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Immadummee
5th Jun 2016, 00:50
To have both on is just OP. Of course it could be turned off but for the sake of immersion and to get the most fair scores on the leadboards, why not have to choose which one we use? If you have the mini map on, do you really use instinct? Likely not cuz it's useless, unless you're looking for a target. But then that's why the mini map should be off, for good. It's OP'd. And if instinct is on and mini map off, then WE have to do the work ourselves to turn the camera and see where enemies are, even if we see them through walls, floors and ceilings, it at least makes THE PLAYER do the work to see where enemies are as opposed to seeing all of them on a mini map. Maybe the mini map could just be there for your direction but not show the enemies on it.

But that's just me. How do you feel about that and how do you play and why?

RW_Slick
5th Jun 2016, 01:08
I have no beef with anyone's preference on these, but I would say that having both is not OP at all. I use them for a couple of reasons.

1. This is my first Hitman experience and I admittedly am not great.
2. Neither of these are perfect and they compliment each other (I will explain)
3. IO has pretty much given us enough settings options to do whatever we want in terms of the look of the game.

On #2, I (personally) could not see using one or the other. Yes, the minimap shows you where enemies are, but its limitation is that aside from a target, it will not show enemies on a different floor. Using Marrakesh as an example, the minimap alone could send you right into the path of a soldier coming down the steps as you go up because you cannot see him. Game over.

With Instinct, you can see through floors and walls (to an extent), but it can be confusing at times because the outlines of characters can throw you off. A good number of times I have used instinct and it looked like a guy had his back to me. I come out of cover and get spotted.

Even with both on, it is so easy to get spotted, especially indoors in an open, multilevel setting like the Consulate or Caruso Family Home. You gotta play in the way most comfortable for you, so I would say that "Youaintadummee" for bringing this up.

doom-generation
5th Jun 2016, 01:18
I hated Instinct in Absolution... that felt OP, knowing exactly where the enemies were going to walk... I like it in this game, though, feels more balanced.

Immadummee
5th Jun 2016, 02:18
I have no beef with anyone's preference on these, but I would say that having both is not OP at all. I use them for a couple of reasons.

1. This is my first Hitman experience and I admittedly am not great.
2. Neither of these are perfect and they compliment each other (I will explain)
3. IO has pretty much given us enough settings options to do whatever we want in terms of the look of the game.

On #2, I (personally) could not see using one or the other. Yes, the minimap shows you where enemies are, but its limitation is that aside from a target, it will not show enemies on a different floor. Using Marrakesh as an example, the minimap alone could send you right into the path of a soldier coming down the steps as you go up because you cannot see him. Game over.

With Instinct, you can see through floors and walls (to an extent), but it can be confusing at times because the outlines of characters can throw you off. A good number of times I have used instinct and it looked like a guy had his back to me. I come out of cover and get spotted.

Even with both on, it is so easy to get spotted, especially indoors in an open, multilevel setting like the Consulate or Caruso Family Home. You gotta play in the way most comfortable for you, so I would say that "Youaintadummee" for bringing this up.

Ok that's fair for the new comers, but at the same time, this "mechanic" isn't new. It's fro older games like batman Arkham games (detective mode) and assassins creed franchise (eagle vision). So even if you're new to batman Arkham games, there never was a minimap that showed the enemies on it. You'd have to do the work yourself, regardless if you're new or not. That's how the game is made. So with instinct mode, you could see ever single NPC around you. The good thing about it is that you have to do it yourself, just like the Arkham games and assassins creed, whether you're new or not.

But that's just how I feel.


I hated Instinct in Absolution... that felt OP, knowing exactly where the enemies were going to walk... I like it in this game, though, feels more balanced.

Ya, that was brutal. Being able to see their path was really bad. But all I'm saying is let the players skill take over and let us be the "best" Hitman we can be by FORCING us to do the work. Giving a minimap is fine, but only for navigation. But the fact that all enemies are on it, kills the immersion of gameplay, at least for me. And for that, I never play with mini map on just cuz I want the game to feel a little bit tough to play and that's what instinct is for anyways. :)

Frater000
5th Jun 2016, 02:40
Absolution had an OP instinct mode but Im pretty satisfied with instinct in this Hitman.
The mimimap gives perfect awareness of your souroundings, so it is a bit redundant to have instinct relaying some of the same information...
Instinct is most useful for me when a map first comes out. Finding and memoring the location of certain (sometime vital) resources. Pretty much everything of interest is highlighted and items will always spawn in the same location....

