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View Full Version : Square Enix Considering Putting Same-Sex Relationships in Final Fantasy XIV



member_10077577
19th Nov 2012, 18:19
The article is down below, and there are many more articles if you don't believe it. If this is up already, I apologize.

www.siliconera.com/2012/11/19/square-eni... (http://www.siliconera.com/2012/11/19/square-enix-will-consider-adding-same-sex-marriages-to-final-fantasy-xiv/)

member_10089716
19th Nov 2012, 18:44
The article is down below, and there are many more articles if you don't believe it. If this is up already, I apologize.

www.siliconera.com/2012/11/19/square-eni... (http://www.siliconera.com/2012/11/19/square-enix-will-consider-adding-same-sex-marriages-to-final-fantasy-xiv/)

Yeah, The Old Republic has been "considering" this for, what, over a year now? Probably longer, considering the planning stages?

I'll believe it -- and resubscribe -- when I see it. Obviously, they're not allowing it because they're afraid more people will quit because of "omg teh gays" than will join. Fine. I'll be a data point in the opposite direction.

Andres_Beoulve
20th Nov 2012, 00:08
I believe that another factor is the "rating system", like the ones of ESRB or CERO, and how this would affect the posibility of new (and old) players of buying/playing the game, also, FF is one of the TOP series in S-E, so it is not an easy choice

Leaferian-379423
27th Nov 2012, 02:27
Same-sex marriage wouldn't affect the rating. It's no more or less 'adult' than different-sex marriage. Also, the Final Fantasy series has a pretty big following in the homosexual geek culture. By deciding not to include same-sex marriage (which shouldn't be an issue anyway, given that they have cross-species marriage and it's no more shoved in the face than any other feature), they risk alienating a large portion of the fanbase. I know a lot of players, gay and straight alike, who have taken this 'consideration' to mean that Square Enix is not willing to take a stand and get with the times, and are bothered enough that they may even stop playing. As a gay man who has been a loyal fan of Square Enix games for years upon years, I'm incredibly disappointed that this is even a discussion. I understand they're afraid to make a decision because both ways they could potentially lose people, but I honestly think that a developer like Square Enix making this a standard would go a long way to changing the MMO industry, and gamer culture in general.

member_10077577
27th Nov 2012, 08:03
Same-sex marriage wouldn't affect the rating. It's no more or less 'adult' than different-sex marriage. Also, the Final Fantasy series has a pretty big following in the homosexual geek culture. By deciding not to include same-sex marriage (which shouldn't be an issue anyway, given that they have cross-species marriage and it's no more shoved in the face than any other feature), they risk alienating a large portion of the fanbase. I know a lot of players, gay and straight alike, who have taken this 'consideration' to mean that Square Enix is not willing to take a stand and get with the times, and are bothered enough that they may even stop playing. As a gay man who has been a loyal fan of Square Enix games for years upon years, I'm incredibly disappointed that this is even a discussion. I understand they're afraid to make a decision because both ways they could potentially lose people, but I honestly think that a developer like Square Enix making this a standard would go a long way to changing the MMO industry, and gamer culture in general.






I truly did not mean for this to be a discussion, I unconditionally expected everyone to have a positive outlook. I apoligize if I was offensive with this. I was merely posting this as news.

Grimoire
27th Nov 2012, 08:30
I don't see any reason as to why anyone in this thread should need to apologize for anything said or posted. News is news, and updates are updates.


na.square-enix.com/go/thread/view/139233... (/go/thread/view/139233/29068965/General_Forum_Guidelines)


"Show respect and consideration to other users. Users of this forum come from various backgrounds, where their ages, sex, occupations and residential areas differ. Thus when you are making a post or reading posts made by others, always respect your fellow users."

Leaferian-379423
27th Nov 2012, 13:09
Oh, I wasn't offended at all Corvo. I actually had already read this somewhere else, over a week ago, and simply haven't been involved in any discussions of the matter. I was browsing through the various threads here last night and noticed it, that's all. When said I was disappointed that 'this' was a discussion, I meant Square Enix debating over whether or not to put same-sex marriage in their game.

member_10628951
28th Nov 2012, 23:53
Is this feature really all that important? I don't see homosexual people being offended by its omission from the game.

