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Vanguard
6th Jul 2002, 19:08
This is the third thread in the series of Ghost/Perfect Thief results for FM's. The prior threads have been archived at:<br><br>Part 1: http://forums.eidosgames.com/old-ubb/FMs_Ghost_Perfect_Thief_Results_Part1_1.htm<br>Part 2: http://forums.eidosgames.com/old-ubb/FMs_Ghost_Perfect_Thief_Results_Part2_1.htm<br>
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This thread will be used to post the results of players' attempts at ghosting fan missions (FMs) whether wholly successful or not. Rules regarding Ghost and Perfect Thief play modes can be found in the Thief archive.

Recorded in each message is the FM name, the user's play mode (Ghost or Perfect Thief), the end-mission statistics, and any comments regarding the ghosting of the fan mission.

<blockquote><b>WARNING: Discussions regarding how some or all of the mission was ghosted means there may be spoilers contained herein.</b><br>
<small>If you want to simply know if a mission was ghosted successfully or not, just read the statistics portion of a message.</small></blockquote>
To prevent this thread from becoming excessively long and forcing readers to span many pages to read the results, this thread should be closed when its length reaches 5 pages whereupon a new "Part n+1" thread is started. The moderator(s) will then be requested to move the old thread into the Thief archive to close it so it is retained as a lookup reference.

Replying to a reported result herein is appropriate but hurrah messages should be eliminated or kept to a minimum. Discussing how to ghost something in a mission not yet reported here should be opened in a separate thread. The idea is to report successful ghost attempts and perhaps discuss failures and possible solutions but not to incur a lot of fluff within this thread.

Please note that nobody requires a mission to be ghostable, and comments herein about whether or not a mission is ghostable do not reflect negatively on the mission. No mission is required to be ghostable. Ghosting is just a means of raising the level of difficulty in playing the mission.

Vanguard
6th Jul 2002, 19:23
FM: Airship
File: 64airsh.zip

Play mode: Ghost (successful - and Perfect Thief'ed, too)
Time: 8 min
Loot: 849 of 849 (700 required)
Pockets picked: 3 of 4
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0
Secrets: 0 of 0

Comments:
-- This was a small and straight forward ghosting mission.
-- The hardest part was trying to get back into the crate where you started to end the mission. I kept getting snagged at the bottom edge of the large crate when trying to waddle on in. I had to stand, walk at the crate's opening until I collided with it top edge, then crouch and waddle in.
-- I think the pickpocket stat is wrong. There was nothing left on any of the guards to snatch. And I got all the loot.
-- When I grabbed the last purse, the 700 loot objective checked off but then I had 849 in loot which is the max, so I suspect that the loot objective actually requires that you Perfect Thief this FM.

Vanguard
6th Jul 2002, 21:44
FM: 5-minute Thieve's Guild
File: 64five.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: 25 min
Loot: 295 of 300 (200 required)
Pockets picked: 2 of 2
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0

Comments:
-- I had to nudge a guard away from the fireplace.
-- Could not get off the ladder without jumping although it reaches all the way to the ground. Fortunately the clayman didn't hear me land.
-- Plucking the glowing mushrooms is necessary when you get close to the clayman, but don't pick any others. The author didn't set any ambient light level so you'll end up completely in the black if you pluck all the mushrooms.
-- Getting past the clayman was tricky because the last light emanates from a pylon that you cannot darken. I had to crouch and sneak very, very slowly past the clayman. Got a first alert going past both ways.
- Couldn't find the last 5 in loot. I had plucked the glowing mushrooms and everywhere was completely black in the tunnels.

Vanguard
7th Jul 2002, 02:44
FM: The Turtle
File: 64turtl.zip

Play mode: Ghost (failed)
Time: 25 min
Loot: 1115 of 1195 (1000 required)
Pockets picked: 1 of 3
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 7 Healing: 0
Killed: 0
Secrets: 0 of 0

Cause(s) of failure:
-- Guard at bottom sees behind his back, full alerts, and damages you.

Comments:
-- The pickpocket stat is wrong. Items were placed on dead bodies but the game engine doesn't count lifting items off dead (or unconcious) bodies as pickpocketing.
-- Down a level from where you start are completely submerged passageways where an archer guard patrols. There is a closet room with a gas mine against the back wall that will damage you if you get to close to the chest (unless you stay against the front or passageway side wall). However, this same gas mine will damage you *through* the wall if you go into the room on the other side and get near the wall.
-- Where you use the cog key to get to the bottom level is a guard that is always on full alert. You didn't put him on alert. He was configured to always be on full alert. He will never go off full alert.
-- The author also made it nearly impossible to get past this last guard. Often when swimming behind him, he still sees behind his back and so he hits you with arrows. I did manage once in over a dozen tries to get into the backroom and past this guy but the limited air supply in this completely submerged room never gave me enough time to manage to get past him while trying to get back out (again, he sees a lot more than 180 degrees or triggers on your "swimming noise").
-- There are a lot of "sharp" edges in this bottom room with the always fully alert guard. You get snagged in LOTS of places. Just getting through the entrance to this room proves difficult and delayed because of excessive snagging. I'd be sufficiently below the ceiling (which was the floor in this overturned ship) and still couldn't swim through the entrance. I suspect that some boundaries are farther than visually shown and spots are overly tight. I'd be away from all walls and still had difficulty in dropping the sunburst bomb that I managed sneak away from the active land mine; I'd get that ploonk sound when you try to drop something but it would stay in inventory because you were too close to a design boundary.
-- All weapons are usless against this last guard (when not ghosting the mission). You can't use the fire arrow; can't draw the bow when in water and fire arrows extinguish in water. I had to press against the floor in order to be able to toss the sunburst bomb at this guard's feet. I could toss the land mine right at his feet, you'd hear it buzz and then set, but it would never explode. I tried several times but could never get the land mine to trigger from this guard. The flash mines sitting and set at his feet also would not trigger. Even when not ghosting, there's no way to take this guy out.
-- There was an unpickable door down here at the bottom (which is the top of the overturned boat) that I could not open. I found a key on a dead Mechanist on the ocean bottom but that only opened an unpickable plain wood chest. I did not find another key to open this other door. Since I was short of the max loot, it's probably behind this door.

Vanguard
13th Jul 2002, 23:25
FM: After the Party
File: c3aftertheparty.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success) - Perfect Thief, too (forced by objective)
Time: 18 min
Loot: 1135 of 1135 (1135 required)
Pockets picked: 2 of 3
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0
Secrets: 0 of 0

Comments:
-- Normal is the only difficulty available.
-- You are required to get ALL loot. The hardest to find was a ring behind a chair.
-- You find a water arrow but the only place it is usable is on the fireplace (and I didn't need it there). You cannot douse candles.
-- In the upper floor bedroom, picking the lockbox or opening the closet door with its key sets off the sleeping AIs. You need to press against the sliding closet door when using the key so you can slide into the closet and out of sight of the AIs that wake up. Both AIs will turn away from you so you can open the lockbox and get back out.
-- I tried getting out the front doors because they would like up when approached (i.e., they were frobbable). But they could not be picked nor is there a key for them. Turns out you're supposed to returned close to where you started to complete the mission.
-- The pickpocket stat is wrong. There was nothing left on any AI when I finished the game.

Vanguard
14th Jul 2002, 00:28
FM: Akhenten's Tomb
File: c3akhentenstomb.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: 7 min
Loot: 950 of 950 (700 required)
Pockets picked: 1 of 2
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0
Secrets: 0 of 0

Comments:
-- There are no objectives when you start the mission. They appear after you start playing.
-- There are coins atop one casket and a ring atop another that are very hard to see.
-- There is a bug cloud. You may need to repeat running through it to get past without damage.
-- The pickpocket stat must be wrong. The only AIs in this mission are the zombies and spiders. The only AI carrying anything was the one toting the earth talisman.
-- The mission will not end although all objectives are checked off. Going back to where I started did not end it, either. So I had to hit Ctrl-Shift-Alt-End to force the mission to end.

Vanguard
14th Jul 2002, 02:59
FM: Breaking and Entering
File: c3breakingandentering.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: 9 min
Loot: 0 of 0 (0 required)
Pockets picked: 0 of 2
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0
Secrets: 0 of 0

Comments:
-- Fairly straightforward ghosting. I got the key off the corpse but it took longer to find the bronze gear (didn't see it on the other side of the corpse since I was crouching to sneak behind the apebeast.
-- The pickpocket stat is wrong. The apebeasts aren't carrying anything. You cannot pickpocket from a corpse. There are no other AIs.

Vanguard
14th Jul 2002, 03:27
FM Deceptive Perception
File: c3deceptiveperception.zip

Play mode: Ghost (failed)


The only difficulty level is Easy.

The stats are of no value. This one has poltergeists trashing the place as you wander around. The last paper scrap has zombies spawn all around you (so there is no way to ghost this) and the game ends (so you can't even try to jump on the desk and break the window to escape the zombies).

I got stuck in this FM for awhile because it uses a trigger spot that I would rarely traverse. You need to walk over the corpse to trigger the rest of the AIs to spawn (the big green spider and the living AI at the office). I rarely walk over corpses since they might pop up as zombies; zombies usually groan when you get near them as they awaken but sometimes the customized ones don't do anything until you're atop of them.

The music is way, WAY too loud. At the beginning, I had to turn down the volume. However, at the end, it is so loud that I had to hit the mute button on my multimedia keyboard to save my ears.

Vanguard
14th Jul 2002, 03:40
FM: Dedicated to TTLG
File: c3dedicatedtothepeopleofttlg.zip

Play mode: Doesn't matter
Other stats: Unimportant

Comments:
-- There are no objectives.
-- This is NOT a Thief mission. You wander around to read a bunch of books that show a list of words for each character in a TTLG forum member's name (actually their handle at TTLG).

Vanguard
14th Jul 2002, 07:03
FM: Eastwater Bank
File: c3eastwaterbank.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: 46 min
Loot: 2010 of 2085 (2000 required)
Pockets picked: 4 of 5
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0
Secrets: 7 of 7

Comments:
-- There is only one difficulty level: Normal.
-- Many of the pushbutton switches for the secrets are not just hard to see because they are very small but some require you to contort to see it, like around a desk and over a chair.
-- Pretty straightforward ghosting. Turning off the lights is required to move around. Guards will bump into you and walk around if you are completely dark and crouched.

Vanguard
14th Jul 2002, 08:22
FM: First City Bank & Trust & Annex
File: c3firstcitybanktrustannex.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: 21 min
Loot: 5066 of 5126 (5000 required)
Pockets picked: 1 of 2
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0
Secrets: 0 of 0

Comments:
-- Most of my time was spent trying to figure out the combination to lower the safe door bolt. There are no scrolls, books, or paper to read in this FM so you have to guess at the combination. Combination: middle in, bottom in and then top in (or other way around), and then middle out.
-- Getting past the sword guard was tough. You have to follow on his tail as he goes up the stairs. But he turns both ways when he stops: sometimes he turns to the left, sometimes to the right. So you'll have to save and try several times until you happen to pick the side that he will turn away from. Turns out the only thing up there is an office with a switch to turn off the watcher. But then I can get into the vault with the watcher left on.
-- The pickpocket stat is wrong. There are only 2 guards, and only one has a key to lift.

Vanguard
14th Jul 2002, 18:14
FM: The Golden Skull of Lord Frobb
File: c3goldenskulloflordfrobb.zip

I won't bother reporting stats. This mission is way to small to bother. You run down some stairs to one room to snatch a gold skull and go back up the stairs. That's it.

There are 2 checkboxes in the objectives neither of which have any text to describe them. Taking the skull checks off the first undescribed objective. Getting back to the top of the stairs checks off the 2nd undescribed objective.

There is an area in the corner of the room with the haunt in the corner where shearing (i.e., the fluttering hall-o-mirrors effect) is severe when leaning around the pillar or just when looking past it. In fact, in can get so severe that the game will freeze and you will need to reboot your computer.

Lighting is far less than what is indicated by the light gem; i.e., the mission is very dark but you are not. Sometimes I will use dromed to up the lighting level but this mission is too small FM to bother. I couldn't ghost the mission. I don't know if it was because if was overly bright in an almost black area and the haunts spotted me, or if I hit a boundary trigger that sets them off. Doesn't matter, though; if you're not ghosting, the haunts are absolutely of no threat. They will not move from their positions even when fully alerted. Only if you deliberately get close enough could they reach you with their hammers.

You must play in Ironman mode. Reloads of saved games will crash Thief and dump you back to the Windows desktop.

