PDA

View Full Version : What is the point of having "fake surrender" w/o Human Shield ?



jimbianco
1st Jun 2016, 14:37
I realized we need human shield in the game more than ever after Morocco and all the ultra sensitive guards. Fake Surrender is, 75% of the time, a death sentence. In Morocco it's 95%. With human shield we might have a fighting chance. The need for difficulty settings really shows in Morocco. Morocco has an Absolution feel to it because of the ultra sensitive vision of guards. NOT GOOD. Spotted through walls, resulting in "fake surrender", resulting in getting gunned down. I Thought gunplay was adjusted in 1.07 update. I shot the massage guy 4 times at close range and he still got up. So , either take fake surrender out or give us human shield. I am tired of having to restart every time I see that "fake surrender" pop up.

doom-generation
1st Jun 2016, 17:03
I realized we need human shield in the game more than ever after Morocco and all the ultra sensitive guards.

Disagree.




The answer isn't human shield, the answer is get good, son :p

[QUOTE=jimbianco;2214470]The need for difficulty settings really shows in Morocco.

Disagree. See above.


Morocco has an Absolution feel to it because of the ultra sensitive vision of guards. NOT GOOD. Spotted through walls, resulting in "fake surrender", resulting in getting gunned down.

Disagree about it feeling like Absolution. I haven't had that happen once and I've been playing it hard.


I Thought gunplay was adjusted in 1.07 update. I shot the massage guy 4 times at close range and he still got up. So , either take fake surrender out or give us human shield. I am tired of having to restart every time I see that "fake surrender" pop up.

If you read the update notes, it states "Re-balanced headshot damage for all pistols. Pistols should now be more lethal at longer ranges, when performing headshots.
Minor re-balancing and bug fixing of several firearms, including damage models and recoil patterns."

So yes, it was adjusted, but no increase in body-shot damage.

jimbianco
1st Jun 2016, 19:26
Disagree about it feeling like Absolution. I haven't had that happen once and I've been playing it hard.

ps4, by the way, you are playing a different game than I am if this hasn't happened to you. Try "The Kotti Paradigm" (if you can suffer through it), I gave up because the walls suddenly became see through. And yes, the game severely needs an AI adjustment. How is it we can sneak up behind guards and they suddenly become deaf.? The see through walls , but can't see blood pools?

JefTheReaper
1st Jun 2016, 19:51
I realized we need human shield in the game more than ever after Morocco and all the ultra sensitive guards. Fake Surrender is, 75% of the time, a death sentence. In Morocco it's 95%. With human shield we might have a fighting chance. The need for difficulty settings really shows in Morocco. Morocco has an Absolution feel to it because of the ultra sensitive vision of guards. NOT GOOD. Spotted through walls, resulting in "fake surrender", resulting in getting gunned down. I Thought gunplay was adjusted in 1.07 update. I shot the massage guy 4 times at close range and he still got up. So , either take fake surrender out or give us human shield. I am tired of having to restart every time I see that "fake surrender" pop up.

Well to start with, the game is a stealth game, not a shooter action game,
if you even need to use fake surrender, it pretty much means you already failed the mission.

fake surrender is also pointless if you are in the middle of a group of hostiles,
when surrounded by a group, make a break for it, try to find a hiding place, and find a disguise after things cool down.
If its just 1 or 2 hostiles, use the fake surrender, preferably when its just 1 hostile,
if you take him down with the fake surrender, it will prevent that hostile from informing the other guards/enemy's, preventing them from hunting you.

Fake surrender is not a means to turn the game in a shootout, its meant to be used to prevent your cover from being completely blown to pieces due to screwing up something.

As a example, I only used human shield in Absolution to complete a challenge/playstyle, never used it during a serious playtrue as its a complete pointless move, if I use that move it simply means I screwed up and have to restart.
same for fake surrender. If you play the game the way its envisioned to be played, you never have to use those two moves unless you try to salvage a moment you screwed up, trying to prevent it from turning in a total disaster.

I only aim for Silent Assassin tough,
suit only, no guns, only kill targets, fiber-wire or accident, I prefer accidents as that really links nothing to 47 at all, but fiber-wire is just iconic.

If anything I wish the game was a little harder! Guards and civilians should notice blood splatters and pools and other odd things.

doom-generation
1st Jun 2016, 20:09
Disagree about it feeling like Absolution. I haven't had that happen once and I've been playing it hard.

ps4, by the way, you are playing a different game than I am if this hasn't happened to you. Try "The Kotti Paradigm" (if you can suffer through it), I gave up because the walls suddenly became see through. And yes, the game severely needs an AI adjustment. How is it we can sneak up behind guards and they suddenly become deaf.? The see through walls , but can't see blood pools?

I'm on PS4 too.

I finished The Kotti Paradigm. Didn't suffer any see-through walls.


As a example, I only used human shield in Absolution to complete a challenge/playstyle, never used it during a serious playtrue as its a complete pointless move, if I use that move it simply means I screwed up and have to restart.

^This.

In Blood Money, I only ever used human shield if I needed to knock out an NPC and was out of sedative syringes. Given the subdue feature and non-lethal melee weapons in this game, that need is now moot.

AZAZEAL7A
1st Jun 2016, 21:34
jimbianco is right, fake surrender is pointless without human shield...
I also agree that most of the time if you have to use fake surrender you have already failed the mission...however it would be nice to be able to dish out some pain if they do catch you out, instead you get a pointless fake surrender and then you ether run or if you stand your ground you get mowed down in a couple of seconds (human shield would fix that).
I always do my best to do a mission properly but I also want to have some serious fun trying to survive a mess that I sometimes get into...instead you have three choices: run/get mowed down/restart the level manually...human shield should've been in there at the beginning (for reasons to do with fun, not all of us play the same way)...


