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View Full Version : Why does everyone like Janos so much?



Farfaniccio
26th Jul 2002, 01:36
This contains a spoiler so you are warned.





Ok, so at the end of BO2 Janos jumps in to attack the hylden 'Sarafan Lord' and proceeds to get his butt kicked faster than a woman who gets cross with Mike Tyson. I mean what a wimp! He also got it handed to him by Raziel when his heart got torn out. Granted that these two were tough characters but he didnt even put up a fight. Ok, well I have given my two pennies about janos.

Lady Kreliana
26th Jul 2002, 01:41
One reason why I like Janos' character is because he's sort of a 'breath of fresh air' so to speak. In a nutshell, what I mean by this is, not as many characters are as selfless as Janos is (or at least appears to be). He was always more than willing to help Raziel with no (apparant) strings attached. Most LoK characters are out for their own good, but Janos seems to be out for a greater good. That's why I like his character. :)

Umah Bloodomen
26th Jul 2002, 02:02
Although I like Janos Audron, he isn't necessarily my "favorite" character of the series.

As for the BO2 reference to Janos' defeat, and along with his death at the hands of the Sarafan in SR2, I think that doesn't indicate his weakness, but his deliberate lack of effort.

To elaborate more on this, Janos Audron is the "God" figure of the series. He is "The father of vampires" and from how it appears so far, the oldest living/dead (LOL) being in Nosgoth. I use the term "God" figure because the series is laced with numerous Biblical references. I suppose you can compare Raziel (despite being named after an actual angel) as the "Christ" figure or "The son of God" (perhaps not through blood relation, but more as a metaphorical observance).

Now you have the "God" figure (Janos) who can most likely affect the outcome of anything as well as perhaps even predict it. (Much like the Time Streamer can and Squiddy can influence.) I don't think that Janos has a desire to screw with destiny. Granted there have been time shifts and paradoxes, but I am inclined to believe that this was part of the design, and Janos is ensuring that fate takes its course without interupting it. Squiddy on the otherhand (lets refer to him as the "Satan" figure) if the roles were reversed, I am inclined to believe that Squiddy would interupt destiny for his own personal gain.

If Janos had defeated the Sarafan when they murdered him (which I more than believe he could have done so very easily) it would have prevented Raziel from murdering himself and taking his proper place as the (implied at this point) Reaver Guardian aka The Key to Nosgoth.

As for Janos getting his butt kicked at the hands of The Sarafan Lord, I also think this was Janos holding back. He defeated the Hylden before, I have a hard time understanding that he couldn't do it again if necessary. But as I said, that was Kain's perogative, not Janos'. He merely let fate take its course.

There is no way to estimate the true power of Janos Audron at this point. But I'll state this again, I think his plan was to hold back until it is absolutely required of him. I don't think we will see any combat action from Janos until at least SR3.

keepittrue
26th Jul 2002, 03:15
Uhh, how do you know Janos beat the Hylden before, I am not saying he didnt but there is no proof. It only says he is the 10th guardian, keeper of the Reaver, obligation to Raziel.

Janos got beat in SR2 only because the Sarafan were strenght in #s and they had Moeb's staff.

In BO2 Janos just gets his arse kicked like a weakling.

I agree that we havent seen Janos true power butt he sucks anyway. I like someone with authority like Vorador.

Umah Bloodomen
26th Jul 2002, 03:19
Originally posted by keepittrue
Uhh, how do you know Janos beat the Hylden before, I am not saying he didnt but there is no proof. It only says he is the 10th guardian, keeper of the Reaver, obligation to Raziel.

Janos got beat in SR2 only because the Sarafan were strenght in #s and they had Moeb's staff.

In BO2 Janos just gets his arse kicked like a weakling.

I agree that we havent seen Janos true power butt he sucks anyway. I like someone with authority like Vorador.

Did we miss the part about the big war between the Ancients and the Hylden? I think that's your proof that he defeated the Hylden and was responsible for banishing them when the genesis of the Pillars occured. (Along with the rest of his people). :p

EDIT Also, he could've chosen not to be at his retreat at the time of the Sarafan attack but remained. He made no effort to fly to safety (like you can expect me to buy that those wings are just for show LoL).

KainSyndrome101
26th Jul 2002, 03:42
The reason why Janos doesn't put up much of a fight in his Retreat is because he is disabled by Moebius' staff. You even see it send some kind of shockwave at him. And the reason why Janos got his butt kicked by the Sarafan Lord was because he was very weak at the time. He had just gotten out of the Device after many centuries, and still needed nourishment.

It didn't look like he wanted to be cast into the Hylden Gate. "Noooo! Kain!!"

Janos is not a weakling. He just ended up in fights at the worst time.

Overall, I think he's one of the coolest characters. He kind of shares the same feelings as Raziel, which makes them a good pair.