Instinct is a huge asset but highly redundant in 'enemy awareness'....because the minimap already does this incredibly well....

Some people really want this game to be harder...

So maybe replace fully visible silouetes with footstep vibrations on the floor.....
Pretty sure I've seen that in other games...Mark of the ninja, Invisible INC.

RW_Slick
5th Jun 2016, 02:58
Ok that's fair for the new comers, but at the same time, this "mechanic" isn't new. It's fro older games like batman Arkham games (detective mode) and assassins creed franchise (eagle vision). So even if you're new to batman Arkham games, there never was a minimap that showed the enemies on it. You'd have to do the work yourself, regardless if you're new or not. That's how the game is made. So with instinct mode, you could see ever single NPC around you. The good thing about it is that you have to do it yourself, just like the Arkham games and assassins creed, whether you're new or not.

But that's just how I feel.

If 47 could whoop ass like Batman, I would give back the mini-map, the guns and the Garrotte wire. All I would need are the lock pick, poison and explosives.

doom-generation
5th Jun 2016, 03:00
But all I'm saying is let the players skill take over and let us be the "best" Hitman we can be by FORCING us to do the work.

I don't think that anyone at IO would think "forcing the players to do work" would be a very popular opinion among players.

Immadummee
5th Jun 2016, 03:36
If 47 could whoop ass like Batman, I would give back the mini-map, the guns and the Garrotte wire. All I would need are the lock pick, poison and explosives.

Well he kinda does cuz he could wear a disguise and walk right past everyone and kill his target, take another disguise and walk right out. So he has a "different" kind of power. ;)


I don't think that anyone at IO would think "forcing the players to do work" would be a very popular opinion among players.

Well they did it already with instinct. From absolution, they showed their path. Now in H6, they removed that and "forced" players to watch their paths on their own. Same concept, bubba Jones.:rasp:
But I hope you know what I mean.

JefTheReaper
5th Jun 2016, 09:10
To have both on is just OP. Of course it could be turned off but for the sake of immersion and to get the most fair scores on the leadboards, why not have to choose which one we use? If you have the mini map on, do you really use instinct? Likely not cuz it's useless, unless you're looking for a target. But then that's why the mini map should be off, for good. It's OP'd. And if instinct is on and mini map off, then WE have to do the work ourselves to turn the camera and see where enemies are, even if we see them through walls, floors and ceilings, it at least makes THE PLAYER do the work to see where enemies are as opposed to seeing all of them on a mini map. Maybe the mini map could just be there for your direction but not show the enemies on it.

But that's just me. How do you feel about that and how do you play and why?

In the option menu, you can turn off instinct or the mini map, or both, if you like to, so that you can't use them.

Its a choice, you are not forced to use instinct nor the mini map, and Square Enix even went true the trouble to give a on/off switch in the option menu for all the people who lack self control and keep using instinct even if they call it lazy.

Sounding like a dick with this reply, but I really can't stand it when people say this system is lazy even tough you can turn it off whenever you want to, and even if you don't, its still a mater of just not pushing the instinct button, just some self control.

Same for all the people crying for a difficulty mode, just stop complaining, go in your option menu, disable ALL hud components and instinct, then do all escalation missions and try to do the story with a silent assassin rating, suit only and ONLY use fiber-wire to kill your targets.
There, nightmare difficulty mode unlocked.

Immadummee
5th Jun 2016, 14:26
In the option menu, you can turn off instinct or the mini map, or both, if you like to, so that you can't use them.

Its a choice, you are not forced to use instinct nor the mini map, and Square Enix even went true the trouble to give a on/off switch in the option menu for all the people who lack self control and keep using instinct even if they call it lazy.

Sounding like a dick with this reply, but I really can't stand it when people say this system is lazy even tough you can turn it off whenever you want to, and even if you don't, its still a mater of just not pushing the instinct button, just some self control.

Same for all the people crying for a difficulty mode, just stop complaining, go in your option menu, disable ALL hud components and instinct, then do all escalation missions and try to do the story with a silent assassin rating, suit only and ONLY use fiber-wire to kill your targets.
There, nightmare difficulty mode unlocked.

Man, you got it all wrong. Obviously anyone can go into the options and turn it off, but I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about game design and the integrity of the game. Just cuz I can turn it off, it doesn't mean that "Joe shmoe" will. But when we do challenges and leaderboard things, he has a better score than me cuz he has his "easy mode" option on.

