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chinese-soul-eater
12th Jul 2002, 02:52
What do we know about Malek besides

he was guardian of the pillar of conflict

and vorador killed him

he was fused to his armor



Do you think that Malek will play a role in Legacy of Kain Soul Reaver 3 and maybe Legacy of Kain Blood Omen 3 ??????


What part do you think he will play if so???

:D :D

Malek is the Best ( well thats my view)

Farfaniccio
12th Jul 2002, 03:02
if you recall in the end of SR2, Malek was annhilated by Raziel. So now Vorador DOESN'T kill him.

Ranmyaku
12th Jul 2002, 03:05
No he wasn't. You must be thinking of Sarafan Raziel, not Malek. Malek is still living at the end of SR2.

Jedilvr
12th Jul 2002, 03:33
I do however agree with the theory that Raz. WILL be the one to kill Malek. We never actually see Vorador defeat Malek, Kain just came back from defeating the other two, found Malek's Helmet, and ASSUMED that Vorador had been the one to do it. But think about it, Malek is just a SOUL in a suit of armor, who do we know that can suck a soul out of a suit of armor? And we've already seen Raz. interact with both Malek and Vorador. It was even because of Raz. that Malek was late to save the Guardians Vorador killed. Maybe that would means that Raz. had a hand in other events from BO1.

Ranmyaku
12th Jul 2002, 03:55
Now THAT would be cool to see.

chinese-soul-eater
12th Jul 2002, 04:02
1. malek dint die in SR2
2. I dont think raz had anything to do with Malek's death :D

darien_specter
12th Jul 2002, 06:42
Actually, it kind of makes sense... seems like a sword wouldn't do much to even harm a soul in a suit of armor (well, except for dents!)... unless it was the Soul Reaver, and we all know Vorador didn't have that...

Lozza Mate
12th Jul 2002, 06:59
Vorador used magic

It has always seemed to me that Malek was more along the lines of invisible and stuck to his armour than just his soul, when fighting Vorador he is thrown into a wall and blood apears.

chuffy
12th Jul 2002, 07:37
if malek is fused to his armour, then he must be fused to the helmet. so if the helmet was removed then his spirt must no longer be connected to his armour. that means his is no longer a phyisical being but his soul is still roaming around.


chuffy

darien_specter
12th Jul 2002, 08:00
Having not seen any of the FMV's, I have to ask which one contains that scene of blood spattering. If it's the intro, then that's the battle from 500 years before, when Vorador was fighting normal human Malek...

Lozza Mate
12th Jul 2002, 10:48
it's not the intro, it happens when Vorador fights malek (and then kills him) in dark eden

Lozza Mate
12th Jul 2002, 10:59
Originally posted by chuffy
if malek is fused to his armour, then he must be fused to the helmet. so if the helmet was removed then his spirt must no longer be connected to his armour. that means his is no longer a phyisical being but his soul is still roaming around.


chuffy
Malek is dead, his pillar was restored and you cannot fool the pillars

Azrael
12th Jul 2002, 13:56
Yep he's dead, but not his soul, i think his soul would possibly have a role in SR3, it would be cool...
And i don't recall any blood spattering? :confused:

KainSyndrome101
12th Jul 2002, 15:08
I do remember seeing red marks on the wall that he crashed into, but it didn't look like blood. How could he bleed? He no longer has any flesh.

Azuriel
12th Jul 2002, 17:30
how about a screenshot?

darien_specter
12th Jul 2002, 20:31
Yes, a screenshot would solve everything...

I don't think anyone is disputing particuarly that Malek is dead. We just have the theory advanced that maybe Raziel was the instrument of his demise instead of Vorador.

It just occurs to me, though, that such a thing would be impossible under the timeline as it stood then, because Raziel died 500 years BPC. That poses something of a problem...

Azuriel
12th Jul 2002, 20:57
Malek wasn`t screwed by his enemies, but his allies. Raziel had no intention on attacking Malek, and Malek was called upon by those 6 guardians. Moebius commanded Malek to stay. however, Malek wanted to go there ASAP. there, he saw those guardians slaughtered. he was knocked out by Vorador. Mortanius then captured Malek. Screwed him like someone has never been screwed before, and doomed him. not very nice is it?


Vorador and Raziel weren`t the direct reason of Malek`s total defeat.

"one must keep his friends close, but his enemies even closer."


now, who were Malek`s real enemies? the seen? or the unseen?

Farfaniccio
12th Jul 2002, 21:19
I would have sworn that Raz kills Malek. Cause he kills all of his vampire brothers and talks about them. I remember him talking about Melchia... which was malek right? oh well, I guess that I will have to play that part again to refresh my self.