The answer isn't human shield, the answer is get good, son :p

Still condescending as ever I see, just because someone wants human shield (should have been there in the first place) doesn't mean they're not good at the game...for all you know we are far better at it than you are...sunny Jim :p

doom-generation
1st Jun 2016, 21:42
Still condescending as ever I see, just because someone wants human shield (should have been there in the first place) doesn't mean they're not good at the game...for all you know we are far better at it than you are...

Oh for goodness sake, do I have to signpost a joke that clearly? Calm down man.

AZAZEAL7A
1st Jun 2016, 21:55
Oh for goodness sake, do I have to signpost a joke that clearly? Calm down man.

Then stop insulting people lol, my goodness...How is that not being completely condescending to jimbianco and anyone else who wants the human shield? I guarantee you he didn't find it funny either...little one...

AZAZEAL7A
1st Jun 2016, 22:06
You are deliberately prodding people trying to get a reaction :poke: then when people do react you tell them to calm down because it was only a joke lol...e.g. maybe you don't want the human shield because you're no good at using it...Completely understandable :p

JefTheReaper
1st Jun 2016, 22:29
I'm on PS4 too.

I finished The Kotti Paradigm. Didn't suffer any see-through walls.



^This.

In Blood Money, I only ever used human shield if I needed to knock out an NPC and was out of sedative syringes. Given the subdue feature and non-lethal melee weapons in this game, that need is now moot.

Lol, I actually even forgot blood money HAD a human shield option, don't even recall using it.
never needed to use it XD

doom-generation
1st Jun 2016, 23:17
Then stop insulting people lol, my goodness...How is that not being completely condescending to jimbianco and anyone else who wants the human shield? I guarantee you he didn't find it funny either...little one...

What was that about being condescending? If you think a post of mine is crossing the line that badly, then report it. I'm not deliberately prodding for a reaction, if jimbianco comes here and tells me he took offence at it, I'll apologise to him.

AZAZEAL7A
1st Jun 2016, 23:50
What was that about being condescending? If you think a post of mine is crossing the line that badly, then report it. I'm not deliberately prodding for a reaction, if jimbianco comes here and tells me he took offence at it, I'll apologise to him.

It's called irony, did you not see the e.g.?
What's the point of reporting lol? You and the admin's are best buddy's, in cahoots if you will...they will always take your side because they like having their little musketeers defending the game on every other post...


Lol, I actually even forgot blood money HAD a human shield option, don't even recall using it.
never needed to use it XD

Fair enough, but those of us that did use it and enjoyed using it want it back...hence all the people asking for it XD

jimbianco
1st Jun 2016, 23:56
I just get tired of all the restarting to be honest. :)Although the load times have become pretty reasonable on ps4.

AZAZEAL7A
2nd Jun 2016, 00:04
I just get tired of all the restarting to be honest. :)Although the load times have become pretty reasonable on ps4.

I don't mind restarting if I mess up, but I want to give them hell before I do lol...not possible if I get mowed down too quickly, the human shield would really help with that...

jimbianco
2nd Jun 2016, 00:10
yes. agreed 100%. It's like the fake surrender option shouldn't even be there, they should just skip it and have the guards shoot us down. Save us the extra step of 47 holding his arms up, just to go thru that QTE & get slaughtered.

Guards and civilians should notice blood splatters and pools and other odd things. [/I]

this too. (if there were only enough blood for them to notice):D

AZAZEAL7A
2nd Jun 2016, 00:52
Agreed, blood trails that guards spot and follow (like in the good old blood money when you drag a bleeding body along the ground, they used to follow the blood trail and find the hidden body) is something that should have been in there from the beginning...there's dual wielding and sniper briefcase missing as well...

kaneten
2nd Jun 2016, 04:30
It used to always be feasible to run and gun if you wanted to, in a game that is supposed to be about having multiple options at your disposal. After all, the dual silverballers were obviously an ultra-aggressive equip that you would never use in a stealth playthrough. But they were there if it all went to crap and you didn't want to load or restart, or if you just wanted to mess around. Human shield helped in such situations too.

Now if combat ensues, in most cases you're pretty much dead. I don't hate it as somebody who likes tense stealth, but it's weird that you can't use 47's gangly arms to grab somebody to defend himself with at least, lol.

AZAZEAL7A
2nd Jun 2016, 05:36
It used to always be feasible to run and gun if you wanted to, in a game that is supposed to be about having multiple options at your disposal. After all, the dual silverballers were obviously an ultra-aggressive equip that you would never use in a stealth playthrough. But they were there if it all went to crap and you didn't want to load or restart, or if you just wanted to mess around. Human shield helped in such situations too.

Now if combat ensues, in most cases you're pretty much dead. I don't hate it as somebody who likes tense stealth, but it's weird that you can't use 47's gangly arms to grab somebody to defend himself with at least, lol.

Exactly, 47 is supposed to be incredibly versatile, able to adapt to any situation...How are we supposed to adapt if the mechanics that allow us to aren't in place, not to mention the death trap hand to hand mechanic (it's the equivalent of doing a waltz in front of a firing squad).
Could also do with all the equipment not being locked behind completing each level multiple times, again limiting your versatility until you've already played the game to death...it's so disappointing :(

doom-generation
2nd Jun 2016, 05:45
It's called irony, did you not see the e.g.?

There was no "e.g." in the part I quoted, that was in your double post.


What's the point of reporting lol? You and the admin's are best buddy's, in cahoots if you will...they will always take your side because they like having their little musketeers defending the game on every other post...

1) That is demonstrably untrue.
2) That's a poor excuse.
3) ?
4) Profit!

AZAZEAL7A
2nd Jun 2016, 06:08
There was no "e.g." in the part I quoted, that was in your double post.

Do I have to put a signpost on every ironic comeback lol, again see the e.g. for an example...



1) That is demonstrably untrue.
2) That's a poor excuse.
3) ?
4) Profit!

