PDA

View Full Version : Vampires on SR1 title screen.



KainSyndrome101
29th Jul 2002, 20:04
Remember the vampires on the menu screen of SR1, the hooded people? Well, I've been looking at that for years now, and I still can't figure out who or exactly what they are.

There are 8, and one of them looks like Raziel, in prefallen form.

I don't know if the screen has any real significance, but it looks very intriguing. Does anybody have an idea?

Serul
29th Jul 2002, 20:22
Originally posted by KainSyndrome101
...Well, I've been looking at that for years now, and I still can't figure out who or exactly what they are.

You're not the only one. ;)

A while ago (on the old forum) I asked about this, and nobody really knew who they were, not even Chris. :eek: (I could be wrong about that :) )

But come to think of it they could represent the ancients, in their "normal" form, turned to vampires by the Curse. But then again at the moment from making SR 1 the whole ancients thing might not have been part of the story.

blincoln
29th Jul 2002, 21:31
The ancients weren't part of the story back then =). I think they're just sketches of vampires, because it's a vampirey game.

Azuriel
29th Jul 2002, 21:40
Originally posted by blincoln
The ancients weren't part of the story back then =). I think they're just sketches of vampires, because it's a vampirey game.

my thoughts exactly

darien_specter
30th Jul 2002, 04:54
Ditto

warpsavant
30th Jul 2002, 05:32
One of them guys reminds me of Moebius.

Lady Kreliana
30th Jul 2002, 15:45
Originally posted by blincoln
The ancients weren't part of the story back then =). I think they're just sketches of vampires, because it's a vampirey game.

Agreed. :)

KainSyndrome101
30th Jul 2002, 16:07
That's probably right. It could have some significance in later games though...possibly.

L_Master562
30th Jul 2002, 17:51
It just makes sence that way. Did someone say Chris didn't know what this stuff was? That would be suprising if true.

Azrael
31st Jul 2002, 02:35
:rolleyes: Well one of them im almost sure that is Raz...
Don't belive me?
Then just look to my sig =F

darien_specter
31st Jul 2002, 04:59
Hmmm.... okay, don't believe you. :p Raziel's hair has always been straight, parted in the middle... never curly like that...

I bet they're Crystal D personalities... :D

Azrael
31st Jul 2002, 05:18
**borrows Umah's whip**
**stares at darien**
Ah, you don't belive me? Let's see now...
**prepares to strike darien**
Are you sure you don't belive me?


:p

darien_specter
31st Jul 2002, 07:01
HA! Your puny whip frightens me not, for I am gifted with the Sarafan ability to eternally block any form of attack, including a blade of pure energy! Bring it on! :p

Rook
31st Jul 2002, 07:58
I'm also gonna have to go with Blinc on this one, though I'm sure there is something to the fact that one of them is different from the others...and seems to have wings...

**ducks from the whip then flies away**

:D

Azrael
31st Jul 2002, 14:23
Posted by darien_specter:
HA! Your puny whip frightens me not, for I am gifted with the Sarafan ability to eternally block any form of attack, including a blade of pure energy! Bring it on! :p

Heheheh..ermm...but don't forget this isn't any ordinary whip...its Umah's Whip :D
You're damned little one....
**lashes darien**
:p



Posted by Rook:
I'm also gonna have to go with Blinc on this one, though I'm sure there is something to the fact that one of them is different from the others...and seems to have wings...

**ducks from the whip then flies away**


Aww, you too Rook?
I agree with Blinc too, but the ones who don't agree with me, will be punished... :D
**prepares to lash Rook**

Power reaver
31st Jul 2002, 15:09
I think its all just for a creepy look of the game (My sis got scared like hell when 1 of those guys turned with their Vamp face) .

**Looks at Azrael and Darien**

wow another forum fight

**grabs camara and popcorn**

Anyone wants to join me ?

darien_specter
31st Jul 2002, 16:17
**dink** **dink dink** I laugh, unaffected. :p

Who you calling 'little one'? I've been here a looooong time... :D

Chris@Crystal
31st Jul 2002, 21:47
Hey all,
I asked the Lead Artist, Daniel Cabuco, about this and here is what he had to say:

If you look carefully, each one is a representation of the Clan Brothers, with Kain in the middle. One morphs and his lower jaw is darkened, and he represents Raziel. The middle guy represents Kain, and the others I think are (starting from Raz clockwize) Melchiah, Zephon, Turel, Dumah, and Rahab. They were an abstract representation of the dark path the once Sarafan Brothers walk, and their descent into vampirism. So the faces are not literally them, just symbols of their fallen nature. Hence the reason they look so sad. ;)

So there you have it!
~Christopher
Crystal Dynamics

Raz
31st Jul 2002, 21:51
That's cool...

