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howie
20th Jul 2002, 18:06
I thought I would give web page building a try to see what I can create. I've never messed around will html codes so it would be best ( for me ) not to have anything to complicated but will lots of features; easy, fast, drag & drop, and yes free. [ I'm not asking for much :D ] Any links and advice will be greatly appreciated. ]


Signed,
Look mom I'm learning . :) howie

<small> PS - Miss Lead wear arr you when I knead y0u ? :( </small>

Zaccheus
20th Jul 2002, 19:59
Check out my super simple HTML Tutorial (http://www.rcl-software.org.uk/webpage-tutorial/).

All you need is NOTEPAD and IE, nothing more, and with a bit of imagination you can create something like this (http://www.rcl-software.org.uk/thief/missions/restoredcathedral).

howie
20th Jul 2002, 21:46
http://www.wcnet.org/~howie/

It takes forever to load the inserted background. How do I crush it so it doesn't take so long to load ?

Thorin Oakenshield
20th Jul 2002, 22:01
Load your background image into PaintShop Pro (Or Similar) and compress it. If you select Save As You should get some options for compression

Zaccheus
20th Jul 2002, 22:12
Originally posted by howie
http://www.wcnet.org/~howie/

It takes forever to load the inserted background. How do I crush it so it doesn't take so long to load ?

Cool!
:)

But you should really only have one body tag.
;)

The background image should be a JPEG if it is bigger than 64x64.

I'll try to finish my tutorial in the next few weeks.

All that remains is lesson 3 which talks the reader through making something like the TRC page (http://www.rcl-software.org.uk/thief/missions/restoredcathedral/v2/).

howie
20th Jul 2002, 22:15
PSP 6.0

I don't see any compress options under 'save as' I think I found that option in the animation part but I don't see it in the paint shop.

RicknMel
20th Jul 2002, 23:00
In PSP7 (Don't know about PSP6)

Go to File > Export > Jpeg Optimizer

Then you can select the compression value.

Good start btw. :)

Edit..I just looked at your code and I'm suprised it works.
You need to get your body tag closed, and also include your link and stuff after your body opening tag.
If you leave it like that, I think your asking for troubles down the line after you start adding alot more stuff to it.
:)

RicknMel
20th Jul 2002, 23:19
Most of these I have found over the last couple of years, and some of them were given to me by other taffers here, but they could all come in handy at some point during your HTML learning experience. :)

http://www.geocities.com/annabella.geo//html.html
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum21/1632.htm
http://www.htmlgoodies.com/beyond/buttonflip.html
http://www.fuzzylu.com/docs/html/js/home.htm
http://www.davesite.com/webstation/html/index.shtml
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/author/behaviors/howto/creating.asp
http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/98/04/index3a_page3.html?tw=programming
http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/98/35/index2a.html?tw=authoring
http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex5/linkinfo.htm
http://www.trainingtools.com/online/html/index.htm
http://builder.cnet.com/webbuilding/0-3880.html?tag=dir

Zaccheus
21st Jul 2002, 08:13
Originally posted by RicknMel
Most of these I have found over the last couple of years, and some of them were given to me by other taffers here, but they could all come in handy at some point during your HTML learning experience. :)

(...)



Cool links, especially the first one!

Thorin Oakenshield
21st Jul 2002, 10:08
Howie, When you select save as For type select jpg and then click the options button and change the amount of compression.

howie
21st Jul 2002, 11:07
Thanks Rick, Zaccheus, and Thorin Oakenshield.

Thorin & Rick
It must work both ways [ Go to File > Export > Jpeg Optimizer & save as For type select jpg ....options]. I have to go look at the PSP site and see if it's worth upgrading to PSP 7, so far, the options all look the same.

bravus
21st Jul 2002, 14:02
If I'm reading his initial message right, I think Howie was looking for software suggestions rather than tutes - although tutes are useful as well of course.

I really like using an editor that allows you to have a split screen, with the html in one window and a WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get: actual page preview) in the other. The one I use is Hotdog (it's an Aussie product originally), available at: http://www.sausage.com/professional/overview.html

It's a hundred bucks US for the full version (I kind of got there by buying and upgrading over the years), but IMO it's the best way to learn to edit web stuff, and allows you to get as technical or simple as you want, including lots of reference material and help with things like tables and forms, and with Javascript.

Another editor in a similar mode is CoffeeCup, available here: http://www.coffeecup.com/download/shareware.cgi?011 It has a 45 day trial 'shareware' version of what I think is a very nice program, and is only $49 to register.