1) possibly...still not worth the attempt.
2) besides why bother getting them involved when I'm doing a perfectly fine job of it myself.
3) ?
4) profit??...I admit, you've lost me this time...Unless you're the one who's admitting that you're on their payroll?

doom-generation
2nd Jun 2016, 10:51
Do I have to put a signpost on every ironic comeback lol, again see the e.g. for an example...

Like I said, there was no e.g. in the bit I quoted.


1) possibly...still not worth the attempt.

No, no, no. If you think I've been too harsh, then stand by that opinion and report it. Don't half-**** it. If you're gonna raise the issue then raise the issue. If not, then don't raise them at all.


2) besides why bother getting them involved when I'm doing a perfectly fine job of it myself.

What is it you think you're doing a fine job of? I'm not seeing it...


3) ?
4) profit??...I admit, you've lost me this time...Unless you're the one who's admitting that you're on their payroll?

You don't get what that's from? Ah ha, that explains alot :rolleyes:

m1911suppressor
2nd Jun 2016, 11:17
Well to start with, the game is a stealth game, not a shooter action game,
if you even need to use fake surrender, it pretty much means you already failed the mission.

fake surrender is also pointless if you are in the middle of a group of hostiles,
when surrounded by a group, make a break for it, try to find a hiding place, and find a disguise after things cool down.
If its just 1 or 2 hostiles, use the fake surrender, preferably when its just 1 hostile,
if you take him down with the fake surrender, it will prevent that hostile from informing the other guards/enemy's, preventing them from hunting you.

Fake surrender is not a means to turn the game in a shootout, its meant to be used to prevent your cover from being completely blown to pieces due to screwing up something.

As a example, I only used human shield in Absolution to complete a challenge/playstyle, never used it during a serious playtrue as its a complete pointless move, if I use that move it simply means I screwed up and have to restart.
same for fake surrender. If you play the game the way its envisioned to be played, you never have to use those two moves unless you try to salvage a moment you screwed up, trying to prevent it from turning in a total disaster.

I only aim for Silent Assassin tough,
suit only, no guns, only kill targets, fiber-wire or accident, I prefer accidents as that really links nothing to 47 at all, but fiber-wire is just iconic.

If anything I wish the game was a little harder! Guards and civilians should notice blood splatters and pools and other odd things.

m1911suppressor
2nd Jun 2016, 11:28
if you are so sure about how the game has to be played and what it is designed for and what not and if you are so damn good at the game that you dont even need some of the gameplay systems the game offers you, then all seems to be fine for you. But I can understand if some players are irritated by some of the worst gameplay mechanics out there. Of course hitman isn t a shooter action game and instead wants players to be stealthy, which is perfectly fine, but terrible and illogical action and shooting gameplay shouldnt be the only way to punish players for making a mistake. ever played mgs5? ever played splinter cell? hitman just feels like a retarded rookie if a fight isnt avoidable...

AZAZEAL7A
2nd Jun 2016, 18:43
Like I said, there was no e.g. in the bit I quoted.

Like I said, do I have to signpost every ironic retort, you were being condescending so I returned the favour...what is so difficult to understand, you started it...



No, no, no. If you think I've been too harsh, then stand by that opinion and report it. Don't half-**** it. If you're gonna raise the issue then raise the issue. If not, then don't raise them at all.

There is nothing harsh about it, it's just constant and annoying...every post with someone expressing their dissatisfaction you are there with a condescending remark or a put down...You do it repeatedly until they go away, like you're trying to rule the forum lol...
If you don't like my retaliatory comebacks then don't start **** in the first place :rolleyes:



What is it you think you're doing a fine job of? I'm not seeing it...

It's self evident, however I suppose you see things from another perspective...you don't like things being thrown back in your face, again completely understandable...


You don't get what that's from? Ah ha, that explains alot :rolleyes:

Profit: a word from English language meaning 1) a financial gain 2) when someone gains a general advantage or benefit.

Speaking of which looks like I've got the advantage for the moment doesn't it, of course I expect you to disagree..."Disagree"...One of your favourite words isn't it :lmao:

AZAZEAL7A
2nd Jun 2016, 19:03
if you are so sure about how the game has to be played and what it is designed for and what not and if you are so damn good at the game that you dont even need some of the gameplay systems the game offers you, then all seems to be fine for you. But I can understand if some players are irritated by some of the worst gameplay mechanics out there. Of course hitman isn t a shooter action game and instead wants players to be stealthy, which is perfectly fine, but terrible and illogical action and shooting gameplay shouldnt be the only way to punish players for making a mistake. ever played mgs5? ever played splinter cell? hitman just feels like a retarded rookie if a fight isnt avoidable...

Exactly, hit the nail on the head...this 47 is like a little girl in comparison to those in previous games...

Jefthereaper/doomgeneration: Why is it that most people (musketeers) who defend the game are constantly being condescending to anyone who points out one of the games many...many flaws, it's unnecessary and childish...as if your way is the only way...

doom-generation
2nd Jun 2016, 21:13
Like I said, do I have to signpost every ironic retort, you were being condescending so I returned the favour...what is so difficult to understand, you started it...

I understand it perfectly well, your answer to your issue with me is to try to represent the same behaviour you accuse me off. Big clap for you.


There is nothing harsh about it, it's just constant and annoying...every post with someone expressing their dissatisfaction you are there with a condescending remark or a put down...You do it repeatedly until they go away, like you're trying to rule the forum lol...
If you don't like my retaliatory comebacks then don't start **** in the first place :rolleyes:

No, I just disagree with them and voice that disagreement. You don't have to like that, but it's tough luck for you. And I think you'll find that you were the one starting ****, actually; you jumped in on another forum users behalf and started whining. I said that If the user that I was talking to expressed offence at the remark I made then I'd apologise to them. I don't think I could say any fairer than that, but even though he hasn't expressed offence taken, that's somehow still not good enough for you. So don't accuse me of being the one starting **** when you have very clearly come in here with a bone to pick.