I actually thought along the same lines as blincoln and figured that, as it was a vampire based game, it was just a bunch of random vampires, one of them possibly being Raziel. :)

blincoln
31st Jul 2002, 23:29
Wow, thanks Chris!

Azrael
1st Aug 2002, 00:07
Ha!!! I said that one was Raz :p

**looks at darien**
Hmm, you're a bit more resistent than i expected...but not too long, so play on little one, play on...

**looks at PR**
Wanna see action?
So i'll help you
**lashes PR butt**
:p

**turns again to darien**
Lets continue... shall we?
**prepares to attack**

darien_specter
1st Aug 2002, 01:19
**darien smashes Azrael with his handy Sarafan spear** Haha, who's little now?

**Chris picks up dropped weapon** Uh oh...

**SMASH**

In all seriousness, that is too damn cool for words. What a neat artistic concept... :D

Rook
1st Aug 2002, 06:11
Originally posted by Azrael
Aww, you too Rook?
I agree with Blinc too, but the ones who don't agree with me, will be punished... :D
**prepares to lash Rook**


**remains airborne, swiftly dodging Azrael's whip**

Hey, wait a minute! I thought we were on the same side, dude! :eek:

:D

Azrael
1st Aug 2002, 15:00
Arghhhh, you hit me...
hahah, you can't kill me! Im the Angel of Death, or if you prefer IAM DEATH itself :D :p
But ouch that hurted...
**gives whip back to Umah**
**draws his favorite sword...The Fire Sword**
Ha lets play litt..uh..normal one... =)

PS- Thanks chris :D




Posted by Rook:
**remains airborne, swiftly dodging Azrael's whip**

Hey, wait a minute! I thought we were on the same side, dude!


Ooops, we are... **blushes**
Sorry.. :(
**bows at Rooks feet**
Forgive me, forgive me.. :)

keepittrue
5th Aug 2002, 07:49
Originally posted by blincoln
The ancients weren't part of the story back then =). I think they're just sketches of vampires, because it's a vampirey game.


Me think so too.

DMK_Uriel
7th Aug 2002, 22:37
hey azrael,with strange aeons even death may die....

KainSyndrome101
8th Aug 2002, 04:51
If you look carefully, each one is a representation of the Clan Brothers, with Kain in the middle. One morphs and his lower jaw is darkened, and he represents Raziel. The middle guy represents Kain, and the others I think are (starting from Raz clockwize) Melchiah, Zephon, Turel, Dumah, and Rahab. They were an abstract representation of the dark path the once Sarafan Brothers walk, and their descent into vampirism. So the faces are not literally them, just symbols of their fallen nature. Hence the reason they look so sad.

A good explanation, but out of Kain, Raziel, Turel, Dumah, Rahab, Zephon, and Melchiah, they only make up seven, and there are eight in the picture. Who's the eighth one?

warpsavant
8th Aug 2002, 05:07
That one's Lord Butterfly!

Few know the truth. he had a dark side, once.

Umah Bloodomen
8th Aug 2002, 05:17
Originally posted by warpsavant
That one's Lord Butterfly!

Few know the truth. he had a dark side, once.

He still does, what are you talking about? :p

The Butterfly Lord has a severe Jedi/Sith complex that he can't escape from. (I know, I saw the pictures) ;) :p

**buys another round of ale for the Butterfly Lord, warp and the rest of the forum and enjoys basking in the truths she knows***

darien_specter
8th Aug 2002, 05:19
**gulp** Ah, ale... my thanks... :D

Apocrypha Roxy
1st Jun 2003, 00:44
-sip-

Mmm... tangy.... :D


Actually, that's quite interesting. I always was curious about those figures. There's one that reminds me somewhat of the Mission Briefing drawings of Garrett (if you've played Thief 2: The Metal Age, the mission where you're on the streets outside the Crippled Burrick, the briefing somewhat shows his face). I believe Raziel's figure is the one I'm thinking of. That was my favorite. Smooth jawline - no mistaking it.

