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The Amazing Rando
29th Jul 2002, 22:12
I am an EGM subscriber and I was looking at afterthoughts on Eternal Darkness. This game was made by Silicon Knights, who made the first Blood Omen. One of the inserts off the Dennis Dyack interview is about one of the endings.




THE REALLY, REALLY, REALLY BAD ENDING

If you were low on sanity at the end of Karim's chapter, the message at the right might've made you throw down your controller in disgust (or at least, start the upswing). "We think [that's] a big fear," Dyack tells us. "A game gets going and you think 'hey, this is pretty cool' and then it says 'To be continued...' We think that's a bad thing to do to players. It's our job to satisfy gamers, and when people buy a game, they want to get their money's worth. So doing something like that...the expression I like to use is pull people's pants down just for a second and then say, 'oh, don't worry- we won't do that to you.'" Take that, Soul Reaver.

The pic to the side is "To be continued" with a couple other comments to it. Sounds like their's still some tension here.

Azuriel
29th Jul 2002, 22:41
i haven`t played that game. can you tell me more about it?

blincoln
29th Jul 2002, 22:53
While I really like the world he created in BO1, Dyack's continuing jabs at CrystalD are really childish and alienating. If I buy ED at all (which is getting less and less likely), it's going to be used, because I don't want to support that kind of behaviour.

L_Master562
30th Jul 2002, 00:25
those rude comments to CD are childish and unintelligent. Its not something that would go well with many if anyone at all and especially not us here. I saw previews for ED and I didn't really care about buying it. I might have eventualy because I have heard a couple good things about it, but after that remark I sure won't. Used is a different story. Used is a good way to buy if there is a guarantee on the game. I could go around 3 days after a new hit game comes out and buy the used version for 10 bucks compared to 50-60 and it has absolutely no scratches making my job finding those hit games so much easier. I think that I would at most play ED at a friends now. I wouldn't pay anything to do so though after the remark. I think that I am to critical over the LoK series, but if you diss any part of it I get filled with rage towards the one saying it. And when hasn't Dyack not taken a jab at CD and Sr though? Never, right?

willow
30th Jul 2002, 02:03
Me thinkis he should growith upith someith.

KainSyndrome101
30th Jul 2002, 02:10
Man, the guy practically dissed his own series! Without him, Soul Reaver would've never been created.

warpsavant
30th Jul 2002, 03:41
who cares this is old news.


Raziel would kick Kains butt anyway. Its fate. Kains soul belongs in the Reaver with Ariel. LOL


Now lets move on and try to find out inside scoop on Sr3....

blincoln
30th Jul 2002, 04:44
Hahah, Warp said it best.

Azazel005
30th Jul 2002, 12:59
He's right, I hated that ending, while I enjoyed Soul Reaver I didnt think it was all that clever to finish like a cheap TV series.

I know things got cut and things needed changing but the ending still sucked, and I think if anyone has the right to crtiscise its dennis dyack. If you wrote a book and somebody wrote the sequel that you hated you would bash it, BASH AWAY DENNIS.

I don't agree with everything said but hey free speech.

Esoteric
30th Jul 2002, 15:29
While I can understand some personal animosity, this is game developer land, not a high school playground.

As for Mr. Dyack's comments, I would like to say that he seems to keep them underhanded and indirect, though after reading a number of his comments from various places, the uhhh... tension toward CD is clear. I don't think love and positivity is expected, but perhaps it could be handled with a little more finesse. And I don't mean Dyack only, I mean the writers of these magazines as well. Take that Soul reaver...? Err... ok.

Just a thought of mine, while BO1 was a good game, the above-mentioned Soul Reaver series brought in alot of fans. Fans like me for example. I had not even heard of BO1 until I played Soul Reaver 1. I am glad in a way, I don't know if playing Blood Omen 1 would have been sufficient to make me the obsessed and devoted fan I am. I have played BO1 and I am pleased with the way CD has handled the Series. (SR2 is my favorite game by far.) But I wouldn't have ever played BO1 if I handn't played SR1 and been captivated by it. :D

blincoln
30th Jul 2002, 15:30
So Ridley Scott should go around bashing Aliens and Alien3? Harve Bennett should bash Star Trek VI?
If CrystalD - like SK - had waited what, six or seven years between releasing games, SR wouldn't have ended with a "To be continued." I'm glad we've gotten three LoK games in the timespan it's taken for SK to put out just one.

Lady Kreliana
30th Jul 2002, 16:00
I'd say he's jealous. CD owns LoK and SK doesn't. I think he's jealous.

As for ED, I was going to buy it, but I don't want to buy games from people who act like they're still in high school.

Take that, Silicon Knights.

darien_specter
30th Jul 2002, 16:55
Excellent point blinc... (and how many other people knew who he was talking about? ;) )

I, also, never knew anything of BO1 until I played SR, and then proceeded to go looking across the web for the back story (which led me, thankfully, to Nosgoth.net). And it really was Soul Reaver that captivated my interest in a way that BO1 wouldn't have... partly because, before SR2 came out, I pretty much thought Kain was a friggin bastard, and had no desire to play as him whatever... (Rest assured, that attitude has changed somewhat, as I wait for BO2 - how long can it take to ship from Canada?)

