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View Full Version : Timed elusive targets is a terrible feature!



redorblue89
13th Jun 2016, 08:25
Who's idea was it to have a time limit on when you can even attempt them!? What benefit does that time limit give, to the developers or the player? Is it to prove some kind of loyalty to the game that you will keep up to date enough that you know when the elusive targets are even happening and also prioritise the game and make sure you are free for a few hours in the given window.

People have kids, they have school/university/jobs, work deadlines, vacations, relatives/friends visiting, illness, etc. Hell, they might not feel like playing hitman in that particualr window the developers are enforcing. Quickest way to get a lot of people hating your game is to force completionists to play your game when they don't feel like playing it.

I'm quite busy with work and family lately, I was away for one of the weekends. I've missed a couple now. Why on earth would they not release them with no timer, let them build up in my backlog of contracts and whenever I CHOOSE to come back to the game I can set aside a nice full weekend of new hitman gaming AT MY LEISURE!

I get that with the elusive targets you're supposed to feel like someone is giving you a contract and you are actually a hitman. Well a timer on the level is the laziest way they could have achieved this. I would rather no timer, begin the contract whenever you want, you get one shot, cannot restart/retry. The fact that you can restart the mission destroys the whole "elusive target" thing anyway, so all we're left with is a timer to make this any different from a regular contract.

RW_Slick
13th Jun 2016, 08:59
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/bungie/images/8/89/Waaahmbulance.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090424220046

Don't worry, it will be here soon!

redorblue89
13th Jun 2016, 10:20
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/bungie/images/8/89/Waaahmbulance.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090424220046

Don't worry, it will be here soon!

Sweet, I'll just hold tight then :rasp:

Driber
13th Jun 2016, 10:44
I guess the devs wanted to try something new. Like you said, by using a real world time limit it's simulating the feeling of you being the hitman and someone giving you a contract. If it was just a matter of putting an in-game time limit on a level it's no different than any ordinary time trial challenge which we've already seen implemented in a million other games.

I get that the fact that you can restart the level kinda destroys part of the experience, but it's still better than losing the challenge due to connection problems, which is an unfortunate reality of the internet. I'm sure people would be way more angry if a technical glitch costs them their chance of completing the challenge. I know I would.

Apart from those points, I completely sympathize, redorblue89. If Hitman is your fav game then missing out due to real world responsibilities must suck :(

CnnrYng1
13th Jun 2016, 10:57
The whole "real world" thing is a nice concept but the reality is that we aren't assassins, we're people who paid money for a game that have jobs and other commitments.

They should change it so that the elusive target is there indefinitely until we accept the mission - then get one chance only to finish it as it is now


it's no different than any ordinary time trial challenge which we've already seen implemented in a million other games.

It's actually very different because a million other games don't make their content expire after 48 hours

Puiu13
13th Jun 2016, 11:39
Who's idea was it to have a time limit on when you can even attempt them!? What benefit does that time limit give, to the developers or the player? Is it to prove some kind of loyalty to the game that you will keep up to date enough that you know when the elusive targets are even happening and also prioritise the game and make sure you are free for a few hours in the given window.

People have kids, they have school/university/jobs, work deadlines, vacations, relatives/friends visiting, illness, etc. Hell, they might not feel like playing hitman in that particualr window the developers are enforcing. Quickest way to get a lot of people hating your game is to force completionists to play your game when they don't feel like playing it.

I'm quite busy with work and family lately, I was away for one of the weekends. I've missed a couple now. Why on earth would they not release them with no timer, let them build up in my backlog of contracts and whenever I CHOOSE to come back to the game I can set aside a nice full weekend of new hitman gaming AT MY LEISURE!

I get that with the elusive targets you're supposed to feel like someone is giving you a contract and you are actually a hitman. Well a timer on the level is the laziest way they could have achieved this. I would rather no timer, begin the contract whenever you want, you get one shot, cannot restart/retry. The fact that you can restart the mission destroys the whole "elusive target" thing anyway, so all we're left with is a timer to make this any different from a regular contract.
I can't agree more.

I get that the fact that you can restart the level kinda destroys part of the experience.
I swear i had no idea that i can restart the first two elusive target and i completed them in my first run and let me tell you they were so much more fun than the last one.

If Hitman is your fav game then missing out due to real world responsibilities must suck :(
Fortunately i've completed all so far, but yes, for a Hitman fan like me it really suck's missing one ET.