That's very cool. I'm going to have to just load up SR1 and look at the menu. :D


EDIT: Raz isn't the one I'm thinking of. He's on the left side, below Kain. I can't recall who it's supposed to represent...

KoolKat_EF
1st Jun 2003, 17:00
Whey hey! I got it right. In the poll I voted for the vampire lieutenants. :D

Haven't seen the SR1 title screen for ages. I let Mafia borrow my game and I don't think he's getting the hang of it, though he does find spearing Dumahim very funny.

hippiechk
2nd Jun 2003, 17:50
Yeah, me too. Imagine that.
But I still want to know who the eigth one really is.

eclipse_reaver
20th Jun 2003, 05:52
Ariel.

Umah Bloodomen
25th Jun 2003, 02:07
Originally posted by eclipse_reaver
Ariel.

Interesting notion. Would you mind enlightening the masses as to what brought you to this conclusion?

Razielim Angel
25th Jun 2003, 04:09
I'm curious, who or what is that "Lord Butterfly" you guys were talking about? I'm new around here so I don't really know about that :( Could you enlighten me on the subject?

Umah Bloodomen
25th Jun 2003, 04:22
Originally posted by Razielim Angel
I'm curious, who or what is that "Lord Butterfly" you guys were talking about? I'm new around here so I don't really know about that :( Could you enlighten me on the subject?

I'm not totally familiar with the entire story, but I'll give it a shot, based on what I know. :)

An unknown mural was discovered on a wall near the fire forge in SR1. After some inquiring about it by some of the members here, it was dubbed "The Butterfly Lord" mural, which was actually named "Chris", in honor of Lead Tester, Chris Bruno (aka Chris@Crystal). I am sure other members can add to/correct this when they have time.

EDIT: Here's an edited shot of the mural. I had to remove the background for my website.

http://umahbloodomen.members.easyspace.com/butterflylord.jpg

darien_specter
25th Jun 2003, 04:55
Actually, I believe that it is the mural of a figure that is depicted behind the bonfire in the Fire Glyph area, that is the source of the... well, fire. This same image can also be seen in the Dark Forge of SR2, high up near the ceiling of the entry hallway (I believe). Don't have the time to get a screenshot now, but maybe later...

Anubis_Orr
25th Jun 2003, 05:08
Actually you're partially right darien. It's in the Fire Glyph area but it's located on the pillars seen upon surfacing from underwater. You can't immediately see it because it's on the opposite side. (Get out of water and go around the pillar).

Apocrypha Roxy
25th Jun 2003, 14:28
Strange how I never found the glyph forges is SR1...

Man, I miss out on everything! :mad: :p

Anubis_Orr
25th Jun 2003, 20:05
Meh, they're superfluous to the game/story. I only get them for the sake of getting them. I think I've only used each once just to see what it does :D

warpsavant
25th Jun 2003, 20:51
In the Fire Glyph Shrine, behind the fire where you throw the unlit torch is a picture of a figure with runes beneath it.

In the dark forge is the same figure, he appears in several areas, near the roof.

Thats the Butterfly Lord.

That other mural does appear in the Fire Glyph shrine on the pillars like Anubis said tho. Lmaster, looking for the Butterfly Lord, took a screen of that and put it on his webapage and mistakinly said it was the Butterfly Lord. Alot of people get confused, I think maybe we should just call them both Butterfly Lord. One's just a younger version.

darien_specter
26th Jun 2003, 01:11
Warp succeeded in what I was trying to say. I know that's the picture on the pillars, I was pointing out that (as far as I know) the 'Butterfly Lord' refers to the other one... :) Don't want to look like a schmuck, after all! :p

Razielim Angel
26th Jun 2003, 03:18
I'm pretty sure I remember seeing that, but I'm gonna go on Soul Reaver and check it out now that I know where to look. I appreciate the help. Thanks everyone! :)

The Amazing Rando
26th Jun 2003, 06:07
I think I know who the other person is. It's Vorador, or should I say the Elder God in his (or one of his) puppet bodies. :D This could be why he survived execution and is in BO2. Moe could easily be in on it, as he works for the Elder. It would also support the V-as-a-traitor theory. A spy on the inside. :D

Edit:Plus, we don't know much about V before he was turned. He could've been a Sarafan, which would give them even more reason to hate Janos, as well as provide some of the motivation for blaming him. Janos took him on one of his raids into town when the Sarafan tried to stop him.

eclipse_reaver
26th Jun 2003, 06:18
Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
Interesting notion. Would you mind enlightening the masses as to what brought you to this conclusion?

