games are becoming more like movies every day. A great majority like the sense of actually being in the movies. This is a story (worthy of a movie) that we have been fortunate enough to be directly involved in (as we play).

I for one, received exactly what I paid for and most certainly stand behind getting my money's worth.

If you wanted a FF type game, then you should've directed your attention to those types of games IMHO.

The repeating of levels within the game went with the Time Streaming angle that was created in the plotline. As for the "following one path" notion, how many paths did you honestly expect to follow? This was Raziel's destiny, his past and what led him to his future. Sure, lets skip Raz and focus on Malek for about 30 minutes and see if the Raziel/Soul Reaver storyline doesn't suffer. Last time I checked, this wasn't Legacy of Kain: Malek. :p

blincoln
6th Aug 2002, 01:13
keepittru: That's my point. SR1 *can* be longer because the graphics aren't as detailed, so they took less time to make. Compare the scenery in SR1 with that in SR2. Is it not as least 3 times as detailed? That's why it's about 1/2-1/3 of the length.

keepittrue
6th Aug 2002, 02:59
Originally posted by blincoln
keepittru: That's my point. SR1 *can* be longer because the graphics aren't as detailed, so they took less time to make. Compare the scenery in SR1 with that in SR2. Is it not as least 3 times as detailed? That's why it's about 1/2-1/3 of the length.

I agree, however (I may be alone on this but) I play games for enetertainment, I would much rather want gameplay along with story than just story. I would rather want a long game with exciting gameplay which I am going to play 3 years from now than just a game with a story witch after I beat it, the replay value sucks because I already know the story. Example, I played SR1 maaaaaaaaany months after I beat because of all the stuff on there and the fact I can travel anywhere at any given time. SR2 I played it enough to know the story and thats it, SR2 just missed a lot of key elelments for a TRUE GAME PLAYER. I did enjoy SR2 and I really enjoyed the graphics, however I choose gameplay over anything else any day.

FierceClaw
6th Aug 2002, 12:00
I don't think game devleopers should have to choose between making a good story or good gameplay. It's entirely possible to weave the two together, though only a few games have done it well. With the amount of talent at Crystal Dynamics, I'd imagine they would be able to do this successfully if they were given enough time. Deus Ex (my favorite game) has absolutely incredible gameplay along with a wonderful story that has many branches to accomodate different choices the player can make. Since Eidos published Deus Ex, they're obviously willing to allow a developer enough time to make a good game (Deus Ex took around 3 years), so I don't see why they wouldn't do the same for the Legacy of Kain series, especially since LoK games don't (and shouldn't) need to spend time working on different story branches.

The writing in Soul Reaver 2 is better than that of almost any book, movie, or game, but the gameplay and length were rather disappointing. At the very least, the next SR game should have a much deeper combat system. To win any battle in SR2, all I had to do was press the basic attack button 2 or 3 times, dodge once, and then repeat. Basically, the game was pretty boring whenever I wasn't watching one of the cinematic sequences. If the gameplay isn't good, it might as well be a movie since it isn't taking advantage of what makes video games a unique medium.

I love the LoK games, but only because of the story. Since Crystal Dynamics has been doing such great work for Eidos, they should be given enough time to make the gameplay of the next installment in the series as memorable as its story will likely be.

Justified_n_Ancient
6th Aug 2002, 14:00
Here, here.....this is exactly what I meant! I love the fact that the story is exactly that, a story and the graphics as well as the visual effects are so great, as to be cinemagraphic, in their nature. This is where the new games are going, I concur. I just feel that they need to have more game play and less repition. If the repition was simply because of the "timeline" story, then that's fine, but my feeling was more that it was a cop out or budget cut resolution. Since other games have been known to have both.

But what do I know...I am just an advid fan of the poor little blue guy.

All I was saying is that I missed some of the choices that you got in SR1, I certainly didn't mean to detract from all that you do get in SR2. It's a great story and a great game. I can't wait to paly the third installment. I just would like to have more choices of where to go and what to do, as in SR1. And maybe some more hidden items and stuff, as well as more of a challenge, to be the hunter instead of the hunted.