It's self evident, however I suppose you see things from another perspective...you don't like things being thrown back in your face, again completely understandable...

I love this "I'm doing such a good job at tearing you down that you can't handle it" mentality. :rolleyes:


Profit: a word from English language meaning 1) a financial gain 2) when someone gains a general advantage or benefit.

Speaking of which looks like I've got the advantage for the moment doesn't it, of course I expect you to disagree..."Disagree"...One of your favourite words isn't it :lmao:

Wow, that's embarrassing for you. It's a joke, mate. From South Park. It's kind of really well known. You're welcome. :p

kaneten
3rd Jun 2016, 04:54
Doom, the thing is your original response to this thread wasn't constructive. Quoting people and saying "disagree" without a counter argument or an attempt at discussion comes across as provocative.

Personally I never really used human shield much myself. But that doesn't mean if offends me when people ask to have it put back in haha.

AZAZEAL7A
3rd Jun 2016, 06:35
I understand it perfectly well, your answer to your issue with me is to try to represent the same behaviour you accuse me off. Big clap for you.

I knew you knew...and you knew that I knew that you knew, So the question begs...why did you get me to explain it to you then when it's just a waste of time?...because you're being deliberately problematic, just arguing for the sake of arguing...again...


No, I just disagree with them and voice that disagreement. You don't have to like that, but it's tough luck for you. And I think you'll find that you were the one starting ****, actually; you jumped in on another forum users behalf and started whining. I said that If the user that I was talking to expressed offence at the remark I made then I'd apologise to them. I don't think I could say any fairer than that, but even though he hasn't expressed offence taken, that's somehow still not good enough for you. So don't accuse me of being the one starting **** when you have very clearly come in here with a bone to pick.

You are the one picking, pulling and prodding people lol...i'm trying to swat you away like an annoying mosquito...you started it, every...single...time...just stop being a pest for goodness sake...


I love this "I'm doing such a good job at tearing you down that you can't handle it" mentality. :rolleyes:

As opposed to throwing your weight around as much as possible and constantly putting people down who "disagree" with you until they can't be bothered to post anything else mentality... :scratch:


Wow, that's embarrassing for you. It's a joke, mate. From South Park. It's kind of really well known. You're welcome. :p

What's embarrassing is you thinking that everyone lives in America and watches all the same TV shows as you :rolleyes:

AZAZEAL7A
3rd Jun 2016, 06:39
Doom, the thing is your original response to this thread wasn't constructive. Quoting people and saying "disagree" without a counter argument or an attempt at discussion comes across as provocative.

Personally I never really used human shield much myself. But that doesn't mean if offends me when people ask to have it put back in haha.

Thank you...

Dominemesis
3rd Jun 2016, 15:03
Fake surrender seems like it is a relic from previous games that no longer has a point. In previous hitman games you had a fair chance of gunfighting your way out, and as pointed out, with human shield you could set up a get away. In this game, gun fights are a super slim chance of winning, and without human shield it does feel pointless. But I never worried about it too much, as I try to avoid finding myself in a situation where I need to shoot my way out in Hitman. Like I said, the previous titles supported a better option, with better weapons and dual wielded silver ballers, for choosing to be a mass murdering ****head to get through levels if you wanted to roll like the Punisher. But this one seems to straight up favor the silent assassin entirely, not really supporting the alternative playstyle much at all anymore.

doom-generation
3rd Jun 2016, 18:43
Doom, the thing is your original response to this thread wasn't constructive. Quoting people and saying "disagree" without a counter argument or an attempt at discussion comes across as provocative.

Personally I never really used human shield much myself. But that doesn't mean if offends me when people ask to have it put back in haha.

Fair enough, maybe in that instance I could have made a better point, but that's not what AZAZEL7A has been saying to me. He seems to have issue with me disagreeing full stop, and this isn't the first thread he's done it in. Also, I was never referencing his posts, but someone else's. He jumped in when it didn't even concern him, looking to be pick me up on whatever.

And It doesn't offend me either. Never said it did.


I knew you knew...and you knew that I knew that you knew, So the question begs...why did you get me to explain it to you then when it's just a waste of time?...because you're being deliberately problematic, just arguing for the sake of arguing...again...

No, because you were trying to point out something that wasn't in what I quoted.


You are the one picking, pulling and prodding people lol...i'm trying to swat you away like an annoying mosquito...you started it, every...single...time...just stop being a pest for goodness sake...

How you figure that when you're the one trying to pick a fight with me I don't know. And again, I'm not "picking, pulling and prodding" anyone, just giving my opinion. You don't have to like it. I'm not being swatted anywhere, I'm not going to not give my opinion just because you have a problem with it.


As opposed to throwing your weight around as much as possible and constantly putting people down who "disagree" with you until they can't be bothered to post anything else mentality... :scratch:

What weight? I've no more weight in what I say than any other regular member. I'm not putting people down, or attacking them for their opinion. And I'm not "putting people down who "disagree" with you", but disagreeing and having you attack me for it.


What's embarrassing is you thinking that everyone lives in America and watches all the same TV shows as you :rolleyes:

Hey guess what, I don't live in America either, and silly me for thinking most people have seen at least some South Park... :rolleyes:

AZAZEAL7A
4th Jun 2016, 07:41
I "Disagree"...but it's like talking to a brick wall, so I guess we'll just have to crown you king of the forum...All hail Doomgeneration...Master of annoyance...Lord of disagreement...Sovereign of condescendence...let him walk amongst us in as many threads as possible and always get his way... :worship:

Don't get it?...game of thrones, kind of really well known mate... :rolleyes:

THE END

AZAZEAL7A
4th Jun 2016, 10:03
Fake surrender seems like it is a relic from previous games that no longer has a point. In previous hitman games you had a fair chance of gunfighting your way out, and as pointed out, with human shield you could set up a get away. In this game, gun fights are a super slim chance of winning, and without human shield it does feel pointless. But I never worried about it too much, as I try to avoid finding myself in a situation where I need to shoot my way out in Hitman. Like I said, the previous titles supported a better option, with better weapons and dual wielded silver ballers, for choosing to be a mass murdering ****head to get through levels if you wanted to roll like the Punisher. But this one seems to straight up favor the silent assassin entirely, not really supporting the alternative playstyle much at all anymore.

