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View Full Version : A 3rd 'bonus" mission coming... but...



jimbianco
8th Jul 2016, 23:22
For players who own the Full Experience or own the combination of Intro Pack + Upgrade Pack, the Summer Bonus Episode is included at no additional cost and will unlock on July 19th. For all other players, the Summer Bonus Episode will be available for individual purchase later in the Season, packaged together with a third bonus mission for one price. At that time, Full Experience and Upgrade Pack owners will also get access to the third bonus mission at no additional cost.

I have Full Exp. so this doesn't affect me, but wow. I understand them charging for it, but IOI are really starting a sh**storm by making players wait. Just when you thought the release plan couldn't get any worse!

nazardo
8th Jul 2016, 23:29
Yup. I just made similar post and have uninstalled the game. I just don't understand why they are punishing episodic buyers of an EPISODIC game. I get wanting to get more $$$ up front and rewarding this practice but making episodic buyers have to wait in addition to paying for the bonus episode is just a total slap in the face. Communication / marketing of this game has been a complete disaster and I may be only one customer but they lost me with this move. I could swallow paying but having to wait until God knows how long to play content everyone else will have access to is complete b.s.

Shame on you IO.

jimbianco
8th Jul 2016, 23:40
There has been so much confusion about the pricing, release schedule, map vs mission vs episode , 6 episodes or 7... or 8, etc. They just added a whole new layer to the confusion. I can see it now. People that haven't seen these forums or the blog going to buy these bonus missions and find out they can't until who knows when! I have a feeling these "bonus" missions were supposed to be part of the original releases (3 maps 6 missions, the 3rd bonus mission will most likely be in Paris), but they chopped them up as a money making scheme, good for them, but they 've done it in an underhanded way. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they deliberately did this to go back and reverse the decision to give the impression they are listening to the fans!

nazardo
9th Jul 2016, 00:37
Yeah, that's what sucks... just don't trust them. I think they are strapped for cash to finish last 3 episodes and are trying to force as many people as possible to pay more now via full experience or upgrade pack to access the bonus content. I just can't think of any other reason to force episodic buyers to have to wait months to be able to buy the bonus episode/s. Oh, well, doesn't really matter at this point as done with the game but I just hope people who bought full experience / upgrade pack don't get screwed by similar shenanigans down the line.

doom-generation
9th Jul 2016, 01:35
There has been so much confusion about the pricing, release schedule, map vs mission vs episode , 6 episodes or 7... or 8, etc. They just added a whole new layer to the confusion.

I know I get called as "great defender" of this game, but there is no denying that they've made a right hash of it when it comes to this.

nazardo
9th Jul 2016, 03:10
I know I get called as "great defender" of this game, but there is no denying that they've made a right hash of it when it comes to this.

I've been a huge defender, which is probably why it stings so much to be treated this way. I could have swallowed having to pay but I just can't see any reason why you would prevent people who have bought every episode so far from being able play the episode at the same time as everyone else.

The only logical reason is to force people who have plunked down $35 already to pay $50 for the upgrade pack just to be able play the bonus episode/s at the same time everyone else can, which is a thousand times worse than charging for the bonus episode in the first place.

I'd love to hear a valid explanation for why they are choosing to do this but we will likely get nothing.

Immadummee
9th Jul 2016, 06:53
I think it's fine cuz it's s PERK for buying the game in full. It's like complaining that you're playing the game digitally now cuz I have to wait for it to release on disc cuz I can't afford to get internet.

It's basically a perk for season pass owners (full experience and upgrade pack owners).

Puiu13
9th Jul 2016, 06:58
I have Full Exp. so this doesn't affect me, but wow. I understand them charging for it, but IOI are really starting a sh**storm by making players wait. Just when you thought the release plan couldn't get any worse!
I also have the Full Exp. but i fully agree with you, it's a ****in disgrace.


Communication / marketing of this game has been a complete disaster
What communication?!! The community manager is too busy playing ****in escalation on twitch.


I may be only one customer but they lost me with this move.

They have not lost only you, its gonna hurt the Hitman franchise.


There has been so much confusion about the pricing, release schedule, map vs mission vs episode , 6 episodes or 7... or 8, etc. They just added a whole new layer to the confusion.

The whole release plan is a complete failure.


I'd love to hear a valid explanation for why they are choosing to do this but we will likely get nothing.
You will not get one.

Puiu13
9th Jul 2016, 07:07
I think it's fine cuz it's s PERK for buying the game in full. It's like complaining that you're playing the game digitally now cuz I have to wait for it to release on disc cuz I can't afford to get internet.

It's basically a perk for season pass owners (full experience and upgrade pack owners).

Wrong, it's kind a blackmail: buy the upgrade pack or you have to wait even if you pay for this "bonus episodes".It's not fair.

jimbianco
9th Jul 2016, 07:14
I think it's fine cuz it's s PERK for buying the game in full. It's like complaining that you're playing the game digitally now cuz I have to wait for it to release on disc cuz I can't afford to get internet.

It's basically a perk for season pass owners (full experience and upgrade pack owners).

wow, you just don't get it.... (and I bought full exp)

Immadummee
9th Jul 2016, 11:57
Wrong, it's kind a blackmail: buy the upgrade pack or you have to wait even if you pay for this "bonus episodes".It's not fair.

Its nothing like blackmail. It's like a seasons pass. That's why it's called the full game. They are not denying you any content, just when you can play it. Arkham knight did the same. Even when there's deals with publishers and consoles. One console will get either EXCLUSIVE content that the other will never get, or one will get content early before the other.


wow, you just don't get it.... (and I bought full exp)

Nope, I got it. People want content for free or the same time as people who bought the full game. Again, the Content isn't being denied, just delayed if you don't own the full game. Would you rather have Hitman make a $30 season pass? They basically included it into the full game so we are lucky as it is. How many games out there don't have season passes? It's the norm now and kinda disgusting. But Hitman isn't doing it.

So what is it that I don't get? You want the content, then buy the FULL game.

nazardo
9th Jul 2016, 16:01
You keep bringing up Arkham Knight, which was NOT an episodic game. It was a complete game. You buy it and get the whole thing and play the whole thing day 1. And then you buy a season pass to cover any DLC released. Or buy the DLC individually as it is released. Either way you have access to the content the same time as everyone else.

Hitman is an EPISODIC game. It's unfinished. You can't play it all at once. You have to wait for each episode to be released. And now they have added DLC (after they said they wouldn't) as the bonus episode is not actually an episode because episodic buyers can't buy it and play it the same time as everyone else. The crux of the issue is poor communication. If they were clear from the start there would be episodes AND then also DLC and that full experience/upgrade pack buyers would get all DLC and episodic buyers would not / also have to wait to buy -- most people would have bought full experience / upgrade pack (I know I would). But they weren't.

The episodic format is completely new to them and they have been changing minds / making things up as they go along, and instead of being upfront about this they continue to communicate poorly. We were told there would be a bonus episode, then weeks later it would not be free for everyone, then weeks later episodic buyers would have to wait until later in the season to buy it. Why not just release all this information at the first announcement of the bonus episode?

Puiu13
9th Jul 2016, 16:03
Its nothing like blackmail. It's like a seasons pass. That's why it's called the full game. They are not denying you any content, just when you can play it. Arkham knight did the same. Even when there's deals with publishers and consoles. One console will get either EXCLUSIVE content that the other will never get, or one will get content early before the other.

