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Reaver of Souls
12th Jul 2002, 21:57
Before I ask my question can I just say that I am a newbie here and haven't quite found the frame of mind to see and understand the conspiracies and the enormity of the storyline (:o) so please try and dummy it down a bit if you can for now.
That being said, my question is about the evolutionary order and patterns that the vampires have. Now, according to the SR intro and manual, "Kain would enter the state of change and emerge with a new gift", and "some years after the master, our evolution would follow", which I've always thought meant that Kain evolved, and then the lieutenants would follow later, recieving the same gift that Kain did.
If this is right (which I'm asking here) then all the vampires had the same gifts up to the point of Raziel's execution. I'm guessing that Raziel getting wings and having to be first screwed that up somehow, and then the order kinda fell to pieces, or perhaps the fact that the clans became scattered changed it and they just started evolving on their own.
Another thought: could they choose how they evolve? If so, then that would expalin it, otherwise it's just sort of odd, cause all the clan leaders got different abilities.:confused:

dago
12th Jul 2002, 22:12
they all follow after kain...it is also a more phsyical evolution...im not sure about dark gifts...
when raz evolved b4 kain, i think the order got messed up...im not quite sure what happened next...

darien_specter
12th Jul 2002, 22:23
I always figured that, about the same time as Raziel or shortly thereafter, the other brothers began to acquire their individual gifts. Since theirs are all considerably less obvious to the naked eye, it is conceivable to me that in their early stages, while they still retained their human form, they could hide this fact from Kain. Soon after, I figure, they started hiding in their clan territories, everything started falling apart, and they grew monstrous, while Kain continued his normal evolution. Unless he had by then ceased...

Lozza Mate
13th Jul 2002, 01:44
It has always been my understanding that it is not the body which is vampiric, but the soul and thus influences the body into evolving supernatural powers and physical abilities. And this is why when a vampire is killed and it's soul is sent to the spectral realm the body starts to rot like a normal body; because it is no longer vampiric (temporarily at least).

Thus it has been my view that it was not entirely the surroundings of a vampire which dictates it's evolutionary path, but also the influence of it's soul's persona.

For example:
Raziel - "Zephon, you visage becomes you, it is an appropriate reflection of your soul"

This statement leads us to believe that Zephon has always been a sinister bastard and thus his soul's personality and desires manifested themselves in his body's evolution.

This can also be seen in Dumah: he was a power full warrior and completely arrogent, thus his body took on the visage he had of himself: an indestrucable power-house.

Therefore I believe it is the soul and it's personality, desires etc. which play a large role in dictating the vampires evolutionary path.

chinese-soul-eater
13th Jul 2002, 02:56
I think the evolutionary path got screwed up because there was no balance in nosgoth

i heard that somwhere i think

with no balance nothing was in order

:D

Lozza Mate
13th Jul 2002, 09:45
that is also a factor, the world and everything in it is corrupt and therefore slowly degrading. Including vampires and their bodies.

(It seems Kain is somewhat immune from this because of his connection to the balance pillar, but he is still insane anyway)

Power reaver
13th Jul 2002, 12:28
Well I agree with both the soul and corruption theory . The sum of these with the fact that all the clan leaders retreated to their specific habitats , and the amount of Kains soul that was gifted to them ( ie when Kain ressurects them ) , they got their different powers .

I also believe that their evolution isnt under their control , except for the personality thing (OTHERWISE RAZ WOULDENT HAVE GOTTEN THOSE WINGS)

SirRaziel
14th Jul 2002, 01:45
Originally posted by darien_specter
I always figured that, about the same time as Raziel or shortly thereafter, the other brothers began to acquire their individual gifts. Since theirs are all considerably less obvious to the naked eye, it is conceivable to me that in their early stages, while they still retained their human form, they could hide this fact from Kain. Soon after, I figure, they started hiding in their clan territories, everything started falling apart, and they grew monstrous, while Kain continued his normal evolution. Unless he had by then ceased...

Sounds pretty good I reckon I can guess the personality traits of all Kain's kids.

Turel. Has a very short attention span which is which he needs his ears.

Dumah. Was a bit thick headed. So that explains his armoured figure.

Rahab. Was a deep thinking individual, and had a phobia for water. So he turned into a shark.

Zephon. This guy was plain sick and probably liked to torture insects before they died. And then he evolved. We think?

Melchiah. And judging from his appearence he had no self esteem at all.

chinese-soul-eater
14th Jul 2002, 04:01
Everybody's destiny is different

your brother or sister maybe tall that dosent nesseccearily (mind my spelling) mean that you would be tall

your siblings may have blonde hair, blue eyes
but then you may turn out with black hair and brown eyes

everybody is different

Sade Lyrate
15th Jul 2002, 17:41
Raziel was just simply aping Rahab...:D
(stated this in the old forum, but got reminded of it with this thread...
and yes, the midsummer sun has obviously burnt my sensibility
through the four walls...)
I mean, first he takes the first two letters, then when Rahab & co.
adapt to water, Raz tells his kids to do the same! (There's gotta be
a price to be paid for living on the shores of the Abyss, after all...
just picture the scene...
calm, gothic morning, Raz sitting on his throne, his progeny wandering
about in their little territory...no bars or railings to prevent their fall
when their footing slips...
then, all of a sudden...
"Whee!"
"There goes another one... keep working on that evolution!")
:D

Time Streamer
15th Jul 2002, 18:00
:D

SirRaziel
17th Jul 2002, 11:33
Originally posted by Sade Lyrate
Raziel was just simply aping Rahab...:D
(stated this in the old forum, but got reminded of it with this thread...
and yes, the midsummer sun has obviously burnt my sensibility
through the four walls...)
I mean, first he takes the first two letters, then when Rahab & co.
adapt to water, Raz tells his kids to do the same! (There's gotta be
a price to be paid for living on the shores of the Abyss, after all...
just picture the scene...
calm, gothic morning, Raz sitting on his throne, his progeny wandering
about in their little territory...no bars or railings to prevent their fall
when their footing slips...
then, all of a sudden...
"Whee!"
"There goes another one... keep working on that evolution!")
:D

I think I know why the Razielim are dead.

royalmarine1980
17th Jul 2002, 16:50
LOL

JimZero
20th Jul 2002, 15:03
Wouldn't that be a kicker? If all the slaughs (sp?) and spectral beings are the reminants of Raziel's clan?