Or you can do it the hairy-chested way like Zaccheus! I do some stuff direct in Notepad, but it's a tougher way to learn (IMO) and can lead to problems with cross-browser compatibility (the bane of a web developer's life) if you only test with one browser (IE, Netscape or Opera) - right Rick? ;-)

The other thing is, you did say you wanted fast, free and drag-n-drop. If you're not so much into learning html, but want to get started on putting up pages, the best way is Netscape Composer, which is part of the Netscape Communicator suite that can be downloaded free, or appears on pretty much any computer magazine cover CD if you don't want to d/l. It's actually a very nice WYSIWYG web editor that makes editing web pages no harder than editing documents in a word processor like Word or Word Perfect. For that matter, both of those word processors will also allow you to put out pretty passable web pages natively these days!

As for the graphic thing, jpeg is itself a compressed format, so simply 'saving as...' .jpg will compress the image, but if it does it not enough or too much you can tweak the compression/quality ratio a bit.

The possibilities are endless! So it becomes pretty much a taste judgement. But it might be worth picking up some toys, er, I mean tools, in the software sense: I've probably made close to 10 grand from web development over the years, so $100 for a copy of Hotdog doesn't seem so expensive...

Bravus

Edit: I didn't check your example page earlier. It looks great generally, but note other people's comments above about opening and closing tags: gotta be strict with yourself on that! (Hotdog and CoffeeCup can check syntax for you.) The other thing is that for me (Netscape 4.79) in 1024 x 768 resolution the background image tiled weirdly. It looks OK in 800 x 600, though there's still a stripe down the right edge. I'd be tempted to avoid using a single big image as a background, simply because of these tiling problems. A small repeating tiled background texture like on Zaccheus' example page can work better for the wide range of resolutions and even colour depths people use on the web...

I was about to say 'don't get me started on web design' - but it looks like it's too late!

Komag
21st Jul 2002, 23:41
Here is a compressed (down to 40something k) version of that pic:

http://www.keepofmetalandgold.com/oddpics/page002.jpg

howie
22nd Jul 2002, 02:10
Rather than trying to do some worthless grockle web site, that no one but me would visit, I'm thinking of doing a quick referance site for all the thief sites that have value to us all.
This site would be set up so that we can clean up our favorites list.

SITE LIST

Forums:
{link here with brief discription of the site}
Eidos
TTLG
ETC.....you get the idea

Fan Missions:

Dromed:

Art work:

Other:
{ricks site here :p}

What do you think I should add to this list ?

stikboy
22nd Jul 2002, 16:26
http://www16.brinkster.com/stikboy/community.shtml


Take a look at that - As of 5 months ago, that was the complete listing of (English) Thief web sites. Some may not work (such as Eidos :rolleyes: ), as I haven't checked them in a while, but it will give you a place to start.

Thorin Oakenshield
22nd Jul 2002, 19:30
Originally posted by stikboy
http://www16.brinkster.com/stikboy/community.shtml


Take a look at that - As of 5 months ago, that was the complete listing of (English) Thief web sites...

Where's the Taffers Tavern? (http://www.mseyre.freeserve.co.uk)

stikboy
22nd Jul 2002, 20:37
Originally posted by Thorin Oakenshield
Where's the Taffers Tavern? (http://www.mseyre.freeserve.co.uk)

Under T :D :p

Actually, I think yours was one of the last few sites I added, but my very latest update got erased :( so I went to a previous version. And I haven't done any work on the site in 5 months or so. But, I'm trying to get back into it. My old address is getting renewed, more and more info is being collected, and I'm going to get a lot further finished before the grand re-opening :) The site is there, but it is so incomplete and I wasn't updating like I promised, and I don't want to go through that again.

Anyone have a Thief site I don't know about, email me and I'll make sure it is added before the "live" date. Also, if anyone knows of any non american/non english Thief sites, let me know also. I'm going to try :rolleyes: and have a complete list.

Zaccheus
22nd Jul 2002, 21:24
Originally posted by stikboy
http://www16.brinkster.com/stikboy/community.shtml


Take a look at that - As of 5 months ago, that was the complete listing of (English) Thief web sites. Some may not work (such as Eidos :rolleyes: ), as I haven't checked them in a while, but it will give you a place to start.


I would be very honoured if you would add a link to my site.
:)

Thorin Oakenshield
22nd Jul 2002, 21:54
I too will be updating again soon. Esp. the links page.
If I come across more taffer sites I'll send the urls your way stikboy;) :)

EDIT: Here's a French site http://thief2.cli.fr/

howie
23rd Jul 2002, 03:15
....or too soon...depending on how you look at it. It looks like you've got all the links covered stikboy. Maybe I can think of something new, off beat, maybe a thief recipe page. It could have all our favorite foods for everyone to enjoy, we'll have to change the names though --> Karras Cookies, Burrick Burgers, (Jerky) Old Meat Sticks, etc.....

bravus
23rd Jul 2002, 03:49
/me designs the Double (Crunchy) Cheese Burrick Burger with Apple Sauce and a side of Venison Drumsticks.

Bravus

Stile451
23rd Jul 2002, 04:11
Bravus, you've got some weird venison over in Alberta. I expect they have wings if they have drumsticks:D