Ok, but they should have said it from the beginning: Hey ****in idiots buy the ****in full exp., otherwise we are going to **** you in the ass .Simple as that.

silenzer2221
9th Jul 2016, 16:14
that sucks im episodic buyer ... in that case the ep3 was the last 4 me bad idea from IOI

Immadummee
9th Jul 2016, 16:55
You keep bringing up Arkham Knight, which was NOT an episodic game. It was a complete game. You buy it and get the whole thing and play the whole thing day 1. And then you buy a season pass to cover any DLC released. Or buy the DLC individually as it is released. Either way you have access to the content the same time as everyone else.

Hitman is an EPISODIC game. It's unfinished. You can't play it all at once. You have to wait for each episode to be released. And now they have added DLC (after they said they wouldn't) as the bonus episode is not actually an episode because episodic buyers can't buy it and play it the same time as everyone else. The crux of the issue is poor communication. If they were clear from the start there would be episodes AND then also DLC and that full experience/upgrade pack buyers would get all DLC and episodic buyers would not / also have to wait to buy -- most people would have bought full experience / upgrade pack (I know I would). But they weren't.

The episodic format is completely new to them and they have been changing minds / making things up as they go along, and instead of being upfront about this they continue to communicate poorly. We were told there would be a bonus episode, then weeks later it would not be free for everyone, then weeks later episodic buyers would have to wait until later in the season to buy it. Why not just release all this information at the first announcement of the bonus episode?

Uhhhh Arkham knight season pass owners all DLC content 1 week before non-season pass owners. And yes, you KNEW from the beginning the game was episodic. If you had full intention to by the game, the full game, why not buy the full experience? Can't afford all at once? Sure, that's more than a legit reason and I'll give you that (if that's your reason), but again, the episodic buyers would actually get the game cheaper than people who got the game in full.

Other games with season passes do things as well. The division got all their DLC content for Xbox one users 1 month before PC and ps4. Rise of the Tomb raider came out 1 year on Xbox one before ps4 (if it's coming at all). Arkham knight got exclusive content that Xbox one will never get. All this info from these teams were done the same. Not from the start. Things change. Delays happen. New idea pop up and they add it.

All I can say is if you had no intention to buy the full game, then why didn't you just wait for the full game to be released?


Ok, but they should have said it from the beginning: Hey ****in idiots buy the ****in full exp., otherwise we are going to **** you in the ass .Simple as that.

Because things change. Adding new things for the gamers gives us more. There's no $30-40 season pass so consider yourself lucky. And the ones that got the full game, get a bunch of NEW content that was never planned. So more bonus for the fans. Does it suck for the episodic buyers? Sure. But why didn't you buy it from the start of you had intention to buy it anyways?


that sucks im episodic buyer ... in that case the ep3 was the last 4 me bad idea from IOI

Again, if you had intention to get all content, why didn't you buy it from the beginning?

BlueSpider99
9th Jul 2016, 23:31
I think it's fine cuz it's s PERK for buying the game in full. It's like complaining that you're playing the game digitally now cuz I have to wait for it to release on disc cuz I can't afford to get internet.

It's basically a perk for season pass owners (full experience and upgrade pack owners).

They never advertised the game as such is the problem.

I'm one of the people who bought the intro pack and Marrakesh/Sapienza separately. I was unsure how the game was gonna play out after the disappointment of Absolution. Most everyone's understanding was there was gonna be 6-7 different locations and we could pay $10 to access those in its entirety upon release.

Now I wouldn't be against these "bonus" episodes entirely if people like me had the option to purchase/play it like everyone else upon it's release. I'm not sure you understand a lot of us don't want it for FREE we want the option to buy it upon release and not wait months down the road to actually play either of these maps. The perk for as you say "season pass" owners would be not having to pay around ~$20 more (which I assume is what it's gonna end up costing) down the road.

Also your point on The Divison is completely and utterly false. PC and Xbone players have gotten all DLC at the same time with just PS4's getting delayed a slight bit due to various reasons not that they just get it later.

A lot of us have the intention to get the full game down the road but not all of us have $60 to drop on a game right from the start so the episodic release was more appealing to just drop $10 every month or so. Also the way the word it is terrible as it's only a "bonus" for a handful of players.

It's disgusting that anyone could support this type of business model. The game was advertised as an Episodic release and you wouldn't have any repercussions of buying it as such but again in the end we get screwed over. Also your point of "Season Pass owners getting it one week early" seems a bit flawed to me. We have to wait months not 1 week to be able to access it at all and then we have to drop a solid amount of money on it. A lot of games like Rainbow Six Siege have this as well but after the week or so everything is free to a degree (you might have to earn it through in-game credits or something like that).

No one even Full Owners knew these "Bonus" episodes were coming out so how is it that it is our fault for getting screwed over by something literally no one knew about.

Immadummee
10th Jul 2016, 04:57
They never advertised the game as such is the problem.

I'm one of the people who bought the intro pack and Marrakesh/Sapienza separately. I was unsure how the game was gonna play out after the disappointment of Absolution. Most everyone's understanding was there was gonna be 6-7 different locations and we could pay $10 to access those in its entirety upon release.

Now I wouldn't be against these "bonus" episodes entirely if people like me had the option to purchase/play it like everyone else upon it's release. I'm not sure you understand a lot of us don't want it for FREE we want the option to buy it upon release and not wait months down the road to actually play either of these maps. The perk for as you say "season pass" owners would be not having to pay around ~$20 more (which I assume is what it's gonna end up costing) down the road.

Also your point on The Divison is completely and utterly false. PC and Xbone players have gotten all DLC at the same time with just PS4's getting delayed a slight bit due to various reasons not that they just get it later.

A lot of us have the intention to get the full game down the road but not all of us have $60 to drop on a game right from the start so the episodic release was more appealing to just drop $10 every month or so. Also the way the word it is terrible as it's only a "bonus" for a handful of players.

It's disgusting that anyone could support this type of business model. The game was advertised as an Episodic release and you wouldn't have any repercussions of buying it as such but again in the end we get screwed over. Also your point of "Season Pass owners getting it one week early" seems a bit flawed to me. We have to wait months not 1 week to be able to access it at all and then we have to drop a solid amount of money on it. A lot of games like Rainbow Six Siege have this as well but after the week or so everything is free to a degree (you might have to earn it through in-game credits or something like that).

No one even Full Owners knew these "Bonus" episodes were coming out so how is it that it is our fault for getting screwed over by something literally no one knew about.


I guess not only was I wrong, but also the devs saying it as well? O.o
It clearly says that both ps4 and PC will wait 1 month for the first 2 DLC expansions. The remaining expansion will all be at the same time. Arkham knight did the same for season pass holders. Just because YOU don't agree with it, it doesn't mean it's wrong.

http://www.polygon.com/2016/3/7/11173606/the-division-dlc-xbox-one-exclusive


As for the way they have advertised this, they did mention that after they changed the plan of the game (before it was released), there was fine print that stated that the game could still change and without notice. So it's their fault that the consumer doesn't want to read what they are getting into? It's like signing a lease to an apartment without reading the contents within the lease only to find out that you can't have pets and you have a dog. So it's their fault cuz they didn't tell you that there's no pets? Read before you sign. Same thing here. Read before you buy. And that's the problem here is that people are just too lazy to read everything they get themselves into and then when things don't go how they expected, they blame someone else.

So ya, waiting a month isn't the end of the world. The division did it for their dlcs and rise of the tomb raider is doing it for ps4 players to wait a full year (if it ever comes to fruition).