They should change it so that the elusive target is there indefinitely until we accept the mission - then get one chance only to finish it as it is now
That's not a bad idea at all.

YOBA_Smile
13th Jun 2016, 12:09
Completely agree with topic starter. I'm 27 y.o. and don't have much time to play too, but still I would like to get all the Hitman experience. And I suppose Hitman franchise due to its age has a huge adult fanbase, so this issue is actually urgent.

Kolnikov
13th Jun 2016, 14:06
Yeah, I'm really not a fan of the timed element. So far I've done 3 elusives, got 3 Silent Assassins, and I'm looking forward to getting a 4th. After that, I go on holiday, away from my console. Which means - assuming I don't screw up The Sensation - my winning streak will end, not because I failed at the game, but because I succeeded at having an adult life.

RW_Slick
13th Jun 2016, 14:07
My only sympathy with the OP is that they should take place on weekends. I have yet to miss an ET, but that could change in the future. I am 39, work a full time job, family, take care of an ailing parent and I work for a website as a game reviewer. You'd be surprised how difficult it can be to game when you work with games. When I know an ET is coming, I lay out an hour, usually late at night, to take care of them.

Unless you have babies, there is time. I know cats with small children that don't miss ETs. If you really have that little time to game then stop worrying about ETs because Io is not going to change this, nor should they.

jimbianco
13th Jun 2016, 18:26
there is always time. These things, (if you want them to), can take as little as 10 minutes. They are not that difficult, especially with restart. In fact , I think they are way overrated.

Puiu13
13th Jun 2016, 21:16
Unless you have babies, there is time.


there is always time.

Both of you are wrong, my job requires me to travel a lot , and i mean a lot , so most likely i will miss a few ET. Maybe for you guys this is not a big deal but for me as i said before that really sucks.



nor should they

May i ask why?

NastyNabz
13th Jun 2016, 23:08
I love hitman and the elusive target feature but you guys can get rid of the whole "live" feature if you wanted to and we all know you can. So please listen to the fans and let us play ET when we want with a time limit that starts once we begin the mission. It would make us ( the fans ) really grateful! I myself have to travel a lot which means i cannot take my ps4 with me everywhere I go. Im going Dubai at the end of next week for an entire month or longer and i know for a fact I would be really p****d off if you decided to release another live limited time only ET etc as I would miss out on what I paid for due to having a life. We're not asking you for too much just let us play ET without the whole LIVE feature please! You can still include the time limit and one chance only but let us enjoy it when we're actually free to relax and play the game which we paid for. Once again please get rid of the LIVE feature!

RW_Slick
14th Jun 2016, 02:41
Both of you are wrong, my job requires me to travel a lot , and i mean a lot , so most likely i will miss a few ET. Maybe for you guys this is not a big deal but for me as i said before that really sucks.




May i ask why?

Of course you may! :)
The reason why I say they shouldn't is because this is how they made their game. Elusive Targets are not broken; there is nothing to fix. The simple fact is that there is nothing in this world that everyone likes - there will be people that do not like this. Changing everything just because people are asking you to is counterproductive.

It's like with the recent season finale of The Walking Dead TV show where people were "demanding" to know who Negan hit.

OR WHAT?

You are still going to watch the show. People are too entitled these days. Imagine if we had amazing graphics and capabilities back in the NES days and HITMAN were a game for that console.

1. You would not even have Elusive Targets or any extras.
2. Anything you do not like about the game, TOUGH TITTY! It would not be a question of whether Io wanted to change it for you or not, it would be impossible because you cannot update a cartridge.

If you do not like the framework of Elusive Targets, that is 100% fine. You are entitled to your opinion just like I am. Now get over it.

KrazySniper
14th Jun 2016, 05:28
I think Elusive Targets should be replayable. The developers could design them so your first attempt is the only one that 'counts,' so if you don't get Silent Assassin on your first attempt, you don't get the trophy/achievement/whatever. Even though I have earned a SA ranking on every Elusive Target thus far, I still want to replay some of them.

I just want more content in this game. Escalation Contracts and the online Contracts are far too restrictive for my tastes. With Elusive Targets, new NPCs are added to the level and you have more freedom than you do with Escalation Contracts and online Contracts. I want to replay the Elusive Targets so I can experiment a little and try out some new strategies. Making them timed exclusives hurts Hitman's replayability IMO.