Ranmyaku
12th Jul 2002, 21:29
Noo.... Raz killed the Sarafan Brotherhood, none of the Circle members, and Malek is a member of the Circle. Malek is the guy that comes in with Moebius when Raziel encounters the Reaver in the Stronghold. Then Moe and Malek disappear and Raz goes on his merry way killing the Sarafan Brotherhood. :D

Azuriel
12th Jul 2002, 21:30
Raz kills:


first stage:
Melchiah and Zephon.

second stage:
Dumah and Rahab

third stage:
Turel

fourth stage:
Raziel


Malek is the dude who`s next to Moebius in the room where Raz picks up the material reaver


Ranmyaku types a bit faster...

darien_specter
12th Jul 2002, 22:09
All this is a given. What jedilvr proposed is that maybe Raziel is the one who gets him in the BO era... not Vorador.

chinese-soul-eater
13th Jul 2002, 02:25
I dont think raz had anything to do with Malek's death because

1. why would raziel have to kill Malek, malek was nothing more than a defender that didnt know what the hell was goin on he wasn't in on any plan or scheme

2. why would raziel have to go back that far, from all of what happened in Soul Reaver 2 i dont think raz would want to go back in time (probably only to restore janos )

3. Does vorador look like the type of vamp that would say yea raziel you take him i cant kill him, vorador is that type of vamp that wants to show his power he's not gonna back down like a wimp vorador would die trying

4. If his soul was fused and his helmet was found i dont think that he would be walkin around anymore if his armor was destroyed so was his soul, Malek was not invincible he could still die its just that he was not human anymore he was like a wandering spirit with a purpose.


(little humor: Malek's armor was said to be hellish yet it has purple in it) :D

well i thought it was funny

and no raziel did not kill Malek

Melchiah and Malek are TWO DIFFERENT people

Darakari
13th Jul 2002, 03:26
I think that somewhere in the story of either BO3 or SR3, time-wandering Raziel will stumble across (or be guided toward) the SECOND conflict between Vorador and Malek.

I think Vorador will stun Malek long enough for Raziel to reave his soul out of the armor, and then after Raziel and Vorador leave, Kain will return to the area and find Malek's now lifeless helmet.

chinese-soul-eater
13th Jul 2002, 04:32
na na na na

seriously if that happens that story will suck badly

come on
so where theres a soul theres raziel

that sucks

thats is seriously cheezy

its sounds better when vorador defeats him
now all of a sudden raziel appears and sucks his soul

that is lame
no offense

Ranmyaku
13th Jul 2002, 05:30
Originally posted by Azuriel
Ranmyaku types a bit faster...
All those typing classes I had to go to payed off then. :D

Jedilvr
13th Jul 2002, 05:45
I'm amazed at how much debate this theory has created, unfortunately I can't take credit for it, I just agree with it. Forgot what thread from the old forum I read it on.

Now...

quote: Lozza Mate
{It has always seemed to me that Malek was more along the lines of invisible and stuck to his armour than just his soul}

Malek is a soul, we see the event in the opening of BO1, so he's not just invisible.

quote: darien_specter
{It just occurs to me, though, that such a thing would be impossible under the timeline as it stood then, because Raziel died 500 years BPC. That poses something of a problem...}

I'm confuse to what "BPC" means, and why would time-traveling be a problem? He did it three times in SR2 alone.

quote: chinese-soul-eater
{I dont think raz had anything to do with Malek's death because

1. why would raziel have to kill Malek, malek was nothing more than a defender that didnt know what the hell was goin on he wasn't in on any plan or scheme

2. why would raziel have to go back that far, from all of what happened in Soul Reaver 2 i dont think raz would want to go back in time (probably only to restore janos )

3. Does vorador look like the type of vamp that would say yea raziel you take him i cant kill him, vorador is that type of vamp that wants to show his power he's not gonna back down like a wimp vorador would die trying

4. If his soul was fused and his helmet was found i dont think that he would be walkin around anymore if his armor was destroyed so was his soul, Malek was not invincible he could still die its just that he was not human anymore he was like a wandering spirit with a purpose.}

1. We still don't know what purpose Malek way have. He way not know he's involved, but he still might have a role in all of this.
2. Raz. would travel forward in time, not back. When the game ends he is about 500 years before Kains birth, Malek was killed during Kain's initial quest, about 30-40 years after his birth.
3. Vorador and Raz. met face-to-face and Vorador seemed to hold Raz. in some sort of high regard. And that was the day the pillars were corrupted after Ariels death, I'm assuming the day of Kain's birth, which means it was 30-40 years before the last showdown.
4. That's why I think it would have taken Raz. to finish him.

Thank You, my respects to everyone, hope I don't sound offensive in any way.

darien_specter
13th Jul 2002, 06:08
BPC is my way of abbreviating "before the Pillars' collapse" because I got sick of typing that...

What I meant by the time problem is that, in the timeline in which we all saw Vorador fight Malek and evidence of Malek's death (ie, the original BO), Raziel "dies" when he is utterly consumed by the Reaver 530 years before. We have experienced all of Raziel's life as a devourer of souls up to that point, and nowhere did that include a confrontation with Malek the soul-armor. Since Malek died anyway, that would seem to rule out Raziel, unless, as a strange and unnecessary consequence of his survival of the Soul Reaver forging, he does go to that time. That remains to be seen, but I have come to doubt it...