And I also was on the fence about the game so I just bought the intro pack. And again, if they didn't add any bonus content and everything was perfectly scheduled to come out, then the people who bought the full experience or intro pack+upgrade pack would actually get screwed over by paying for more of the game compared to episodic buyers. So I guess they realized this and said they need to make it fair for people who bought the game in full and for that adjustment , I commend them for it. The full game buyers should not get the short end of the stick as they have committed to the entire game, whether good or bad.

And yet again, this is BONUS CONTENT. You don't NEED to buy it. Stay on their plan of the schedule and pretend it never came out so then you don't feel screwed over. Cuz what's the difference if it didn't come out at all? You still wouldn't get it and you still wouldn't waste your money to buy it or even play it later down the road. It's all about perspective. If you had full intention to follow the script they wrote for the game, then follow it and you will get EXACTLY what you were expecting.

BlueSpider99
10th Jul 2016, 06:42
I guess not only was I wrong, but also the devs saying it as well? O.o
It clearly says that both ps4 and PC will wait 1 month for the first 2 DLC expansions. The remaining expansion will all be at the same time. Arkham knight did the same for season pass holders. Just because YOU don't agree with it, it doesn't mean it's wrong.

http://www.polygon.com/2016/3/7/11173606/the-division-dlc-xbox-one-exclusive


As for the way they have advertised this, they did mention that after they changed the plan of the game (before it was released), there was fine print that stated that the game could still change and without notice. So it's their fault that the consumer doesn't want to read what they are getting into? It's like signing a lease to an apartment without reading the contents within the lease only to find out that you can't have pets and you have a dog. So it's their fault cuz they didn't tell you that there's no pets? Read before you sign. Same thing here. Read before you buy. And that's the problem here is that people are just too lazy to read everything they get themselves into and then when things don't go how they expected, they blame someone else.

So ya, waiting a month isn't the end of the world. The division did it for their dlcs and rise of the tomb raider is doing it for ps4 players to wait a full year (if it ever comes to fruition).

And I also was on the fence about the game so I just bought the intro pack. And again, if they didn't add any bonus content and everything was perfectly scheduled to come out, then the people who bought the full experience or intro pack+upgrade pack would actually get screwed over by paying for more of the game compared to episodic buyers. So I guess they realized this and said they need to make it fair for people who bought the game in full and for that adjustment , I commend them for it. The full game buyers should not get the short end of the stick as they have committed to the entire game, whether good or bad.

And yet again, this is BONUS CONTENT. You don't NEED to buy it. Stay on their plan of the schedule and pretend it never came out so then you don't feel screwed over. Cuz what's the difference if it didn't come out at all? You still wouldn't get it and you still wouldn't waste your money to buy it or even play it later down the road. It's all about perspective. If you had full intention to follow the script they wrote for the game, then follow it and you will get EXACTLY what you were expecting.

We did follow the script though, it was episodic and we bought it episodically. Also what are you talking the Full Experience is right away cheaper then buying episodically. Each expansion is $10 multiply that by 6 you get $60 which is what Full Experience paid. Episodically the Paris + training missions were $15 plus there are 6 more missions at $10 each which equals $75 instead of $60. If you bought the upgrade pack you would pay $65 instead of $75 so I your logic makes 0 sense.

Also it's impossible to ignore it because they said there will probably be Elusive targets in those areas and we don't even have the option to buy and play it. Also it's not one month it's MONTHS. They said they were working on the 2 and another one would be made AFTER the next map scheduled in August so that's well over a month.

Also with the Divison they ended up not doing that. PS4's Underground is coming out a month and a half later but the original 2 DLCs came out at the same time for every platform. Additionally I play The Division and we're already on the 3rd DLC and this never happened.

http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/gaming/673077/The-Division-update-live-release-times-Xbox-One-Conflict-DLC-PS4-Ubisoft

http://blog.ubi.com/free-incursions-dlc-for-the-division-coming-date/

The difference with those games is they announced it about before the game released if I'm not mistaken as an extra perk. There was nothing about these Hitman episodes announced at all save like a month ago. Game companies can do as they want but if they want to lose money and players due to stupid reasons like this one then that's their problem and YES people will get angry and be very less willing to support IO and such in future games there's no doubt about that. On top of that it was actually Semi encouraged to buy it Episodically as that was their whole buy in to get people interested in the game.

Also fine print is such a long drag for an argument. Literally if you read fine print they own your account essentially and they can terminate your account with little to no reason and you can't do anything about it (for most games). So if they randomly one day decide to ban you for literally no reason is it your fault for not reading the fine print? I'm not saying it was illegal or anything to do what they did it's just somewhat morally wrong as you're just trying to get more and more money money out of us when we are already paying $15 additional for the game. I'm not dumb I knew things could change I just thought if it did we would have the option like everyone else to be able to buy into it as well as this is a really.

All in all like everything in life it's all based on opinion so i respect your opinion and I hope you respect mine. Nothings gonna change unfortunately which sucks but eh I've learned my lesson to wait until full games are released to purchase them.

Immadummee
10th Jul 2016, 09:39
We did follow the script though, it was episodic and we bought it episodically. Also what are you talking the Full Experience is right away cheaper then buying episodically. Each expansion is $10 multiply that by 6 you get $60 which is what Full Experience paid. Episodically the Paris + training missions were $15 plus there are 6 more missions at $10 each which equals $75 instead of $60. If you bought the upgrade pack you would pay $65 instead of $75 so I your logic makes 0 sense.

Also it's impossible to ignore it because they said there will probably be Elusive targets in those areas and we don't even have the option to buy and play it. Also it's not one month it's MONTHS. They said they were working on the 2 and another one would be made AFTER the next map scheduled in August so that's well over a month.

Also with the Divison they ended up not doing that. PS4's Underground is coming out a month and a half later but the original 2 DLCs came out at the same time for every platform. Additionally I play The Division and we're already on the 3rd DLC and this never happened.

http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/gaming/673077/The-Division-update-live-release-times-Xbox-One-Conflict-DLC-PS4-Ubisoft

http://blog.ubi.com/free-incursions-dlc-for-the-division-coming-date/

The difference with those games is they announced it about before the game released if I'm not mistaken as an extra perk. There was nothing about these Hitman episodes announced at all save like a month ago. Game companies can do as they want but if they want to lose money and players due to stupid reasons like this one then that's their problem and YES people will get angry and be very less willing to support IO and such in future games there's no doubt about that. On top of that it was actually Semi encouraged to buy it Episodically as that was their whole buy in to get people interested in the game.

Also fine print is such a long drag for an argument. Literally if you read fine print they own your account essentially and they can terminate your account with little to no reason and you can't do anything about it (for most games). So if they randomly one day decide to ban you for literally no reason is it your fault for not reading the fine print? I'm not saying it was illegal or anything to do what they did it's just somewhat morally wrong as you're just trying to get more and more money money out of us when we are already paying $15 additional for the game. I'm not dumb I knew things could change I just thought if it did we would have the option like everyone else to be able to buy into it as well as this is a really.

All in all like everything in life it's all based on opinion so i respect your opinion and I hope you respect mine. Nothings gonna change unfortunately which sucks but eh I've learned my lesson to wait until full games are released to purchase them.

Ok you're not understanding me when I say "follow the script." What I mean is follow how it originally was and CONTINUE to do so. So that means that if this bonus content never came out, you wouldn't be upset cuz there's no content there to be upset about. So if you change your perspective and pretend it doesn't exist, then you're none the wiser and much happier cuz that content isn't there. So you're just waiting for the next episode.