Puiu13
14th Jun 2016, 07:06
The reason why I say they shouldn't is because this is how they made their game.
So what ?! Things can be changed.

Elusive Targets are not broken.
Who said they are broken?!

The simple fact is that there is nothing in this world that everyone likes - there will be people that do not like this.
I am aware of that.


Changing everything just because people are asking you to is counterproductive.
Not if you improve.
I don't see how removing ET's time limit can be counterproductive.



Anything you do not like about the game, TOUGH TITTY! It would not be a question of whether Io wanted to change it for you or not, it would be impossible because you cannot update a cartridge.
:scratch:Sorry i don't really get this part.


You are entitled to your opinion just like I am.
Of course,
Let me tell another thing, i saw that a lot of people are asking for the human shield which i don't really care about but i would have no problem if it will be introduced in the game.


Now get over it.
:hmm:
Relax man
;)

RW_Slick
14th Jun 2016, 08:00
Totally relaxed. "Get over it" was not specifically aimed at you either.

The part you did not get - I said (if it were possible) if HITMAN came out in the days where we had cartridge-based games there would be nothing the devs could change even if they wanted to because a Cartridge cannot be updated once released.

No tension or beef here. I just support the decision to not change how ETs work.

I wish everyone luck against The Sensation, he arrives 11 hours from now

Driber
14th Jun 2016, 09:19
It's actually very different because a million other games don't make their content expire after 48 hours

Right, that was my point - it's something new.


Making them timed exclusives hurts Hitman's replayability IMO.

If there would be no timing element to it whatsoever then the whole idea of ETs goes right out of the window. The whole point of ETs is that they are not replayable.


So what ?! Things can be changed.

Just because things can change doesn't mean they should.


Who said they are broken?!

His point was that things are good (i.e. not broken) as they are right now.


Not if you improve.
I don't see how removing ET's time limit can be counterproductive.

It would be counterproductive to those who enjoy the ETs as they are right now.

Puiu13
14th Jun 2016, 12:08
The part you did not get - I said (if it were possible) if HITMAN came out in the days where we had cartridge-based games there would be nothing the devs could change even if they wanted to because a Cartridge cannot be updated once released.
Yes, but the game came out in 2016, so i don't see why should we speak about "cartridge games".


I wish everyone luck against The Sensation, he arrives 11 hours from now
Good luck to you too.


Just because things can change doesn't mean they should.
If things can be improved why not?


His point was that things are good (i.e. not broken) as they are right now.
Yes, i know , but i think that there's always room for better.


It would be counterproductive to those who enjoy the ETs as they are right now.

Ok, i don't want to be rude but clearly one of us doesn't know the exact meaning of the counterproductive word, maybe is me, in that case i apologize. How in the world removing time from ET will be counterproductive for the players, yes, maybe for the devs, but how this will affect me for example. Don't get me wrong , i said it in other threads that ET is probably the best thing in this game, the problem is(for me) that they are time limited and most likely i will miss a few.

xRedxWarri0rx
15th Jun 2016, 03:28
Who's idea was it to have a time limit on when you can even attempt them!? What benefit does that time limit give, to the developers or the player? Is it to prove some kind of loyalty to the game that you will keep up to date enough that you know when the elusive targets are even happening and also prioritise the game and make sure you are free for a few hours in the given window.

People have kids, they have school/university/jobs, work deadlines, vacations, relatives/friends visiting, illness, etc. Hell, they might not feel like playing hitman in that particualr window the developers are enforcing. Quickest way to get a lot of people hating your game is to force completionists to play your game when they don't feel like playing it.

I'm quite busy with work and family lately, I was away for one of the weekends. I've missed a couple now. Why on earth would they not release them with no timer, let them build up in my backlog of contracts and whenever I CHOOSE to come back to the game I can set aside a nice full weekend of new hitman gaming AT MY LEISURE!

I get that with the elusive targets you're supposed to feel like someone is giving you a contract and you are actually a hitman. Well a timer on the level is the laziest way they could have achieved this. I would rather no timer, begin the contract whenever you want, you get one shot, cannot restart/retry. The fact that you can restart the mission destroys the whole "elusive target" thing anyway, so all we're left with is a timer to make this any different from a regular contract.

Driber
15th Jun 2016, 12:29
Yes, but the game came out in 2016, so i don't see why should we speak about "cartridge games".