And I already wasn't going to get Eternal Darkness, because it's one of those damnable exclusive license Gamecube things, and I'm just sick of it... (yes I know SR2 was PS2, but it also had a PC version out within what, a month? And I had that within a week... :D)

Azazel005
31st Jul 2002, 11:09
If Ridley Scott wants to bash those films, he should, thats his decision regardless of anyones opinions of the sequels. I can't see Ridley Scott doing that but if he wanted to? While I dont think the analogy is really the same thing. Im not at all sure on the Star Trek reference, so I wont comment.

While Ridley Scott would I'm sure have had a very strong connection to the characters he directed, I dont think he was as actively involved as Dennis Dyack was in the creation of Nosgoth. A lot of that credit goes to the actors and scriptwriters in that regard. Thats my opinion anways.

The ending still sucked, it was a cop out, they couldn't finish the game they wanted so the chopped and shifted to get the job done. I respect that SK took there time made the game they wanted to, irregardless of how technically dated that meant the release was. I dont care if that means less commercial success or a less widespread appeal, I was happy when I finished Blood Omen, I was upset at the end of both the Soul Reavers. Dennis can make childish snaps all he likes, It doesn't change things. Soul Reaver is the sequel for goo or bad and I accept that but I still like to make the occaisonal jab. Crystal D has wide shoulders and are proud of there work so they can take it.

KainSyndrome101
11th Jul 2003, 10:00
Oh... I thought Dyack was the one that said "Take that Soul Reaver." But now that I look at just what he said, it doesn't look like he's doing much harm. And even if he did let loose with a crapload of criticism, I would'nt care much. If he didn't like the way it came out, I'd say he has a right too. I mean like, Kain was his creation in the first place, so... It doesn't seem like he's totally unhappy with how the series has turned out. I, for one, am extremely gratified that I got to experience these masterpieces.

Matt from Spam Buddies
11th Jul 2003, 11:10
Uh-oh...

I smell some sour grapes here, dear Mr. Dyack... ;)

Hey, it's ancient history, the thing that happened between CD and SK. CD have been doing a wonderful job, so sush!
Maybe in the next decade we'll get another GC game from You... :rolleyes:

- Matthew

blincoln
11th Jul 2003, 17:09
If you actually play ED, the way the message is presented is pretty different than in SR. It's an ad for a supposed next game in the series, really, and it happens like 1/5th of the way through the game.

warpsavant
12th Jul 2003, 20:01
When I said this was old news I wasnt kidding. And now its a year later. You know what that means? You all know where Im going with this right?

Should have left this thread in the Abyss....I feel like a loser Ive been posting in this thread for years, Im outta here. :p;)

The Amazing Rando
12th Jul 2003, 20:55
Actually warp, it's got a couple weeks before it's a year. I don't see why anyone dug it up at this point either. Maybe I should just delete it for good.

babifrence
22nd Nov 2003, 03:50
Hiya Peeps,

I tend to agree with Esoteric and darien_specter. I didnt know of a BO1 until I played SR1. I then obtained each game starting with SR1, then BO2, BO1, and SR2. Now I am anxiously awaiting Defiance. Only problem is that it comes out in April 2004 (PC) :(.

KainSyndrome101 has actually seen the most accurate meaning from that post at the very beginning. Dont mean to bash people but in case we all used our eyes, the stuff highlighted with the apostrophies (" ") are the things Dennis said. He didnt say much to be honest, in fact he was only criticising the fact that when you buy a game - you want satisfaction for your money's worth, and hence, want a decent ending.

As he said, which I do agree with to some extent. If you buy a game, you want to see a decent ending after all those hours of game play. A "to be continued" message makes the game unfair and this is how companies make money or completely flop based on the quality of their product. They encourage you to buy a game that you might enjoy but rip the ending out. This leads to the creation of a few more games.

I do see his point though and as stated earlier - Kain was his creation so technically if he wants to criticise them thats fair enough really. However, did he really say anything bad ? NOP SERRIE !!! He was just implying that you need a decent ending to a game and not a cheap ploy to make you buy the next game in the series.

I remember when Shenmue came out for the dreamcast. My mate "Bright" completed the game, and was really annoyed to discover that he would have to buy the sequel to understand the full story. It is kinda cheap, but with good games, you will want to buy the next game. Companies usually do create better games (sequel wise) and in Crystal D's case, they are continously bettering their games and I will keep buying as long as they keep making.

I really do hope they make a book of the entire LoK series so that we can truely understand and appreciate Kain's legacy. There are soo many twists and turns that I am still confused about. I am finding some answers on the forum, but sometimes they are just opinions so they can still be inaccurate or just blatently wrong.

Just a thought ...


PEACE OUT !!!


PS Note that the person who wrote the article meant to make Dennis Dyack sound like an obsessed man with a vengeance for something that has long since been dead and buried. This is not the case !!! Dennis Dyack only made one statement (the fans deserved a decent ending).

Kain@Nosgoth
22nd Nov 2003, 04:11
Right, he never said "Take that, Soul Reaver" I'm sure that was the subtle implication, but if anyone has a right to justly criticize the Legacy of Kain series, it's Denis Dyack. I don't know all the details about the legal battle between SK and CD, but Amy Hennig and the rest of CD have done an outstanding job in keeping Nosgoth alive in all its glory.