Meaning it's not the hitman we all know and love...hitman is supposed to be the best assassin in the world in a black suit with a red tie, bald head with a barcode on the back, black gloves, dual silverballers, hidden sniper in a briefcase, tough as titanium nails and smart as hell...
This is the character they should have built the game around, they said that they were going back to the classic hitman style...apparently this doesn't mean keeping the same classic hitman character though...

Frater000
4th Jun 2016, 13:51
Ignoring the petty nonsense....I'd just like to say having this feature back would be great.!
Fake surrender is great for closing distance but isn't all that useful when your facing more then 2 opponents.

BUT......are the games systems prepared to handle that? Would NPCs know how to react? would they just shoot through the sheild? What if your holding a civilian? How about a VIP? How would the guards react?

doom-generation
4th Jun 2016, 14:50
I "Disagree"...but it's like talking to a brick wall, so I guess we'll just have to crown you king of the forum...All hail Doomgeneration...Master of annoyance...Lord of disagreement...Sovereign of condescendence...let him walk amongst us in as many threads as possible and always get his way... :worship:

Don't get it?...game of thrones, kind of really well known mate... :rolleyes:

THE END

Do you think that is acceptable? Wow, ok....

Driber
4th Jun 2016, 17:22
Closed pending review.

Driber
5th Jun 2016, 14:47
Thread re-opened.


Still condescending as ever I see

He wasn't. He was obviously just teasing. Also, his comment was not directed at you. Doom was responding to jimbianco. Stop going around looking for trouble on other people's behalf. It's not helpful to anyone.


Then stop insulting people lol, my goodness...How is that not being completely condescending to jimbianco and anyone else who wants the human shield? I guarantee you he didn't find it funny either...little one...

What is condescending is taking offense on jimbianco's behalf, as if he's some child who cannot stand up for himself and needs you to come to his defense.


You are deliberately prodding people trying to get a reaction

I don't believe that is what Doom is doing.


then when people do react you tell them to calm down because it was only a joke lol...

Well it obviously was a joke. So it makes sense to tell people to calm down when they overreact to a joke.


What's the point of reporting lol? You and the admin's are best buddy's, in cahoots if you will...they will always take your side because they like having their little musketeers defending the game on every other post...

Oh yeah doom and I are total BFF's. We have sleep overs and pillow fights on a weekly basis. Also, he's secretly working for the company and getting paid to speak positively about the game. Whoops, did I just say that out loud?


There is nothing harsh about it, it's just constant and annoying...every post with someone expressing their dissatisfaction you are there with a condescending remark or a put down...You do it repeatedly until they go away, like you're trying to rule the forum lol...
If you don't like my retaliatory comebacks then don't start **** in the first place :rolleyes:

Except he didn't do anything wrong; that "get better" line was an obvious joke. And jimbianco seemed to get it and not have a problem with it. So this whole "retaliation" of yours was in fact you picking a fight. For no good reason.


Speaking of which looks like I've got the advantage for the moment doesn't it, of course I expect you to disagree..."Disagree"...One of your favourite words isn't it :lmao:

Mocking people for disagreeing. This just shows how intolerant and mean spirited you are.


Exactly, hit the nail on the head...this 47 is like a little girl in comparison to those in previous games...

Jefthereaper/doomgeneration: Why is it that most people (musketeers) who defend the game are constantly being condescending to anyone who points out one of the games many...many flaws, it's unnecessary and childish...as if your way is the only way...

What is unnecessary is following people like Doom around wherever he goes, like a tick, always jumping on him the second he posts something open to interpretation, taking offense, and then drawing it out into a huge fight.

What is childish is using other members who agree with you (or with some of your points) as a springboard to attack people.


Doom, the thing is your original response to this thread wasn't constructive. Quoting people and saying "disagree" without a counter argument or an attempt at discussion comes across as provocative.

You have a point there, kaneten. Merely responding with "disagree" can indeed be unconstructive. And to some people it can come across as provocative, although I doubt that was Doom's intent. But it must be pointed out that is in no way a justification for AZAZEAL7A behaviour in this thread.


You are the one picking, pulling and prodding people lol...i'm trying to swat you away like an annoying mosquito...you started it, every...single...time...just stop being a pest for goodness sake...

Just because you find people annoying doesn't give you the right to "swat them away". You're the one who made it into a huge issue. jimbianco didn't voice any problem with Doom's joke, so you're the one picking, pulling and prodding here, not Doom. You took a virtually innocuous joke and turned it into smear campaign of Doom's character. And somehow even involving me into this mess. The only one who is being problematic here is you.


What's embarrassing is you thinking that everyone lives in America and watches all the same TV shows as you :rolleyes:

I don't live in America and I got his joke right from the start. Just saying.


I "Disagree"...but it's like talking to a brick wall, so I guess we'll just have to crown you king of the forum...All hail Doomgeneration...Master of annoyance...Lord of disagreement...Sovereign of condescendence...let him walk amongst us in as many threads as possible and always get his way... :worship:

Don't get it?...game of thrones, kind of really well known mate... :rolleyes:

THE END

Holy crap :eek: Wow, this post just takes the cake. That was totally crossing the line and completely uncalled for.

