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Azrael
13th Jul 2002, 21:42
...yep, i've been trying to draw a Nosgoth SR era map, and i found some cool things(and i didn't finished it yet).

Umah, remember in the other forum, when we talked about the Silenced Cathedral?, well, by my calculations, its just in front of the Pillars (please don't say im nutz)

Here i made one in the BO1 map...(it just don't look as good as in the paper here in front of me... =| )

http://nosgothblood.no.sapo.pt/pics/requests/bomap.jpg

~note: i added some more things...

warpsavant
13th Jul 2002, 21:56
Far in the eastern mountains, a stifled titan stands in mute surrender - unwilling host to a parasitic swarm.


I think it needs to be further east.

Azrael
13th Jul 2002, 22:08
Hmmm...don't forget that Nosgoth landscape changed much, but i think its a bit more to south.... =|
Im going to play that part more to check if i didn't made any mistake.

darien_specter
13th Jul 2002, 23:31
Use the Pillars for a reference. They face south; or in other words, if you stand in front of Balance and face all the Pilars, you are facing north. It's hard to keep track, though... :D

Azrael
13th Jul 2002, 23:37
I used the Pillars as reference, and you got me all confused... :confused:

darien_specter
14th Jul 2002, 00:07
Sorry... what needs clearing up?

Azrael
14th Jul 2002, 00:08
the part after the Balance...

darien_specter
14th Jul 2002, 00:17
Ah. I mean that if you stand in front of all the Pillars (say, in the center of the dark circle, where the trigger for Ariel is) and face the Pillars, then you are facing northward. The exit of the throne room is thus south of the Pillars, and the courtyard of the Sanctuary north of them... and so on throughout the game, if one can keep up without a compass... But that's why I said the Cathedral is to the east, because that's the general direction back to the ruins, and on to the Cathedral, from the courtyard of the Sanctuary.

Azrael
14th Jul 2002, 00:28
Hmmmm..im still a bit confused, but i get what you mean.
Ok, tomorrow i'll try to take a shot of what i have in paper, and then i'll post it here...because its hard to explain how i did it... (well in english :p )

Azrael
14th Jul 2002, 00:33
Posted by darien_specter:
...But that's why I said the Cathedral is to the east, because that's the general direction back to the ruins, and on to the Cathedral, from the courtyard of the Sanctuary...

The Cathedral isn't enterelly to the east, don't forget when you are at the ruins, ( and following the imaginary compass that i made using the Pillars) you have to go to southeast, leading you to almost to the front of the Pillars...

darien_specter
14th Jul 2002, 00:54
That would have to be southwest, to get back near the Pillars... I'll see if I can whip out a crude rendering of what I drew as I went through... don't hold your breath, though, because I'm sort of deprived of any kind of graphics program at the moment...

Iron Head
15th Jul 2002, 06:33
I think the Cathedral is more closer to Willendorf.

blincoln
15th Jul 2002, 06:36
Also, as we discussed in the old forum, the Abyss is The Lake of the Dead, not in the forest =).

Power reaver
15th Jul 2002, 15:47
I think the lake in front of the Sarafan stronghold is the Abyss , In 2 million years , it shifted from the east to North of the pillars .

(Reminds me of Everest since its shifting to Tibet (I think, thats what my teacher said anyway :rolleyes: ))

I think the cathedral is a little more to the west .

Either the Nups Retreat goes a little North West or Razes Clan territory goes a little South East and if my Abyss thing is right , both of them go way to the South , perhaps a little bit more East .

I am makin a map too , lets tally our work , perhaps we can actually be accurate . :p

KainSyndrome101
15th Jul 2002, 20:28
Uhhhh... 2 million years is light years over the actual time elapsed. It would only be about 500 years from BO1 to the beginning of SR1.

blincoln
15th Jul 2002, 21:24
Um, this isn't something that's worth debating. The SR1 intro specifically calls The Abyss "The Lake of the Dead." They're the same thing. =)

Reaver of Souls
15th Jul 2002, 21:28
Actually, from BO1 to SR1 is longer than 500 years, in the opening FMV for Soul Reaver, Raziel says he has served him (Kain) a millenium.

warpsavant
15th Jul 2002, 21:39
Originally posted by Azrael
Hmmm...don't forget that Nosgoth landscape changed much, but i think its a bit more to south.... =|
Im going to play that part more to check if i didn't made any mistake.