However, keep in mind, I'm just a novice at this. I admit it.:eek: ;)

warpsavant
6th Aug 2002, 20:26
I been playing SR2 since November and it's still fun to play.

Tell all the juniors who went back to the Stronghold before they went to the Fire Forge that there are no choices. LOL

blincoln
6th Aug 2002, 20:32
Even I went back to the Stronghold my first time through =).

warpsavant
6th Aug 2002, 20:38
HAHA Blincs was a junior!!


I followed the dot the whole time! LOL!

blincoln
6th Aug 2002, 22:18
I bet if you look really hard over at NR, you can find my "how come no one wants to talk about Turel anymore?" thread too =).

keepittrue
6th Aug 2002, 23:38
Yeah I play SR2 still but there is nothing new, nothing that excites me. When I play SR2 its not anywhere near as fun when I played SR1.

FangsFirst
7th Aug 2002, 01:18
Myself, I played Soul Reaver, then Blood Omen and just finished SR2 a few minutes ago.
I enjoyed SR2 a lot more than SR1 because 1 involved far too much back tracking and as was pointed out, not much interesting along the way. of course, the fact that I completely LOATHED the zephonim portion might be the primary reason.

playaphilosophy
7th Aug 2002, 02:54
Games made for PS2 arent as fun as PS1. The games playtime is very short, most games has 6 levels to beat with massive graphics. Other games, the creators makes you come back the old places and collect key items, for example, Dark Cloud, Zone of The Enders, and LOK: SR. Which take the fun out of everything. I think the creators developed these games just for the storyline and plot. Worst of all the programmers leaves out so much detailes when inputing codes which create bad graphics for the game. That sux! Publisher should hire more programmers so they can finished the game faster.

Binky
7th Aug 2002, 11:19
Hmm.
I don't know. I know I may be in the minority on this, and I myself have mixed feelings on this, but hmm, well,
I love starting SR2 just to look at things. The Sarafan Keep from the outside is a beauty.
And I love the story.
But well, the bits between the cutscenes seem always a bit too short. And I really don't like the demon barriers/barred-and-bolted doors; I prefer to choose whom to fight. And the spectral glyphs in places where you are supposed to shift into spectral? Took a lot of fun out of solving the puzzles.

I don't think I like games that are like movies too much. But hey, this is coming from someone who considers Planescape: Torment the best game ever made! Not too pretty, even in 1998, but the story and the characters were great, I think. (What can beat the story of an immortal amnesiac walking the paths of Hell in the company of a floating skull and chaste succubus (due to my limited imagination, Fall-from-Grace is what I imagine a female Razielim would look like) in search of the one that took his mortality away?) The only game in which I actually felt for the characters so much that I cried at the end - and LOL, really wanted to find a cheat for a happy end!
I hope the end of LoK will be powerful enough to make me feel what I felt then; if it does, I don't care for those stupid demon barriers.

Azazel005
7th Aug 2002, 12:02
I really didn't like Soul Reaver 2. Length was bad as mentioned and gameplay was alittle dry. To be painfully honest I thought plot was quite bad as well. I don't think difficulty is a good excuse unfortuneatly technology does move quickly and it does take time to get used to making something with such complicted engines, but stand out games will always find something, something that makes it work.

In the end many people liked Soul Reaver 2, and thats good it means they can make more, maybe better games. For those of us that didn't love it, we have to bear it and hope the next one is better.

darien_specter
7th Aug 2002, 18:15
I agree (again!) with Binky; the game is just beautiful. I've played all the way through I think five times now, sometimes just to look at it, and always to experience the story again, which I thought was fantastic; it really developed this thing into something more epic than just revenge. And those cinematics were gorgeous.