Lytha
14th Jul 2002, 18:28
Vanguard,

the pickpocket bug has been around since Thief II was released. This is not a bug of the FMs alone, so no need to repeat it for every of the missions. :)

Vanguard
14th Jul 2002, 19:33
FM: The Keepers Are Thirsty
File: c3keepersarethirsty.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time 29 min
Loot: 350 of 750
Picked pockets: 2 of 3
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0
Secrets: 0 of 0

Comments:
-- The pickpocket stat is wrong. I want back and found no other guards had anything to lift. Probably why the loot stat is off, too.
-- Lots of guards. But crouching while completely dark has them bump into you and go around you.

Vanguard
14th Jul 2002, 19:43
FM: Mind Master
File: c3mindmaster.zip

Play mode: Doesn't matter

This is NOT a *Thief* mission. You cannot move (other than to rotate in place) and play a game to get 4 colors selected in the right order. Even when you get a match and win, the mission doesn't end; you have to lift the cover plate to end the mission (which results in an abort rather than a win).

Vanguard
14th Jul 2002, 19:53
FM: Night's Recourse
File: c3nightsrecourse.zip

Play mode: Normal

This is a fight FM. You cannot ghost it - except, I suppose, that the objectives say that you are supposed to take on the intruders. However, touching one of them in the living room alerts a whole bunch of them so you cannot take them out one at a time without alerting the others.

Vanguard
14th Jul 2002, 21:50
FM: Old Comrades, Old Debts
File: c3oldcomradesolddebts.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success) - Perfect Thief'ed, too
Time: 34 min
Loot: 140 of 140 (none required)
Pockets picked: 3 of 4
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0
Secrets: 0 of 0

Comments:
-- The only difficulty level is Normal.
-- Starts with a glowing spider at your feet. I kept trying to dodge it until I realized that the spiders don't attack. They just affect the lighting by their glow.
-- The ringleader's key was hard to find. I kept looking where a key might be left but turns out it was dropped by the fountain.
-- Trying to get out into the tunnels proved very hard to do without incurring damage. You flip an electrical switch that is sparking to ignite some powder kegs, and after a short pause then the powder kegs on the other side of the basement room explode. I downed the speed potion, flipped the switch, ran away from the switch so the blast on that side of the room didn't hurt me, then I'd run to that side of the room so the powder kegs on my side didn't hurt me when they exploded. With all this exploding going on, the basement guard still does not go on alert

Vanguard
15th Jul 2002, 00:03
FM: Police Station
File: c3policestation.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: 6 min
Loot: 0 of 0
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0
Secrets: 0 of 0

Comments:
-- The author forgot to set an ambient light level. When you douse the torches, you go blind.
-- There is a 2nd level to the jail cells but nothing to find up there.

Vanguard
15th Jul 2002, 00:09
FM: Thief2 - CTF
File: c3thief2ctf.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: &lt;2 min
Loot: 0 of 1612 (none required)
Pockets picked: 2 of 5
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0
Secrets: 0 of 1

Comments:
-- When I first played, I thought the objective was to get the [teddy] bear which is upstairs. Turns out that I'm supposed to get the beer.
-- Tis easy 'nuff. Snatch the front door key from the archer. Follow behind the patrolling guard (so he's gone the longest), open the front door, and watch for when the inside guard patrols up the stairs. Dash behind him and hide under the stairs until he is on the last flight up. Then dash around into the den while avoiding the servant gal. This guard comes back down and stands near the fireplace. Tail him when he goes back up and slip out the front door and back to your "home" spot to end the game. You really don't get to see much playing in this dash style.
-- You are supposedly given 5 minutes. Don't worry if you take longer than that. The time limit is not enforced. You'll need your own stopwatch to enforce this time limit objective. On another play, I took the back way in, bashed in some boards, and wandered about for 12 minutes before returning to "home".

Vanguard
15th Jul 2002, 00:38
FM: Underground Escape
File: c3undergroundescape.zip

Play mode: Ghost (failed)
Time: 14 min
Loot: 1210 of 1460 (1000 required)
Pockets picked: 0 of 2
Backstabs: 1 Knockouts: 0 (actually 1)
Damage dealt: 106 Taken: 7 (from initial forced fall) Healing: 0
Killed: 6
Secrets: 0 of 0

Comments:
-- You are forced to incur a health hit at the start where you fall and hit hard the ground.
-- You are almost immediately blocked by boards that you have to smash (i.e., property damage) to continue the mission.
-- You MUST slash banners to continue playing the mission.
-- At the end, a black clad Hammerite always faces the door so you cannot get in to sneak past him. I used the gas mine to take him out.

Almost appears we have an anti-ghost author; almost every Ghost rule had to be broken. Had to give up on trying to recover into ghost mode when I got blocked by the boards. It's a fun mission in normal style, however.

Vanguard
16th Jul 2002, 23:39
FM: Revenge
File: rache.zip

Play mode: Ghost (failed)
Time: 1 hr 32 min
Loot: 6838 of 7058 (6000)
Pockets picked: 3 of 6
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 4
Damage dealt: 24 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 1 (required)
Secrets: 0 of 0

Cause(s) for failure:
-- Cannot get Lady Helena's front door gate key from guy in hotel casino room without getting spotted.
-- Opening the drawgate before Lady Helena's front door gate requires using an arrow to hit the switch. This makes noise that alerts guards and burricks.
-- You MUST break glass to get enough loot to satisfy the loot objective.

Comments:
-- The key to Lady Helena's front door gate is on a guy in the gambling room at the hotel. The room is fully lit with electric lightrs that cannot be turned off, there are no shadows, and the AIs in the room see very well. This guy never walks out of this room. I have to blackjack the 4 AIs in this room (and hide their bodies) to prevent them from alerting the guards. Ghost bust!
-- To open the drawgate before Lady Helena's front door gate, you have to hit a switch by firing an arrow throught he drawgate. There are no moss arrows (until after you get into Lady Helena's). So you have to use a broadhead arrow but the impact noise alerts the guards and burricks. Another ghost bust.
-- In the burrick area is a secret door to get into the tower. There is nothing in the tower so I don't know why the door was hidden.
-- The max loot reported by the stats is 7058. 1134 of it is behind glass that you have to break to get it. That means there is only 5924 loot elsewhere in this mission. The loot objective says you must get 6000. So it impossible to satisfy the loot objective without breaking glass. Another ghost bust. Since I had to break glass, I broke it all and took all the loot from the display cases.
-- Lady Helena can be killed without alerting the fire elemental in the same room. I used a broadhead when she was unalerted and she went down quick. You can also sneak around the room to snatch the loot with only a 1st alert from the fire elemental.

RiCh
19th Jul 2002, 15:05
Fan Mission – The Restored Cathedral
Game – Thief The Dark Project
Play mode - Ghost & Perfect Thief SUCCESS?
Time - 18min. 59 seconds
Loot - 386/386
Pockets Picked - 0/0
Locks picked - 4
Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0 Taken - 0 Healing - 0
Kills - 0
Secrets found - 0/0
Ghosting difficulty level – Easy
Mission size – small/med
Adversaries - Hammerites
Consumables – 1 water arrow and holy water potion to solve the Eye puzzle.

Mission description:

Anyone who’s familiar with the original Thief will recognise this level, as it’s the cathedral form the level ‘Return to the Cathedral’ restored, hence the name of the FM.

Ghost Report:

Already being familiar with the layout of the cathedral, this FM doesn’t prove hard to complete. With only two objectives and only a small amount of guards and loot to collect, I’d say it’s an easy but enjoyable level to ghost. All the stationary AI seems to be in prefect position for the ghost, they may mutter, but never alert fully. The only troublesome spot encountered was the patrolling guard above the lift at the front of the cathedral. He always seems to be able to hear me on the lift as I ascend. To solve this minor problem I let the lift go up on its own, went through the main doors back into the main part of the cathedral, waited for the guard to turn in his patrol and then just jumped and mantled up to the level he was patrolling. Then quickly but quietly sneaked around the corner before he turned back around.

The only thing I’m not sure about is the use of the Holy water potion? For the Eye objective, does this bust the ghost? A little harsh if it does, but rules are rules :) let me know if this is a true ghost or not?

RiCh
19th Jul 2002, 15:06
Fan Mission – The Assassin at Lord Ganish
Game – Thief The Dark Project
Play mode - Ghost & Perfect Thief SUCCESS?
Time - 23min. 18 seconds
Loot - 1255/1255
Pockets Picked - 0/0
Locks picked - 10
Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 1
Damage dealt - 31 Taken - 0 Healing - 0
Kills - 1
Secrets found - 0/0
Ghosting difficulty level – Easy
Mission size – small/med
Adversaries – Normal guards and servants
Consumables – 1 water arrow for prison guard 3 Broad head arrows used to assassinate Thief.

Mission description:

A smallish mansion level, which also contains a small church, cemetery and prison.

Ghost Report:

This is a straightforward mission, that’s pretty easy to ghost. Stationary guards are no cause for concern, and the patrolling guards aren’t numerous, so can be comfortable ghosted around. Other AI like servants etc are also sensible placed and won’t trouble the ghost attempt. All the loot is also in plain sight so a perfect Thief can be achieved.

Troublesome spots:

Purse on a pew in the church is hard to spot, missed it the first time.

A stationary guard near the entrance to the prison will spot you unless you douse the touch on the far wall.

Killing the Thief in his cell will alert the other inmates, and will ultimately break the ghost. I personally haven’t been able to kill the thief in his cell without alert the others. BUT I have been able to sneak inside the cell without alerting him, and then slowly edging closer I then blackjacked him. This method didn’t alert anyone, I then took the unconscious body to a safer location and then killed him with 3 arrows in the butt! I’m unsure if this DOES break the ghosting rules, but I had fun anyway :)

RiCh
19th Jul 2002, 15:07
Fan Mission – Awaken!
Game – Thief The Dark Project
Play mode - Ghost FAILED
Time - 12min. 2 seconds
Loot - 0/0
Pockets Picked - 0/0
Locks picked – 0
Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0 Taken - 0 Healing - 0
Kills - 0
Secrets found - 0/0
Ghosting difficulty level – N/A
Mission size – small/med
Adversaries - Hammerites
Consumables – 0

Mission description:

3 small missions based around the same map containing a small crypt and a small Hammerite complex above ground. Not quite sure if you’re Garrett in this one?

Ghost Report:

The first 2 levels can be ghosted with no problem at all. Unfortunately the Third (as far as I can tell) can’t. A patrolling guard comes into the room when you start the level, he raises his arms and searches as part of a script, but even if this doesn’t break the ghost! The key needed to escape is in a room with numerous hammers inside it, there’s no way in without alerting them all. I thought I may have cracked it by finding a secret passageway in the crypt that wasn’t available in the first 2 missions, but this doesn’t seem to lead anywhere important? I thought I could object stack but none of the boxes can be frobbed or moved. So I can’t see anyway over the gate barring the exit.

RiCh
19th Jul 2002, 20:34
Fan Mission – The Temple of Forgers
Game – Thief The Dark Project
Play mode – Ghost: SUCCESS Perfect Thief: FAILED (impossible)
Time – 27 min. 30 seconds
Loot - 1249/2074
Pockets Picked - 4/4
Locks picked - 2
Backstabs - 1 Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 30 Taken - 0 Healing - 0
Kills – 1 (objective)
Secrets found - 0/0
Ghosting difficulty level – Hard
Mission size – Med
Adversaries - Hammers
Consumables – 4 water arrows 2 used near the entrance of temple, and another near the locked gate around the next corner. The other was used on afireplace so I could get the fire poker. One moss arrow used on the railing near the temple entrance.

Mission description:

You start the level in a balloon, which is above some derelict buildings, one of which leads to an underground Hammerite complex.

Ghost Report:

I must say this was a very enjoyable and challenging FM to ghost. Perfect Thief unfortunately is impossible due to the fact that 800 in loot is behind a banner, which needs to be slashed. All the AI patrols seem to be well thought out and offer a challenging test to your ghosting skills. Loot placement is also spot on apart from the 800 worth of gold coins behind said banner. Many shadows make the ghost enjoyable, which’s just as well, you don’t get many water arrows. I recommend you buy all water arrows and one moss arrow at the start of the game.

Challenging areas:

Inside the building that leads to the underground temple there’s a patrolling female. She’s not hard to ghost past initially, but there are two switches that need to be frobbed in order for the lift (which is under the fireplace) to descend. It’s only hard if you choose not to extinguish the fire, I didn’t, as you only have a very limited supply of water arrows. Its possible but you need to be quick as her patrols are short.

Just inside the temple is the most challenging part of this FM. I’ll try and explain how I ghosted it. Ahead of you is a Hammerite guard who’s back is turn as you approach him. He’s guarding a T Junction, which over looks a lower part of the level. I ghosted past the Hammerite guards right (left is impossible I think) then Extinguish the two touches either side of him. You can’t just then ghost past him, as there’s still a permanent light directly above him. So instead placed a moss arrow on top of the railing, in front of the guard, which blocks your way down to the lower level. And take a running jump at the railing, with a little practice you can land on top of the railing, crouch down and quickly but quietly jump down to the next level. There’s a dark patch directly ahead, with some luck and good timing the guard (and two others in the area) didn’t see me.

