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Iceburg
13th Jul 2002, 10:01
Throughout SR2 Raziel discovers evidence on who created both the Pillars and the Reaver... therefore I belive that Raziel will travel back in time to the war between the Winged Vampires and the Hylden and find the vampires that constructed the Pillars and forged the Reaver. He might find a way to prevent his eventual dimise.

Here is my theory on what Raziel might do to prevent his dimise and restore the pillars.

Raziel finds a way to prevent turning into the Soul Reaver (at the end of SR1 before the final battle with Kain, we see an image of Raziel and a deep blood red coloured reaver... this might be the image of the Blood Reaver as a rath blade?)

To restore the Pillars in the Future Nosgoth, Raziel must distroy the "true" force that desimated the pillars... my guess is the Elder God, both Kain and Raziel fight him... Kain sacrafices himself, not only to make it possible to safe Nosgoth, but to Safe Raziel in the Battle. Raziel then uses the 'Blood Reaver' to restore the pillars (quote: the pillars are the lock, and the reaver is the key)... but the pillars can't exist without Vampires, Raziel uses janos's hart to restor his vampiric life, thus restoring Raziel to a vampire and the blood reaver to it's physical form. Raziel then makes janos's Retreat his new home (now that his wing are restored).

As Raziel looks over Nosgoth satisfide that his task is complete Kain's goast appears.
Raziel: "Dead but not gone I see... Old Friend" he no longer sees Kain as an enemy.

Kain: "I see you've completed your destiny... but your journey is not over for there will always be forces that oppose the pillars, and the reaver will always be needed to protect the pillars"

Raziel: "I'd hoped so" smiling "life, would be so boring without adventure"

TO BE CONTINUED.

I'm not sure if that's how it will happen but thats my theory!
:cool:

Lozza Mate
13th Jul 2002, 10:18
if raziel doesn't become the reaver everything is un-written and he is destroyed

Power reaver
13th Jul 2002, 12:09
It kinda makes sense actually , with a little fixing here and there , it just might turn out like that .

Some facts for you :
The Red Reaver was actually supposed to be the Kain Reaver , with Kains soul s power in it . But what you said about it being the wraith Blood Reaver , well it may turn out that way . hmmm a Blood Reaver with Razes soul in it , vaguely possible .

I think Amy has stated that Raz is never going to be restored . Sad but its a fact . Even if he is restored , dont you think its too much of a happy ending for an LOK game ?

(for Lozza)The last part of SR2 , could have been the event where the BR became the SR , what this guy is talking about is returning SR to BR , which makes some sense cause the ancients made the blade a BR , if they really needed a SR then why did they create a BR ? hope you understand ;)

Lozza Mate
14th Jul 2002, 01:45
I know what he's talking about, but that just wouldn't work.

If Raziel never becomes the soul reaver then everything that has occured can't happen because the soul reaver never existed. This means that most of history would be un-writen, and would probably result in Raziel's destruction.

chinese-soul-eater
14th Jul 2002, 04:09
the ending sounds a little to jolly for me

raziel smiling
calling kain a friend


i dont think so

raz might call kain a friend when talkin to himself but i dont think he will call kain a friend out loud

Power reaver
14th Jul 2002, 05:17
No Lozza , what Iam saying is turning the SR back to BR after all the events have occured (ie I mean turning the soul stealing Wraith blade in Razes arm into the Blood Stealing Wraith Blade in Razes arm with Razes soul still in it) . This transformation would be a new event that doesnt change anything that has occured in the previous games , but makes Raziel even stronger as the blade becomes powerful having the blood and Raz can have the soul .

The more I think of it , the more I like it .:cool:

Lozza Mate
14th Jul 2002, 10:06
Raziel must be turned into the blade indefinately so as to complete the infinite loop he will under go as a the soul reaver, he can't just become the reaver and then have it reversed

Power reaver
14th Jul 2002, 13:02
Well , I don know about that ,

Like Chris always sez
Patince is a virtue , only time will tell or something like that .

Iceburg
15th Jul 2002, 08:54
ok, so Raz can't escape turning into the SR... But when he does, what happens to the Wrath blade he has? does it dissapear? Remember this is the future blade, Raz is turned into the Past blade.

Perhaps when Raz turns into the SR the blade he has in his arm is released... and maybe the anchient Vamps know a way of freeing Raz. this now hardens my theory of Raz surviving and possesing a Wrath BR.