I like your Cathedral's north/south axis, but I still think it needs to be further EAST.

darien_specter
15th Jul 2002, 21:55
The general assumption of the time is about 1500 years: Kain raises the Sarafan about 500 years after BO, and then the millennium Raziel states.

Ditto to warp, again: it's off east...

blinc: Which BO lake is "The Lake of the Dead?" Is one specifically mentioned? (I don't remember...)

Azuriel
15th Jul 2002, 22:07
well? where`s the sketch then?

warpsavant
15th Jul 2002, 22:11
There is a Lake on the Nosgoth map, the Lake of the Dead! Its North West of the Mist Form Dungeon, and is also the place where you step on the thing, go to the Lost City.


And like Blinc said the Sr1 intro says it clear, and so do the answers from Amy. =D

darien_specter
15th Jul 2002, 23:24
Az: hold on, I'm working on it... :p

Warp: I know blinc's right; I'm not disupting that the Abyss is termed the Lake of the Dead. (I, too, know the SR intro well... :D) I'm just asking where it is on the BO map, because I've only played it once and I can't remember specifically where it is. Is that the lake that's just north of the Pillars (which is what I've figured to be the Abyss all along)? The one with the little town on it?

Maybe you can mark a map or something?

KainSyndrome101
15th Jul 2002, 23:35
The general assumption of the time is about 1500 years: Kain raises the Sarafan about 500 hundred years after BO, and then the millennium Raziel states.

Oops, totally forgot about the millennium thing. And yeah, you're right - just about 1,500 years.


Kain damns the Pillars.
200 years after, Kain "dies" in combat with Sarafan Lord.
Kain is unconcious for another 200 years and kills Sarafan Lord.
About 100 years later, Kain raises six Sarafan Priests.
1,000 years later, Raziel gets thrown into the Abyss/Lake of the Dead.

200+200+100+1,000=1,500.

blincoln
16th Jul 2002, 00:28
IIRC the Lake of the Dead is the one that has the portal to the Lost City on an island in the middle.

Azrael
16th Jul 2002, 00:49
Posted by Az(him):
well? where`s the sketch then?


Sorry, but mine will only be ready tomorrow, because the only way i have to put it on my PC is taking a digital photo and pass throught my DAD's PC, but i don't know is PC password and he's not here (hes coming tomorrow), so you have to wait until tomorrow...


Posted by Warp:
I like your Cathedral's north/south axis, but I still think it needs to be further EAST.

Huh, thanks...i guess...but which way is EAST? Because i always get confused with that...

<--- East?
---> West?

Am i correct?

Good one KainSyndrome101 ;)

Hey Blinc, do you have any save game before the Lake of the Dead on BO1? BEcause maybe tomorrow i'll format my PC and i want to install BO1 again just to check a few things...

darien_specter
16th Jul 2002, 01:18
Well, if anyone is interested, here's the map I sketched out when I last played SR1. It's not to scale or anything, but the locations are as best as I could get them. This is hopefully only the first foray into a much larger project that I hope to launch in a few days... we'll see how that goes. :)

It probably takes about 10 seconds to load the file over a 56k modem; much faster for permanent connections.

Map of SR Nosgoth (http://www.student.smsu.edu/a/awl118s/Default.htm)

.........................................N
..........................................|
btw Az the compass is W---E
..........................................|
.........................................S

Azrael
16th Jul 2002, 01:27
Ok heres one remake of the older one that i make earlier, and another one just for comparision...

http://nosgothblood.no.sapo.pt/pics/requests/bomap.jpg

http://nosgothblood.no.sapo.pt/pics/requests/cliffs.jpg

And darien, your is super well done, but i saw a few mistakes, and im going to correct them, if you don't mind if i use you own map?