Just around the corner there’s a locked portcullis (the key near by, and again I needed a bit of luck and good timing to retrieve it, but it’s not too hard ;) ) When I opened the portcullis and started descending down the steps a servant appears and starts making his way up…I used a precious water arrow on one of the near by touches and let him go past, pick pocketing him for the trouble he caused me :D

Later in the level (just past the past the area where Garrett mentions about staying in the shadows near the walls) there’s a lady in a bath who’s facing the door you most open to get inside. Standing in the doorway you get seen, so I opened the door from the side and was able to sneak past her into the room without alerting her.

In order to retrieve the fire poker in one of the rooms I needed to douse the fire with my remaining water arrow (you don’t get many) so the Hammerite prist didn’t see me. There’s also a secret switch on the table, which is hard to spot once the touch is extinguished.

Peter_Smith
22nd Jul 2002, 07:39
Good work RiCh. Boy, you are a fast ghoster. Are you doing multiple run speed trials, or are you just naturally speedy?:)

As for killing that one guy, if it is an explicit objective of the mission it is OK -- not a bust. If you alert someone or do some damage that is secondary to an objective, but not required explicitly in itself, then that is a bust, even if there is no other way to do it. By carrying the guy elsewhere and killing him without an alert, you avoided the secondary bust.

RiCh
22nd Jul 2002, 07:53
Hi Peter, and thanks, I don’t know how you personally ghost? But I do often revert back to previous saved games, so my times do look short. But in reality I do spend much more time in the FM. The Temple of Forgers may have, in real time taken me 2hours? But That was 2hours well spent :D

RiCh
22nd Jul 2002, 19:45
Fan Mission – The Monastery of St Fera
Game – Thief The Dark Project
Play mode – Ghost: SUCCESS Perfect Thief: SUCCESS
Time – 43 min. 18 seconds
Loot - 1629/1629
Pockets Picked - 4/4
Locks picked - 10
Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0 Taken - 0 Healing - 0
Kills – 0
Secrets found - 0/0
Ghosting difficulty level – Hard
Mission size – Med/large
Adversaries - Hammerites, spiders, fire elements and Cray beasts.
Consumables – 2 water arrows used to steal the Morning Stone. 2 moss arrows used to help ghost past the spiders near the entrance to the Morning Stone area. One further Moss arrow used to retrieve the rosary beads. Also 2 rope arrows used and retrieved in the same area.

Mission description:

Fairly large Hammerite Monastery, which also contains underground sections too.

Ghost Report:

This is an excellent ghosting mission, I loved it! Tough in places and generally a hard FM to ghost. Lots of Hammers make their rounds in tight but fair patrols, which makes for tense and exciting ghosting. Most stationary guards turn often, which again heightens the ghosting experience (just keep looking the other way ;) ). Loot placement is fair, and most is either on show or in containers. I found only two instances where this wasn’t the case, one set of loot was behind a banner which could be frobbed without slashing the banner. The other was a hard to spot ring, which was under a ribcage in the caverns below the Monastery.

Tricky sections:

To be fair you have to be on your toes the whole time in this mission :) one problem of note, a certain Hammerite taffer who insists on having the machines turned on. This makes it really hard to hear footsteps and the guard’s comments in certain places of the FM.

The hardest section to get in and then back out of again was the entrance to the underground area where the Morning star is hidden. Going down the spiralling stairs wasn’t too difficult, but actually ghosting past the spiders at the bottom was. I could frob the lever to open the door to the next section but couldn’t ghost past the door (as it opened outwards) every time I left the shadows next to the wall the spiders were alerted. I could even reach the door but I couldn’t open it as I already mentioned, it opened outwards instead of inwards. In one ghost run, out of frustration I was casually flipping the up/down lever back and forth while I was leaning against the door. To my amazement the door, instead of opening outwards opened inwards and disappeared? A bug? I think so (anyone else seen this? I wasn’t complaining, I saved the game and proceeded onwards with a smile on my face :)

Getting back out and back up the steps proved to be challenging, you get back into the spider room from a different higher exit. I used a moss arrow to silence my drop down. I couldn’t go to the right (too light, the spiders would see me) So I tried the left route. Using the shadows I fired another moss arrow on the floor and ran past and spiders and jumped and mantled back up on to the steps above them. Failed the first time, succeeded the second. Got to the top of the stairs without a single alert, there comes that smile again :D

The Morning Stone didn’t prove to difficult; I just used 2 water arrows and silently crept past the patrolling fire elements

In order to steal the Rosary beads I used my last moss arrow on the floor, and used two rope arrows (which I retrieved). This wasn’t too hard it was all down to timing.

Danventry
22nd Jul 2002, 23:32
Fan Mission Name: Airship
Game: Thief 2 - TMA
Ghost: Success!
Perfect: Success!
Time: 22 minutes 11 seconds
Loot: 849 out of 849
Secrets: 0 out of 0
Pockets Picked: 3 out of 4 (perfect because of the bug)
Backstabs/KOs/Kills: 0 (duh)
Damage Delt/Recieved: 0 (duh, again)
Locks Picked: 2 (Bed room door and sea chest)
Water Arrows used: 2, main deck area

Trouble spots:
-Figuring out how to get the scuba diver's pouch. He's self lit and I didn't knwo how to get near him without him or the other gaurd seeing me.
My solution was getting to the edge of the walk, waiting until he passed, jumped up, grabbed, and squatted. No bust.

WOOOHOOOOOOO! My first ghost! I'm off to try Night @ the Theatre again. I would have ghosted it if 1)Had been playing on Expert (did all the required for Expert) 2) Hadn't fallen off that rope and gotten 1 damage.

Vanguard
23rd Jul 2002, 04:20
FM: Curiosity
File: curiosityv2.zip

Play mode: Ghost (failed)
Time: 52 min
Loot: 2364 of 3034 (2800 required)
Pockets picked: 5 of 7
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0
Secrets: 0 of 0

Cause(s) of failure:
-- Cannot find enough loot.
-- Proximity triggers put AIs on full alert although I'm not seen nor heard.

Comments:
-- At the very start, grabbing the puse on the bed endtable that is worth only 100 in loots results in the 2800 loot objective getting checked off. I never found 2800 in loot. Best I got was 2364.
-- Picked every purse on a belt and all arrows from quivers. Still only got 5 of 7 (possibly a counting bug).
-- Quite the arsenal that is hidden in his room at the very start.
-- Rather than add a physical barrier, like a wall or gate, to prevent the player from wandering into certain areas, the author put in invisible walls. For example, at the outdoor stage after the drawbridge, you get blocked from entering the park area and from walking down the side street. However, you can use crates to get up and over the fence to get into the park and outdoor stage. None of the AI folk react, and the actors on the stage are frobbable because they are corpses (that's what the status says when you pick them up). You can then frob the crates through the fence and reuse them to stack up in the corner along the side street to get up and over the fence and beyond the invisible wall that blocks you on the side street. Interesting back there but nothing to find for loot.
-- You need to swim the moat to find more loot.
-- At the small dock end of the moat, I mossed up the area to keep my jumping quiet. I could not get back into the water without making a splash that alerted one or both of the AIs there. However, although you get almost in the face of one AI (the one standing in the boat), you can get back onto the dock ladder, go down until you are underwater, and then jump off the ladder. Since you are underwater when you jump, there is no surface splash noise.
-- When approaching the ship, and even when keeping the ship between you and the AIs so they can never see you (by swimming underwater towards the bow), an AI is forced by a proximity trigger to make verbalizations like he went on 2nd alert. He never saw me, never heard me.
-- The museum/observatory/theatre also has a proximity trigger to put the guard on alert, or the author has the guard falsely trigger on the mech bots on display. Approach the locked doors and just wait and you'll hear the guard say something about seeing something, being mistaken, things shouldn't be like "this", and then declare a thief has gotten into the place - and you are still outside the locked doors! A ghost bust but I wasn't even inside the building yet!
-- I found the secret Keeper's entrance, flipped the torch, the wall didn't move and nothing happened other than the game ended (although I was short of the 2800 loot objective that was checked off, anyway).
-- From a save just before opening the secret entrance (that ends the game), I continued in nonghost mode and blackjacked or killed every guard (yep, although there is an Expert mode, you can still kill on Expert). I then went hunting around for more loot but didn't find any.
-- I don't know what the vine arrows are good for. There are few places you can use them, the author doesn't expect you to get up there (since there was no sound brushing), and I didn't find any more loot where I could use them.
-- There is a window in the building right next to the pottery shop but it is unbreakable and I didn't have enough stackables to get up there (and the vine arrow won't work there).
-- There's a lot of eye candy but I get the impression that this FM is not yet finished. Lots of doors, windows, and recesses where I can see a hollow behind it but you can't get in there.
-- I bashed in the robot shop (that has a pile of junk outside its front door and broken gates). Although it has the skin of a metal door, it sounds and acts like a wood door and can be bashed in. Just an empty recess, however.

Danventry
25th Jul 2002, 16:06
Originally posted by Lytha
Vanguard,

the pickpocket bug has been around since Thief II was released. This is not a bug of the FMs alone, so no need to repeat it for every of the missions. :)

I thought I saw this earlier. Oh, and I just realized that the way I said some things, could have been read as if I was sort of rude, so if it does I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound like that.

Lytha
25th Jul 2002, 16:38
Yep, the pickpocket bug is in all Thief 2 missions, be it OMs or FMs. I have never seen a Thief 2 mission not have this bug, although I've heard that it's possible to hack it away with some dirty (and probably object intense methods) at the start of the mission.

Expecting a FM not to have this bug, or to report it as if it is the FM author's fault is like asking the FM designers to debug the dark engine, and while they are at it, also the OS of the players...

Danventry
25th Jul 2002, 16:46
So should I put "3/4 with bug" or "3/3"?

Lytha
25th Jul 2002, 17:37
I am sorry that I sounded rude in my previous posting. But it makes me depressed (seriously) to imagine what a FM designer might think when he reads a review of his mission in which he's blamed for engine bugs (like the PP bug). At least, I will be depressed (and so not read any reviews, I guess).


I'd suggest you put in "3/4 (PP Bug - complete)"

Peter_Smith
26th Jul 2002, 07:18
I agree with Lytha, I don't recall any Thief 2 mission that did not have the off-by-one pickpocket bug. I believe Danventry has them all. That is the way I post it, too.

Danventry
26th Jul 2002, 08:13
Lytha, if you were talking about what I said, that was me apologizing, I wasn't talking about you, but me. I don't think what you said was rude at all! Anyways, thanks for the answer, but I'll have to skip over a few of the FM's I'm trying to ghost. Not only am I having problems finding loot, but the gaurds are way overly smart. They sense me 10 feet away.

RiCh
26th Jul 2002, 20:57
Fan Mission – The Library
Game – Thief The Dark Project
Play mode – Ghost: SUCCESS Perfect Thief: SUCCESS
Time - 37min. 16seconds.
Loot - 925/925
Pockets Picked - 6/6
Locks picked - Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0 Taken - 0 Healing - 0
Kills - 0
Secrets found - 0/0
Ghosting difficulty level –medium
Mission size – medium
Adversaries – Hammers
Consumables – 2 water arrows used in dinning room to help ghost past patrolling hammers 2 more used for the entrance to the main library and 1 more in the corridor outside the room where the chisel is located. One moss arrow used in the chapel to silence my landing while retrieving the skull.

Mission description:

A medium sized Hammerite complex with a fairly large library.

Ghost Report:

I wouldn’t say this mission was hard to ghost, but it wasn’t easy either. Some of the guards have random patrol routes, as do some of the stationary guard whose turns and timing are random. The main time waster in this FM is searching for the loot, as there’s not much! But the loot total needed is quite high (800 from 925 available) The only other thing to mention is that the main library all looks the same so you could become confused if you’re too busy trying to ghost and could lose your sense of direction.

Tricky sections

Retrieving the skull from the chapel was fun. Using 7!! Rope arrows attached to the chapel roof (all retrieved) and 1-moss arrows for a silent landing I ghosted the 3 guards below by rope jumping over their heads from one rope to the next until I grabbed the skull. I did the same going back, grabbing each rope arrow as I went.

There’s a hard to spot wine bottle (near a corpse) in a lower section of the library. You need to use a rope arrow on the wooden walkway in order to get down to it and steal it.

There’s also a hard to spot silver nugget in the water outside the chapel.

There’s a hard to spot ring on a shelf in the same room where the chisel in the chest is located. There’s also another ring that could be miss on a table in the main library.