AZAZEAL7A, I'm suspending you for this and your other highly antagonizing posts attacking Doom in this thread. Come back with a less combative attitude.

Next time you have a problem with Doom's, or anyone else's post, report it instead of publicly picking fights with your fellow members and completely derailing threads. If you continue in this manner, you may end up permanently banned next time. You've been warned.

---

Now, I want the fighting to end here. Back on topic, everyone. Or take your grievances into PM with the relevant person.

AZAZEAL7A
12th Jun 2016, 16:59
Driber


He wasn't. He was obviously just teasing. Also, his comment was not directed at you. Doom was responding to jimbianco. Stop going around looking for trouble on other people's behalf. It's not helpful to anyone.

It was condescending and insulting to anyone who wants the human shield back, I was not the only one to read it that way...and I don't go around looking for trouble, i've only ever had two arguments on this forum (this one and one other on another thread)...both with doom...


What is condescending is taking offense on jimbianco's behalf, as if he's some child who cannot stand up for himself and needs you to come to his defense.

I found it condescending and insulting so I said something, it had nothing to do with jimbianco so don't try to make it seem like I was trying to make him look like a child...


I don't believe that is what Doom is doing.

Of course you don't, you see things from his perspective so you don't find it insulting...but others do...


Well it obviously was a joke. So it makes sense to tell people to calm down when they overreact to a joke.

Yes it was a joke at the expense of anyone who wanted the human shield back, I don't believe I over reacted...at least at first anyway...


Oh yeah doom and I are total BFF's. We have sleep overs and pillow fights on a weekly basis. Also, he's secretly working for the company and getting paid to speak positively about the game. Whoops, did I just say that out loud?

With all due respect, you did take his side as I thought you would...I take it this comment is why you took such offence and banned me for a week...


Except he didn't do anything wrong; that "get better" line was an obvious joke. And jimbianco seemed to get it and not have a problem with it. So this whole "retaliation" of yours was in fact you picking a fight. For no good reason.

Except he did do something wrong, you just don't see it that way...and (from my perspective) jimbianco more than likely just couldn't be bothered to make an appropriate retort, anyway none of what followed had anything to do with him...responding to a condescending joke can not be classified as picking a fight...


Mocking people for disagreeing. This just shows how intolerant and mean spirited you are.

He used the word "disagree" constantly so it's entirely understandable that people start to find it annoying...so calling me "Intolerant and mean-spirited" is quite frankly ridiculous, it can also be considered as "flaming" as well...not following your own rules...


What is unnecessary is following people like Doom around wherever he goes, like a tick, always jumping on him the second he posts something open to interpretation, taking offense, and then drawing it out into a huge fight.

What is childish is using other members who agree with you (or with some of your points) as a springboard to attack people.

You accuse me of "following doom around wherever he goes" when (as I mentioned above) we have only ever had two arguments, meaning that accusation was utter nonsense, I do not follow people around looking for opportunities to start a fight...I have only posted 40 times on this forum, doom has posted over 500 times so it's not surprising that when I post on a thread he's already been there...also he always seems to be on the threads with people expressing their dissatisfaction with the game, always using the word "disagree" and sometimes even accompanying it with a snide joke (like what happened here)...


You have a point there, kaneten. Merely responding with "disagree" can indeed be unconstructive. And to some people it can come across as provocative, although I doubt that was Doom's intent. But it must be pointed out that is in no way a justification for AZAZEAL7A behaviour in this thread.

Kaneten does have a point, it did indeed come across as provocative...who knows how doom intended it to come across, but it seems to me that it was deliberate...so what was dooms justification for acting the way he did?...you and doom quite simply do not have the moral high ground, and banning me for "flaming" when doom is guilty of exactly the same thing (now you are too) and in fact was the one who ignited this entire confrontation...You shouldn't have penalised me and let him get off without even getting so much as a slap on the wrist, to do so was incredibly biased...


Just because you find people annoying doesn't give you the right to "swat them away". You're the one who made it into a huge issue. jimbianco didn't voice any problem with Doom's joke, so you're the one picking, pulling and prodding here, not Doom. You took a virtually innocuous joke and turned it into smear campaign of Doom's character. And somehow even involving me into this mess. The only one who is being problematic here is you.

"You're the one who made it into a huge issue" i'm pretty sure it was a team effort and it was a gradual escalation...doom is the one picking pulling and prodding in so many threads, so I decided to rebuff one (just one) of his condescending remarks "jokes" back at him...doom is the one being problematic and you are being completely biased...


I don't live in America and I got his joke right from the start. Just saying.

I remember reading on another thread something about doom being embarrassed to call Trump "president Trump" so I naturally assumed that he was American, I mean who would be embarrassed to call Trump "president Trump" if they're not American?...(most other people wouldn't really care)...
Moving on to the Southpark joke, you got it?...good for you, you obviously watch it yourself (at least more than I have)...


Holy crap :eek: Wow, this post just takes the cake. That was totally crossing the line and completely uncalled for.

AZAZEAL7A, I'm suspending you for this and your other highly antagonizing posts attacking Doom in this thread. Come back with a less combative attitude.

Next time you have a problem with Doom's, or anyone else's post, report it instead of publicly picking fights with your fellow members and completely derailing threads. If you continue in this manner, you may end up permanently banned next time. You've been warned.

---

Now, I want the fighting to end here. Back on topic, everyone. Or take your grievances into PM with the relevant person.

I admit, maybe I crossed the line on this one, however I would not go so far as to say that it wasn't exactly entirely uncalled for though...Again you should not have just punished me and not him, he was the one being "antagonising" and I was not "attacking" I was responding/retaliating to his constant "disagreements" and "jokes"...Next time be more impartial, and I recommend not "flaming" me for "flaming" someone else for igniting the "flame" in the first place...It's hypocritical and slightly ridiculous to boot, obviously I couldn't allow such injustice to go unanswered...