He was making a point using a hypothetical. He's saying that because we're no longer living in the age of cartridges and that now game elements can be changed via patches/updates over the internet, it has caused gamers to become too entitled and make way more demands than they would have in the past.

In the age of cartridges gamers accepted the way games were and managed to work with it and find enjoyment in it. These days, many games can't seem to accept the way things are and want devs to cater to each of their whims. And when they don't get what they want, they outrage over it.

Perhaps I'm putting words into RW_Slick's mouth, but judging by the use of that "whambulance" image I'm guessing that is where he was heading.


If things can be improved why not?

A change is not necessarily an improvement.


Yes, i know , but i think that there's always room for better.

What you consider "better" others consider "worse".


Ok, i don't want to be rude but clearly one of us doesn't know the exact meaning of the counterproductive word, maybe is me, in that case i apologize. How in the world removing time from ET will be counterproductive for the players, yes, maybe for the devs, but how this will affect me for example. Don't get me wrong , i said it in other threads that ET is probably the best thing in this game, the problem is(for me) that they are time limited and most likely i will miss a few.

Yes I understand that for you it wouldn't be counterproductive because you yourself want the change. It would be counterproductive to those players who would be unhappy with the change and who enjoy the timed element of the ETs.

It all boils down to personal preferences, really.

borek921
15th Jun 2016, 22:18
The brutal truth is that you guys payed for the episodes, not for live content. When people will buy the retail box they will not have elusives and they will pay the same price as you.


This "live" nature of this game is just like some MMO, think about it. You can buy an expansion to World of Warcraft, it gives you acces to new zones, 10 more levels etc, BUT there are free content patches every now and then, they sometimes contain stuff that is quickly removed from the game never to return, even before the bought expansion ends.

You weren't there to experience that, too bad.

I'm propably biased because I have a lot of time on my hands and I can play the game basically everyday, but I'm just trying to give you raw facts.

RW_Slick
15th Jun 2016, 23:31
Driber, you did not put any words in my mouth. I got tired of saying the same thing over and over. You summed it up quite succinctly.

doom-generation
15th Jun 2016, 23:57
The whole "real world" thing is a nice concept but the reality is that we aren't assassins, we're people who paid money for a game that have jobs and other commitments.

True, but the info for how Elusive targets were going to work was out there before you paid for the game.


my winning streak will end, not because I failed at the game, but because I succeeded at having an adult life.

Then you, my friend, are a true winner :)


there is always time. These things, (if you want them to), can take as little as 10 minutes. They are not that difficult, especially with restart. In fact , I think they are way overrated.

I agree with you, but I'd like to raise a point. While it's true that technically you could complete the mission in 10 minutes or less, I suspect that many people, and I'd count myself as one of them, would only be satisfied with a Silent Assassin rating by the end of it. And if you're doing the mission legit and not following a guide from Youtube, that can take considerably more time to accomplish. Worth bearing in mind, I think.


I'm going Dubai at the end of next week for an entire month or longer and i know for a fact I would be really p****d off if you decided to release another live limited time only ET etc as I would miss out on what I paid for due to having a life.

I'll trade you all the Elusive targets completed SA for a trip to Dubai :)


Of course you may! :)
The reason why I say they shouldn't is because this is how they made their game. Elusive Targets are not broken; there is nothing to fix. The simple fact is that there is nothing in this world that everyone likes - there will be people that do not like this. Changing everything just because people are asking you to is counterproductive.

100% agree.

Puiu13
16th Jun 2016, 08:20
He was making a point using a hypothetical. He's saying that because we're no longer living in the age of cartridges and that now game elements can be changed via patches/updates over the internet, it has caused gamers to become too entitled and make way more demands than they would have in the past.
In the age of cartridges gamers accepted the way games were and managed to work with it and find enjoyment.

Ok, so we have to accept it just because in the past it was not posibile, cool, and since someone said that we only need 10 min to complete ET, what to hell just give us 1 ****in hour cause it's more then enough. Jesus Christ!!


A change is not necessarily an improvement.

Agree. This is just my opinion, maybe is wrong.


What you consider "better" others consider "worse".
That is correct.


It would be counterproductive to those players who would be unhappy with the change and who enjoy the timed element of the ETs.
I can't find a good reason that someone should be unhappy if ET will be timeless, but again i'm subjective...


It all boils down to personal preferences, really.
Exactly.