A secret entrance is quite hard to spot in the 2nd of the 2 small rooms located on the ground floor. I missed it the first time, I read the scroll and stole the loot from the cabinet but didn’t bother searching the room. (My own fault for being careless) The secret entrance is located to the right of the door as you go inside the room. the Secret passageway contains a chest with 200 loot inside!

Vanguard
28th Jul 2002, 16:50
FM: Lord Alan's Basement (v2)
File: basement2.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: 1 hr 16 min
Loot: 4616 of 5178 (3500 required)
Pockets picked: 17 of 18
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0
Secrets: 0 of 0

Comments:
-- Although this FM converted to T2 is highly similar to the T1 version, there have been some changes. For example, now it is ghostable because of a change at the well.
-- I've already reported on ghosting (and failing) the T1 version at http://forums.eidosgames.com/old-ubb/FMs_Ghost_Perfect_Thief_Results_Part1_3.htm so I'll just comment on the changes in the T2 version.
-- The nugget that was behind a spider in the first set of tunnels is now in front of the spider so it can be frobbed without alerting the spider.
-- A slope was added the last drop from the spider tunnel (to the drop into the loo in the basement) so you won't get hurt. Previously you had to get tricky and lucky in trying to fall down without taking damage.
-- The buttons on the generators were moved to a wall plate. Previously I gave up on figuring out how to use the buttons and levers and just stacked crates under the drawgates to keep them from closing. This time I managed to use the buttons and levers to get both sets of drawgates open at the same time.
-- The fidgety gal near the well now wanders about a bit more and so you don't get stuck in the crawl space room through the shutters waiting indefinitely for her to move (and so she isn't looking in your direction).
-- The workshop key (for the smelting room) now appears on a table in a back room in the basement with a bunch of crates and a keyhole-shaped doorway. On Expert, I don't recall finding that key before so this is new. Previously the only way I could get into the workshop was from the attic tunnels (where the attic is the top level of the "basement").
-- Ah, a ledge is now around the well in the waterways so you can ghost through here. Previously this was an unghostable area because you would always splash in the water and alert the fidgety gal, archer, and maybe the sword guard, too. This was the spot that busted my ghost in the T1 version of this FM.
-- There is now a secret switch to open the secret place to find the secret correspondence (an objective).
-- Hey, the attic tunnels changed. Some tunnels are gone. You will still find the hole in the floor that looks down into the room with the purple book on a table and the next room has the door to the workshop. There used to be 2 tunnels to this spot but now there is only one. I went hunting around but didn't find how to get into the now sealed off other section of the attic tunnels. I remember those other tunnels had floor drops where you could fall into the waterways, so I'll have to recheck the waterways while looking up to see if I enter from that end of these tunnels.
-- More clues were added as to which statues are the teleporter pads in the mausoleum. A scroll mentions a servant whose hand disappeared within a statue as he was cleaning it, and you can see that one statue is a bit transparent. The zombie level is pretty easy to figure out: you arrive on one pad devoid of a chest and you leave on the other pad devoid of a chest. The servant-as-mage level uses banners to identify the teleport pads although I think there is one extra banner that is not a teleporter pad. I also recall hearing a tinkle chime sound when nearing the teleport pads.

<font transparency=100>This was a fun FM to play even the 2nd time around. There were some small changes that made game play a bit different.</font>

Vanguard
28th Jul 2002, 20:32
FM: Dreamslide
File: 64dream.zip

No AIs so the only way not to succeed at ghosting is to incur damage from falling off the slide. Very small FM. Took under a minute to complete. Just wanted to report it so I could check it off in Darkloader (which I use to track FMs ghosting using the Finished checkbox).

clayman
28th Jul 2002, 21:32
WOW ! My first time to this thread....congrats to all the Ghosters ! :)

I like the offhand, casual nature of Vanguard's last post......just so he could put another notch in his belt...(hitches up his Vanguard-ian western pants and spits tobacco juice on the ground defiiantly).....YAR ! :D

I'm still struggling with "Curse of the Ancients", and all you Ghosters just keep on keepin' on, oh well...I'm gettin' older and slower.........:) ;)

Vanguard
29th Jul 2002, 00:17
FM: Alchemic Allusions
File: alch11.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: 34 min
Pockets picked: 0 of 1 (actually 0 of 0)
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 40 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 2 (required)

Comments:
-- The 2 kills were required: the alchemist and his test subject (Godzilla Burrick).
-- This was a very frustrating FM to play because you're always getting stuck. You are 2 stories tall but cannot walk over bodies, get stuck between building, get stuck in doors (that are double wide), get stuck against walls, get stuck going up stairs. Even the AIs get stuck walking into each other although they are on opposite sides of the street; they have a "personal bubble" of about 5 feet around them. This one took a LOT of reloads.
-- This is definitely not an FM for those that dislike mazes. This is a multiple level maze for the streets with another maze for the sewers. It is a very complicated layout.

Vanguard
29th Jul 2002, 00:57
FM: Awaken!
File: awaken!.zip

<b><u>Part 1</u></b>
Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: 9 min
Loot: 0 of 0
Pockets picked: 1 of 1
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0

<b><u>Part 2</u></b>
Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: 4 min
Loot: 0 of 0
Pockets picked: 0 of 0
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0

<b><u>Part 3</u></b>
Play mode: Ghost (failed - impossible)
Time: 9 min
Loot: 0 of 0
Pockets picked: 1 of 1
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0

Comments:
-- Part 3 is impossible to ghost. The key for the lever lock to open the exit gate is on the altar surrounded by Hammerites that watch the only door to the building. You're guaranteed a bust here.

Vanguard
29th Jul 2002, 01:06
FM: Brainchild
File: brainchild.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)

Other stats cannot be reported as the game would report them - because the game doesn't report end-mission stats. The author has severely modified the user interface.

Comments:
-- This is a huge multilevel and complicated maze.
-- Avoiding AIs is easy. The only place I remember with humanoid AIs was a room after climbing up a shaft - but you don't need to go there since the exit is elsewhere.
-- This FM requires you to load it in dromed, enter "ambient 25" to lighten it up, portalize, save, and copy the .mis file back into the .zip file. Otherwise, you're playing in Near Blind Thief mode.

Vanguard
29th Jul 2002, 03:12
FM: Circle of Strain
File: cos.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: 29 min
Loot: 1952 of 2052 (1800 required)
Pockets picked: 5 of 6
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0

Comments:
-- This is one of those FMs that goes absolutely black when the light source is removed, like dousing a torch. I had to skip this FM before because I won't play in Blind Thief mode. I've since learned how to load the mission in dromed, enter "ambient 20", portalize, and save the mission so I can see in it.
-- The hardest part was getting the torc. I only had 1 water arrow left and there are 4 torches in the area plus the entrance is light by an unsourced light (i.e., it's just lit up there with no light source). I went to the 1st floor where I could edge up to the door but remain crouched and out of sight of the guards patrolling the halls and the inside front door guard. When the front door guard turned away, I would lean enough to see which way the guard inside the courtyard with the torc was facing. When both were faced away, I would scoot up behind the courtyard guard and close the doors behind me. I would NOT try to move along the wall since that area was lit up and the elevated guards would spot me. So I would circle around the courtyard guard as he turned to stay in the middle and scooted down the middle. Did the same to get back out.

Peter_Smith
29th Jul 2002, 03:59
FM: The Fireshadow's Barrow
File: c3fireshadowsbarrow.zip

Play mode: Perfect Thief (success)
Time 17:16
Loot: 1655 of 1655
Pockets: 1 of 2 (all)
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0
Secrets: 0 of 0

Comments:

Vanguard seems to have missed this one.;) Maybe he got discouraged and quit. This is possible, because there is a bug in this mission that may prevent passing a door made of three triangles. A variety of behaviors are possible including (a) the center piece gets stuck, (b) the side pieces spin, and when you stop them they are impassible, and (c) the door opens completely. At TTLG Nightwalker said it can be fixed by restarting the mission. Well, sometimes. I restarted seven times, and the door worked twice. Both times that I got it to work I was standing as far away from the door as possible, completely outside the alcove. This procedure also failed once. I also was able to get past the spinning pieces with great difficulty by stopping them in just the right positions and climbing over (not under).

OK, back to topic. Assuming that you can get past that door, there is only one challenge to ghosting this mission. There is a dead spider who comes back to life with a vengance. He can be bypassed by sliding down carefully and skirting around him on the slope.

There is also a minor problem with loot. There is a clue in one of the letters about chipping gold off an urn. That solves it, if you can figure out how to chip off the gold.:)

Fireshadow's Barrow is a fun little mission with some nice special effects and custom objects. Too bad it has than one little problem. Maybe the author will fix it.

RiCh
2nd Aug 2002, 16:57
Fan Mission – Hammerite’s Brutality
Game – Thief 2 The Metal Age
Play mode – Ghost: FAILED Perfect Thief: FAILED
Time - 28 min. 44seconds.
Loot -1175 /1305
Pockets Picked - 4/6
Locks picked -2 Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0 Taken - 0 Healing - 0
Kills - 0
Secrets found - 0/0
Ghosting difficulty level – N/A
Mission size – small/med
Adversaries – Hammerites, normal guards
Consumables – 1 water arrow

Cause(s) of failure:

- Need to bash a door down, which alerts the nearby AI.
- Extinguishing a torch alerts AI, no other way around the problem.

Mission description: Smallish Hammerite complex with a small prison.

Ghost Report:

I had a bad feeling about this mission the second it started. You start the FM inside a cell (for a master Thief, Garrett don’t half get captured often :D ) The problem is you don’t quite start on the floor, and the noise of your feet hitting the ground almost alerts the patrolling guards.....almost. Ghosting the rest of the prison and retrieving your weapons isn’t difficult. Once escaping the prison through a trap door above a large box you find yourself in a small chapel, if I’d decided to go right at this point, I would of found the 1st of 2 busts in this level. I didn’t, I decided to go the other way! The rest of the level isn’t too hard to ghost just slow going, as most areas are stone floor! Not many guards though and most loot can be found easily enough.

The first bust of the ghost comes when you go through the right door (when you 1st enter) inside the chapel, going up the ladder to the next level you find a ghost…AND a wooden door which can’t be opened by either a key or a hidden lever! So unfortunately the only way through is by bashing it down! This alerts the ghost who promptly disappears! The second bust occurs shortly afterwards. You need to grab a key off a guard’s belt inside a small room. Too well lit to creep inside you need to use a water arrow on a torch above the guard’s head. Doing this either alerts him or the female who's standing infront of him!

2 busts down I decided to still carry on the ghost, and the only other problem encountered was escaping with the prisoner (a small child) the key off the guards belt opens up the locked door in the chapel. In this room behind a banner (which disappears when frobbed?) is a switch, which opens up the door to the cells where the child is being held. Ghosting past the 2 patrolling guards while carrying the child proved problematic and took a few reloads to finally ghost them and eventually escape and finish the level. Oh well, you can’t win them all!

Vanguard
5th Aug 2002, 00:17
FM: Hammerite Brutality
File: hambrt1eng.zip

Play mode: Ghost (failed)
Time: 48 minutes
Loot: 1125 of 1305
Pockets picked: 4 of 6
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 1 (prisoner)
Damage dealt: 1 (prisoner) Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0

Cause(s) for failure:
-- Door bashing required. Also alerts ghost.
-- Torch doused to get into room with Hammerite and female results in one or both going on alert.

Comments:
-- I had the same problems ghosting this FM as RiCH. Had to bash in a door in the attic to get a key. This alerted a ghost - which is ineffectual (he can't harm you).
-- Tried several ways of dousing the torch in the room with the Hammerite and female that constantly stand in one place and face to face. No luck. Another bust.
-- The objective says "Free one prisoner". I did that. I took the prisoner in the cell next to me at the start. He doesn't follow and AIs cannot go up/down ropes, anyway. So I blackjacked him and toted his butt all the way out. No joy. Apparently the "one" prisoner is a very specific prisoner, the little girl. Okay, so I toted her out, too, so now I actually have freed TWO prisoners!
-- Oh, by the way, after toting the unconscious prisoner up the rope and dumping him that first storage room, when I got back (after a reload of a saved game), he was gone! I found him back in his cell, standing and awake, and humming away. TAP! I said you are coming with me whether you want to be freed or not! (I hadn't found the little girl prisoner yet and, hey, this guy counts as a prisoner, too).
- RiCH got the same pickpocket stat so it looks like the stat bug isn't just off by one but it is off by two. I didn't find any more stuff to lift from the AIs.
-- I did spend a long time trying to figure out how to open the frobbable door in the dissection area. You find a key next to a corpse on a table (and just before that you find a servant collapsed in a processing cell. In that area is a frobbable door (i.e., it lights up when approached) but it cannot be picked and I never found a key for it.