Again what is the point of me reporting doom when you see things from his perspective, you like having the Musketeers defending your game...I did not derail this thread, I tried no less than five times (feel free to count) to get things back on topic but doom would not have it, constantly coming back and making things worse...
Threatening to permanently ban me and being completely one-sided when I don't believe I have done anything wrong (not much anyway) is not the best way to solve this little debacle...

Now we can get back on topic, providing of course you don't permanently ban me for saying my peace...if you do I obviously won't be coming back, but I hope that we can resolve this without resorting to any more unpleasantness...

AZAZEAL7A
12th Jun 2016, 17:51
I've change my mind, I have no intention of making peace with either of you (like you wouldn't have banned me instantly after reading my previous post, even though all of it was entirely justified...you are rude, insulting, condescending, biased and downright unreasonable...
I honestly don't care what you do Driber i've decided that I won't be coming back either way, complete waste of time and I'll be better off being rid of the lot of you...also any emails you sent me will be thrown (unopened) unceremoniously into the fire so to speak, I'm not interested and won't be reading anything more you have to say...

Commenting on this forum is pointless...nothing I or others like me say in here ever changes anything about the game, all we get is the silent treatment from the devs and people coming up with the most ridiculous arguments to defend the game...see "silenced sniperrifle is useless" thread for a perfect example (just read it myself)...The silent sniper rifle has a broken mechanic allowing guards to know roughly where you are (in other words it's not silent), people are trying to defend it saying "it's realistic"...rubbish they just messed up the mechanics that's all...
Notice doom was there defending the game again, at least he's not chanting "disagree disagree disagree" anymore...my point still stands that which ever thread I go on doom has usually been there first lol...

Here's hoping the next hitman (if there is a next hitman) is actually given justice, unlike this poor shoddy excuse...If agent 47 was real he would be ashamed, he might even have assassinate himself to put him out of his misery...

To those still fighting the good fight: sorry but you really are just wasting your time, they won't listen to reason or even play fair when it comes to disagreements...I however wish you good luck and a fond farewell...

Driber
12th Jun 2016, 18:46
temp closed

Driber
12th Jun 2016, 23:08
I think this sentence right here - "also any emails you sent me will be thrown (unopened) unceremoniously into the fire so to speak, I'm not interested and won't be reading anything more you have to say..." - says all anyone needs to know about who the unreasonable person here is.

I'm sorry to hear you changed your mind, AZAZEAL7A. Honestly. Your previous to last post I actually appreciated because it showed maturity, and I was more than willing to forget about all of this and move onward and upward. But then you spoiled it with that last post and doubled down on your baseless accusations and your unwarranted hate campaign against Doom. A real shame.

Oh and regarding the "devs not listening to feedback" bit - check out the latest sticky threads at the top of the forum and you'll find proof that you're incorrect. The devs are most certainly listening, and working on fixes to bugs and implementing changes based on people's feedback.



In case there is still part of you open to reason (I see you're still refreshing the page even though you said you left, so I'm guessing you're still somewhat interested in the responses to your posts) below is my response to your previous to last post. But if your prejudice has fully taken over (I'm not being snarky) and you're truly done, then feel free to ignore it, I guess. In that case it'll be here just for closure/clarity sake.



It was condescending and insulting to anyone who wants the human shield back, I was not the only one to read it that way...and I don't go around looking for trouble, i've only ever had two arguments on this forum (this one and one other on another thread)...both with doom...

If Doom was dead serious, then I can see you might have a point. But he was clearly just joking. It was a gaming inside joke, BTW. If he had said that to me, I would've laughed about it, or just shugged it off and not given it a second thought. I think you got easily offended because you were already having a prejudice against Doom, as indicated by this line - "Notice doom was there defending the game again, at least he's not chanting "disagree disagree disagree" anymore...my point still stands that which ever thread I go on doom has usually been there first lol..."

You clearly have a chip on your shoulder against Doom. That's why you took his innocuous joke to heart.

Yes, you're not the only one who took his joke to heart. I am aware of the fact that there are more people who have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to Doom. I guess it's because people are pissed off at the devs and they can't stand people defending the game. People feel they can't reach the devs, so they take it out on innocent people who defend the game. It's called scapegoating and it's an entirely unreasonable stance to take. Doom, and anyone else, can defend the game all they want. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. Nor is there anything wrong with people criticizing the game. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I wish people would be more tolerant towards other people's views and not try to shame people for not sharing the exact same opinions as them. It's very narrow-minded if you ask me.


I found it condescending and insulting so I said something, it had nothing to do with jimbianco so don't try to make it seem like I was trying to make him look like a child...

No, I didn't say that you were trying to make jimbianco look like a child, I'm saying that you're effectively treating him like a child by taking offense on his behalf when for all you know he was perfectly fine with Doom's joke. And not only him, but you're taking offense on behalf of everyone who wants the human shield back. You're trying to speak for people, assuming that everyone agrees with you. That is condescending.


Of course you don't, you see things from his perspective so you don't find it insulting...but others do...

I see things from my own perspective. And I don't need to play the "we" card to put said perspective forward. I speak for myself because that is good enough. If others agree with me, great. If they don't, that's fine. It doesn't discredit my position.


With all due respect, you did take his side as I thought you would...

Yes, I sided with the party in this argument who was in the right. I did the same with Imma a while ago when he was in the right for a change and Doom was in the wrong. It's like I'm... impartial or something.


I take it this comment is why you took such offence and banned me for a week...

Actually, I didn't find it offensive in the slightest. I just ran with it because it was silly if anything. It didn't bother me.

And I already explained why you were banned for a week; it wasn't for that comment, no.


Except he did do something wrong, you just don't see it that way...

Except he didn't do anything wrong, you just see it that way...