1. I remember when looking at the screen and seeing the faces changed, that face was half dark/ half visible. I already knew the one figure praying on the right side was Raz (when you see the face changes you just know it :D ) and the center figure was Kain, so I deducted that they must be the characters from the game.

2. If you look back when the game first came out, it wasn't supposed to have a sequel right? The main actors were Kain and the brothers, but you also met Ariel along the way. On the other hand, while Moebius was mentioned he wasn't really in the game. He was at the end of it, but that's because the game couldn't be finished on time. So the screen shows everyone who you play and meet in the game. Ariel was supposed to be an important character too, but it never got to that point..

The Amazing Rando
26th Jun 2003, 06:23
I have to give you this, that's pretty sound reasoning. Are you part Vulcan, by any chance? :p

eclipse_reaver
26th Jun 2003, 06:26
Nah, just a nutcase :D
I'm psychic too though..

Umah Bloodomen
26th Jun 2003, 06:36
Originally posted by eclipse_reaver
1. I remember when looking at the screen and seeing the faces changed, that face was half dark/ half visible. I already knew the one figure praying on the right side was Raz (when you see the face changes you just know it :D ) and the center figure was Kain, so I deducted that they must be the characters from the game.

2. If you look back when the game first came out, it wasn't supposed to have a sequel right? The main actors were Kain and the brothers, but you also met Ariel along the way. On the other hand, while Moebius was mentioned he wasn't really in the game. He was at the end of it, but that's because the game couldn't be finished on time. So the screen shows everyone who you play and meet in the game. Ariel was supposed to be an important character too, but it never got to that point..

I do agree with your first sentiments, and would like to add, that, that particular figure appears very feminine IMO.

I think I'd actually like to put forth though, the possibility of the figure actually being The Priestess as opposed to Ariel. Despite being cut from the game, The Priestess was originally a boss, whom Raziel would've encountered in the Human Citadel. (Turel was also another boss ultimately cut from the game). It would stand to reason, symbolically displaying the seven bosses you would've encountered on your journey. :)

The Amazing Rando
26th Jun 2003, 06:44
Good point also, I'm gonna have to go look a tthe pic again to make my own conclusions (haven't yet). If Eclipse is right about the whole light-dark thing, I think I would have to agree with ariel tho, but there is an argument ot be made for the Priestess, too. I don't recall anyone here saying Morlock-he was a boss too you know.:)

Umah Bloodomen
26th Jun 2003, 06:49
Good eye, Rando. Damn mistake. :p I've got an image of the intro screen. Give me a few to host and post. :)

Ariel was a bit too insignificant to the events of SR1 to be included, IMO. (A couple of the faces are shaded as well, so I think it was an effect). Also, Morlock was actually what Turel became. I stick with the symbolism of those closest to Kain.

The first one, where the figure in-question's face is quite visible. (http://umahbloodomen.members.easyspace.com/intro1.jpg)

The second, where it's half-shaded. (http://umahbloodomen.members.easyspace.com/intro2.jpg)

EDIT: Fixed the second link.

The Amazing Rando
26th Jun 2003, 07:01
Yeah, I was pretty much joking bout Morlock. To counter your Ariel wasn't really important, if we are using what the original story was (Priestess was included) then Ariel's role was much greater, as she sacrificed herself to give Raz the power to finish Kain. It undid her being binded to the Pillars, thus writing her out of the story in a blaze of glory, and it was those actions that would have let Raz restore the world.

Edit: Thanks for the pics, I'm not sure if I could've checked. My PS2 is hitting the infamous 'disc read error' and it's pretty bad. Damn Sony screwing the loyal people who got the early models.:mad:

Umah Bloodomen
26th Jun 2003, 07:11
Originally posted by The Amazing Rando
Yeah, I was pretty much joking bout Morlock. To counter your Ariel wasn't really important, if we are using what the original story was (Priestess was included) then Ariel's role was much greater, as she sacrificed herself to give Raz the power to finish Kain. It undid her being binded to the Pillars, thus writing her out of the story in a blaze of glory, and it was those actions that would have let Raz restore the world.


Yeah, but Ariel's still anti-Kain, wheras the menu suggests Kain's empire (pro-Kain). Vampiric Raziel wouldn't count as being anti-Kain either, we all know that occurred post-abyss.