But I grew tired of the absurd linearity of it. The demon barriers were annoying enough; I was really sick of the barred doors in the Sarafan cathedral. It made it so difficult to get a clear picture of what the layout was, I've resorted to trying to make a nice detailed map. (Starting that today. :D) It wasn't so much the going back and forth as just being channeled around the Stronghold. Now, I know it can be justified by Moebius' manipulating Raziel - well, in two ages anyway... But it was still annoying. And, well, to clarify about those cinematics: yes, I loved the story element cinematics; but I found the little bits where it basically said "Here is what you do now so that you can quickly get to the next plot element without thinking" downright insulting. I'd like to think that I'd have figured out eventually to shift behind the Pillars, for instance. There were torches up there, after all... It might also be nice if my enemies couldn't block EVERYTHING, including a blade of scintillating energy. Or at least my blocking could have been equally effective...

Howsomever, I loved the game. It is still my favoirite thus far, both in appearance, story, and (excepting where the cinematics gave it away) the originality of puzzles. (Everyone who loved shoving Zephon's blocks around, raise your hand... that's what I thought.) Yes, it was short; but as I recall, every time they announced a delay in the release, a cacophony of *****ing went up from this forum. So what are they to think? They see complaints when the release is delayed, so the overriding concern becomes "get the game out NOW!" I am enjoying BO2 quite a bit, but the ridiculous story flaws thus far (as far as the entire unfolding history of Nosgoth) illustrate what happens when you let your story get into the hands of another production team. So SR2 leaves me hungrily wanting more, and eagerly awaiting SR3... :D:D

keepittrue
7th Aug 2002, 19:43
Another thing I missed was the dialogue in SR1. In SR1 they used words that I never heard of and had me confused which is good because not many games do that. In SR2 not one word had me confused.

FierceClaw
8th Aug 2002, 07:38
Originally posted by keepittrue
Another thing I missed was the dialogue in SR1. In SR1 they used words that I never heard of and had me confused which is good because not many games do that. In SR2 not one word had me confused.

You'd probably enjoy reading one of Dennis Miller's books :D . I've read all three and found them quite enjoyable.

Rook
8th Aug 2002, 09:34
Jeez, I might well be the only person here that absolutely loves Soul Reaver 2 for everything that it is. It's fantastic! And, while I can understand the disappointment of those people who have mentioned a lack of gameplay, or the redundancy of traversing the same areas, I can honestly say that those matters were no bother to me at all. I was far too enthralled by watching the story unfold (and that ending!!) to care that I might be missing out on even more running around and killing things. I still play it more than any of the other LoK games--probably more than any game I own. And it still thrills me.

:D And there is something to be said for using a cheat code to fly over the demon barriers, then shooting projectiles and laughing at them (stuck in their own trap!) from the other side. Heehee:D

darien_specter
8th Aug 2002, 09:44
Man, every day I get another reason to get a PS2... how cool would that be... Me too, Rook; when I get bored, I play SR2 again. Over and over...

Rook
8th Aug 2002, 09:50
See there?! It really does have replay value, and I'm not the only one that thinks so!!:D

:DLOL How's it goin', Darien?:D

Power reaver
8th Aug 2002, 10:13
GRRRRR Damn you Eidos , why did you not enable cheating in the PC ver of the game , Hmph the PC gets no respect I tell ya . :p

teasing those stupid demons , I would just love to do that .

As for me I play the game over and over again to see the cutscenes , perfect my fighting skills , watch the Sarafan get thrashed by the demons and to amaze at the power of the reaver .

There is no replay value for regular gamers (the ones who cant get enough of multiplayer in games like Quake 3 , JK2 etc and dont like doing the same things again and again and again) but for the diehard fan Iam sure that SR2 ranks at least a 7 out of 10 .

Justified_n_Ancient
8th Aug 2002, 12:14
:confused:
Ok, I have a PS2 and how come I don't know anything of any cheat codes. No Fair. Share the wealth!

:(

Binky
8th Aug 2002, 12:46
(I would love to see that map when it's finished, darien. I'm too lazy to draw one myself. Not to mention impaired in the graphics department.)