Look, we can do this until the cows come home. The fact of the matter is that he was clearly joking, you even said so yourself. I really don't think it's worth getting so upset over a mere joke.


and (from my perspective) jimbianco more than likely just couldn't be bothered to make an appropriate retort

Still trying to speak on others' behalf and making assumptions about them being insulted, I see.


anyway none of what followed had anything to do with him...

Exactly my point - it has nothing to do with him, the person whom the joke was targeted at! I find it hard to believe you still cannot understand how wrong that is. The joke wasn't even aimed at you.


responding to a condescending joke can not be classified as picking a fight...

Except it's not condescending if it's a joke. He wasn't seriously touting his own horn that he's better than other people.


He used the word "disagree" constantly so it's entirely understandable that people start to find it annoying...so calling me "Intolerant and mean-spirited" is quite frankly ridiculous, it can also be considered as "flaming" as well...not following your own rules...

Only intolerant people would get annoyed by someone saying they disagree often. People can disagree with me all they want, I don't give a hoot. I just let them be. Or I engage in discussion if I think it's worth it. If not, I just move on.

Doom and I actually had a long discussion the other day and the disagreed with me with just about every single post in the discussion, lol. His constant disagreements didn't bother me.


You accuse me of "following doom around wherever he goes" when (as I mentioned above) we have only ever had two arguments, meaning that accusation was utter nonsense, I do not follow people around looking for opportunities to start a fight...I have only posted 40 times on this forum, doom has posted over 500 times so it's not surprising that when I post on a thread he's already been there...

If that's true (haven't checked, but I'll take your word for it) then fair point. I may have lumped you in with those who do seem to be following him around like a tick and getting into fights with him. Apologies for that. My bad.


also he always seems to be on the threads with people expressing their dissatisfaction with the game, always using the word "disagree"

I fail to see how this is supposed to be a wrong thing. He can post whatever he wants. So can you. As long as you both abide by the ToU. If you don't like Doom's posts, then ignore them. If he's violating the ToU, report him. Simple.


and sometimes even accompanying it with a snide joke (like what happened here)...

I haven't read every single one of those 500 posts you said you posted, but if his other jokes are as innoculous as the one here I don't have a problem with it. Feel free to poke him back. I would.


Kaneten does have a point, it did indeed come across as provocative...

To you. Not to me.


who knows how doom intended it to come across

Right, you don't know. Yet you seem fine to chastise him as if you did know.


, but it seems to me that it was deliberate...so what was dooms justification for acting the way he did?...you and doom quite simply do not have the moral high ground, and banning me for "flaming" when doom is guilty of exactly the same thing (now you are too) and in fact was the one who ignited this entire confrontation...You shouldn't have penalised me and let him get off without even getting so much as a slap on the wrist, to do so was incredibly biased...

I closed the thread for a day so that I could review all posts, which I did and I found nothing coming even close to your level of aggression. You really took it too far, for which you were suspended. Doom wasn't innocent but none of his posts were infraction worthy. If you disagree, feel free to report the relevant post(s) and I'll take a second look.

And no, Doom didn't ignite anything. If you thought his post was crossing the line, you should have reported it and let the staff handle the situation, instead of getting into a whole big public fight over it. You ignited the fight.


"You're the one who made it into a huge issue" i'm pretty sure it was a team effort and it was a gradual escalation...doom is the one picking pulling and prodding in so many threads, so I decided to rebuff one (just one) of his condescending remarks "jokes" back at him...doom is the one being problematic and you are being completely biased...

You're right, the argument itself was a team effort, which is why I said earlier that Doom wasn't innocent. However, you could have avoided it in the first place by simply reporting his post and letting the staff handle it. Plus you took it way too far.

As for the gradual escalation, I see that mainly being your fault. Doom was for the most part merely defending against your constant aggressive attacks which kept getting worse with every new post.

And what Doom may or may not have done in other threads is irrelevant to this one.


I remember reading on another thread something about doom being embarrassed to call Trump "president Trump" so I naturally assumed that he was American, I mean who would be embarrassed to call Trump "president Trump" if they're not American?...(most other people wouldn't really care)...
Moving on to the Southpark joke, you got it?...good for you, you obviously watch it yourself (at least more than I have)...

I'm not sure if that was Doom or someone else, but if so then my guess would be because we are all citizens of planet earth and because what happens in America greatly influences the rest of the world.


I admit, maybe I crossed the line on this one, however I would not go so far as to say that it wasn't exactly entirely uncalled for though...Again you should not have just punished me and not him, he was the one being "antagonising" and I was not "attacking" I was responding/retaliating to his constant "disagreements" and "jokes"...Next time be more impartial, and I recommend not "flaming" me for "flaming" someone else for igniting the "flame" in the first place...It's hypocritical and slightly ridiculous to boot, obviously I couldn't allow such injustice to go unanswered...

I wasn't flaming you. There was no aggression or hostility in me politely and calmly voicing my opinion that mocking people for disagreeing shows intolerance and mean-spiritedness.


Again what is the point of me reporting doom when you see things from his perspective, you like having the Musketeers defending your game...I did not derail this thread, I tried no less than five times (feel free to count) to get things back on topic but doom would not have it, constantly coming back and making things worse...
Threatening to permanently ban me and being completely one-sided when I don't believe I have done anything wrong (not much anyway) is not the best way to solve this little debacle...

A warning is not the same thing as a threat. Big difference, actually.

And it's not my game. I've got no dog in this fight.


Now we can get back on topic, providing of course you don't permanently ban me for saying my peace...if you do I obviously won't be coming back, but I hope that we can resolve this without resorting to any more unpleasantness...

I won't ban you for that post, no. Although you said a lot of inacurate things, it was for the most part a civil and mature post, which I appreciate. I think that had you approached Doom the way you approached me in this post we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

FWIW, I'm up for resolving it, too.

And I have a feeling Doom is, as well. Just a hunch.... you know, us being BFFs and all ;)