Danventry
6th Aug 2002, 19:47
FM Title: Stiff Competition
Game: Thief II - TMA
Ghost: Success!
Perfect: Success!
Time: 5 min 34 sec
Loot: 1785/1785
Locks Picked: 4
Pockets Picked: 0/1 (PP bug - complete)

Coments:
-I know this is a stupid ghost since there aren't AI, but I've only done 2 others, so the more the merrier. Plus, you can still fail by falling damage or property damage.

I'm off to find another FM to ghost!

PS Vangaurd: I know the PP bug is not off by two, but I could see logic if there was a pp in a blue room or something. Also, you may want to try some more with the light in the room with the lady and gaurd. I did it and only the lady was alerted, so maybe you can get it without both alerting? I leaned in (but I don't think that helps, because you've probably already done it).
Plus, I didn't see anything in that room afterI tapped them (I wasn't ghosting). As for the ghost, I dunno, but you might find SOME way to bypass him later.

RiCh
6th Aug 2002, 23:25
Fan Mission – Quick Cash
Game – Thief 2 The Metal Age
Play mode – Ghost: Failed Perfect Thief: Failed
Time - 4 min. 39 seconds.
Loot - 502 /502
Pockets Picked - 0/1
Locks picked - Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0 Taken - 0 Healing - 0
Kills - 0
Secrets found - 0/0
Ghosting difficulty level – N/A
Mission size – Very Small
Adversaries – Hammerites, Haunts and zombies
Consumables – 2 water arrows

Cause(s) of failure:
Extinguishing the torches in the chapel alerts nearby AI.
Corridor too well lit to sneak down and AI in cemetery one or more AI spot you.

Mission description:

A very small Hammerite complex with a chapel and small cemetery.

Ghost Report:

Not really much to report as this is really a small mission. Amazingly it can’t be ghosted. 2 Busts in fact, one in the chapel in order to steal the 2 candle sticks off the alter. You need to extinguish the 2 torches, this immediately alerts one or more of the Hammers located in there. The other bust occurs down the corridor to the cemetery, too well lit, I couldn't sneak in without alerting one of the zombies.

Only thing to note is that the loot in the containers is not actually linked to them, so you need to search inside the containers to steal the loot.

RiCh
6th Aug 2002, 23:27
Fan Mission – Your Last Breath
Game – Thief 2 The Metal Age
Play mode – Ghost: SUCCESS Perfect Thief: SUCCESS
Time - 17 min. 29 seconds.
Loot - 1365 /1365
Pockets Picked - 0/1
Locks picked - Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0 Taken - 0 Healing - 0
Kills - 0
Secrets found - 0/0
Ghosting difficulty level – Easy (ish)
Mission size –Small/Med
Adversaries – Mechanists
Consumables – 0

Mission description:

A Smallish Mechanist Underwater complex

Ghost Report:

I thought I had no chance of ghosting this one, from the same author as ‘Quick Cash’; his 2nd FM is a much better effort than his 1st. You start the FM on a raft in the middle of the ocean above an underwater complex. Thankfully the author has designed the FM so you can just reach the base and other areas with just enough breath. So you don’t have to resort to using one of the breath potions you’re given.....Nice One! Inside the base there’s quite abundance of metal floors that makes ghosting that little bit harder. Loots all on show or in containers and the base has a simple layout so you shouldn’t get lost easily. Not too difficult, but an enjoyable and rewarding FM to ghost.

Tricky sections:

In the chapel with a patrolling mech inside, there’s a room at the back with some loot. The Mech's patrol is short and the floors metal, but you just have enough time to reach the door and get inside if you use the side door to the chapel, and not the other door from the Priestess’s room.

500 in loot is actually outside the main complex near the guard tower structure. To get this, dive down to the guard tower and catch your breath inside then head directly East, quickly grab the loot (purses) and head straight to the surface, you just have enough breath

The raft is slightly hard to see on the surface (you need to get back on it to finish the mission) So try to remember where it was…West of the guard tower!

Each doorway has a metal floor, so don’t get caught out
cheaply :)

Oh yes, I nearly forgot, in the servants chamber you’ll find Mechanist servants locked up in cells. Don’t bother going in through the door. Go back out into the water and find the trapdoor, which leads to the back room and enter this way…much easier and a quicker way to the loot inside.

RiCh
7th Aug 2002, 23:55
Fan Mission – Last Stand
Game – Thief 2 The Metal Age
Play mode – Ghost: FAILED Perfect Thief: FAILED
Time - 35 min. 42 seconds.
Loot - 2485/2990
Pockets Picked - 2/3
Locks picked – 3 Backstabs - 1 Knockouts - 1
Damage dealt - 31 Taken - 0 Healing - 0
Kills – 1 (objective)
Secrets found - 0/0
Ghosting difficulty level – N/A
Mission size – Med
Adversaries – Mechanists
Consumables – 3 moss arrows 2 water arrows

Cause(s) of failure: Couldn’t ghost past the Ape Beast at the beginning of the level

Mission description: Mechanist complex with a small ship and docks

Ghost Report:

This is the author’s first attempt at an FM so expect a fair few bugs and things not done quite correctly. The ‘Ghost’ goes right at the start of this FM, I couldn’t find anyway past the ape beast at the beginning. There’s just not enough room to ghost past it, so I ended up introducing it to the wrong end of my BJ! The rest of the FM can be ghosted though. A word of warning: make sure before going down on the lift to the docks near the end of this mission, you have around 1500 loot. As the bottom button doesn’t send the lift back up and you’re stuck (as far as I know) down there. When I’d finished all other objectives I still only had 2335 in loot, I thought I was screwed, you need 2400! Lucky there’s a hard to spot passageway on the far side of the docks, which I’d missed, which contains more loot. I’m unsure if this passageway brings you back up to the higher level as upon completing the loot objective it ended the mission.

The docks have another ‘problem’ for ghosters! The ambient sound of machinery down there almost blocks out all other noise (and will grate after a while for sure), and makes it really difficult to, not only hear footsteps (lots of metal floors), but the guards comments as well. As far as I can tell I ghosted the docks, but with all that noise going on, there’s a strong possibility that I never and just didn’t know I’d been busted. This is a very linear FM with only one way to go and limited exploration, just make sure you search everywhere for the loot in this FM.

RiCh
10th Aug 2002, 10:00
Fan Mission – GtR 2: The Auction House
Game – Thief 2 The Metal Age
Play mode – Ghost: SUCCESS Perfect Thief: SUCCESS
Time – 19 min.6 seconds.
Loot - 1300/1300
Pockets Picked - 7/8
Locks picked - Backstabs - 0 Knockouts – 1 (objective)
Damage dealt - 1 (objective) Taken - 0 Healing - 0
Kills - 0
Secrets found - 2/2
Ghosting difficulty level – Med
Mission size – Small
Adversaries – Normal guards, watchers and 1 iron beast.
Consumables – 2 water arrows

Mission description: A smallish multi level auction house with basement and sewers.

Ghost Report:

Due to the size of the FM, being quite compact and small, the guard’s patrols are short and quite testing to ghost. Thankfully all patrols seem to be well thought out and you always (just) have enough time to find a welcoming shadow. All loot is on display so the loot objective shouldn’t prove a problem and perfect thief can be achieved. Objectives are also in sensible places, though the diary is slightly hard to spot if your not paying attention. Hint: it’s hidden in the basement somewhere :) A few tricky sections, mostly in the basement makes this FM an enjoyable FM to ghost.

Tricky sections:

The Horn of Quintus objective was a fun and slightly tricky part to ghost. Dodging the camera using its blind spot underneath and a small shadow in the corner was good stuff.

One slight bug found was an iron beast being able to see you through a metal door on the first level near the Horn. You can’t hear the iron beast but it’s head pokes through the door and it’s on full alert. To solve this I re-started and just doused the nearby torch, no more problems after that.

The basement is a tricky part to ghost! I decided to lock pick the door directly in front of me. You can’t unlock the door in one attempt, the patrolling guard’s route is short and he’ll get you every time. So dashing in and out between patrols made this part of the FM fun. Long lock picking can be fun and not tedious if there’s patrolling guards nearby.

I knocked out Tabitha, but she is carrying a gas mine so I guess I could’ve used that instead. And used my other water arrow to ghost past the patrolling guards near the exit to the sewers to finish the level. No need to worry about the banner blocking the exit to the level you can crawl underneath it!

Nightwalker
10th Aug 2002, 16:23
RiCh: I have just a little note about your comments in about Last Stand. You CAN get back up that elevator. I did it several times, but you need to be a good shot with a broadhead. If you can hit the elevator button on the wall by the upper door, the elevator will go back up.

The passageway that you mentioned that has the last loot in it doesn't go anywhere. It's just where the mission ends.

There is some very tricky hidden loot that I haven't actually found myself yet. I got a very nice e-mail reply to the one I sent the author and he gave away a few of the hidden bits. For a first effort, it's a very nice mission, though a little rough in spots. I hope he decides to build more. :)

RiCh
10th Aug 2002, 16:41
Thanks for the comments Nightwalker, yes I already knew you could get back up by shooting the switch above you. But when ghosting the mission this would alert the female guard above you, so that would count as another bust :( but thanks anyway. I hope you don’t think I’m slagging this FM off? True, it has its faults but it’s still an enjoyable FM, and I too wish the creator luck on anymore projects they may decide to make in the future. I’m a FM player now, and am trying to finish ALL FMs by Xmas! So more FMs the better IMO!

Nightwalker
10th Aug 2002, 18:17
I should have realized that it would make too much noise when ghosting, RiCh! Dummy me! :D I've been reading your reports and it sounds like you're having a lot of fun with this. I wish I had time to try ghosting more missions, but I just can't seem to keep up with everything now, so I don't think it's going to happen. Have fun!

Danventry
16th Aug 2002, 03:59
FM Title: Sandbride Police Station
Game: Thief 2 - TMA
Ghost: Success!
Perfect: Success!
Loot: 0/0
Pick Pockets: 0/1 (PP bug-complete)
Kills/KOs/Damage Receive: 0
Time: 2 minutes 32 seconds
Secrets: 0/0

Notes:
- I had to go into DromEd and adjust the ambient lighting (+5), because if you put out all the torches in the beginning, the world goes pitch black, and I was not about to play blind.
- I know that I really shouldn't call this a "Perfect" as there was no loot, but the rules state that a Prefect is "getting all the loot available". I got all the loot available (none), therefore, I need to report it as a Perfect.
PS To you experts: How am I doing? I'm new at this, and this is my 4th one to do. Any advice on other's I should try (easy ones, not hard though)? Am I doing okay for a beginner?

Danventry
16th Aug 2002, 17:33
FM Title: The Night I Ghosted Berkshead
Game: Thief 2 - TMA
Ghost: Success!
Perfect: Success! *See Note
Time: 25 minutes 46 seconds
Secrets: 0/0
Pick Pockets: 2/3 (PP bug - complete)
Damage Given/Recieved: 0 (duh)
Loot: 760/785 *See Note

Notes:
- Well thought out mission, nicely designed.
- It was a reload or two before I could get into a workshop/storage without the front desk gaurd seeing me.
* Okay, the loot says I've only got 760/785, but Gumdrop has told me that there is a slight bug resulting in 25 loot not being real in the game, but counted in the stats. Therefore it is a perfect.

Danventry
17th Aug 2002, 01:00
FM Title: After The Party
Game: Thief 2 - TMA
Ghost: Success!
Perfect: Success! (Forced)
Time: 21 minutes 42 seconds
Pick Pockets: 2/3 (PP bug - complete)
Secrets: 0/0
Damage Given/Recieved: 0

Notes:
- The Perfect is forced if you ghost the mission, because you must "clean him [the Noble] out".
- I had a lot of trouble with the two rooms on the sides of the front doors. I asked Vangaurd how he did it (creeping across floors) but that did not work, because the gaurd on the balcony level and the lady in red always searched for me (if not more people). So I had to do it differently. I waited for a few moments until the gaurd downstairs was not facing the doors and the lights went off, and then I jumped from the balcony to the front door mat. Then I jumped into the storage room with broken chairs. I then climbed onto the block in the corner to be completely dark. Then I grabbed the key and loot. It went dark and the gaurd was gone again. Jump to the mat, then to the other room. Grab loot. Save. This was the trickiest part. I knew that I could not walk back across the floor, not could I jump up to the balcony. So I shot a rope arrow (which only got me a few 1st alerts) and waited til darkness. I jumped on it, climbed, and then adjusted myself so that I was too high for the gaurd below, and the gaurd up there would be blocked by the center pillar. Darkness. At first I jumped a few times but then I learned that it was too short of a darkness period (reloaded quite a few times). Waited until the dark, then jumped , which always was loud, so I though I could jump onto the very edge of the short wall next to the clock. But then I got stuck. After a few reloads, I figured out I could walk backwards, over both walls to the floor and then to the back balcony (over the carpeted hall). This took a lot of my time. Then a simple ghost from there.