I had a gay friend read the article. He said its more offensive if the developers feel pressured to put a feature like that in than not having it at all in a game. He says that it's just a game. No one should feel pressured or offended if they include or don't include it.

That being said as long as it doesn't affect development I really don't care. If it takes resources away then they should focus on making it a good game rather than adding in this feature.

Leaferian-379423
29th Nov 2012, 00:28
If a heterosexual marriage feature is important enough to be put in, then so's a same-sex marriage feature. ESPECIALLY if it provides in-game benefits, as a lot of MMOs like to do.





I'm gay, and I'm pretty annoyed by it. Like I said, I know a lot of people (gay and straight) that find this to be annoying and offensive. The fact is that if Square just didn't do it, sure there would be some people that would be annoyed. Right now, though, the problem people are having is that it's 'being considered'. They'd rather know one way or another than have the possibility being dangled in their face only to be taken away from them. Then, of course, there's the people who (rightly so) think that if you're going to include a marriage system, you should make it universal.





As for it affecting development, it would actually be EASIER to implement a marriage system that allows you to marry any race or gender than one that just allows you to marry the opposite gender. You have to program extra stuff in to account for the gender check, so choosing heterosexual marriage only gives the developers more work to do. It's not 'adding a feature' as much as it would be removing a restriction.

member_10628951
29th Nov 2012, 02:47
I sympathize. I do. However it's not as simple to design and program as you put it. You would think it would but its not. Game Development is hard and each new "feature" takes weeks, sometimes months, for people to implement.

I honestly don't think they should've said anything about the subject. This really shouldn't offend anyone. Like I said I have many roommates here that say this shouldn't even be an issue. We're all saying its a game. If the omission of something as trivial as this offends you then you should find a new hobby. I don't mean to offend or belittle but thats how a lot of people in our little room here in SoCal feel. (5 guys here some are gay and are fans of FF but don't really care).

Leaferian-379423
29th Nov 2012, 03:12
But it's not a 'new' feature. Marriage is an existing, planned feature in the game. When you set up a function like that, you have to add checks for things like items, Gil, and in this case gender. It's an extension of a party or group function, if you want to get technical, and every restriction and requirement is stuff you have to put into it. The more restrictions and requirements you have, the more coding you have to do. If they've already finished the marriage system and it would be problematic to go back and remove the code adding the gender checks, then it's understandable to not want to add it right away.





I can agree with you there, they shouldn't have mentioned it. However, if they're incorporating feedback and they've already asked people's opinions on this subject then they'd have to bring it up eventually. You say you don't mean to offend or belittle, but you ARE belittling. This actually SHOULD offend people. It's bad enough that gay people aren't allowed to marry out in the real world, but it's downright insulting to go into an imaginary world where an anatomically impossible giant-breasted catwoman and an ogre-looking thing with fire engine red skin can get married, but two Hyuur dudes can't. It's a game, that's true, but it's a social game. Community is key.





It's not trivial, and I don't need to find a new hobby. I will probably continue to play, personally, but I will take every opportunity the development staff give to make my voice heard and let them know that this feature is important. There are plenty of people I know that feel the same way. It shouldn't be an issue, but only because it shouldn't even need to be considered. I personally feel that if you don't really care one way or another, there's no point in you coming here and arguing that people shouldn't be bothered by this. You say you know gay guys who are fans of FF and don't care about the subject. I know straight people that don't even play MMOs (especially the FF kind) and still think it's pretty stupid they're cutting it out. Different people care about different things, and in this case it's a social issue that Square made the mistake of bringing up.

ArcanjeloOfTheSun
29th Nov 2012, 03:53
I have to chime in, since the opinions of gay people are being brought into question by our good friend PshycoNinja - as a bisexual male I find myself offended and bothered by this whole development, myself. I'm on the side of the fence that thinks that marriage should be included as universal if you're going to include it at all. It's not as though the gaming market hasn't spoken up pretty clearly about this issue, either - just look at the success of Skyrim as a game and you'll find there's really no excuse for a game developer to be shy about this kind of thing.


And on another note, the opinion of one, five, ten, fifty, or even a thousand gay people does not equal the voice of the whole. Even if you personally knew a million gay people who were completely unbothered by this development, that doesn't put you in a position where you have the authority to speak for gay people and decide what they should consider offensive, nor is it your position to decide who should have what hobby.