Azrael
16th Jul 2002, 01:28
Thanks man

darien_specter
16th Jul 2002, 01:33
Go ahead... I must have got the lake wrong, but that's a hell of a long way from the Pillars... I suppose I'll delve into BO again to see if I can figure it out...

The FMV picture you posted, though, establishes my location for the Silenced Cathedral: east of everything... :)

Azrael
16th Jul 2002, 01:57
Heheh, but i don't think its too east...
Anyway heres a even more crude SR1 map :p :

http://nosgothblood.no.sapo.pt/pics/requests/SR1crudemap.jpg

So what do you think?

darien_specter
16th Jul 2002, 02:42
Yeah, I left the ruins off because they didn't seem too terribly relevant... Like I said, the locations were approximate. I do still think the cathedral is more directly east, but to really confirm that I'd have to go check in SR, and if I generate the energy for that I'll edit this post.

I did find that lake and island (missed that completely before!) but nothing actually calling it the Lake of the Dead. But then, I found nothing calling the lake around Nachtholm (just N of the Pillars) the Lake of the Dead, either. And anyway, that lake with the island is just too damned far away from the Pillars. There's no way... the Abyss is far closer than that, surely... I looked at Amy's answers, and it seems to be that's what she's saying... but then again there's the distance question. The directions and everything make more sense from the Nachtholm lake...

BTW: I assume there's more in the Lost City than just one big room; how does one open up those doors?

warpsavant
16th Jul 2002, 03:17
The Lake of the Dead is the Abyss. Its that Lake! It must've got ALOT bigger if you think about it so maybe it is closer in Sr1 time simply cause it is bigger.



Edit: That big room has a door in the southern wall, only opens on FULL MOONS. There is 28 secrets in there that are actually just floor tiles. LOL Worst secrets in any game in BO:LOK. Some of the secrets that had vistas were cool, but there aint no vistas in the lost city.

Iron Head
16th Jul 2002, 03:23
I seem to remember the Human citadel being south-east of the lake, not north-west.

warpsavant
16th Jul 2002, 03:25
The Citadel is North West. Its entrance is North of Raziels Clan Lands wich was to the WEST, remember? Doesn't anybody other than Blinc play SR anymore? LOL j/k :p

darien_specter
16th Jul 2002, 03:33
Stupid full moon doors... okay, but where did it say that lake is the Lake of the Dead? Is it on the map that came with the game? Did I just miss it? I don't doubt you, it just doesn't make any damn sense, from the distances and especially in relation to other landmarks (Nupraptor's, the Oracle). (what do you mean, "floor tiles?") Warp, I play it all the time - I never uninstalled it in the first place... :D

Azrael, I went back in, and here's my response:

- I agree to some extent about the tomb; originally, I think I got mixed up coming out of the Sanctuary. This time, I started from the big outside door, which faces south, and took off down the canyon, which heads off SW...

- On Dumah and the Citadel we essentially agree; it's just a matter of distance. I don't think they're quite that far away, but it's REALLY hard to tell. Just a feeling...

- On the Cathedral: I did find it to be a bit more southeasterly than east, but not quite that much. I'd say more of an average of what we've got.

- On Rahab: Here I must disagree completly. Raziel's castle is very straightforward, basically lining up to the four cardinal directions. If you stand just in front of the fire in the courtyard, then his crest is west, and the courtyard is facing east. (I never noticed those defiled statues before! Of Raziel, I presume. Kain, you bastard...) The gate is north; and south through that door is that little hallway leading to the bigger hallway. The submerged chamber that I like to call Raziel's throne room is to the east again, and runs paralell to the courtyard. The tunnel leading to the fire forge leads out of the east wall, and the secret tunnel into the basement of the abbey leads bascically straight south to it, except for one little jaunt SW that bends back south and a turn to the west into the basement at the end. So Rahab is must assuredly south of Raziel, NOT west.