Danventry
17th Aug 2002, 02:26
FM Title: The Inventor's Tower
Game: Thief 2 - TMA
Ghost: Success!
Perfect: Success!
Time: 26 minutes 58 seconds
Loot: 805/805
Pick Pockets: 1/2 (PP bug - complete)
Secrets: 3/3
Damage Given/Recieved: 0

Notes:
- On my quest for money to Perfect this mission: I got down to the basement, went upstairs, back down (found the crack), then under the stairs (and found some money) then to the attic (and then found the 3rd secret), then back down again just to find out that the little bit of money I was missing was some coins on the table. This made me very mad, so I didn't bother messing around trying to pass the door gaurd while not being seen by the patrolling gaurd (because he gave me trouble as it was). Therefore:
- I used an Inviso Potion to pass him.
- A nice mission. Well thought! I had just enough room and darkness to hide without being seen, and enough time to get places.
- I liked the B-ball machine!
- I did get the schematics, but did not bother with putting the Inventor in the rat cage (as I know it would result in a bust; they were both optional).
- Loot was a bit difficult to find. The drill made me think it was junk (which it wasn't) and the coins on the tables were hard to see as were the ones in the crack in the wall.

Gumdrop
17th Aug 2002, 13:01
Originally posted by Danventry
Gumdrop won't reply to me, so I'm calling it a Perfect until someone proves me wrong (which I hope they will be kind enough to tell me where the last bit of loot is).

Sorry Danventry. I did mail you but should have private messaged you instead. The missing loot was a purse on a guards belt, but after playing with it a little I decided to remove that AI and that's what causes the extra loot and a pick pocket to show up. I think I should have purged missing objects but didn't know much when I made the FM. So yes, you are in the clear. :)

Danventry
17th Aug 2002, 20:56
Thanks Gumdrop! Dorry about the e-mail, I'll PM next time (I am just getting use to them).

Peter_Smith
4th Sep 2002, 03:26
Fan Mission – Garrett to the Rescue 2: The Auction House
Game – Thief 2 The Metal Age
Play mode – Ghost: SUCCESS Perfect Thief: SUCCESS
Time – 45 min.49 seconds.
Loot - 1650/1650
Pockets Picked - 5/6 (all)
Locks picked - 3
Damage dealt - 0 Taken - 0 Healing - 0
Secrets - 2/2
Consumables – 3 water arrows


Sorry Rich, you were playing a beta version, or was it a half-baked release? Anyway, it is now finalized. The final version is a little bit trickier overall, althought you took the hard route to the cells anyway, so it is no big deal.

The final version has more loot, one tricky piece of loot worth 100 (I searched for a long time), a new area to explore (in the "opposite" building), and it prevents getting into the cell area by the "secret" route, which was too easy before.

I found it challenging to enter the cell area by means of the switch room because it is difficult to find a hiding place unless you open a gate into the secret space. I missed an obvious gate switch in my hurry. So after a few unnecessary failures I changed tactic and entered by way of the main corridor, which was also tricky owing to the need to make a very fast torch shot past the ear of a guard and retreat. Regardless of which route you take, it is a good ghosting mission, at least in the cellar. The rest is fairly easy to ghost but interesting and fun nevertheless.

There was one funny place in the top floor. Coming down the elevator, you make a clanking noise, which causes an alert. That can prevented by starting the elevator before getting on it and jumping down to the moving platform. Or by using moss.

Try playing it again, Rich. It is changed enought to be worth another run. No doubt you can do it faster than I did.:)

Peter_Smith
6th Sep 2002, 07:42
Fan Mission – Karras' Diary
Game – Thief 2 The Metal Age
Play mode – Ghost: FAILURE; Zero damage: SUCCESS.

time: 3:22:29
loot: 6250 / 7050 (5500 needed)
pockets: 1/2 (all)
secrets: 4/5
damage given: 0 (gassed one guard)
damage taken: 0
consumables: several moss arrows, no water, one invisibility potion.

Karras' Diary is a terrific new mission by Thorin Oakenshield. Its setting is post-Soulforge. Karras is now a dead saint, in repose in a cathedral, and his desciples are preparing for the Builder's Paradise, a rapture-like event in which all flesh will be consumed and only mechanical devices will survive. In preparation for this, the Mechanists are "necrotizing" the flesh of all believers using a transmutation machine. Garrett's mission is to prevent this from happening by destroying the transmutation machine, taking the plans to the machine, and causing confusion by planting Karras' Diary in an incriminating place.

I beta tested this mission, so perhaps I should disqualify myself. But I won't. I tried to sneak through it to some extent during the testing, but on each playing I found myself strangely compelled to BJ all the AI I could, so I never really learned whether ghosting would be possible or not. I suspected not. Anyway, many changes were made between the testing and the final release, including many changes in the loot, so I played the final version to settle the question of whether ghosting was possible.

The AI in this mission are buzzing around like bees, and they are also quite sensitive to noise. It is challenging to go anywhere in Ghost mode, so the normal play procedure would be to dispatch them all and avoid the sneaking problems. It is much more relaxing to play in BJ mode. My objective, however, was to test ghost and to get through the mission with zero damage and no use of gas, if possible. Also to get all the loot.

The ghost failed for a number of reasons listed below, but I did achieve zero damage. I had to gas one guard. Either that or kill him.

Ghost failure points

Exploding the transmuting machine brought a guard running. It is necessary to hide well to avoid a confrontation.

Needed to use an invisibility potion to get two wine bottles in the bar. Of course, I could have avoided that loot, but avoiding loot was not in my plan.

I couldn't ghost the second spider in the crypt tunnels, going in from the secret entrance on the graveyard side. I ran for it, spider in persuit, and jumped on the table in the switch room. He wouldn't go away, so I had to run back out, too.

I had to run past two spiders in the secret passage to the diary. The secret passage must be found and taken in Expert (Hurt Me) mode because the two bots guarding the door to the diary room are almost impossible to disable, and anyway that is worse than dodging spiders.

In the church I managed to get the two candlesticks and the money box in ghost mode, but I could not escape from behind the money box without alerting the guards. Had to run for it, escape up the ladder, and wait for them to quiet down.

One of three switches in the north gate room alerted the guard with a clanking noise, and then reinforcements came in from outside. The other two switches were silent. I hid until they all disappeared.

I had to gas the guard facing the exit door. Othewise, I could not blow the charge to blast the door open without killing the guard.

So, obviously (to me at least) the mission cannot be ghosted and was not intended to be ghosted. It is, nevertheless, a good ghosting mission, because there are many fun little areas where you have to sneak well to avoid detection and the ensuing damage.

Interesting areas

At the start, getting into the Lady's room and its upper floors presented a slight challenge owing to the constant procession of guards.

Getting to the diary was a tense experience, with a lot of spider dodging and creeping.

When I entered the tree beast compound from the elevator, the guards were already fighting a tree beast in the distance. After that, they seemed to stay on high beam. I believe that the dead tree beast was listed as a "body discovered." They would not settle down in the time I was willing to wait, so getting the neckace from the cage was interesting.

In the church there were two challenges. The first was the green spider in the loft. He can be ghosted by slow creeping. Downstairs by Karras' tomb was the most difficult ghosting in the mission. The two guards there are intended to be gassed. With great care and use of moss I got all the loot there, but I could not excape from my hiding place near the money box without alerting the guards.

Inside Karras' house, upstairs where you need to plant the diary, there are two goosy guards. They can be ghosted by using moss and good timing.

In the bank the challenge is go upstairs and turn of two watchers. Downstairs, you can shoot a light switch or you can run - the switch is easier. Upstairs, you can find a small spot near the top of the stairs where you can see the watcher to time its motions. Then if you break into a full run at the right time you can get past it.

There are only four water arrows available in Expert, but it turns out it was unnecessary to use any of them. This is because all the lights in the challenging areas are electric (that is what makes the areas challenging), and it is not necessary to disable any bots.

I know where secret #5 is, but I did not attempt it because it involves stacking crates in an area that is patrolled. I hope that omission can explain some of my missing loot. If not, then I really need to do some serious hunting (after BJ'ing all the AI). Thorin is a tricky loot hider.:)

Nightwalker
6th Sep 2002, 11:05
I'm impressed that you got to the loot box at the front of the Church without being spotted, Peter. I thought that would be impossible! Also that green spider is a pain. :)

There is no loot in Secret #5, just equipment and a note, as we suggested. I have a loot list posted at the Cheap Downloads site that covers it all. The ring that was in the secret has been moved and that's what I missed in my run through. Thorin had to tell me where to look for it.

Vanguard
10th Sep 2002, 09:04
FM: Karra's Diary
File: karrasdiary.zip

Play mode: Ghost (failed)
Time: 2 hr 43 min
Loot: 5745 of 7050 (5500 required)
Pockets picked: 1 of 2
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 40 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 2 (spiders in passage near diary)
Bodies discovered: 2 (hey, they weren't mine; KO stat was zero)
Secrets: 4 of 5

Cause(s) for failure:
- Explosion from destroying the transmutator alerts guard outside building.
- Killed the spiders in passage to get around mech bots to get diary. There's no way to not alert them. There's only 1 inviso potion so I could get past them once but would get nailed coming back out, anyway.

Comments:
- I did a little better than Peter. The only AI alerted was the guard outside the transmutator building. I ran into the side room and up the ladder so she never saw me or heard me (other than the explosion). That was a ghost bust. Must've been a faulty machine, yeah, sure.
- The diary is in a room guarded by 2 mech bots at its door. You have to take the secret passage around them but there are spiders in there. Had to kill them with broadheads. That was a ghost bust, too.
- At the start, I spent a long time trying to figure how to get inside the keeper's house. I was looking on the leftside of the top door sill but the key wouldn't highlight from that side.
- I didn't try for the gold wine bottles in the bar. I got enough loot elsewhere to satisfy the loot objective.
- After several tries to run through the 1st floor of the bank but always getting a yellow alert from the watcher, I hit the light switch with a moss arrow to darken the room.
- In the room with the kill switches for the watchers, you use the bank cog key to open a window. I ran on the marble ledges and made noise but the big bot below at the front door doesn't alert. There's a ring up there behind the statues. You can use this to jump to the ledges on the other buildings but I had already cleaned them out.
- I didn't have a problem with the spiders, lil bots, or mech bot in the crypt tunnels. The spider at the ladder from the cemetary is blind. Only got a first alert from the spiders in a side room as I dashed into the lab room with the key and levers. Avoided the lil bots by either hiding in a corner to let them by (they are blind until alerted) or between them and the big bot. I did not take the low passage with the spider to get into the big room with the "wine cellar" door (to the diary). I headed back through the crypt tunnels and went down the stairs.
- Got into the church with just a 1st alert from the gal outside. Used 2 moss arrows on the floor in front of the podium (at pew level) to dash from shadow to shadow when the podium level guard was facing forward and the pew level guard was facing away. Got the church collection money. The guards are a bit myopic. I got to the top of the ramp and part way to the podium with just 1st alerts. Another moss arrow and when they faced away I could run and hide behind the podium from that guard up there and only get 1st alerts from the pew level guard. Wait for them to face away, stand, lean, and snatch gold candlesticks.
- The spider is tricky but only to get into the attic room. Snuck up to the left side of the opening, mossed the metal cog shaped door, waited until it turned to face away, and dashed in to the far wall with just a 1st alert. The green spider is completely blind on its left side so I could even get the moss arrows near it (which I absolutely had to have).
- To get back off the high beams in the church but not take damage from the jump back to the platform over the door or make noise, shot an rope arrow into the wood platform and ran off the beams to snag the rope arrow.
- I used 2 moss arrows in Karra's house 2nd floor to run past the guards when they were faced away to get across the floor to deposit the diary. Got 1st alerts both directions across the floor. I didn't want to use the inviso potion if at all possible.
- If you take the dark way around the church to the hole in the wall, a script gets triggered to have a treebeast escape and fight with the guards. This alerts them. Instead, I went back towards the cemetary and by the bank. I doused the gas lamp over the helmeted guard by the metal doors and nudged him across the walkway so I could take the archway towards the north gate. Coming in this other way eliminates triggering the script. There is no escaped treebeast, the guards never get alerted (there is no dead treebeast, either), but its cage is open and the loot is still there.
- You don't need the sunburst bomb or fire arrow in the central and leftside rooms when you get past the north gate. I used a moss arrow to hit the switch to open the rightside gate (the way out).
- To open the unpickable no-key exit door, light a flare and toss it at the door. It opens. Unfortunately I had forgotten to get the flares back at the fort so I had to head all the way out. On exiting the north gate, a helmeted guard and other guard were standing there on watch but I could sneak around them in the dark by the hedge wall. But the helmeted guard that I had nudged facing into the opposite wall from where he was standing had now turned to the left and faced the walkway past the bank. The glowing mushroom is unpickable so I would be lit if I tried to pass him. Had to nudge him again to move him out into the walkway so I could squeeze between him and the wall. Went to the fort, got the flares, came all the way back.
- I actually wasted 2 moss arrows at the fort. I fired them up to fall back down on the 2nd and 3rd floors of the lookout tower not realizing that I could frob the chests while on the ladder. Now I was down to only 1 moss arrow which I would need to open the exit blast door after the north gate. I don't know if a gas arrow works to hit the switch to make it change.
- I got right up to the leftside of the guard down by the exit door as he was facing towards the far wall. I could scoot around him when he turned, but he turns back too quick so I finally had to use up my inviso potion. To get into the short hallway by the locked exit door and out of sight.