The brutal truth is that you guys payed for the episodes, not for live content.
That is not true, they said from the beginning before the game was released that they will add live content weekly.


When people will buy the retail box they will not have elusives and they will pay the same price as you.
That's why i've bought the game now , and anyway my guess is that they will add all ET(maybe like regular contracts) into the physical copy.


I agree with you, but I'd like to raise a point. While it's true that technically you could complete the mission in 10 minutes or less, I suspect that many people, and I'd count myself as one of them, would only be satisfied with a Silent Assassin rating by the end of it. And if you're doing the mission legit and not following a guide from Youtube, that can take considerably more time to accomplish. Worth bearing in mind, I think.
Exactly, i've completed them all SA so far, and i like to add myself a extra challenge trying to complete the ET in my first run , with no restart. I like to follow them everywhere and learn every move they make before acting and believe me this takes a lot of time.

Driber
16th Jun 2016, 10:54
Ok, so we have to accept it just because in the past it was not posibile, cool, and since someone said that we only need 10 min to complete ET, what to hell just give us 1 ****in hour cause it's more then enough. Jesus Christ!!

I don't think RW_Slick was saying that people have to accept it. People can disagree with the timing element and voice their opinion on it, no problem. But he was drawing a line, I think, between voicing opinions and making demands / causing outrage. See his Walking Dead example where fans of the show were demanding to know the conclusion of the season's cliffhanger before the start of the next season. Flying spaghetti monster!


I can't find a good reason that someone should be unhappy if ET will be timeless

I can - taking away the exclusivity of the ET's.


That's why i've bought the game now , and anyway my guess is that they will add all ET(maybe like regular contracts) into the physical copy.

Okay so if the ET's will be available again in the final retail copy then all of this outrage is kinda pointless, isn't it?


That is not true, they said from the beginning before the game was released that they will add live content weekly.

Which you'll still receive if your speculation about them being available in the final retail copy turns out to be true.

Puiu13
16th Jun 2016, 12:35
I can-taking away the exclusivity of the ET's.
Good point, i can accept this, but not the fact that in the past it was not possible or that they made the game like this.
This can be a good reason, even if in my opinion the exclusivity of the ET's should be the fact that you can only play them once or the fact that you can't see them on the map, but is ok you came up with a good reason.


Okay so if the ET's will be available in the final retailcopy then all of this outrage is kinda pointless, isn't it?


Which you'll stil receive if your speculation about them being available in the final retail copy out to be true

I only said that because i think that the devs will not going to waste the ET's, but as you said this is only speculation.


People can disagree with the timing element and voice their opinion on it.
Actually that's what i did.


making demands / causing outrage.
If that's what you think is all about then you should read again all my replies.
Anyway i will not reply anymore in this thread.

diemaschine
19th Jun 2016, 20:04
The brutal truth is that you guys payed for the episodes, not for live content.

Not entirely true. If you buy the full experience, IO specifically states,

"On release players have access to the Intro Pack content - Prologue Mission, the Paris Sanguine Fashion Show, full access to Contracts Mode, Escalation Mode, elusive targets and other live content. Remaining content will be available as six releases periodically throughout 2016, starting April 2016. "

Full access to elusive targets is totally false advertising.

Driber
20th Jun 2016, 13:18
If that's what you think is all about then you should read again all my replies.

I never said that you are making demands or causing outrage.

Malacath
21st Jun 2016, 23:03
I agree. The Elusive targets feature is aweful

I don't mind the fact you only get one chance to complete them but I don't like the fact they are timed.

I have not done a single elusive target. Partly because I don't play the same game every single day and also because I didn't know when the elusive targets were available.

I feel I am not getting what I paid for because a certain feature of the game is too elusive due to the time limits

jimbianco
21st Jun 2016, 23:41
I have not done a single elusive target. Partly because I don't play the same game every single day and also because I didn't know when the elusive targets were available.


They send emails to let us know, along with announcing it well before hand on here, twitter, facebook, and the other forum. You need to enter your email address in Square Enix(SEM) tab to get the emails/surveys. It's in the menu of the game. No excuses to miss these. I don't play every day, haven't missed one. It's not that difficult.

doom-generation
22nd Jun 2016, 01:44
I feel I am not getting what I paid for because a certain feature of the game is too elusive due to the time limits

https://s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/centaur-wp/creativereview/prod/content/uploads/2012/02/ronseal_frame_b_0.jpg