If it's about option on or off, then it's like saying putting an option in the game where you hold a button and it makes you completely invisible, even if wearing suit only. And that's the point. If the game had that, then does it make it fair/right that someone sits on top of the leaderboard saying that he's number 1 cuz he did it the fastest, but he used "invisible mode" the whole time?

So you're totally confused. This isn't about me turning it off, but how the game should FORCE players to play the game by ACTUALLY doing the work themselves, just like batman Arkham games with detective mode, and assassins creed games with eagle vision. Instinct is more than enough and make people use the camera themselves to spot NPC's and make their way around.

Hope you got it this time. :nut:

JefTheReaper
5th Jun 2016, 15:24
Man, you got it all wrong. Obviously anyone can go into the options and turn it off, but I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about game design and the integrity of the game. Just cuz I can turn it off, it doesn't mean that "Joe shmoe" will. But when we do challenges and leaderboard things, he has a better score than me cuz he has his "easy mode" option on.

If it's about option on or off, then it's like saying putting an option in the game where you hold a button and it makes you completely invisible, even if wearing suit only. And that's the point. If the game had that, then does it make it fair/right that someone sits on top of the leaderboard saying that he's number 1 cuz he did it the fastest, but he used "invisible mode" the whole time?

So you're totally confused. This isn't about me turning it off, but how the game should FORCE players to play the game by ACTUALLY doing the work themselves, just like batman Arkham games with detective mode, and assassins creed games with eagle vision. Instinct is more than enough and make people use the camera themselves to spot NPC's and make their way around.

Hope you got it this time. :nut:

Well I could give a long explanation, but I'm just going to keep it short,
if you want to play without instinct, that's your choice,
if "Joe Shmoe" wants to play with instinct... That's his choice, not your call.
Its not unfair as you have those tools at your disposal as well, its your choice wherever you want or don't want to use them tough.

Most importantly, in the first place, why do you even care how other people play there own game?
you are not a co-up playing inside there game, so it's hardly messing up your quality game time.
And the leaderboards *shrug* really who actually cares? The top 10 is usually people who use cheats anyways, and its not like being number one in the leaderboards means anything.

well except that one steam achievement where you need to be number 1 in a contract, but its not like that's hard to do.

point being, do whatever you like in your own game, but its no use trying to dictate what other people can or can't do in there game.

If this game was a mmo, and prize money was placed on getting first ranking in the leaderboards, then I would agree that the leaderboard at least needs to be synchronized with the player's settings (multiple leaderboards that put you together with player's who use the same settings)

but for this game?
pff why is this even important?
I don't even look at my rank after finishing a level or contract, for all I care they should have left that part out of the game and used the time and resources used for the leaderboards on more important aspects of the game.

Nearly all games the past few years are literally blowing there budget and development time on unimportant stuff like leaderboards or co-up / pvp even tough the majority of the gaming community has also been crying out for the past years to stop wasting resources and focus on single player, as that is what we want.

I literally know nobody in my gaming circle of friends who even cares about any multiplayer aspect in a game aside from some casual co up if its available in the story mode itself

Immadummee
5th Jun 2016, 16:11
Well I could give a long explanation, but I'm just going to keep it short,
if you want to play without instinct, that's your choice,
if "Joe Shmoe" wants to play with instinct... That's his choice, not your call.
Its not unfair as you have those tools at your disposal as well, its your choice wherever you want or don't want to use them tough.

Most importantly, in the first place, why do you even care how other people play there own game?
you are not a co-up playing inside there game, so it's hardly messing up your quality game time.
And the leaderboards *shrug* really who actually cares? The top 10 is usually people who use cheats anyways, and its not like being number one in the leaderboards means anything.

well except that one steam achievement where you need to be number 1 in a contract, but its not like that's hard to do.

point being, do whatever you like in your own game, but its no use trying to dictate what other people can or can't do in there game.

If this game was a mmo, and prize money was placed on getting first ranking in the leaderboards, then I would agree that the leaderboard at least needs to be synchronized with the player's settings (multiple leaderboards that put you together with player's who use the same settings)

but for this game?
pff why is this even important?
I don't even look at my rank after finishing a level or contract, for all I care they should have left that part out of the game and used the time and resources used for the leaderboards on more important aspects of the game.

Nearly all games the past few years are literally blowing there budget and development time on unimportant stuff like leaderboards or co-up / pvp even tough the majority of the gaming community has also been crying out for the past years to stop wasting resources and focus on single player, as that is what we want.