On that, delays do happen. I'm actually happy that games get delayed if they need it rather than being unpolished then using is gamers to be test rats and debug the game for them on the go while we all get a broken game. I'm not sure if you were aware, but in assassins creed unity, the game was broken on release and nobody could hardly play. The frame rate was dropping to below 10 at times and would hardly hold consistently enough to not bother you. It was like that for months. So I decided to sell the game and come back when the game was fixed. It took almost a year to get them to patch it and finally have a playable game.


Now on the price of the game. First, there's 6 missions in total, Not 7, cuz you counted 7. When you buy episodically, you get Paris in the intro pack. That's 1. Then there's 5 more, not 6. All the missions are Paris, Italy, Morocco, USA, Thailand and Japan. Maybe it's a different price where you are, but I'm in Canada and the full experience is $69.99. So if you bought the intro pack, it is $17.99. Then each episode was gonna be $10 each. And so 5 episodes X $10 each is $50, + 17.99 into pack = 67.99. Which is cheaper tha buying the full game. But now prices changed and also plans changed. And that's good cuz the episodic buyers should not have a am cheaper game than the full game buyers.

On the division, well if it changes then there you go, just further proves my point that 'things change' and that's just how things are. But you make it sound like they are not allowed to change things. Things allowed to change cuz nobody really knows how things will turn out during development time. Some people make it sound cuz the episode isn't out that they are doing it while lying. Well maybe they are doing it cuz things from the other episodes that need fixing are being fixed, like blood decals. Or maybe they are polishing up the game even more so there's less frame rate issues like in Italy when you're near the virus and even so locked at 30fps, not unlocked where it could get unstable.

EDIT: I didn't read ALL of your links before typing and submitting this but here's where you're still mistaken. The first link you gave isn't the expansions. They are just new content. Underground just came out and has NOT for ps4. Will be on aug 2. And the other Expansion packs have yet to come. Patch updates and little content updates don't count as what I'm talking about. Look at the names of the packs in my link then look at the names of the dlcs in your links. They don't match. Cuz the ones in yours are not expansion packs which I was talking about. Conflict isn't one of the expansion packs. That's why all platforms have it. Underground is and ps4 doesn't have it now as I stated originally.

Let's look at Arkham Knight for a sec. A lot of people skipped on the season pass based on the price and he amount of content that was included for it. Many who skipped on it said they would only buy the things they wanted to save money. Bu then the community started an outcry about the content. And so rocksteady took that feedback and started to make new content. Even more content that was never announced. It was to give more to the gamers. So suddenly people were complaining that they skipped the season pass but now all the new material coming would cost them more than buying the season pass and they got upset. Well again, things change. Rocksteady make their fans happy by giving them what they were requesting. More batman skins. More Batmobile skins. More other characters in the game skins. An extra side episode or 2. Again, things changed on community feedback. It was never initially announced but out came new content and non season pass owners were upset.

And yes fine print is a hassle, but it's what YOU are agreeing on. Once you agree on it, you can't say it's something they shouldn't do. Well maybe ya, they shouldn't do it, but again, YOU'RE AGREEING to it. If you don't agree with it, then don't sign anything and go elsewhere. You can't agree with something and then say it's not fair or its wrong. Sure you may be right, but again, you agreed to that so the mistake is on you, not them. So ya, morally it may not be the best approach, but in the eye of the law, it's a technicality and so they are right. So don't put your signature where you don't believe in putting in there.

So when it comes to technicalities, this bonus content isn't AN EPISODE. So technically, episodic buyers shouldn't get access to it, at all.
They chose to go the episodes way so let them ONLY get episodes.

It's just that people choose to make their decisions, and when they don't get what they are expecting, they cry. But as over said a million times, things change. Games get delayed. New material is added. Other material might need to be removed or never made. That's how it is when things are created. Other ideas come along and alter the path.

I just don't get how anyone can say they deserve this content at the same time as the full game buyers? I reiterate, This isn't an episode. Episode buyers bought the game with episodes. And the difference between you and I are perspective, cuz we both are episodic buyers. Well not me anymore, but initially I was going to be. I bought the intro pack to buy the episodes when they released but since the games hit damage was off, I decided to wait to buy Italy. Now finally after Morocco came out, the hit damage is fixed. Head shots with the silencer is a kill, even from a good distance. So after seeing that in gameplay, I decided to skip the episode buys and go right to the upgrade pack. And this was all before I knew anything about the bonus content.

Anyways, I'm done replying to you. Not because I don't want to talk with you, but because we are typing more and more and the more we reply, the longer they become. And how many typos and way off auto corrects from my iPhone are in this that I can't bother to reread and fix, haha. But ya, that's your stand and this is mine. So now it's time I move on for this content, cuz now THIS has changed. Haha.

Hardware
10th Jul 2016, 16:44
So there is really NO solution for individual purchase ? I will try to contact Steam Support.

I preorder the game, i play since the beginning (almost 200 hours !), I make speedrun videos of this game, I really enjoy it and SquareEnix with their ****ty business model, prevents me from playing summer episode ? I was the first to defend the episodic model but now I'm really disappointed... I will miss elusives targets and level rewards, shame on you !

Please IOI, tell me there is a solution ? I can buy the whole game (full exp) if you want (steam doesn't allow the purchase),
I would like so much to play the summer bonus episode :(

BlueSpider99
10th Jul 2016, 18:08
Ok you're not understanding me when I say "follow the script." What I mean is follow how it originally was and CONTINUE to do so. So that means that if this bonus content never came out, you wouldn't be upset cuz there's no content there to be upset about. So if you change your perspective and pretend it doesn't exist, then you're none the wiser and much happier cuz that content isn't there. So you're just waiting for the next episode.

On that, delays do happen. I'm actually happy that games get delayed if they need it rather than being unpolished then using is gamers to be test rats and debug the game for them on the go while we all get a broken game. I'm not sure if you were aware, but in assassins creed unity, the game was broken on release and nobody could hardly play. The frame rate was dropping to below 10 at times and would hardly hold consistently enough to not bother you. It was like that for months. So I decided to sell the game and come back when the game was fixed. It took almost a year to get them to patch it and finally have a playable game.


Now on the price of the game. First, there's 6 missions in total, Not 7, cuz you counted 7. When you buy episodically, you get Paris in the intro pack. That's 1. Then there's 5 more, not 6. All the missions are Paris, Italy, Morocco, USA, Thailand and Japan. Maybe it's a different price where you are, but I'm in Canada and the full experience is $69.99. So if you bought the intro pack, it is $17.99. Then each episode was gonna be $10 each. And so 5 episodes X $10 each is $50, + 17.99 into pack = 67.99. Which is cheaper tha buying the full game. But now prices changed and also plans changed. And that's good cuz the episodic buyers should not have a am cheaper game than the full game buyers.

On the division, well if it changes then there you go, just further proves my point that 'things change' and that's just how things are. But you make it sound like they are not allowed to change things. Things allowed to change cuz nobody really knows how things will turn out during development time. Some people make it sound cuz the episode isn't out that they are doing it while lying. Well maybe they are doing it cuz things from the other episodes that need fixing are being fixed, like blood decals. Or maybe they are polishing up the game even more so there's less frame rate issues like in Italy when you're near the virus and even so locked at 30fps, not unlocked where it could get unstable.