Like Leaferian said, if there's any sort of in-game benefits to marriage especially, there's no reason for it to be excluded, especially since it would actually take more effort to program in exclusion. Marriage, itself, is the feature, and it takes no extra effort to make it universal. I really can't see why exclusivity in this context is even a thing.


As for 'preferring to see Squeenix focus on making a good game than adding in this feature,' ... Well, see above. If they add marriage at all, it really doesn't cost anything to make it universal. I want them to focus on making a good game, too. That I think that, if a marriage feature is included, it should be universal, doesn't mean I want to DETRACT from the overall quality of the game, and suggesting otherwise is intellectually dishonest and manipulative.

member_10830183
29th Nov 2012, 05:26
Well if it's feedback SquareEnix wants... then to be short, sweet and to the point: I'm all for it. Make it universal.

member_10628951
29th Nov 2012, 12:03
I am sorry if I offended or belittled that wasn't my intention. However saying just taking out a "restriction in the function" is really not how it works. I am a game programmer an in a large MMO like XIV it's not that simple. Taking out a restriction like that will take time to make sure it doesn't mess with other systems within the game. Balancing, testing, reprogramming certain parts. It's not some small task.

I apologize I didn't mean to come off like that. I really do apologize. I just think people are underestimating how long it would actually take to implement this. I mean personally I have never cared for marriage in an MMO with virtual characters and all. But I understand the benefits part.

I mean personally if there was a game i loved that only had gay marriage in it I wouldn't be offended or care. I would like the game regardless. But I understand the implications an honestly they should have just made a decision instead of telling people it's under consideration. I think that's the more offensive part.

Leaferian-379423
29th Nov 2012, 12:35
I think that's the more offensive part.

Actually, I agree with this right here. That's what has me so annoyed; As far as I know, the marriage system hasn't even been finished yet. It's not in the alpha, and there's no word on when it will be added to the beta. Adding universal marriage right now, before the system is implemented and other functions in the game start relying on it, would be much easier than coming back later to change the coding once the game has gone live. If the system was already fully integrated and Square didn't get the feedback till after the fact, I personally would have completely understood that it would be a big change to make in their code so early in the new game. From what I can see, though, that's not the case. They've already decided that for now, they're going to develop different-sex marriage ONLY and consider adding same-sex marriage later.





It really seems more like a social debate than a technical one, y'know?

member_10628951
29th Nov 2012, 12:52
I can see how one would view it like that but the beta test is coming up in a few weeks. All systems that are going to be in the game are already in you know? It's technically very risky to add stuff in at the last second. While not as big as say recoding the entire marriage system, it has potential to become that depending on how that particular system was coded. Social issue? Definately. Technical issue? Dependent on how it was designed and coded. It's a little of both to be perfectly honest. At least that's how I see it.

LennethLionK3
29th Nov 2012, 16:30
I think SE made a mistake even bringing this up. If they didn't want to show their position in this matter, they should have made marriage universal and if it ever came up later in some other spotlight, they could have just noted how male players use female characters and vise versa. There are many real life straight couples that play MMO's together, and there are some of these couples that play the same gender in games. Giving them the option to marry in game as well.


Personally, I wish that kind of excuse were not even needed, as I believe all people should have the right to marry whom ever they want. But in the world we currently live in, I can understand SE's hesitation.


Then again, this is fantasy, not reality, so why would same-sex marriage bother anyone when it's a game. I see killing in games all the time, which is usually celebrated in most cases, so how is that ok to have in a game, yet same-sex marriage is not?


And the techinal issue I read is a joke... This game is ever changing all of the time, they have worked on the game night and day for over a year and look how far they have come. They have had extreme changes in the game overtime and they are implementing them even now. You decide what you wanna do to the game, prioritize these changes, and move foward. This would not put any hinderance in the making of the game. Yes it might put more on the plate, depending on how far they are with the marriage system, but to say it would be an issue they are unable to overcome is a joke. Besides the fact that they have not even announced a release date, so even if it did take extra time to accomplish, they are working on a semi-open schedule. I know they prolly have personal goals of when they want to release FFXIV, but they have a small bit of room to wiggle with.