Iron Head
16th Jul 2002, 03:39
I could be wrong... it's been a while.

warpsavant
16th Jul 2002, 03:39
It says it on the Map that came with the ClueBook and/ or the PC version. Certain PAL versions may have the Map too.

darien_specter
16th Jul 2002, 05:16
Well, that's just one more reason why I've got to find that elusive PC Blood Omen... but you never explained the floor tiles...

warpsavant
16th Jul 2002, 06:22
Not much to explain about floor panel secrets, that's the point. "walk over the glowing part of the floor to trigger the secret" sort of the thing. Do this 28 times or so and you get all the Secrets in the Lost City.

Power reaver
16th Jul 2002, 11:53
What about the subterranean tunnels ?

They opened to the swamp in SR2 and south of the pillars in SR (spectral realm) and ofcourse theres the Abyss .

Or is that the underworld (thats the reason you cant go in there in material realm) . Although it does make sense as its was totally underwater in SR and in 100 yrs after BO it was also underwater . (with time the water flooded the area , the Abyss must be created in a similar way , this leads me to beleive that the swamp and a part of that other lake created the Abyss)

Azrael
16th Jul 2002, 12:30
Hmmm, maybe they got all fused, i really don't know...but i don't think they are the Underworld, suposelly (but im almost 100% sure that) the Underworld (in SR1) is south from the Pillars...

And darien, could the Silenced Cathedral be that small island in the middle of the lake?, if i don't get wrong, the Cathedral is surrounded by water... So what do you think?

Raz
16th Jul 2002, 13:09
darien_specter:

Your map seems to be one of the most accurate so far regarding the positions of the Sanctuary of the Clans, the Silenced Cathedral (though personally I found it to be a little more south-west), the Drowned Abbey, the Tomb of the Sarafan, the Necropolis and Nupraptor's Retreat. However, the Lake of the Dead is much further north from where you placed it, as is Raziel's clan area, the Human Citadel, Dumah's clan area and the Oracle's Caves. The distance of these areas from the the symbol for the Abyss is more or less spot on, but they just need to be shifted north more. :)

I too made a map a long while back and, apart from what i mentioned above, we basically have exactly the same thing... :)



As for the distance from the Sanctuary of the Clans to the Abyss... I personally feel that the reason why the Abyss is not too far from the Sanctuary in-game is because of restrictions. I mean, if you had to run up a single canyon to the northern most area of Nosgoth it would take ages. Another example of what I'm trying to say is the rock "columns" which stand in the Abyss. In the inroduction they are huge and the distance between them is also massive. However, when you arrive at the Abyss in-game you can easily jump the gap. Basically it's because of restrictions regarding the abilities of the structure of the game (I know I'm kinda being vague here, but I'm not really a whizz with technical phrases and I figured I'd be vague rather than potentially making a fool out of myself by saying something totally irrelevant!).

Anyway, that's my piece... :)

darien_specter
16th Jul 2002, 20:02
Raz: Well, that's the most sensible answer I've heard so far... it's just so damn unsatsifying...

Az: Yeah, that could make sense - if it's still there, anyway... ;) My original thought, before I actually tried to lay it out, was the island where Willendorf stood; but that's way too far away. This one fits in nicely with the distances and whatnot.

Something else about that, something that I think it was Warp suggested once: the Sunlight glyph area, which is very near the Cathedral, is basically a giant lighthouse. And so that implies a large body of water, an ocean or a sea, very nearby - as if eastern Nosgoth flooded... Maybe the water levels rose all over the place? Who knows...

warpsavant
16th Jul 2002, 20:44
I said the entire Eastern Portion of the Map was possibly flooded or a desert, because I wanted a better reason than technical, but Raz is right. But I like the whole world was hit by a massive cataclysm and flooded half the continent/rendered it un-inhabitable, even to vampires.

The Cathedral/Sunlight Glyph could be near the Great Southern Lake (very close to the Sarafan Stronghold) and since the Lake is real big it's easy to comprehend a flood causeing the Lake to actually become a sea that goes to the ocean or some ****.