EDIT: I didn't read ALL of your links before typing and submitting this but here's where you're still mistaken. The first link you gave isn't the expansions. They are just new content. Underground just came out and has NOT for ps4. Will be on aug 2. And the other Expansion packs have yet to come. Patch updates and little content updates don't count as what I'm talking about. Look at the names of the packs in my link then look at the names of the dlcs in your links. They don't match. Cuz the ones in yours are not expansion packs which I was talking about. Conflict isn't one of the expansion packs. That's why all platforms have it. Underground is and ps4 doesn't have it now as I stated originally.

Let's look at Arkham Knight for a sec. A lot of people skipped on the season pass based on the price and he amount of content that was included for it. Many who skipped on it said they would only buy the things they wanted to save money. Bu then the community started an outcry about the content. And so rocksteady took that feedback and started to make new content. Even more content that was never announced. It was to give more to the gamers. So suddenly people were complaining that they skipped the season pass but now all the new material coming would cost them more than buying the season pass and they got upset. Well again, things change. Rocksteady make their fans happy by giving them what they were requesting. More batman skins. More Batmobile skins. More other characters in the game skins. An extra side episode or 2. Again, things changed on community feedback. It was never initially announced but out came new content and non season pass owners were upset.

And yes fine print is a hassle, but it's what YOU are agreeing on. Once you agree on it, you can't say it's something they shouldn't do. Well maybe ya, they shouldn't do it, but again, YOU'RE AGREEING to it. If you don't agree with it, then don't sign anything and go elsewhere. You can't agree with something and then say it's not fair or its wrong. Sure you may be right, but again, you agreed to that so the mistake is on you, not them. So ya, morally it may not be the best approach, but in the eye of the law, it's a technicality and so they are right. So don't put your signature where you don't believe in putting in there.

So when it comes to technicalities, this bonus content isn't AN EPISODE. So technically, episodic buyers shouldn't get access to it, at all.
They chose to go the episodes way so let them ONLY get episodes.

It's just that people choose to make their decisions, and when they don't get what they are expecting, they cry. But as over said a million times, things change. Games get delayed. New material is added. Other material might need to be removed or never made. That's how it is when things are created. Other ideas come along and alter the path.

I just don't get how anyone can say they deserve this content at the same time as the full game buyers? I reiterate, This isn't an episode. Episode buyers bought the game with episodes. And the difference between you and I are perspective, cuz we both are episodic buyers. Well not me anymore, but initially I was going to be. I bought the intro pack to buy the episodes when they released but since the games hit damage was off, I decided to wait to buy Italy. Now finally after Morocco came out, the hit damage is fixed. Head shots with the silencer is a kill, even from a good distance. So after seeing that in gameplay, I decided to skip the episode buys and go right to the upgrade pack. And this was all before I knew anything about the bonus content.

Anyways, I'm done replying to you. Not because I don't want to talk with you, but because we are typing more and more and the more we reply, the longer they become. And how many typos and way off auto corrects from my iPhone are in this that I can't bother to reread and fix, haha. But ya, that's your stand and this is mine. So now it's time I move on for this content, cuz now THIS has changed. Haha.

Ill give one more response so we stop cluttering the page. I'll try to keep it rather short.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/236870/ - States 2-7 episodes with "Number 1" being the intro pack aka Paris and the Training missions. Unless steam is completely wrong which is the main platform they sell the game on then I'm all ears.

So yes they scrapped the idea (to a degree in the Divison now PC and Xbox exclusive and PS4 gets delayed) because people complained about it. You're one of the few people I've seen defending this game. If you go on Reddit and even the Steam forums the general consensus is it's a completely stupid decision. So yes both games changed but one was for the better towards the community and the other isn't (most FE are even upset because it's just not a good business decision)

I'm probably gonna end up buying it anyways down the road because I love the game-play and flow of this game. It just boggles my mind on why IO would do this. Some people can't see past flaws and they might lose money because of it. I'm holding onto hope for a season 2 as well but steam reviews are on the iffy end and some reviews that aren't really true are warding off customers bundled with some bad decisions possibly losing some money it's a little of a stretch now.

Anyways that's my final response. Glad we actually had a conversation on the Internet that didn't lead to insults. We both have differing opinions which is completely fine. I just don't want to see this game fail (or not get a season 2) because It's actually a very well made game and insanely fun. It's so close to being something great but some decisions have pulled it a little of the mark.

Edit (for all posts): I'm actually wrong to some degree and you're right to a degree. It is Underground and Survival marking the Xbox Exclusive but Underground just came out and released on Xbox and PC at the same time with half the content being added to PS4 and the other half coming a month later. So actually it's Xbox and PC exclusive and PS4 gets screwed over to a degree. So I think we're both wrong to a certain degree me of being a bit more wrong. I got mixed up because the first 2 are actually expansions just free and the rest aren't. Apparently I need to learn to read better.

Hardware
11th Jul 2016, 14:31
So there is really NO solution for individual purchase ? I will try to contact Steam Support.

I preorder the game, i play since the beginning (almost 200 hours !), I make speedrun videos of this game, I really enjoy it and SquareEnix with their ****ty business model, prevents me from playing summer episode ? I was the first to defend the episodic model but now I'm really disappointed... I will miss elusives targets and level rewards, shame on you !

Please IOI, tell me there is a solution ? I can buy the whole game (full exp) if you want (steam doesn't allow the purchase),
I would like so much to play the summer bonus episode :(

Problem solved with help of Steam support \o/

kaneten
18th Jul 2016, 04:39
People buying episode-by-episode are ultimately paying $5 more than those who bought the full experience if they get all of the episodes, and they miss out on content.

They promised no DLC, so instead of giving us DLC, they do something worse: locking content behind an upgrade pack that requires you buy the episodes again, or wait until "later in the season". Don't forget that this is supposed to be a LIVE EXPERIENCE, too.

There was nothing to suggest that buying episode-by-episode would result in missing out on fairly substantial additions to the game. Feels like they're saying "screw you" to me as an episode-by-episode buyer.

Immadummee
19th Jul 2016, 11:36
People buying episode-by-episode are ultimately paying $5 more than those who bought the full experience if they get all of the episodes, and they miss out on content.

They promised no DLC, so instead of giving us DLC, they do something worse: locking content behind an upgrade pack that requires you buy the episodes again, or wait until "later in the season". Don't forget that this is supposed to be a LIVE EXPERIENCE, too.

There was nothing to suggest that buying episode-by-episode would result in missing out on fairly substantial additions to the game. Feels like they're saying "screw you" to me as an episode-by-episode buyer.


What I don't get is why would anyone have full intention to buy "episode after episode" but not buy the full game knowing you'll save money? O.o

If you wanted to test out the game, that's what the intro pack was for. The yacht, base and paris is more than enough to get a feel for the game, so why didn't you guys get the upgrade pack? That's what I did. I waited until certain things were fixed to get the upgrade pack. I just sat on the intro packs for months until I was satisfied with things fixed.

So if you got excited for the intro pack, why bother with episode after episode. It's not like you're late to the party and need to catch up. Like I said, the intro pack will give you the feel for the game and that's more than enough to see if you're gonna get the game or not.

Lawrax
19th Jul 2016, 12:24
First of all they should make all the content available for purchase for everyone. I supported the episodic structure and didn't spend all the cash upfront. The game hasn't been perfect, in Paris on a level 5 escalation I had 1 minute left to hide a body, but the body was stuck in the doorway as I was dragging it and I failed.