Anubis_Orr
26th Jul 2002, 07:37
Janos knew the Sarafan were planning something and he had plenty of time to get away as soon as he heard the doors to his keep being battered, he could've just spread his wings and flown out of their, but he had a responsbility to Raziel and his destiny.

chuffy
26th Jul 2002, 13:49
Originally posted by Anubis_Orr
Janos knew the Sarafan were planning something and he had plenty of time to get away as soon as he heard the doors to his keep being battered, he could've just spread his wings and flown out of their, but he had a responsbility to Raziel and his destiny.

i could help thinking of what that would look like. LOL
The Sarafan knights crashing into the room Raziel looking around and seeing Janos jumping out of the window. Janos looking back shouting sorry and goodbye as he glides to safety. Leaving Raziel shocked in disbelief.

As for the subject i don't think in SR2 Janos was thinking about saving Raziel and himself. Just as long Raziel didn't die.(even though he can't!!), Janos was expendable as long as Raziel was safe. I think that was why Janos didn't try to safe himself.


Originally posted by KainSyndrome101

And the reason why Janos got his butt kicked by the Sarafan Lord was because he was very weak at the time. He had just gotten out of the Device after many centuries, and still needed nourishment.

i completly agree with this part.
chuffy

Anubis_Orr
26th Jul 2002, 14:59
You've missed the point.

People have been saying that Janos is weak and basically stupid and that the Sarafan killed him easily without any trouble. I'm just saying he COULD have ran if he wanted to, just taken flight out the window. Also he kinda strikes me as a pacifist so I doubt he would fight anyway

keepittrue
27th Jul 2002, 06:23
Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen


Did we miss the part about the big war between the Ancients and the Hylden? I think that's your proof that he defeated the Hylden and was responsible for banishing them when the genesis of the Pillars occured. (Along with the rest of his people). :p

EDIT Also, he could've chosen not to be at his retreat at the time of the Sarafan attack but remained. He made no effort to fly to safety (like you can expect me to buy that those wings are just for show LoL).

Like I said, I am not saying Janos was not apart of the effort in stopping the Hylden. What I am saying is that there is no proof, it seemed like you made it factual when it is not. The only thing we know about Janos is that he is the 10th guardian keeper of the Reaver and destined to give the Reaver to Raziel thats all, nothing more. Janos could have been called upon after the banishment before the curse or whenever but its not factual that he is the one who defeated the Hylden or even weilded the Reaver at the time. I am not saying you are wrong, just that there is no facts. Janos could have been called 1000 years after the war for all we know. Also remember that the Reaver was forged after the pillars not before.

Also Janos could have escaped but he was too busy helping Raziel escape, thats the reason he got caught up.

Azuriel
27th Jul 2002, 06:55
is it me, or is Janos trying to always be on the defeated side.

Vampmaster
28th Jul 2002, 13:31
Maybe he knows he must die (and stay dead).

Rook
28th Jul 2002, 20:40
I don't know why (and I'll likely fit my whole foot in my mouth saying this), but I kind of got the impression that Janos couldn't just fly away. As if their curse, among all other fun things, also rendered the winged race unable to fly. I haven't played SR2 for a couple of weeks now (which is why I might just be eating foot here shortly) but if I recall correctly, none of the murals in the Pillars room showed any of the winged guys flying after the blood curse, with the exception of the one that seems to represent their "Saviour". In fact, the mural in the air forge pretty much shows them falling from the sky. At first I had assumed this was representative of their curse driving them from the daylight...but Janos's house seems remarkably "open air" for a guy who has been driven from the light.

I can't say I count that daring leap in BO2 as really flying. Besides, not having that ability might explain a bit about why (along with being weakened by the Device) Janos could not escape being thrown into the demon dimension.

Just a thought...

KainSyndrome101
28th Jul 2002, 20:46
That makes a little sense. But why would it take away their ability to fly? All the Hylden did was curse them with the thirst for blood.

Rook
28th Jul 2002, 21:04
Quite honestly, I haven't got the foggiest clue, and that's where the whole foot-in-the-mouth thing comes in. It was just a weird little thought I had. It doesn't necessarily fit with everything we know about the series. But I figured I'd post it anyway...

:D

Anubis_Orr
28th Jul 2002, 21:06
Plus how would Janos get out of his stronghold? There was no way out before Raziel busted his way inside

I have another question, how come the mural in the Sarafan keep depicts Janos descending on Uschestestein when he has all those blood bowls (or is it just synthetic blood or something)

Syvia
28th Jul 2002, 23:37
It's all propaganda aimed at making Janos look like a demon.

KainSyndrome101
29th Jul 2002, 00:28
The Sarafan lionize themselves by demonizing their darkest enemy.

Anubis_Orr
29th Jul 2002, 01:25
ALL myths are based on some facts, they take elements of truth and twisted them to their means.