Power reaver
17th Jul 2002, 14:02
Well The map Iam makin is almost the same , there are 2 versions . The 1st one shows the locations of them in SR1 and the second one shows their locations in the past eras of Nosgoth . I definately think the subterranean tunnels and the flood factor are responsible for the abyss .

Iam almost done with both of em .

Umah Bloodomen
20th Jul 2002, 03:13
I have another map-related question. What is the nearest village to the Human Citadel and Raziel's Clan Territory?
Is it Vasserbunde? Or perhaps some other village?

EDIT: I know that Vasserbunde is the village across from Nupraptor's Retreat (Ruins) and if I remember correctly, Coorhagen is past The Silent City? (Corrections kindly welcome).

Also, can anyone confirm the little structure at the top of the BO1 map, kind of by (what I am remembering as until told otherwise) Coorhagen? I was thinking possibly that it is evidence of Janos Audron's retreat?

Looking forward to the ongoing discussion as always. ;)

BTW is there anyway I could get a finished map when you all agree on the locations of everything?

Thanks!

EDIT 2: Where are Blincoln and his sidekick "Biscuit-Boy" when you need them? ;) :p

darien_specter
20th Jul 2002, 05:54
Umah, by my map (which is what I'm going to have to go by for the moment, while I try to resolve distances with names :rolleyes: ), Nachtholm would be closest to Raziel's clan territory. Though by the Lake of the Dead thing (and I still want to know where that name is in BO1, if it's on the actual map or just with the cluebook) I would guess that it is Vasserbunde. And it is sort of a longish canyon, so I can see where it could possibly be the lake with the menhirs (the Stonehenge-like standing stones)... but still... I'm not rejecting it, I'm just having trouble wrapping my mind around it...

If it's the little structure in the northwest corner, then I'm afraid that's merely a Bat Beacon. Janos Audron's is north of Uschtenheim, which is the village north of Vorador's Mansion.

And Umah, when I get my final products completed, rest assured you will get copies. How could I say no? ;)

warpsavant
20th Jul 2002, 06:04
black or royal blue, that is the question.

I keep tellin ya that Lake that takes you to the Lost City is the Lake of the Dead/Abyss.


I have a scan of the map, it big, but it says Lake of the Dead right on it.

Edit:

I'll EMAIL it to you. The closest city to raz';s clan lands may be Nachtolm or Steninchroe, I think one of these places is Melchiahs "Necropolis"

darien_specter
20th Jul 2002, 06:27
Thanks Warp, I'll look for that... I keep forgetting to close my color tag, and then, after some muttering, it's back in I go to fix it...

warpsavant
20th Jul 2002, 06:52
Ok. The map is sent.

Its really big, it took me 3 minutes to transfer.

Let me know if you get it. Sometimes emails that big get bounced back depending on your internet provider. So LMK.

darien_specter
20th Jul 2002, 09:00
Well, yep. That's it... thanks Warp. But it's so damn far away... And I'm sure VM is right, but then so much of that area is then crushed into a tiny space! I mean, in SR1 it's almost as far from the Abyss to the Oracle as it is to the Pillars, yet by that geography... there must be a better explanation, surely. Perhaps I shall go run through it, look at the distances again... but not tonight, it's very late here...

But... if those distances work out, then, by those calculations... the Silenced Cathedral could very well be built on the ruins of Willendorf. Maybe... hell, I don't know anymore, I give up... :(

Azrael
20th Jul 2002, 13:33
Hey Warp can you send the map to me too? (or you darien since you already have it) The email is in me profile...

Well, about the city's names and localizations, you're out of luck with me, i can't remember any =| , only if i could play BO1 in my PC...


Posted by Warp:
...I keep tellin ya that Lake that takes you to the Lost City is the Lake of the Dead/Abyss...

Well i think its there, i have never been there, but that localization its the same that appeared in my map (in a few posts ago...so i belive you Master Biscuit Yogurt :p

Power reaver
21st Jul 2002, 12:43
I wanna see it too .