Ldrofone
19th Jul 2016, 22:42
Problem solved with help of Steam support \o/

What did you do? I opened a ticket two days ago and haven't heard anything...

Ldrofone
19th Jul 2016, 23:25
What I don't get is why would anyone have full intention to buy "episode after episode" but not buy the full game knowing you'll save money? O.o

If you wanted to test out the game, that's what the intro pack was for. The yacht, base and paris is more than enough to get a feel for the game, so why didn't you guys get the upgrade pack? That's what I did. I waited until certain things were fixed to get the upgrade pack. I just sat on the intro packs for months until I was satisfied with things fixed.

So if you got excited for the intro pack, why bother with episode after episode. It's not like you're late to the party and need to catch up. Like I said, the intro pack will give you the feel for the game and that's more than enough to see if you're gonna get the game or not.

You are more than welcome to be baffled by the choices that other people make. Your solution, though you may think otherwise, is not valid in any way. "Welp, you shoulda bought the full experience... That right there woulda solved all yur problems..." And my personal favorite, "Why don't you just pretend like there isn't any new content, then you won't be sad about it! QQ nerds!" (I added that last part myself. I think it fits.)

You are defending a system that is hopelessly flawed. In the beginning we were enticed into purchasing an essentially unfinished product by a AAA developer. Early Access, bro, as the initial release was quite buggy. (Still fun as hell) They intrigued us with the Episodic Principle. I for one, wanted to give it a try as I've been a long time supporter of Early Access. What we were promised in the beginning was that the Pilot episode would cost us $15 and each subsequent episode would be $10. That was it. Nothing on Bonus episodes or them costing extra for those who chose to ride the Episodic Wave out.

I LOVE this wave! (And so does my wife!) I don't have to spend $60 on a new game, instead only $10, and I automatically get another 40+ hours out of each new episode! That **** is DOPE! Did I know that I was going to be spending an additional $15 in the end. Duh, I'm not a moron... But I don't mind. It does burn me a LITTLE, that even though we (We being the episodic variety of buyers) are already paying more in the end for the full title, are also going to have to purchase the bonus episodes. This is something that was never mentioned, I WOULD have re-thought my purchasing choice if I had known about this content. But still, whatever, right? It's Hitman and it's fun as hell!

Then the announcement that we (episodic buyers) not only have to purchase the new content but we have to wait... *shakes head* That's BS. So, I did what many people have tried to do, purchase the ******* full experience upgrade pack bonanza what-ever-the-hell-it's-called-thingy-ma-bob-dashed-words-are-fun combo from steam. Steam won't let you. Even if I wanted to spend the $50 to buy the upgrade pack that includes episodes 2-7 when I already own 1-3, Steam won't let you.

I've opened a ticket with them and I have yet to hear from them...

So just stop Immadummee. Just stop. You offer nothing. Your defense of IO is very weak, and even though you are very cordial, you are insulting. Your intelligence or foresight or whatever you want to call it, that you exhibited, when you made the move to buy the upgrade pack offers no help to those that chose to enjoy the pros of being episodic bros. (That was totally an accident.)

Unless you're Captain Hindsight, then I apologize. Please, do continue the good work of the Lord. Otherwise, just stop, you're not winning the internet.

Immadummee
20th Jul 2016, 00:16
You are more than welcome to be baffled by the choices that other people make. Your solution, though you may think otherwise, is not valid in any way. "Welp, you shoulda bought the full experience... That right there woulda solved all yur problems..." And my personal favorite, "Why don't you just pretend like there isn't any new content, then you won't be sad about it! QQ nerds!" (I added that last part myself. I think it fits.)

You are defending a system that is hopelessly flawed. In the beginning we were enticed into purchasing an essentially unfinished product by a AAA developer. Early Access, bro, as the initial release was quite buggy. (Still fun as hell) They intrigued us with the Episodic Principle. I for one, wanted to give it a try as I've been a long time supporter of Early Access. What we were promised in the beginning was that the Pilot episode would cost us $15 and each subsequent episode would be $10. That was it. Nothing on Bonus episodes or them costing extra for those who chose to ride the Episodic Wave out.

I LOVE this wave! (And so does my wife!) I don't have to spend $60 on a new game, instead only $10, and I automatically get another 40+ hours out of each new episode! That **** is DOPE! Did I know that I was going to be spending an additional $15 in the end. Duh, I'm not a moron... But I don't mind. It does burn me a LITTLE, that even though we (We being the episodic variety of buyers) are already paying more in the end for the full title, are also going to have to purchase the bonus episodes. This is something that was never mentioned, I WOULD have re-thought my purchasing choice if I had known about this content. But still, whatever, right? It's Hitman and it's fun as hell!

Then the announcement that we (episodic buyers) not only have to purchase the new content but we have to wait... *shakes head* That's BS. So, I did what many people have tried to do, purchase the ******* full experience upgrade pack bonanza what-ever-the-hell-it's-called-thingy-ma-bob-dashed-words-are-fun combo from steam. Steam won't let you. Even if I wanted to spend the $50 to buy the upgrade pack that includes episodes 2-7 when I already own 1-3, Steam won't let you.

I've opened a ticket with them and I have yet to hear from them...

So just stop Immadummee. Just stop. You offer nothing. Your defense of IO is very weak, and even though you are very cordial, you are insulting. Your intelligence or foresight or whatever you want to call it, that you exhibited, when you made the move to buy the upgrade pack offers no help to those that chose to enjoy the pros of being episodic bros. (That was totally an accident.)

Unless you're Captain Hindsight, then I apologize. Please, do continue the good work of the Lord. Otherwise, just stop, you're not winning the internet.

Rise of the Tomb Raider was exclusive to Xbox and PC 1 year before ps4. The division get DLC content on Xbox and PC 1 month before ps4. It's just a little waiting and not the end of the world. So I repeat by quote:


Rise of the Tomb Raider was exclusive to Xbox and PC 1 year before ps4. The division get DLC content on Xbox and PC 1 month before ps4. It's just a little waiting and not the end of the world.

kaneten
20th Jul 2016, 04:24
What I don't get is why would anyone have full intention to buy "episode after episode" but not buy the full game knowing you'll save money? O.o

Good thing that purchasers' reasoning is completely irrelevant here, then. It doesn't matter why we chose to buy it this way; there was nothing to imply we would miss out on a large amount of content on its release in a "live" game. If it were made clear to us that a massive addition would be exclusive to Full/Upgrade buyers, it would be quite different, but that isn't the case.

I'm sure there's lots of different reasons why people bought the game in different ways. None of them change the fact that episodic buyers are being left behind here.

Swixel
20th Jul 2016, 05:23
Good thing that purchasers' reasoning is completely irrelevant here, then. It doesn't matter why we chose to buy it this way; there was nothing to imply we would miss out on a large amount of content on its release in a "live" game. If it were made clear to us that a massive addition would be exclusive to Full/Upgrade buyers, it would be quite different, but that isn't the case.

It's already been stated that the Elusive Target content for these maps/missions won't drop until it's available for everyone. You're getting delayed, not flat out denied content. There are various reasons as to why it happens, and it's been looked at on the various Hitman forums in significant depth.

As someone who has it I'll say this: while it's fun for a good half an hour per map, it's not like it's a full episode release like the others. Each mission has its own limitations, and once you solve the puzzle the replayability of each mission is fairly limited (mostly due to size and AI changes). I'm sure I'll revisit it, but it's not like Sapienza that I absolutely had to complete, but rather more like an Escalation or Featured Contract: I could honestly take or leave large parts of the challenges here.