Lozza Mate
15th Jul 2002, 11:08
that is one question that has always anoyed me a little, it's possible that the wraith blade enters the reaver with raziel, but that's a little strange and every time the loop is made the reaver would gain a soul.

another possibility is that the wraith blade will just dissapait and fade away (without a host it's dead)

another is what you suggested, the wraith blade, it's role completed might reform into it's true body: Raziel, finally free... but that's a bit of a sad ending, I would hate to see a deranged Raziel wandering the land unable to make sense of it's existance :(

It could be that the Wraith blade does simply die, and if what some of the Elder has told us is true, his soul would then spin again on the wheel of fate (perhaps re-incarnation is the end result?) that sounds kinda nice for an ending, the soul would fade to spectral and then inhabit a new born human in the future

Power reaver
15th Jul 2002, 15:16
So what your saying is , wraith Blade goes in BR turning it to SR , and Raz is incarted as hmmmm perhaps a blue Winged one (Perhaps Janos ?) , or are you saying it the other way round ?

Lozza Mate
16th Jul 2002, 10:01
the other way around:

Raziel's future self (wraith blade) dies and fades away (perhaps being re-incarnated)

and don't even start with the "raziel is/will be a winged vampire!!!" coz I hate that damn theory and if the writers end up doing that in some of the cheesy theories I heard on this board, I'm gonna be pissed (and we wouldn't want that :P)

Power reaver
16th Jul 2002, 12:19
No not Raz , but his incarnation , hmmm the idea isnt as bad as you are saying , although its kind of cheesy , this thing could make up some preety ironic stuff and possibly continuing the game as Janos (as he is thrown into the demon dimention in BO2 , isnt he ?)

Also I like the way the story ends with Raz , it isnt sad , and its not the cheesy everybody lives happily everafter thing either .

Nyriel
16th Jul 2002, 14:10
Interesting! Though I can't quite imagine the delectable Raziel with a smile on his face.

Hmm. Here is how it would become even happier - with Janos's heart Raziel would become a perfect combination of himself and Janos - (like a joined Trill, for those who are fans of Startrek DS9) so Janos would not even really be dead.

Kain's self sacrifice would bring him back to life (like Aslan in "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe") and so we wouldn't have to be sad at his death.

Well, this is sounding more and more like the Brady Bunch. Here is another idea. The handsome and sexy vampire Raziel switches dimensions and comes and marries me. Hell, I would even like him as the wraith. He and I live happily ever after and Kaine and Janos et al do as they will in Nosgoth (I hate to admit it, but that sounds even more like the Brady Bunch).

What the hell

Nyr

Iceburg
17th Jul 2002, 09:43
I think your right about the wraith blade not returning to it's former self... perhaps Kain will becomes the new host, I once had a theory that; at the end or even during SR3 (they might make it a 2 part story between 2 games), Raziel Gives into his fate. Kain then becomes the gardian of the reaver and Battles the evil gods (Raz's last request to Kain).

I know, I know. how can the Pillars be restored if Kains still alive. Well the famous quote "the pillars are the lock""and the reaver is the key" well perhaps the Reaver can be used to restore and reset the pillars, eliminating Kain as balance gardian.

That would be sweet to see Kain with the wraith blade... as he battles the evil gods of Nosgoth, he talks to the Wraith blade as thought a peice of Raz still lives, and when Kain confonts the one who was behind all this, he says "well Raziel, are you ready for vengance", the wraith blade hums and glows in anticipation.

And the story (leagacy of Kain) continues.

Anubis_Orr
17th Jul 2002, 18:38
Well, the Reaver is a part of Raziel so I don't think it can exist in that form without him. However, Raziel doesn't actually have a body so perhaps he could "join" with Kain and form a living extension of the Reaver through Kain (not actually sharing Kain's body just not reintegrating himself totally into the physical word, just the aspect of the reaver which would form around Kain's arm)

Bloodspawn
18th Jul 2002, 12:43
The wraith blade is the tenuous connection which identifies Raziels' destiny to the Blood Reaver, and sustaines that identity thoughout the peiod of his self discovery, and ultimately after his inexorable fate. The part that is unexplained as yet is, what serries of events causes Ras to loose this integeral link to the ether blade, up untill Kain frees it from its phyical twin, to once again become Raziels' destiny?