The most convincing lie has the most amount of truth in it

Epsillion
30th Jul 2002, 09:07
Plus, in blood omen 1 when kain arrives in uschtenheim, he talks about 'the legendary janos audrin' and how he would swoop down out of the sky and snatch up his victims. This means Janos could fly after the curse.

L_Master562
30th Jul 2002, 18:03
I agree with Rook that Janos could not fly at either time. He would be so weak by Moebs staff in Sr2 and in Bo2 he was just to weak from the whole device thing. If Janos could fly anytime else is still debateable.

Vampmaster
30th Jul 2002, 20:40
I'd love to see Janos fighting back and flying while he's doing so. If we got to see a battle with tons of hylden and antients fighting them from the sky. That'd be cool. (Does anyone else think that Janos wings looked smaller in BO2?)

Rook
31st Jul 2002, 05:29
Originally posted by Epsillion
Plus, in blood omen 1 when kain arrives in uschtenheim, he talks about 'the legendary janos audrin' and how he would swoop down out of the sky and snatch up his victims. This means Janos could fly after the curse.

That may very well be the case. I'm not sure even I totally believe that Janos was unable to fly. It was simply a thought that came to me when I was trying to figure out why Janos did not escape at either the aerie or they Hylden Gate.

As Anubis said:

ALL myths are based on some facts, they take elements of truth and twisted them to their means.

The very fact that Kain refers to him as "legendary" means that what we know of him is based on an altered version of the truth. Raziel also refers to him as the "legendary Janos Audron" when viewing the demonized images of him in the Stronghold. They weren't exactly accurate representations.


Originally posted by Anubis_Orr
Plus how would Janos get out of his stronghold? There was no way out before Raziel busted his way inside

Maybe the same way Raz originally got in...:D

Azrael
31st Jul 2002, 05:43
Posted by Rook:
That may very well be the case. I'm not sure even I totally believe that Janos was unable to fly. It was simply a thought that came to me when I was trying to figure out why Janos did not escape at either the aerie or they Hylden Gate.

I think he couldn't escape from the Aerie because of Moebius staff, they (the Sarafan) weaken him so that he can't fly away.
And about the Hylden Gate, i think he couldn't fly because he was still weak from his long time "devoluted" (i think this is the correct word) and only could plain or fly...

Rook
31st Jul 2002, 06:32
Originally posted by Azrael


I think he couldn't escape from the Aerie because of Moebius staff, they (the Sarafan) weaken him so that he can't fly away.
And about the Hylden Gate, i think he couldn't fly because he was still weak from his long time "devoluted" (i think this is the correct word) and only could plain or fly...


I do agree with you about why Janos didn't escape the Hylden Gate. In fact, that's what I had thought from the very first time I played BO2. I figured (and I still think) he was weakened by his imprisonment in the Device.

But, in the aerie, Janos seemed as if he should have had plenty of time to escape before the Sarafan broke in with Moebius's staff. I mean, he heard them coming. I'm thinking either he knew that his destiny was to "die" saving Raziel from Raziel, or he couldn't fly. I mean, if he could fly, why didn't he just take Raz and launch?

Like I said, I'm not truly convinced that he couldn't fly. In fact, I'm probably leaning much more toward believing that he could fly and simply didn't. It's just a thought...

Azrael
31st Jul 2002, 06:53
Could simply that he was trying to gain time to Raziel complete the forge? Because the Sarafan could use the Reaver to enter in the forge and kill Raz, and you probably say this now: "but they need the fire imbued reaver to get in", no i don't think so, you need the fire reaver to get out, but to get in you only need the normal reaver...

And another thing, when Janos "teleported" Raz away the Sarafan were already in, and probably he was in the same position for a few secs to complete the "teleportation", so that would give the Sarafan the sufficient time to act...

I don't know, this is just an idea that "poped in my head" :)

corpdog
31st Jul 2002, 17:08
Janos is liked so much because he is the most intelligent person in the story so far. He answers most of the questions of kain and raziel. he is the big enlightener of the story. He is the only person that knows the past and all that.

And I agree he was probably to weak to fly at the end of B02 and he was probably trying to draw attention to himself so they wouldn't find raziel.

Non-existent
31st Jul 2002, 22:26
I do not like Janos at all. He, and the other Ancients, are just like the Serafan. They put up pretty Murals that make them look so noble and righteous when they are just as dark and corrupt as their enemies the Hylden.

As for not flying away... the staff can answer that, even if it did not paralyze him fully it may have been debilitating to his flight capability, because the range on that staff was quite far, Raziel could not even escape it until after he got to the chapel with William entombed, which was quite some distance, about the same area the Aerie seemed to take up.

At the Hylden Gate he seemed to fly to me. If not he was sure able to glide just fine. I think the only reason he even went to the Hylden Gate was out of pure revenge for his enemies of old (to make sure Kain could whoop the SL and destroy the Gate), and not out of any altruistic motives.