I literally know nobody in my gaming circle of friends who even cares about any multiplayer aspect in a game aside from some casual co up if its available in the story mode itself


But it's not about you or I to turn options on or off. It's about GAME DESIGN and INTEGRITY of the game. Just like I said, why don't they put in an option where you press 1 button and then you're invisible...all the time? Cuz that ruins the integrity of the game. By having instinct, we already see EVERY NPC around us, so what's the point in giving us a mini map where ALL NPC's are visible on that floor when we SHOULD be using instinct to do the work ourselves to see where enemies are? Heck, even instinct tells us who are enforcers.

All I'm saying is it's redundant to have BOTH mini map (with NPC locations) and instinct. It should be instinct only and make the players play the game with their OWN SKILL by doing the work THEMSELVES. I just find it lazy game design. That's my point. Not whether someone can turn it off or on. There's no need to say the obvious, bud.

JefTheReaper
5th Jun 2016, 16:53
But it's not about you or I to turn options on or off. It's about GAME DESIGN and INTEGRITY of the game. Just like I said, why don't they put in an option where you press 1 button and then you're invisible...all the time? Cuz that ruins the integrity of the game. By having instinct, we already see EVERY NPC around us, so what's the point in giving us a mini map where ALL NPC's are visible on that floor when we SHOULD be using instinct to do the work ourselves to see where enemies are? Heck, even instinct tells us who are enforcers.

All I'm saying is it's redundant to have BOTH mini map (with NPC locations) and instinct. It should be instinct only and make the players play the game with their OWN SKILL by doing the work THEMSELVES. I just find it lazy game design. That's my point. Not whether someone can turn it off or on. There's no need to say the obvious, bud.

You are missing the core of the Hitman series bro,
let me give a very dumb and blunt example,
"why do you even NEED all those guns and knives in the game? they should have just left them out as all you really need is your chokehold and fiberwire"

just like the huge variety of weapons and items in game, the mini map and instinct are both left up to the player's personal likes and dislikes to approach a situation,

just because you don't want to use a minimal/instinct, does not mean every other player wants to do that.
This Hitman, just like previous Hitmans pre-Absolution has been designed as multi-purpose/approach
you get many tools, and its up to you to choose what tools you want to use, instead of only getting a limited set of tools the developers force you to use.

The game gives you the choice to play the way you want to, its not a negative thing.

like the blunt example, you can finish Hitman 2 by only using a fiberwire, yet you still have a shack full of weapons.
I could also say player's are being lazy and relying on to much unnecessary unbalanced tools by killing all there targets with a silenced handgun or sniper, even tough a fiberwire is ready and available.

Just because those weapons are there does not mean you HAVE to use all of them, its not a big red button you HAVE to push, its a choice, and the beauty of that choice is that its different for every player, it makes room for creativity and unique playstyles.
This also goes for the choice wherever you want to use the mini-map, instinct, both or none.

Immadummee
5th Jun 2016, 18:30
You are missing the core of the Hitman series bro,
let me give a very dumb and blunt example,
"why do you even NEED all those guns and knives in the game? they should have just left them out as all you really need is your chokehold and fiberwire"

just like the huge variety of weapons and items in game, the mini map and instinct are both left up to the player's personal likes and dislikes to approach a situation,

just because you don't want to use a minimal/instinct, does not mean every other player wants to do that.
This Hitman, just like previous Hitmans pre-Absolution has been designed as multi-purpose/approach
you get many tools, and its up to you to choose what tools you want to use, instead of only getting a limited set of tools the developers force you to use.

The game gives you the choice to play the way you want to, its not a negative thing.

like the blunt example, you can finish Hitman 2 by only using a fiberwire, yet you still have a shack full of weapons.
I could also say player's are being lazy and relying on to much unnecessary unbalanced tools by killing all there targets with a silenced handgun or sniper, even tough a fiberwire is ready and available.

Just because those weapons are there does not mean you HAVE to use all of them, its not a big red button you HAVE to push, its a choice, and the beauty of that choice is that its different for every player, it makes room for creativity and unique playstyles.
This also goes for the choice wherever you want to use the mini-map, instinct, both or none.

That actually isn't a dumb example. It's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. The player might have the CHOICE to use any weapon they want, but it's STILL up to the player to FIND IT and USE IT. The player does the work themselves. And that's my point. The mini map does the work for you while instinct has you do it yourself. It's like everything else in the game. The player AIMS, the player PRESSES THE BUTTON TO SHOOT, the player WALKS OR RUNS in whatever direction they want, etc etc.