CnnrYng1
20th Jul 2016, 08:21
It makes me so mad that they release an episode game and then penalise buyers who choose to go the episodic route...
I'd be less mad if they updated the upgrade pack for a mid-season upgrade. Ie. Pay now to get USA, Japan and Thailand and anything in the future they release. as opposed to £36 for future episodes but also essentially paying for Sapienza and Marrakech again

pleezee
20th Jul 2016, 12:54
It's seriously the dumbest thing ever, there is no reason why these summer bonus missions cannot be released for episodic purchase immediately, with a update later to include the third mission.

For the publisher/developer, and against the consumer episodic purchases are better because they bring in more money vs. buying the whole thing at a discount, given the company does not go bankrupt or give reason for purchasers to stop purchasing.

For the consumer, and against the publisher episodic purchases are better because when the developers pulls this kind of crap, where in the only option to buy something is to fork over redundant money for levels already purchased you can just forget it, and spend your money more wisely on a product that isn't looking to completely capitalize on confusion.

IO, you're screwing your episodic game up with this nonsense. You shouldn't be further rewarding those who payed for all episodes at a discount, and you shouldn't even ethically allow purchase of the upgrade pack when missions were purchased past the first one.

Immadummee
20th Jul 2016, 13:18
Good thing that purchasers' reasoning is completely irrelevant here, then. It doesn't matter why we chose to buy it this way; there was nothing to imply we would miss out on a large amount of content on its release in a "live" game. If it were made clear to us that a massive addition would be exclusive to Full/Upgrade buyers, it would be quite different, but that isn't the case.

I'm sure there's lots of different reasons why people bought the game in different ways. None of them change the fact that episodic buyers are being left behind here.

Left behind, yes. Denying content, no. They already stated, as i read from another poster, that no elusive targets will be released on these maps until these missions are available to everyone. It's just a little waiting period. Not the end of the world.

So I'll repeat by quote:


Rise of the Tomb Raider was exclusive to Xbox and PC 1 year before ps4. The division get DLC content on Xbox and PC 1 month before ps4. It's just a little waiting and not the end of the world.

pleezee
20th Jul 2016, 14:03
Immadummee, i think your vastly misunderstanding things.

If this is supposed to be a "perk" for those who outright purchased all episodes of hitman at a discount, then there should have been a clear statement that those who would purchase the full game episodically (for the full price per episode). These people are now put at a severe disadvantage when it comes to releasing episodic content, which makes no sense. Whats unethical is that for those whom have paid for any episodic mission/location past paris, Can only access the bonus misssions (right-now) by effectively needing to pay for said levels again. Further, and to reiterate, there was no such disclosure made by IO.

I think what you are misunderstanding is that this decision in offering the levels in a episodic manor is entirely irrelevant to timed console exclusive, pre-order bonuses, season pass or whatever else. The only relevant topics are that of other episodic games, not DLC expansions to games that have been released in full.
If you are having a hard time understanding why people would find this issue to be frustrating, imagine that they were to have a "perk" mission set for those who purchased every level episodically. Where this small little bonus mission would allow those who purchased the full game at a discount means to be played if they either wait an unspecified amount of time or re-purchase each level separately. You would not expect that or the reverse of that to happen.

kaneten
21st Jul 2016, 04:58
You're getting delayed, not flat out denied content.

And that's better because...? Sorry, but having them turn around and say "Oh, don't worry, we'll let you buy this 'bonus' content later" doesn't exactly undo leaving the episodic buyers behind, lol.


Left behind, yes. Denying content, no. They already stated, as i read from another poster, that no elusive targets will be released on these maps until these missions are available to everyone. It's just a little waiting period. Not the end of the world.

So I'll repeat by quote:

I'm going to do the same and quote things I've already said as a pretty important part of the point I'm making seems to be getting missed:


They promised no DLC, so instead of giving us DLC, they do something worse: locking content behind an upgrade pack that requires you buy the episodes again, or wait until "later in the season". Don't forget that this is supposed to be a LIVE EXPERIENCE, too.



It doesn't matter why we chose to buy it this way; there was nothing to imply we would miss out on a large amount of content on its release in a "live" game.

It's not the end of the world, but it's the end of it being a "live" game for episodic buyers. Elusive targets on these levels are a relatively small addition compared to the massively re-worked maps, new missions, etc. We'll be getting the content on an unspecified date with no word on the next proper episode release -- while Full/Upgrade buyers are getting a pretty decent chunk of new content, episodic buyers are left with nothing new for an unspecified amount of time.

CnnrYng1
21st Jul 2016, 08:52
The reason people are mad is that they made an EPISODIC game but are releasing content in a way that benefits people who chose not to buy EPISODICALLY, and people who paid in episodes are being made to wait.

Don't forget there's supposed to be an episode a month and this months episode is the "bonus" round, meaning no new episode until late August for everyone else (going by past release dates)

Swixel
21st Jul 2016, 09:06
Don't forget there's supposed to be an episode a month and this months episode is the "bonus" round, meaning no new episode until late August for everyone else (going by past release dates)

Care to find a source on that? People keep saying it as if "in the following months" implies monthly, and not "in the months that follow".

Driber
21st Jul 2016, 11:13
Other games with season passes do things as well. The division got all their DLC content for Xbox one users 1 month before PC and ps4. Rise of the Tomb raider came out 1 year on Xbox one before ps4 (if it's coming at all). Arkham knight got exclusive content that Xbox one will never get. All this info from these teams were done the same. Not from the start. Things change. Delays happen. New idea pop up and they add it.

The year long wait for the PS4 release of ROTTR was communicated before launch on xbox, though.


Rise of the Tomb Raider was exclusive to Xbox and PC 1 year before ps4. The division get DLC content on Xbox and PC 1 month before ps4. It's just a little waiting and not the end of the world. So I repeat by quote:

The year long exclusivity window of ROTTR is something that is universally hated by TR fans, regardless what platform they play on. Crystal's deal with MS has drove a huge wedge in the community and did great damage to it. It has spoiled the release of the game for a lot of fans and it's put many folks off from celebrating TR's 20 year anniversary this year. IMO it was an all around bad move, both for the company and the fans. So I don't really see how using ROTTR as an example here is supposed to be something good.

Immadummee
21st Jul 2016, 14:01
The year long wait for the PS4 release of ROTTR was communicated before launch on xbox, though.



The year long exclusivity window of ROTTR is something that is universally hated by TR fans, regardless what platform they play on. Crystal's deal with MS has drove a huge wedge in the community and did great damage to it. It has spoiled the release of the game for a lot of fans and it's put many folks off from celebrating TR's 20 year anniversary this year. IMO it was an all around bad move, both for the company and the fans. So I don't really see how using ROTTR as an example here is supposed to be something good.


I never said it was something good, my point is content isn't being denied, just delayed. Even though I was highly anticipating ROTTR on ps4, I didn't cry like a baby that I didn't get it day 1 like Xbox and PC. It is what it is and I can wait. If I was an episodic buyer, I'd do the same. If wait for the summer bonus content. I did he same with the upgrade pack. I waited to buy it until the hit damage was fixed or at leas tweaked to a more realistic style. And it did, but much after Sapienza and Marrakesh was released. So I missed out on some good elusive targets.

But you don't need to explain things to me, I get it. It's just I use a different type of logic than most. Maybe because I see the other perspective, not just mine, as what majority of consumers do. It's all about the "me, myself and I" attitude. Why would any company not want more money and make fans happy? They can't please everyone. There will always be haters and people upset in everything.

Moral of the story? Patience is a virtue.

Driber
21st Jul 2016, 20:04
I never said it was something good, my point is content isn't being denied, just delayed. Even though I was highly anticipating ROTTR on ps4, I didn't cry like a baby that I didn't get it day 1 like Xbox and PC. It is what it is and I can wait. If I was an episodic buyer, I'd do the same. If wait for the summer bonus content. I did he same with the upgrade pack. I waited to buy it until the hit damage was fixed or at leas tweaked to a more realistic style. And it did, but much after Sapienza and Marrakesh was released. So I missed out on some good elusive targets.

But you don't need to explain things to me, I get it. It's just I use a different type of logic than most. Maybe because I see the other perspective, not just mine, as what majority of consumers do. It's all about the "me, myself and I" attitude. Why would any company not want more money and make fans happy? They can't please everyone. There will always be haters and people upset in everything.

Moral of the story? Patience is a virtue.

So everyone who voices any criticism whatsoever about the release model is "crying like a baby"?

jimbianco
21st Jul 2016, 21:01
So everyone who voices any criticism whatsoever about the release model is "crying like a baby"?

yeah, same on other forum, which is why I left there. Anyone who critiques anything about the game eventually will either be a crybaby or a troll, yet these same people praise IOI for the changes for the better that the "crybabies" and "trolls" helped bring about. Do you honestly think we would have a holster animation, longer elusive target time limits, and the deletion of those stupid camo weapons if not for us "crybabies" crying about not having them?

Driber
21st Jul 2016, 21:28
Yeah there's definitely a distinction to be made between trolls/antagonists/entitled children who go around crapping on everything / accusing the devs left and right about "lying" and "scamming players" etc, and actual legitimate grievances / constructive criticism.

I can see how people feel like some are trying to shove everyone into the former category. And that's just false.

Immadummee
22nd Jul 2016, 02:02
So everyone who voices any criticism whatsoever about the release model is "crying like a baby"?

There's nothing wrong with criticizing the game, I've done it myself. I said do it THE RIGHT WAY. Jim here has called out IOI/SE as evil scammers or being swindled. How is that good in any way? O.o


yeah, same on other forum, which is why I left there. Anyone who critiques anything about the game eventually will either be a crybaby or a troll, yet these same people praise IOI for the changes for the better that the "crybabies" and "trolls" helped bring about. Do you honestly think we would have a holster animation, longer elusive target time limits, and the deletion of those stupid camo weapons if not for us "crybabies" crying about not having them?

Where did we get longer elusive targets? Busey doesn't count cuz it's a special case. And yet again, CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM IS FINE. Calling them evil and swindled by them isn't.

Swixel
22nd Jul 2016, 02:34
Where did we get longer elusive targets? Busey doesn't count cuz it's a special case. And yet again, CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM IS FINE. Calling them evil and swindled by them isn't.

We went from 48 hours to 72 after the first or second target (I can't remember which).

---

jimbianco and various others are probably unaware of how much pain SE and IO are going through trying to ship the game on three platforms at the same time. If they were playing to the strengths of each platforms Steam (minimally) would have Ep7/Bonus available for purchase (with a later update bringing in the last component).

Xbox and PSN bring their own issues and solutions (so does Steam, actually), some of which you can find out if you actually contact them -- of course if you actually want meaningful information (beyond the tidbits already leaked by people violating their NDAs or skirting the edges of them) you'll likely need to sign an NDA (and give them enough reason/verification to have that happen). (There is enough information leaked to piece things together, but if you have serious trust issues contact them as a prospective indie developer.)

I'll raise the point once here, and only this once, because I'm tired of pointing out logic to people who are too angry to see it: do you genuinely believe, that given a choice, IO and/or SE would forgo the money of episodic purchasers unless they couldn't find a way around it?

Here's the logic, broken down for easy consumption:

IO and/or SE are performing a "universal" release for content as it drops (give or take a few hours for one or two platforms, which is easily forgiven);
IO and SE are more likely to get money from episodic buyers by not alienating them and calling the bonus what it is (the seventh episode -- which is what it was outed as during E3);
If IO and SE are under NDAs they cannot talk about platform release information (at least three NDAs, one for each platform -- more likely more than one for at least one of them);
There are leaks everywhere about PSN (and a few about Xbox), suggesting limitations; OR if you have serious trust issues you can contact the PSN or Xbox developer programs as a prospective indie developer requesting platform limitations and explanations (enjoy the NDA and verification process if they take you seriously enough to give you information). Occasionally you will get a decent enough member of one of the teams to give you minimal information without an NDA being required, though in my experience they typically only do this if you work in middleware development (and you typically have to demonstrate your middleware exists and can be ported);
Given the NDAs the people who could explain it are under they can only point to open/released/leaked information and routes to get the information (IO and/or SE are unlikely to even do that);
Splitting the bonus episode into two releases gets them a "free" patch (based on the leaks patches cost on certain platforms), so if it was pre-scheduled to happen now and we needed a patch (we did) then pushing it now not only demonstrates on-going development but gets a patch out there. (There is also one leak, some time ago, which suggested re-scheduling a release on one of the console platforms could be costly, though given the source of that leak most people dismiss it.)


Further hints for the lost/confused:

Steam developers and publishers regularly move things around and muck around with release content;
Xbox has been refunding episodes 2 and 3 so people can buy the upgrade pack (Steam hasn't, PSN hasn't) -- see the reddit for people reporting it;
PSN developers have leaked a lot of information over the years suggesting this is the likely source of part of the issue;
Xbox has its own issues/policies, which are likely to compound on PSN network issues/policies (but Xbox are giving people a workaround if you contact support).


If you want answers then ask the platforms what their policies are on changing DLC content, updating content (i.e. repackaging previously scheduled DLC into smaller units), and so on. If you want to just complain then I can't help you. If you can't be bothered to contact the consoles, and you want to continue complaining, I don't know what to tell you beyond this: if it is a platform release issue then IO/SE can't talk about it (save maybe saying "we are bound by a non-disclosure agreement" -- possibly not even outing the platform); if it isn't then you'll find out fairly easily by talking to the offending network.

I really don't want to single out that one platform, but there are any number of horror stories from indie developers who were going to ship a PS3 or PS4 version of a game only to find out the restrictions placed on them were too great. On the one hand the notion of perfectly engineering content the first time is appealing, but in this day and age, even with a single hardware/platform target it doesn't happen often.

Of course we could just universally demand a level of transparency on this stuff so developers could say "due to our release model we are unable to ship the content out, we goofed in our timeline and aren't currently happy with the state of the last bit, and due to one of the platforms and issues in the workaround from another, we'll only be able to partially release the content to users with access type X, but not Y". But getting gamers together in a cross-platform way is like herding cats -- unless they're there to complain or be fed (metaphorically get a release or update), it's not going to happen. (This "PC/PS/Xbox(/etc.) master race" nonsense was never healthy.)

jimbianco
22nd Jul 2016, 04:01
Where did we get longer elusive targets? Busey doesn't count cuz it's a special case. And yet again, CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM IS FINE. Calling them evil and swindled by them isn't.

they were originally only 48 hours, and IOI "swore" that wouldn't be changed. Well people complained that they were missing them, so they upped the hours to 72, or at E3 it was 58 or something like that. I still think all the complaining about elusives not being replayable later on will be reversed.... someday.