Basically, I think Janos is no better than the enemies he tries to get Kain and Raz to fight (those enemies being the Hylden); the Hylden and Ancients are no better than the Serafan in their war and depicting the opposition.

The best character that does not get much screen time is Elzevir (fear him) because he seemed to know so much more than is revealed, and he is pure Evil. (Yes, not relevant to the topic, but it does not matter, Elzevir is king compared to Janos, the Elder, and Moebius)

Umah Bloodomen
31st Jul 2002, 22:34
All hail the power of the mighty Elzevir. **bows and pays homage**

What can I say? The little gnome has power. :p

As far as being "evil" sure I mean he's "evil" in that mad-scientist sort of way. It's kind of unclear (and may forever stay unclear - although I hope not) who he's actually in cahoots with.

Would be interesting to see him as yet another devoute follower of Hash'ak'gik.

Non-existent
31st Jul 2002, 23:09
*looks slyly to the left, then the right*

Actually, I think Elzevir is Hash.
Elzevir:
Can steal souls away
Animates lifeless stuffed animals and puppets into murderous beasts
Looks like Pennywise the Clown, kinda.

Mostly I want to see more Elzevir because he got so little screen time, still played a major part, and there seems to be no reason behind his action (besides that of him being Pure Evil). Sure, he mighta been insane, but then again, even the Circle Members had a little more reason for their particular actions than Insanity, there also seemed to be Ego involved and a desire to rule/control, Elzevir lacked even that.

You can't spell Elzevir without first spelling Evil, adding Z, E, R, and rearranging the letters. (Evil spelled backwards=Live)

Edit: There, Their, They're. Corrected the misspelling. Turned EditL into Edit:

corpdog
1st Aug 2002, 18:49
Who is Elzevir?

L_Master562
1st Aug 2002, 21:51
He was in Blood Omen 1. He was powerfull and collected other peoples souls and he single handedly debilitated the army of Willendorf(sp?? I'm not checking right now) by stealing the soul of the king's daughter.

Fear Elzevir the Doll-Maker!!!! He is just that great!!!!!

I too bow and pay homage to the great little insane magical dollmaker.

Non-existent, though Bo2 seems to make it seem the Ancients were as bad as the Hylden, we don't know the whole story yet. Then again, your facts are supported by the Hylden General. We don't know much about the war at all besides the conclusion. The pillars being the force that keep out the Hylden and the Reaver is the Key. The banishment of the Hylden had caused retaliation by the Hylden cursing the Ancients. Thats about it. I think to that both sides are like Kain. Doing the right thing by any means needed. The right thing is in the eye of the beholder, so actually both sides can be wrong to each other but be right to themselvs. I think Janos knows both sides were wrong. It seems at the end of Bo2 that way as he kept saying what wrongs were commited by the Hylden while not supporting the ancients for doing the right thing by avoiding that part of the story. Too bad history was well written by the victors and was lost so we don't know squat now. Good we will see what really happend because of time travel. it will put the debate to an end.......eventualy. If both sides were wrong, doesn't that mean that Raz is manipulated by Janos to? If Janos went by the history that was written by his own people, is that why he seem sort of troubled by the past in Bo2? I think so. I've been up a couple days strait. Off to bed.

Non-existent
2nd Aug 2002, 08:30
L_Master: Actually, I have believed all along Janos and Co. have been tyring to manipulate Raz, Kain, and everyone else they can.

I also think the LoK writers are having a wonderful time showing the Ancients just as they showed the Serafan to be in SR1 and most of SR2, righteous good guys trying to take out the bad guys.

It just seems so convenient how the Murals look much like the Serafan's depictions of the death of Janos, or the memorial of the Serafan looking like a wall of heroes. It especially seems convenient how the murals seem to be leading Raz on to finish what the Ancients could not finish, a guarantee that the Ancients will have trapped their enemy for all time in a place that is, apparently, a living hell. Which, for the good guys, that is a very sadistic and cruel way to go about ridding the world of their enemies, every bit as bad as the Hylden's Mass weapon.

That Janos may be suffering from regret for what was done in the past is possible, but I think his hatred for his enemy of old would only have grown stronger through the years, even before his involvement with the Hylden during BO2.

Truly both sides will see their cause as 'right', but it does not justify them, or their actions in any way, even if they figured the right thing was trapping one group in an alternate, hellish dimension, or cursing the other group and building a weapon capable of wiping out all life on Nosgoth.

(Besides, something about Janos has always ringed false, he always seems to say just enough to make people not question him but stop short of actual answers; although, how much more he was going to say to Raz is debatable, since the Serafan ruined that little conference.)

Of course, it could truly turn out that Janos will turn into what the Elder was originally supposed to be, forthright and honest in intentions and goals... how depressing a thought.