Jedilvr
13th Jul 2002, 06:27
Oh, well I read somewhere that Raz. was suppose to come across Fledling Kain at some point which led me to believe that he would at some point end up in the BO1 era. That's why I said he might have a hand in other BO1 events as well.

darien_specter
13th Jul 2002, 07:27
Blincon's site lists that as one of the early possibilities for SR2 that got dropped very early on into development. If SR3 does see Raziel travel into that time, then he will either do nothing there, or have a history changing effect on events. Rather, if the altering of history at the end of SR2 sets Raziel on a path into that time, then already everything we know about that time is thrown into doubt. (As I understand it, there are those who wonder if BO2 is the manifestation of this, though as I have yet to play it, I cannot say...)

chinese-soul-eater
14th Jul 2002, 03:49
If raz kills Malek i will be seriously PISSED OFF

Farfaniccio
14th Jul 2002, 18:49
oops, my bad. I thought Malek and Melchia were the same guy. I thought that Kain re named him. I got confused because both of them used a big spear thing so I thought that Melchia was Malek. Sorry dudes.

warpsavant
14th Jul 2002, 18:56
Raziel isnt going to kill Malek. That's like saying after the events in Williams Chapel, Kain himself, after being spared by Raziel, travels thru time and kills Malek, and then use's "disguise" so that the executioner is actually Kain himself, and almost immedialtely after V's execution, while everyone goes after the Kain of that time, the other Kain (who was the executioner) takes the head and V's body and restores him.

Lozza Mate
15th Jul 2002, 06:08
it's spelled "Melchiar"

(I just needed to say that :D)

KainSyndrome101
15th Jul 2002, 14:43
Actually, it's spelled "Melchiah," not "Melchiar."

keepittrue
16th Jul 2002, 01:57
Originally posted by warpsavant
Raziel isnt going to kill Malek. That's like saying after the events in Williams Chapel, Kain himself, after being spared by Raziel, travels thru time and kills Malek, and then use's "disguise" so that the executioner is actually Kain himself, and almost immedialtely after V's execution, while everyone goes after the Kain of that time, the other Kain (who was the executioner) takes the head and V's body and restores him.


?????????????????????????? :confused:



No offense to anyone but this is s funny thread.

Lozza Mate
16th Jul 2002, 09:53
Originally posted by KainSyndrome101
Actually, it's spelled "Melchiah," not "Melchiar."
bugger, I typed it wrong :P

Azazel005
16th Jul 2002, 13:33
CRYSTAL DO NOT HAVE RAZ KILL MALEK!

I hate that theory its the worst theory ever. Malek and Vorador's conflict is legend. It is a key plot point and a subtle pointer to the entire first game. The Puretan hero vs Corrupted disfigured Villain when in reality Vorador is not purely villainous and Malek is by no means a gallant hero. Reflective of all of Nosgoth, that serving what a appears to be honorable is not always true? And the apparent corruption of the land is perhaps not all as it seems.

Raziel shouldn't impose on that classic piece of story archeticture.

I always saw Malek as cruel and sinister. Powerful yet heartless a moralless enforcer, uncaring of the circles true motives and only concerned with getting his hands dirty.

keepittrue
16th Jul 2002, 19:57
Originally posted by Azazel005
CRYSTAL DO NOT HAVE RAZ KILL MALEK!

I hate that theory its the worst theory ever. Malek and Vorador's conflict is legend. It is a key plot point and a subtle pointer to the entire first game. The Puretan hero vs Corrupted disfigured Villain when in reality Vorador is not purely villainous and Malek is by no means a gallant hero. Reflective of all of Nosgoth, that serving what a appears to be honorable is not always true? And the apparent corruption of the land is perhaps not all as it seems.

Raziel shouldn't impose on that classic piece of story archeticture.

I always saw Malek as cruel and sinister. Powerful yet heartless a moralless enforcer, uncaring of the circles true motives and only concerned with getting his hands dirty.

Keepittrue agrees 100%

darien_specter
16th Jul 2002, 20:23
Well certainly no one wants to throw out their first conflict, which is indeed legendary... But besides the fact that it can't work for Raziel to kill Malek (like I said above), Az is right. Vorador finally killing Malek is the settling of an age-old conflict; the final revenge for Malek's earlier genocide, and a symbol of his impotence in carring out such a genocide in the present day. Mere righteous anger could not bring the bloodline down; only devious, deceitful scheming could accomplish the genocide...

chinese-soul-eater
17th Jul 2002, 05:20
yes this post has been pretty successful

i aggree with all the people that say raz SHOULD NOT KILL MALEK


i mean as one said the conflict between Malek and Vorador is legendary

if raziel steps in and shows his face in the battle and then ends up sucking maleks soul
that will seriously piss me off

i think malek is one of the best characters in the whole entire game

i say leave the story between maleks death as it is by the hands of vorador
:D

Azuriel
17th Jul 2002, 09:40
yep, Az (me) thinks that Malek should only be defeated by Vorador.

SirRaziel
17th Jul 2002, 11:30
And I'm pretty sure the shocker of Soul Reaver 3 will not be Raziel shafting Malek.