With all that said about the Technical part, It's 100% hypothetical, just like some previous posts are 100% hypothetical. Noone knows exactly where they are in completing the marriage system, and the fact that marriage IS NOT going to be available in FFXIV:ARR at launch kind of kills the arguement anyways.

member_10077577
29th Nov 2012, 18:00
Something like this is what you define an "MMORPG". The "RPG" meaning the player has the capability to do whatever he pleases, and the "MMO" meaning he is able to do those specific things with anyone else. When you have MMORPGs like Star Wars: The Old Republic and The Secret World this year, controversy appeared from the homosexual acts and references that appeared. That controversy should not have come up in the first place.


I'm neutral when it comes to situations like these. I'd figure that giving an opinion on something like this would outrage both sides of a conflict. And there are faults in both sides on some same-sex conflicts (no offence to anyone). But I can tell that this should not be something to be "considered". Look at BioWare. Did they say, "Oh well, we might put same-sex relationships in our games?" No. They just did it. And they got a ****ton of money doing it.


And, it's not like people should be outraged because Square Enix has this mindset. It's not as though everyone would be forced to be homosexual or bisexual or anything else in this game. Or at the very least, care. That's the point of an RPG. To be the character. Make decisions, do what you want, play how you want, and etc.

Fantasy_Reborn
4th Dec 2012, 21:02
That's the point of an RPG. To be the character. Make decisions, do what you want, play how you want, and etc.





Well after reading this post, I had to chime in. I may be new to the "square club" I have always been a final fantasy addict since the first one way back when on NES. The evolution of this game franchise has brought about many changes. As also a gay man I feel that the controversy behind marriage in MMORPGs are quite chidish. As I agree with many posters on the statement of it "not changing the rating" or " it was a mistake to be brought up" it is a subject in which now was left wide in the open. Your statement Corvo brought a true statment, but lets flip this perspective the other way. What we have now in gaming and society is this "divide" it is the lack of decisions, the structure, and linear aspect to the world which has caused this to happen. We are trying to revolutionize the industry and make it more equal. Maybe being single for so long has made me passionate about love and all things relating to free expression but when it comes down to it; I want to sit down at my PS3 and enjoy a masterpiece which doesnt scrutinize who you want to be. I am not in any form a furry and dont appreciate such means of relations XD.. I respect everyone to chose their interests but when it comes to gaming we "NEED" your statment to be true.. How can we be our characters if we cant freely express ourselves.


I am tired of having my haven be at a gay bar or coffee house and have to guess who is what.. You want a real challenge be a gay man inside a mostly straight society trying to make sure your not making social fau paux s around you that get you even more isolated. Life is a game if you think about it but most of us have trouble adapting and seek games as a way to break our insecurity and chains and try to become something better. Sure I may be 28 but gaming has been the one thing in life that has kept me in check. Having a lack of freedom in a game "marriage" being apart of it only makes people feel suffocated and honestly Its time that the industry and its players realize ... We still feel pain, love, sadness ... Why cant free expression just exist and not hide behind a pre-determined fascade and just give those a way to just be who they are. Thats the true essence of an RPG. "The right to be who you are, without judgment, and feel like you belong"

alanman178
4th Dec 2012, 22:06
I have no problem with the "same-sex" thing as long as they allow your character to be able to be nice without it instantly leading to flirting. In Bioware's DA2 you were either a "flirt" or a "jerk" in some conversations. If Square-Enix attempts this, then they should have a wide range of options so you can work your way to the flirting on purpose, instead of getting there by accident. That's all I'm concerned about.

new_tradition
5th Dec 2012, 11:27
I really don't understand why anyone would be bothered by gay marriage in a video game, especially a Final Fantasy game. I mean, whats the worst you'll be exposed to? I highly doubt there's some prerendered CGI sex scenes, let alone same sex ones. And since this is gay marriage among players, the only thing other players can see if two players are in a relationship or not, right? Oh the horror *rolls eyes*

Leaferian-379423
5th Dec 2012, 15:22
I have no problem with the "same-sex" thing as long as they allow your character to be able to be nice without it instantly leading to flirting. In Bioware's DA2 you were either a "flirt" or a "jerk" in some conversations. If Square-Enix attempts this, then they should have a wide range of options so you can work your way to the flirting on purpose, instead of getting there by accident. That's all I'm concerned about.




No need to worry about that. Marriages are only to other players, not to NPCs.