You're welcome, BTW. Thank Anubis_Orr as well. ;)

The Amazing Rando
26th Jun 2003, 07:23
Very true that the rest are pro-Kain, but it could just represent the people closest to the center of Kain's empire. While I'm sure they didn't get along, don't forget that Kain deliberately set up his throne right where she was. He may have done this to try and turn her, in an effort to gain info or whatever. We also don't know how against Kain she was in the beginning. In BO1, she did try to "help" him get out of the curse. It could be possible that she was still trying to get him to restore balance or something, and only truly showed resentment for him afteryears of his tormenting her, probably due to his anger at being played like a pawn. I'm sure he made it a "living" hell for her while he set up his thone where she was and held meetings, which I bet is where they decided to set up the smokestacks,etc, which did not help restore the balnce, preserve Nosgoth, or help her escape, flaunting it to her that he was now in charge and not listening to her.

Anubis_Orr
26th Jun 2003, 07:28
I wouldn't use the term "help" in connection with Ariel and Kain. She used him to murder the corrupted Circle and then she intended for him too to die, and I might add that she had already been bound to the Pillars for 30 years. She wanted to be free and did anything to forward that goal.

As for Kain setting up his empire on the remnants of the Pillars... despite their decay they still are a powerful artifact and Kain as the Balance Guardian would feel a deep connection to them.

The Amazing Rando
26th Jun 2003, 07:39
That was why I put help in quotes. :p And while they are still powerful enough for him to feel a connection, I'd bet Kain had other motives for choosing that spot, it's just Kain's style. Should it still be standing, he could've chosen the former Sarafan stronghold, where not only Raz and company would most likely feel right at home (tho Kain may or may not have redecorated first) but would've been close enough to the Pillars, as that's where the other guardians set up shop. The only reason I can think of against this is that he now needed to be closer due to the Pillars being weakened.

I think Kain would not just go with the flow and be there because they say he should, he would fight it. Besides, if he can travel to the other parts of Nosgoth (as he must've occasionally to talk to the bretheren, even after they started devolving, plus the chronoplast) that means he can resist the draw for some distance and time, he wasn't just trapped there. He could've set his throne someplace else and only gone back when needed (if at all), which says to me that he wanted it there. Most likely to get revenge against Ariel for trying to use him IMO, being there and torturing her with every bit of knowledge and power he gained.

Edit: Wow, a real discussion. Seems like it's been awhile to me, especially for the oldest of the Eidos SR games.

Umah Bloodomen
26th Jun 2003, 08:12
I'm still not buying it's Ariel.

The Amazing Rando
26th Jun 2003, 08:28
That's fine, you don't have to. It's not like it matters much, until they end Defiance with the big spoiler that it *was* Ariel on the title screen to Sr1. hahahah. :p

Really, one of the biggest reasons I don't think it's the Priestess is the fact that Chris siad that they were the Sarafan (and their descent into vampirism), but I think that Ariel has more connection with the Sarafan than the Priestess. Ariel *did* work with Malek, and it was the Circle that started the Sarafan, tho Ariel didn't really descend into vampirism, she was iindirectly a factor into Kain becoming one (and yes, I know that's a stretch, but I got nothing to connect her and becoming a vampire), whereas the Priestess does have a connection with being a vamp, as she seemed to want to be one, and gained the possess ability, but had nothing to do with the Sarafan.

Anubis_Orr
26th Jun 2003, 08:41
Except for the fact that she worshipped the resurrected Sarafan Lieutenants :p

Azazel
26th Jun 2003, 12:22
Wasn't he added later to give Raziel the ability of telekinesis?
If you listen to the conversation between Raziel and Morlock, and listen to that between Raziel and Turel, you'll hear a lot of similarities.
I also believe Turel was to be called Morlock when the game was being made.

Umah Bloodomen
26th Jun 2003, 19:36
Yes. Here's that info, compliments of Blincoln. (http://www.thelostworlds.net/SR1-Turel.HTML)

It's clear that some things changed during development. Somehow I don't think the menu was only on account that it's not very vital to the plot of the game, and just looks cool. :p

Umah Bloodomen
2nd Aug 2003, 05:10
As I posted over at NR. I have inquired with Chris about this issue and he has not gotten back to me. He does have a busy schedule and we can be patient.