One spot that really needs to be fixed is where you mantle out of the river near warehouse B with the black guards. This is how you get into the 2nd half of the mission. You have to keep trying to mantle for dozens of times hoping you just manage to bob right in the water to manage to mantle up the dockside to get up onto the street. I got so tired of listening to Garret's wheezes as I tried to mantle that I muted the sound until I finally got up onto the street. No matter what technique I tried, it seemed mostly random when you managed to mantle up.

Even though I could use a rope arrow to get right next to the switch to open the secret panel in warehouse B, you can't frob it. Instead you have to hit it with an arrow. The black guards are pretty deaf. They don't hear the arrow clink on the switch. You don't even have to work hard to sneak by them: they don't hear your foot claps on the tile floor as you simply walk past them.

I didn't blackjack or kill anyone, and spiders rarely get included in the Damage Dealt statistic. So I have to assume that the guy on the transmutator table was damaged or killed when I flipped the switch to blow up the transmutator (an objective). That might account for 1 of the 2 discovered bodies.

I got enough loot to satisfy the loot objective but there is supposedly a lot of loot left. Maybe it's in the last secret that I didn't find.

Peter_Smith
11th Sep 2002, 03:27
Vanguard,

Congrats on ghosting the church. I just got pinned down somehow next to the cash box, and nothing I could do would solve it, even with extra moss. It was a visibility thing, going up hill (slower) rather than down.

I am pretty sure that there is no loot in the last secret. There is a lot of tricky loot elsewhere. Tiny rings, hard to see, for example. A building that is not obvious to enter (the mechanists house).

As for the invisio, I almost never use it. Maybe three times in my entire Thief carreer. But once the ghost became clearly impossible, I switched my objective at the time to get all the loot with zero damage, not to ghost as many areas as possible. Invisio was then the only way. As a matter of fact, that move on the bar was quite tricky even with the invisio. Now, if I had used it in the church, that would have been going too far. There is a certain ethical standard we must uphold.:)

Danventry
13th Sep 2002, 23:09
FM Title: Hightowne Museum
Game: Thief 2 - TMA
Ghost: SUCCESS!
Perfect: SUCCESS!
Time: 26 minutes 26 seconds
Loot: 1887/1887
Pick Pockets: 1/2 (PP bug - all)
DD/DT/HT: 0 of course
Killed: 0 of course
Secrets: 0/0

Comments:
- Well put together mission, shadows exactly where you need them and guard timing was great.
- DO NOT climb down a rope arrow into the security room, because the rope gets in your way and you cannot get off
- I had trouble the first time I tried to ghost this mission because I could not go down a rope arrow from the boards and back up, but I had no trouble at all this time and did it right the first time.
- Going up the stairs to the top floor takes some luck and timing, and a handy key.

Vanguard
20th Sep 2002, 01:42
FM: Resurgence - The Ancient Crown
File: resurgence.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: 2 hr 26 min
Loot: 912 of 912
Pockets picked: 1 of 3
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 (not listed) Taken: 0 (not listed) Healing: 0
Killed: 0
Spectral beings slain: 0 (actually 1 for Cosh - required)
Secrets found: 0 (no total count listed)

Comments:
- This was a very difficult mission to ghost because many AIs, especially after the police got spawned, had eyes that swept at least 300 degrees around their head if not all the way around. They could see way too far behind themselves.
- I found the bronze square lockpick but never found the white triangular one. There are frobbable doors for which I found no key and cannot be picked using just the one bronze lockpick, so I don't know if you can get those doors opened.
- I stacked crates to get over the Stardawn gate, the big door is frobbable and opens, but that area is just for show and there's nothing there.
- From Knight's Square, you go SE to get to Lady Monroe's house (the gal said she gave you a map but there is no map in this mission). If instead you go SW, you'll find a barrel and some crates behind a house and a tunnel. The tunnel leads to a shaft but there's nothing there and you can't go up.
- You can take the river to get to a backway passage into Lady Monroe's (that is where I found the lone lockpick). You'll need a crate to get up from the tunnel to underneath the stairs. But this is an overly tight spot and you'll get stuck when you jump off the crate to under the stairs. I had to move sideways while tapping the lean forward key to smack my forehead past the bottom of the stairs to get atop the ground.
- Inside Lady Monroe's house is a cowboy gal with a purse under her arm pit. You can snatch the loot but the purse remains on her.
- There looks to be a secret panel in the bookshelf on the same wall as the inner wood door in the bookshop but in the opposite corner. Never found a way to open it.
- Amazing how the upper hallways guards go on full alert although I've made no noise to approach the door and I haven't even opened the door yet. They also, like most other AI, have almost 360 degree vision. Even if you're completely black, and even if they don't bump into you, if they get within a foot or so of you then they'll spot you crouching and cowering in a corner. In fact, they can see through some walls: I was crouching in the corner by the closet (with ladder to attic), the guard passed my by, was past the corner, and then alerted to seeing me through 2 walls there.
- The light gem has been altered in this FM. It is not nearly as good as the standard one. It changes between medium blue to dark grey. It is much harder to tell how much you are lit up or how fast is the change that you are getting lit.
- I gave up on trying to get past the upper hallway guards. They are too all seeing and it takes too long to get them together at the same end of the upstairs hallway. So instead I toted in some crates and piled them at the railing over the door to the basement to get in the upper hallway that way.
- I can walk around clanking on the tile floor, I can even shoot a guard (with the other at the other end of the hallway), and that's not enough noise to disturb the guests. But crouching and dropping a crate puts them onto alert. Leaning forward sometimes help to reduce the noise but often I just had to reload and get lucky that dropping a crate didn't set off the cowboy gal or her cohort in the next room. I used the topmost crates to stack up on the hallway side of the railing to get back out.
- When in the sub-basement, you can avoid contact with Cosh (who runs out into the hallway on your approach but continues running by although he alerts). Open the metal door and go about the 2nd pillar on the wall to set off the trigger, then run back out and hide to either side of the metal door back in the room. Cosh gets triggered to come out from from the room with the safe into that hallway but he disappears before getting to the metal door. He is scripted to act surprised on meeting you in the hallway - but you are not there!
- You MUST answer the phone to get new objectives and for the gate to open to Roath Park.
- Even if you use the key found next to Lady Monroe's corpse (killed by Cosh after he "passed" you) to open her door, the guards won't see her dead body (i.e., they don't alert). Considering how keen is their sight, this must've been an oversight. One guard stops right in front of her open door and is looking at her but still doesn't alert.
- The street police do not get spawned until you read the notice on the pavilion in the park. All of a sudden there are police where none were before.
- An officer remains standing at the outside of the park gate and faces it. There are 2 electric lights so there's no way to get out of the park - unless you chose the dark spell. You can douse the electric lights at the park gate. There is no way to aim so do a save before firing at the plasma cloud above the electric light.
- Not all these lights are dousable. Only the ones thought of by the author can be doused using the dark spell.
- The scroll at the pavilion indicates that you have to go back to Lady Monroe's house (to get the crown off Cosh). Not true. He also periodically materializes in town. I caught him at the pedestal with the history book and pews at the end of a road. I'd run in, hide in the dark, and snatch the crown off his head as he passed. He also materializes in the deadend garden past the metal door down the corridor near the bookshop leading toward the square; you're completely hidden there so you can easily snatch the crown off his head - provided that's where he materializes. On a subsequent reload, that's where I got the crown off of him.
- Unfortunately now I am outside of the square and getting back is nearly impossible. I'm on the starting side of town (with the bookshop and Steve whatever's office). I could take the river to Lady Monroe's house (either the secret back passageway or the landing next to her front door) or have to pass the female guard at Stardawn gate. I couldn't douse the electric light at the arch leading away from Lady Monroe's house so there was no way to get back to the street unseen by the guards in front of her house. I couldn't douse the electric light on the street near the guard at Stardawn gate. I crouched and pressed against the wall to approach this guard at the gate to approach and get by her. It took several quick taps to creep along the wall to get around it. She is is the only guard that has poor sight.
- Getting around the guard at the entrance to the subway was easier. Although he paces around in a tight circle right at the doorway, you can get close to the side of the doorway while dark and then trail behind him to dash in and down the stairs.
- Getting into the subway isn't possible without making noise. You get stuck at the gap between the landing and the subway car floor if you just try to walk or run into it. However, from that stuck point, you can lean in to get that objective checked off.

It was probably the author's intent that you fight or, at least, evade and that made this mission very hard to ghost. Especially when the AIs had exaggerated eyesight. Instead of Garret, you role play as some other character (Steve something) who is a private di<i></i>ck. You get a gun instead of blackjack, rope arrows, water arrows, and the typical stuff in Thief. When ghosting, you might as well as not take the gun since you won't be able to use it.

There was allusion in the FM's description that there is a secret to be found. Didn't find it. Supposedly some book or scroll has a hint but I couldn't stand reading all of it. But then I didn't find the white lockpick, either, and maybe I could've opened some of those frobbable doors that had no key or trigger to open them. Found an inset in bookshelf within the bookshelf in the bookshop but never found a way to open it.

Vanguard
20th Sep 2002, 02:48
FM: Retrieval
File: retri.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: 8 min
Loot: 7265 of 7565 (7000 required)
Pockets picked: 2
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 5 (required) Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 1 (required)

Comments:
- Even when I went through this FM in non-ghost mode, I could not find more than 7265 of loot.
- The outside doesn't like anyone. If I leave the front door open to the outside house, the servant goes on full alert if he spots the guard, runs around, the guard chases and kills him. I went in the front door (not knowing there was a side door) and left the door open. Had to reload to keep this door closed.
- The outside and inside guard are also enemies but appear to be timed to avoid each other. However, occasionally the outside guard will hunt for a short bit after spotting the inside guard that takes a short trip outside.
- I waited to kill the merchant (an objective) until the inside guard stepped outside so he wouldn't hear the scream of pain from the merchant.
- A journal in the merchant's house mentions a safe room in the other house. Never found it unless it was the back room behind the servant that you get into by picking the lock on the wood door.

This is a small mission but still has enough to practice your ghost moves, especially inside the merchant's house.

Vanguard
21st Sep 2002, 04:51
FM: Rescue!
File: rescue.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: 22 min
Loot: 0 of 0 (none required)
Pockets picked: 4 of 5
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 1 (required)
Damage dealt: 1 (required) Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0

Comments:
- You have to blackjack Gum Drop. The only way to get him back to the starting point (an objective) is to carry him.
- I got back to the starting point but the objective did not check off. Tried dropping him. Nope. Carried and dropped him to several places at the start. Nope. Had to hit Ctrl-Alt-Shift-End to end this FM.
- The longest part of this mission was getting stuck in the corner by the back fence wall watching the guards near Gum Drop's door and the next guards down the hallway until they were timed to be looking away so I could lug Gum Drop's butt past them.

Vanguard
21st Sep 2002, 22:21
FM: The Inventor's Tower
File: inventor.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: 27 minutes
Loot: 755 of 805 (600 required)
Pockets picked: 1 of 2 (max is wrong)
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 1 (optional objective)
Damage dealt: 1 (from knockout) Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0
Secrets found: 2 of 3
Bodies discovered by enemies: 1 (invalid count)

Comments:
- The knockout is an optional objective. Since it adds more to do to the mission, I elected to execute it.
- Dropping the inventor into the rat cage is not sufficient to check off that optional objective. *You* must also go down into the rat cage.
- No bodies were discovered regardless of the end-game statistic. The only bodies were for the thief you were supposed to find (but he was dead - but he was also in a locked lab room where no guards roam) - and for the inventor (that you knocked out), so only bodies discovered were discovered by *you*.
- Finding the schematics was difficult only in that the trigger requires you get very close to it before it illuminates to become frobbable.

Although a small mission, it still exercises your ghost techniques and timing.

Vanguard
22nd Sep 2002, 19:09
FM: Durant
File: durant.zip

Play mode: Ghost (failed - loot possibly missing)
Time: 3 hr 22 min
Loot: 2549 of 2807 (2600 required)
Pockets picked: 13 of 18
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 17 (mech child) Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 1 (required)

Cause(s) of failure:
- All the mission was ghosted and all objectives checked off except the loot objective. Went back in non-ghost mode, and still couldn't find any more loot. It is possible it was missing. In one run, the pen was missing so I couldn't write up the crate label (an objective). In another run, an envelope was missing (needed for another objective). So it is possible that some loot was missing, too.