If my post gave any indication that I didn't love SR2, well, I apologise, and wish to clarify: I did. (Is there absolutely no way to fly over the barriers on a PC? That would take a lot of my pain away.)

Rook
9th Aug 2002, 09:28
Originally posted by Justified_n_Ancient
:confused:
Ok, I have a PS2 and how come I don't know anything of any cheat codes. No Fair. Share the wealth!

:(

You can get cheat codes for SR2 from the Gameshark 2 website. Of course, I'm sure you know it does help to have a Gameshark 2 to use them.;) Then ya can indulge yer wicked streak by jumping the gate in Willy's Chapel and pilfering the Soul Reaver (even if it only plays like any other ordinary super-sized butter knife), or jumping demon barriers and popping them demon creeps off from the other side...Or screwing up the game continuity by using the wrong elemental Reaver too early in the game, thus making it do a lovely lock up routine...:rolleyes: :o :D

Justified_n_Ancient
9th Aug 2002, 11:51
Thanks a million! I will have to look into purchasing a game shark, just for the fun!

Much obliged!

:D

darien_specter
9th Aug 2002, 21:36
I tried using an altered savegame (on PC) to start out with all the Reavers; then went into the swamp, my plan being to blast open the time-streaming chamber there a little early ;) and see if I could circumvent the entire future era. And then go into the Stronghold straight from there... Alas, when I went into that door, and got to the hallways that wrap around the chamber, halfway down, they ceased to exist, and I started falling, falling, falling... Now, I can see why the time-streaming chamber might not exist in that time. My question is: why put in as much of that area as they even did? Hmm....

Rook
10th Aug 2002, 04:31
Good question! Heh, I always wondered what would happen if you went into the swamp's time streaming chamber first. Heehee. Guess I know now... :D

darien_specter
10th Aug 2002, 07:07
Well Binky, if I can get it done before my Macromedia trials expire, I'll be launching my "Atlas of Nosgoth" website with just the cathedral for a start. I'll be posting a link, probably in the LoK common forum... again: IF I can get done in time... :D

ladyaztlan19
15th Aug 2002, 05:02
Hello,

I loved both games...SR2 and SR1 well i'm still playing SR2, but maybe i'll change my mind afterwards cause i find this game tricky and tiresom at sometimes...anyways though what I like about SR2 is the graphics, it's really beautiful...the blood splatters and the monsters...I also really like the whole parts where you can sit and watch the plot unfold...like a movie...it makes it fun to play cause I'm just waiting to see when another scene will pop up.
SR1 though was also a great game...but i managed to somehow figure that one out much faster then this one....but it was great though...sometimes i play it again from time to time.

I also found out by looking over the post that I'm suppose to get the fire forge before going to the stronghold....oops...lol....well glad I found that out.


Bye,
Ladyaztlan19:rolleyes:

Rook
15th Aug 2002, 05:50
Originally posted by ladyaztlan19

I also really like the whole parts where you can sit and watch the plot unfold...like a movie...it makes it fun to play cause I'm just waiting to see when another scene will pop up.


One of the major gripes about SR2 in quite a few reviews was that there were too many cutscenes and not enough gameplay. And, while I agree that it was a bit short on gameplay, I, like you, really did enjoy watching the plot run its course. It was almost like watching a movie. A pretty freakin good movie, too!! :cool:

:D

Power reaver
15th Aug 2002, 06:34
Yup I loved watching the cutscenes , they are the best part of the game .

But I would like a lot more gameplay in SR3 , and I think (and I have been bragging this for a long time) that the "rush" feeling would really kick a lot of excitement into LOK : SR3 . I mean imagine a blue ghost with a cool hairstyle jumping from ledge to ledge as the ground splits in 2 during a massive earth um....nosgothquake ! This like that would really boost the gameplay , an eg of this is the fire forge which I enjoyed far more than any other forge . Sure it was only 1 room but with the blood level rising it was really fun .