As this game is suppose to be a stealth game, the minimap kills the immersion of that very thing, regardless if you wanna use that option on or off. Playing the game should be the way we learn the map, not a minimap with NPC locations to hold your hand.


Have you played assassins creed unity? If not, go see how that game is FAR MORE stealthy than Hitman. If you screw up, combat is very realistic that you don't get to use a mini map to run away and see your enemies to avoid on your retreat. So it makes you play smarter in a more stealthy way and to avoid getting spotted in the first place and don't have the ability to rely on a mini map. And that's how this game should have been designed.

So all I'm saying is let the player do the work, not have the game do it for them.

jimbianco
5th Jun 2016, 19:19
I hated Instinct in Absolution... that felt OP, knowing exactly where the enemies were going to walk... I like it in this game, though, feels more balanced.

very simple. don't use instinct.

JefTheReaper
5th Jun 2016, 19:43
That actually isn't a dumb example. It's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. The player might have the CHOICE to use any weapon they want, but it's STILL up to the player to FIND IT and USE IT. The player does the work themselves. And that's my point. The mini map does the work for you while instinct has you do it yourself. It's like everything else in the game. The player AIMS, the player PRESSES THE BUTTON TO SHOOT, the player WALKS OR RUNS in whatever direction they want, etc etc.

As this game is suppose to be a stealth game, the minimap kills the immersion of that very thing, regardless if you wanna use that option on or off. Playing the game should be the way we learn the map, not a minimap with NPC locations to hold your hand.


Have you played assassins creed unity? If not, go see how that game is FAR MORE stealthy than Hitman. If you screw up, combat is very realistic that you don't get to use a mini map to run away and see your enemies to avoid on your retreat. So it makes you play smarter in a more stealthy way and to avoid getting spotted in the first place and don't have the ability to rely on a mini map. And that's how this game should have been designed.

So all I'm saying is let the player do the work, not have the game do it for them.

Well that is also a easy one,
47 is a genetic engineered human made to be at the panicle of physical and mental powers,
yet none of the past games really made you feel like 47 was a superhuman being, asside form the fact that somehow he seems to know his location and the way his target will act as if he has done this before (laughs softly as the game itself acts as if the replay button is not a real thing)

thanks to the fact that 47 is now a master in hand to hand combat, and never gets tired while running, climbing or so on, clearly shows his superhuman stamina and power,
but as for his mental prowers, nothing really showed for it, untill the instinct came,
technically you should see instinct as a "this is how 47 sees things, he sees details you as the player don't, due to his superhuman ability to process his surroundings, and anticipate his target's movements, along with guessing the movements of people who are close by

Not that its a real big deal at any rate, as in the past hitman games, even tough there was no instinct, the mini map showed way more details then it does now, and you could view a full map at any time to see npc's, guards, special higher ranked guards, and the target at any time, ANYWHERE
meanwhile instinct in this game only show's the target at infinite range, and even then you can't really tell where they are going unless you are close by so you can see in what room he/she is.

If anything 47's ability to guess anyone's location has been nerfed compared to past games (yes I'm ignoring Absolution, for obvious reasons)

As for assassin's creed, its hardly a stealth game, or at least its not anymore, used to be in the Ezio saga, but something went horribly wrong along the way,
even so it still follows a pattern,
you "stealth" approach your target, you kill the target, you run as everybody noticed your kill.
that's the difference with hitman,
you are supposed to go in, kill the target unnoticed, and go back out unnoticed.

doom-generation
5th Jun 2016, 20:25
very simple. don't use instinct.

I had an even better solution: Stopped playing Absolution. :)

Quajek
6th Jun 2016, 20:34
I think being able to change disguises is OP. Everyone should be forced to do every mission Suit Only.

I know nothing is forcing me to put on disguises, but it isn't fair that Joe Schmoe gets to use this game feature and then gets a better leaderboard score than me because he's playing in easy mode!

doom-generation
6th Jun 2016, 20:43
I think being able to change disguises is OP. Everyone should be forced to do every mission Suit Only.

I know nothing is forcing me to put on disguises, but it isn't fair that Joe Schmoe gets to use this game feature and then gets a better leaderboard score than me because he's playing in easy mode!

Cookies in the mail for you Sir/Miss. :lmao: