View Full Version : Spectral Time Stop & The SR2 Demons

Reaver of Souls
11th Jul 2002, 22:43
I have noticed something in SR2 that I don't quite understand, and thought maybe one of you kind people could shine some light on the subject. In the manuals for both SR games, it says "In the spectral plane, time is irrelevant. when Raziel is in the Spectral Plane, time STOPS on the material plane."(pg. 17 ,psx manual for SR, & pg 31, pc manual for SR2).
If this is so, then how is it that the demons can switch planes to chase Raziel in SR2? They wouldn't have the time to realize he's gone, or switch to spectral to hunt him. Is there something I don't see here, or is this something overseen by the makers?

*first post, I feel so special*:D

11th Jul 2002, 22:57
The stream's don't stop flowing either.

11th Jul 2002, 23:20
Maybe they have a way of sensing him in the Spectral Plane, they just take longer to shift from one plane to the other.

11th Jul 2002, 23:45
I'm guessing that the demons exist outside of the normal time stream. When Raz shifts, he now exists in the spectral plane, in which time flow is seperate from the material plane, which is our plane. So to a human, Raz would dissapear and be gone for good. However, the demons are from a different dimension all together. (I think some of them were summoned by Azimuth (sp?) in BO1. ) I'm guessing these are the same race of demons from the same place. Anyway, my point is this: humans don't have the ability to shift to the spectral realm, but the demons obviously do. Maybe its the ability to shift to the realm that allows the demons to ignore the apparent shift in time streams to chase after Raz. Like Jedilvr said, they just have to track down where he is and shift to that point in the spectral time stream. Seeing as they appear to be working for some higher power, they could be getting help from that source as well...

Reaver of Souls
12th Jul 2002, 02:51
So the demons probably exist on a different time channel, or stream, or whatever, than everyone else, which means they could ignore the timestop that occurs to the material plane.

Interesting, but how does that work that time simply stops on the material plane alltogether?
Also, in SR1, a couple bosses also exist on the spectral plane for a short amount of time, does that mean that a small part of them is always on spectral, or were the clan leaders simply not restricted by common laws of time? The too must have existed on separate time streams, otherewise that wouldn't really work....

Power reaver
12th Jul 2002, 13:50
Hi Reaver of Souls .

Iam good in Time in all so I think I can clear this up for you .

The Demons are from a totally different dimension , like its stated above they are able to totally ignore the time freeze thing , or they can sense Raz is going to shift and go after him in the nick of time . We know very little about these demons except that they are immune to the pillars (ie the pillars do not affect them at all but they work for a darker "whatever" who is) . The dimension they come from may be totally different , from what we know we can assume that the laws of Physics may be different too . Due to this and the fact that the 3 realms are totally different , we can assume that all of these things sum up and allow the Demons to shift at will .

Another interesting thing is that the Demons material body shifts to spectral , as when we kill them in the SP there souls burst out of there body . Another proof that supports my Physics theory .

The Clan leaders do jump in and out of the spectral realm , but its a very minute part of their soul , thus the translucesency . Its probably due to the facts that there body is rottening away so there spirits may shift to spectral or something , also notice that melchiahs body is the worst , thus his spectral manifestation is the greatest aside from Raz and Kain(check out my "Kain can goto Spectral" thread) . I think its related to the crumbling of the pillars .

12th Jul 2002, 14:09
You forgot Dumah, he really can live there too, because he is a wraith...
And i don't think that time REALLY freezes, i think it slows down so much that looks like it freezes, and why do Water and Fire still moves in spectral? All other things stop, it appears that the Spectral realm doesn't affect the nature it self. Anyway, i agree with the theories posted above...

12th Jul 2002, 20:27
Good explantion PR.

In regards to the fire/water thing, time must pass in some fashion on the spectral plane, else spectral events could not happen. It is a different timestream, to be sure. And physical things exist as a kind of imprint, even if Raziel cannot manipulate them; move a torch, and it moves in the spectral plane too. So fire and water exist there too, and do the thigns that fire and water do. Or something like that. Hence, Melchiah and Dumah can chase Raziel around there, too (well I know, since the first time I played Melchiah sent me packing back to the Elder) because that continuum exists independently of the physical timestream. I really can't think of a good way to explain what I mean. It also occurs to me that, when returning to the physical world, enemies are right where they were left (damn Zephon's spiders!) but when dropping to Spectral, Sluagh are just everywhere. Hmmm....

Lozza Mate
13th Jul 2002, 01:48
It's a gameplay element

13th Jul 2002, 06:01
Two words:

Party Pooper.

Power reaver
13th Jul 2002, 09:06
Yeah i noticed that water and fire totally ignore the time freeze , maybe because they have a relation to Raz in some way . Raz has the fire Reaver and probably get the Water reaver in SR3 , or perhaps they just represent the fact that they are the strongest elements of Nosgoth .

Lozza Mate
13th Jul 2002, 09:39
Originally posted by Power reaver
Yeah i noticed that water and fire totally ignore the time freeze , maybe because they have a relation to Raz in some way . Raz has the fire Reaver and probably get the Water reaver in SR3 , or perhaps they just represent the fact that they are the strongest elements of Nosgoth .

Graphic technical element

13th Jul 2002, 14:33
I think the demons exist partly in both realms at the same time. That way they can draw themselves fully into the spectral realm when they wish to show themselves in it. I think with the fire and water, they are not really moving but certain things from the material realm can be seen in the spectral realm. Or maybe with things like that the last moment is repeated in a loop.

4th Aug 2012, 21:53
Hello there i know the answer for you :
now we all know since raziel's reborn by the old one, he used a portal to transport him to the material world , that will transport him to the spirit world when he feels weak and if he feels weak in the spirit world he will be transported to the old one, to recover, so the point is the portals are in soul reaver 1, soul reaver 2 and when you shift to the spectral realm the time stops.. and to answer your question. remember when aerial shifted to the spectre realm raziel followed her , see , the time stop does not affect people who have the abillity to shift to spectral realm such as the hyldens (the demons) , the old one , raziel , so the demons could follow raziel like raziel followed aerial

in legacy of kain defiance the old one destroys the portals and if raziel dies he wont be shifted to spectral realm but instead to the old one, and also when raziel died the time didnt stop but when raziel shifts back by his will the time would stop

4th Aug 2012, 22:18
killerblade please do not bump extremely old threads like this one. The topic of this thread has been discussed to far greater lengths in many, many other threads over the ten (10) years since this thread's creation. In fact, the answer has been given by Amy Hennig and the rest of the creators at CD, also. In addition, there is a separate Defiance section here to prevent those that haven't played that game and wish only to discuss the SR series here from being spoiled that opportunity. While your post doesn't spoil anything not known in the summary of Defiance on the box cover, etc., just an FYI for future posts.

Thread closed.