Comments:
- After the ghost appears in the hotel room, it just stood there. Although I would encounter it in the crypts, upon return to the hotel room it was there still. I thought in a prior run that the ghost went away. Although it is supposed to be a ghost, it does alert when the arrow strikes the large vase when the floor trap is triggered. And the ghost will also set off the mine. Both the arrow noise and mine exploding will alert the street guard(s) so you have to jump over the mat at an angle (so as to not get too close to the mine).
- I could not find enough loot to satisfy the loot objective. I scrounged all of the mission which is why it took more than twice as long to play. Since some objects are sometimes missing when I've reloaded or even started afresh, maybe some loot was missing, too.
- An objective says to somehow find a way to destroy the mech child. I didn't notice anything in any reading material that told me how to do this. Since I am ghosting, I tend to rapidly cycle through my weapons to get to one that is usable, mostly the water and rope arrows. I noticed I had an acidic arrow but did not know when I picked it up. I didn't remember ever picking up any arrows except water and moss arrows. So I reloaded from a prior save and ran around trying to figure out when and where I got the acidic arrows. Turns out you pick up a jug (presumably of acid) and instead it becomes acidic arrows. You use these to off the mech kid.
- The mech kid cannot be picked up once destroyed. It roams where the guards roam so the guards would spot its body. So I had to alert the mech kid to lure it into the dark room in the basement (where the conveyor belt ends) to douse it with acid there so its body would not get discovered.
- I was using 2 inviso potions to get in and out of the Mech Temple before discovering the unlocked window.
- "Gather all relevant correspondence" couldn't be checked off because one of the 4 envelopes was missing (until a later reload). However, both the eavesdropping and correspondence objectives get checked off after you eavesdrop.
- In a journal, in the Mech Temple, I think, was mention of some area where Rammstein (the caterer) did not allow them to map out for his place when installing their devices. This hints at a a secret but I could not find a secret area there.

Vanguard
23rd Sep 2002, 01:09
FM: Your Last Breath
File: yourlastbreath.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: 32 minutes
Loot: 1015 of 1365 (1000 required)
Pockets picked: 0 of 1 (should be 0 of 0)
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0
Secrets: 0 of 0

Comments:
- Mechanists like metal for construction. All these metal floors and not one moss arrow.
- In the Mech Garage/Lab room, do NOT even open the ladder door to the upper level. Going up the ladder, getting on the floor, approaching the guard, or even just opening the ladder door to go up will set this guard on full alert. There is a drill bit and stone that count as 350 in loot. Since the max loot in the mission is 1365 and you need 1000 for the loot objective, it is a very tight squeeze for loot and you must get all other loot.
- The masks and gem in the Servants Quarters (which are rows of jail cells along a corridor) are impossible to get at from the inside. The servants face the corridor, they go on alert when they spot you, there is no way to turn off the electric lights, and the servants going on alert also alerts the black archer guard. You have to come in the other way (from outside).
- Getting the sacks of gold in the backroom of the chapel proved difficult. The roving guard in there has a short path and never pauses. You can start sneaking in the side door while the guard is stuck against the back pew to give you some distance toward the backroom door; otherwise, you would never have enough time to sneak on the metal floor (since you have absolutely no moss arrows) to get through and to the side of the backroom door so you are not spotted.

Vanguard
23rd Sep 2002, 23:23
FM: A Lesson Learned
File: lesson.zip

Play mode: Ghost (failed)
Time: 1 hr 20 min
Loot: 794 of 900 (700 required)
Pockets picked: 10 of 12
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Damage dealt: 1 Taken: 0 Heal: 0
Killed: 0

Cause(s) of failure:
- Inside front door guard at Whelan's would always spot me going up stairs, even when jumping from rope onto mossed landing and stairs.

Comments:
- There is a secret door in the sewers. I couldn't find the switch to open it for a long time. Hint: Garret cannot reach to tie his own shoes.
- Cannot get a gold wine bottle in a tiny kitechen in a house outside by the inn's main doors. A gal stands right in front of the floor cabinet with the bottle and you cannot get to her side to nudge her over (and you can't douse the light so she doesn't see you at her side).
- In Whelan's house, had to nudge the stationary kitchen maid to get her butt out of the way of getting the gold plates in the cabinet.
- Sometimes dousing a torch would alert the inside front door guard, so I had to douse it when he was looking to the side.
- When not ghosting and after alerting a whole bunch of AIs, some turn into virtual ghosts. Your blackjack, sword, and arrows pass right through them.
- I busted the ghost because I could not get up the stairs to the bedrooms at Whelan's house. I mossed up the landing and stairs and used a rope arrow to climb up and jump over the railing. But the front door guard would always spot me during the jump, or maybe he can see through the stairs. So I blackjacked him and lugged his butt out of sight so I could ghost the rest of the mission.

Vanguard
25th Sep 2002, 22:39
FM: Best Defense
File: bestdefense.zip

Play mode: Ghost (success)
Time: 37 minutes
Loot: 6140 of 6140 (5500 required)
Pockets picked: 1 of 4
Damage dealt: 0 Taken: 0 Healing: 0
Killed: 0
Secrets: 4 of 4

Comments:
- Came into jail area first using the elevator (sending it up) and a slowfall potion. Can also get in from inside. You need to get your cell key from inside.
- There is a key for the outside shed with the lighting control but I was already inside and polished off the mission objectives. You don't need to return to your starting point or find an exit to end the mission. Once the last objective gets checked off, that's the end of the mission.
- Sometimes the guard(s) in the basement of the house (near where you start) will alert when you douse a torch, sometimes not.

Danventry
26th Sep 2002, 01:56
FM Title: Breaking And Entering
Game: Thief 2 - TMA
Ghost: Success!
Perfect: Success!
Time: 14 minutes and 17 seconds
Loot: 0/0
Secrets: 0/0
Pick Pockets: 0/2
Damage/KOs/Etc: None ofcourse

Comments-
-This FM could have been Supreme Prefected, if not for the fact that there is one AI you cannot pass with out a 1st alert. The Ape next to the body will see you run to the dark niche (between the bookcase and wall) no matter what direction he is turned, but you can still ghost him.
- There are no AI to pick-pocket. The only AI with an item is dead when you get to the body, therefore a corpse. You cannot pick-pocket a corpse.

Deadfall
26th Sep 2002, 20:16
FM: Sir Lector Comes to Dine

Ghost - Success
Perfect Thief - Success
Time - 00:11:10
Loot - 710/710
Pockets Picked - 0/2
Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 15 Damage taken - 0
Healing taken - 0 Kills - 1

Comments - I don't believe this FM has been reported yet and some said they couldn't ghost it, so I tried it myself. It's a small mission but the only problem is killing Sir Lector; which is an objective. At first I tried to creep into the brightly lit bar room that he was in, but upon entering, I was just bright enough that his peripheral vision caught me and he began searching. So I tried running in and around the door to the wall to see if I was fast enough to get a first alert. This didn't work either. From here, I looked around the kitchen for loot and such and I opened a chest to receive 4 "steak knives". The steak knives were in my weapon inventory for some reason and I realized that these steak knives act as broadheads. So I doused the torches in the kitchen, opened the door to the bar room, positioned myself so I could aim at him with my bow, and let loose a steak knife. It worked and he let out a small "ugh!" as if he was blackjacked. The pocket I missed was the key on Sir Lector's belt and obviously I couldn't get close enough while he was alive to pick it.

Deadfall
26th Sep 2002, 21:09
FM: Lord Lomat's Flute

Ghost - Success
Perfect Thief - Failed
Time - 00:22:37
Loot - 717/992
Pockets Picked - 2/8
Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0 Damage taken - 0
Healing taken - 0 Kills - 0
Secrets Found - 0/0

Comments - Here is another FM that hasn't been reported. I remember trying this mission a long time ago and found it impossible to ghost because the AI is super alert and if you simply move by one of the guards a few yards away, or attempt to pick pocket them, they go alert. But I wasn't satisfied with my previous attempt so I tried again.

The first problem was the guard in the beginning of the mission that stands by the light post. If I hugged the wall and ran passed him, he would go alert even though im far enough away from him. So I tried creeping along the wall very slowly and only moving when he pivots and faces away from me. If I moved any faster than the "walk slowly" command while crouching, he would spot me. Creeping by him slowly seemed to work. Then came the other guard near the bridge which would alert if you even attempted to go on the bridge. So I avoided the bridge entirely and jumped down into the moat and then up to the side of the castle wall. I couldn't pick the key from one of the patrolling guards outside without alerting him so I went around to the back of the castle and entered through the kitchen/storage room. From here the AI seemed to be normal. The guards patrolling inside didn't seem to be overly alert like the ones outside. It was straightfoward ghosting from here and the only problem was finding loot. There was a room with a noble lady facing a shelf that had a purse on it. I couldn't get to the purse without alerting her, so I thought about nudging but I didn't bother since the purse wouldn't get me a perfect thief anyway. The author of this FM was very good at hiding loot. The hard to find loot included: a loose coin on the window sill with the shutters, a hard to see ring behind the dresser in Lord Lomat's room, a silver coin stack under Lord Lomat's bed, and a few loose coins on the ground next to the ottoman in Lord Lomat's office. I couldn't find the rest of the loot. I even started a separate game and went on a blackjack run to search for it and I was amazed after 30 minutes of searching with the gamma at its highest and my finger constantly right clicking the mouse, I still could not find any more loot.

Deadfall
26th Sep 2002, 21:35
FM: Throne Room

Ghost - Success
Perfect Thief - N/A
Time - 00:04:11
Loot - 0/0
Pockets Picked - 1/2
Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0 Damage taken - 0
Healing taken - 0 Kills - 0
Secrets Found - 0/0

I would hardly call this a mission. Im thrown into a dull marble room with 3 doors. One is locked and cant be open. The other door is pickable and upon entering, one of my objectives becomes complete and Garrett says, "It's a throne room, how pretentious can you get" even though it looked like a small bathroom to me.

Theres another problem in this mission also. The AI are totally blind unless you run up into their face or something. They cant hear anything it seems like, so I just walked by them, picked a key off one of the guards, and continued on. There is also no loot in this mission and I dont even know what my objectives really were or meant. "Get paper and find WC"...ok. I picked some scroll up in one of the rooms and went back to the bathroom or "Throne Room" and the objectives were complete. I only assume this was a ghost because even though I was walking infront of the AI in plain sight, they didn't go alert.

Danventry
26th Sep 2002, 22:47
Originally posted by Deadfall
FM: Lord Lomat's Flute
Perfect Thief - Failed


Comments -
I couldn't get to the purse without alerting her, so I thought about nudging but I didn't bother since the purse wouldn't get me a perfect thief anyway. The author of this FM was very good at hiding loot. The hard to find loot included: a loose coin on the window sill with the shutters, a hard to see ring behind the dresser in Lord Lomat's room, a silver coin stack under Lord Lomat's bed, and a few loose coins on the ground next to the ottoman in Lord Lomat's office. I couldn't find the rest of the loot. I even started a separate game and went on a blackjack run to search for it and I was amazed after 30 minutes of searching with the gamma at its highest and my finger constantly right clicking the mouse, I still could not find any more loot.

If case you wondered, the lady can actually be nudged to the far right (her right) corner of the room and you can get the pouch. The loot is quite hard to find in this FM. The only loot I had trouble with was the loot in the chest by the windowed balcony where the archer was. Is think that if you are slow, dark, fast and good at lock picking while leaning, you can get it. All pick-pockets are impossible (as are any). I think I heard once that there is some loot impossible to get, so I'm going to ask the creator before I try to ghost it again.

Danventry
27th Sep 2002, 01:21
FM Title: Sir Lector Comes to Dine
Game: Thief 2 - TMA
Ghost: Succes!
Supreme: Success!
Perfect: Success!
Time: 7 minutes 59 seconds
Loot: 710/710
Secrets: 0/0
Damage Delt: 22 (Objective)
Kills: 1
Pick Pockets: 0/2

Comments-
- Sir Lector walks around the house trying to kill you (which is actually a DromEd-trap, so not a bust)
- The kitchen gets extremely dark in some areas when you put out all the lights, so make sure you know your way around before you put the lights out.
- 1 Pick pocket I missed was the bug, the other was the key on Sir Lector (there is no way to pick pocket him w/o alerting him).

PS Admin. needs to close thread, make a new one, and put this one in the archives. Don't forget to copy the 1st post here onto the 1st post of the new thread (and the archive link to the this [old] thread). Please. :)

Peter_Smith
24th Oct 2002, 05:17
bump