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Wee Bald Man
5th Jul 2002, 16:48
I don't know whether this is possible, but it would be very useful if we could have a tool that allows us to merge PRJ files. Even if it only merged geometry (no textures or objects) it would still be very useful.

The tool would simply allow level designers to create rooms in different PRJ files and move them between projects (without having to manually copy and paste each one).

If any programmer wants to make this tool I would use it. I've included a poll so that you can see how useful it would be for the community.

Let me know what you think. :)

WBM

The Sage Of Time
5th Jul 2002, 17:15
I'm pretty certain this is possible, at least the rooms themselves. (not sure about textures or objects)
I'm not sure how often i'd personally use something like that though..
Still i'm sure it'd be of great use to avid level makers.

aktrekker
5th Jul 2002, 19:44
Do you plan on using the same room repeatedly in all your levels?

Wee Bald Man
5th Jul 2002, 19:59
Originally posted by aktrekker
Do you plan on using the same room repeatedly in all your levels?

Lol - no, not unless I was making Doctor Who and had to keep repeating the Tardis everywhere Lara went. :D

I personally would use it for the following reasons:

1) Currently I'm working on a game which has eight levels. Often I find that it is necessary to reduce the level because of memory problems. So I either create a new mini-level, or chop off the end of the level at a good point and add it to the beginning of the next level. For example, what started out as a small section of a village has now turned into three separate levels within a city. (I can't work with one PRJ file and delete parts of it and rename them because there isn't enough room in the editor to accommodate all the rooms.)

2) I have the Level Editor installed on three different machines - at home, on a lap-top and at work. Very often I build an idea I have for a puzzle or a room because it's quicker than writing it down. So, little bits of level grow in different PRJ files that I would like to be able to move to the main computer (the one at home). Also, it's not feasible to create three copies (one on each machine) of all the supporting media which I need to develop the levels (WADs, TGAs, texture library, sounds, music, FMVs etc) because, apart the difficulty of synchronising the modified files, the sheer number and size of them doesn't allow it (currently 11,472 files in 331 folders totalling 1.54 Gb). So, as you can imagine, it's getting a bit silly - and it's easier to work with just a PRJ file that is small enough to email to my home machine - hence the need for merge.


I would be happy with geometry export / import only, if it wasn't possible to do textures / objects as well.

Don't know if this idea is of any use: In order to avoid overlapping geometry (after a merge), users could be warned to move the geometry they were exporting to the upper left of the screen, and move the geometry of the file they importing into to the bottom right so that there's no clashing of data.

I would also be happy to rename rooms in one project so that they didn't conflict with names of imported rooms.

WBM

Driber
5th Jul 2002, 22:01
I once brought this up on the old, old forum (31 that is :D) and I still think it would be very useful

sometimes when I am designing a level, I get an idea that I work on further in a diffrent, temporary room.....usually that design doesn't fit the level and I keep it for other levels.....so it would be handy if I could move those rooms from the levels into a new project

Wee Bald Man
15th Jul 2002, 12:59
What do you think aktrekker? Would this be difficult to implement? Or do you feel that there is not a sufficient demand for this?

WBM :)

aktrekker
15th Jul 2002, 15:18
If you want objects, triggers, and lighting it could get a little complicated, but not too bad. Doors would be ok only if they don't have to connect to a room in the other project.
Just moving room geometry from one project to another would be pretty easy. Textures would be fine as long as both projects use the same TGA. Even animation ranges, bump level, and texture sounds wouldn't be too hard.
The rooms from one project could be placed at the end of the room list and moved to the top-left corner of the world. Then you could move them wherever you want.
While it might be a handy tool, I have to wonder how often it would be used? There aren't alot of replies in this thread. Maybe a new poll thread with a different title would get more responses.

Chronicles5
15th Jul 2002, 15:27
a program like that would be perfect for my exotic locations series as lara goes back and forth between the two levels in the location. :) that would make a great program!

MountainDewNut
15th Jul 2002, 15:41
I usually create fun rooms just to test out my skills. The rooms end up looking so good, I wish I would've created them in one of my levels.

KingSpyder
16th Jul 2002, 05:16
It'd be of use to the Conversion Project. We'd like to make a title fly-by using rooms from several of the levels and this would be useful for that. Others may use it for the same reason (it's an idea anyway).

Also, as others have stated, it'd help when you've done a really great room in a project and want it in another project.

Please consider this tool! I, for one, have wanted it for a long time!

aktrekker
16th Jul 2002, 11:26
I guess the next question would be how should it work?
Should it take all of one project and put it into another project?
Or should you be able to pick the rooms you want to copy?
Being able to pick the rooms makes it more complicated. You need to be able to select the rooms, so there has to be a way to view them. And they should all be connected by doors. Or maybe the doors could be deleted and each room copied individually, and you connect them in the other project.
In other words, will this be a fancy program with a complex GUI, or will you simply pick a project to copy and a project to add it to?

Wee Bald Man
16th Jul 2002, 12:26
Originally posted by aktrekker
Should it take all of one project and put it into another project?
Or should you be able to pick the rooms you want to copy?

I would say keep it simple: geometry and textures only - no room picking. Lighting, objects and triggers should be manually placed by the level-builder in the master project file (the final destination project file) otherwise it could get very messy and over-complicated (and therefore too time-consuming programming-wise).



Being able to pick the rooms makes it more complicated. You need to be able to select the rooms, so there has to be a way to view them.

I agree - picking rooms would be a unneccessary luxury - users can delete rooms that they don't want to export before merging their project into the master project file.



And they should all be connected by doors. Or maybe the doors could be deleted and each room copied individually, and you connect them in the other project.

Preferably doors should be possible to export as a lot of the time spent in creating a room (or series of rooms) is in careful placement of doors. (Objects, lights and triggers can be easily re-built but some rooms have incredibly complex door structures what with no-collision triangles, water, textured Opacity doors etc).



In other words, will this be a fancy program with a complex GUI, or will you simply pick a project to copy and a project to add it to?

Simple would be best - I feel that a complex GUI, in this case, would not be worth your effort (level builders will be glad to sweat a little in return for the convenience of using this tool). ;) :)

Something as simple to use and as powerful as TR2Prj (but geometry and textures only) would be perfect.

WBM :)

aktrekker
16th Jul 2002, 18:42
I'll look into it.

traider28
19th Jul 2002, 20:49
I personally would use this program very frequently, but I agree with WBM, keep it simple unless you have a lot of time to put in any little extra goods,objects etc. Hope to see it very soon.Thanks:D

aktrekker
30th Jul 2002, 12:54
I have something ready for testing. If WBM and KingSpyder want to test it, I'll send it to you. I only tested merging 2 tiny projects. Let me know how it works and I'll release it, or you can host it yourselves.

It only copies rooms and doors, nothing else. MAYBE I might add textures and lights - if the tool actually gets used.

Sorry it took so long. Up to this point, I've been doing quick-and-dirty one-off programs, and I had no reusable code. Since it seems I am stuck in project file tools, and I was starting from scratch anyway, I decided to take a little time and create something I can reuse in other tools.

KingSpyder
31st Jul 2002, 07:09
YES! Please send it to kingspyder@bwave.com and I'll test it to death :)

Wee Bald Man
31st Jul 2002, 08:43
Wow - excellent. This is great news. :)

I'd love to test this - please send to me using email icon.

WBM :)

aktrekker
31st Jul 2002, 10:52
Sent to KingSpyder.
But did the @#$% email icon go?

Wee Bald Man
31st Jul 2002, 20:37
Originally posted by aktrekker
But did the @#$% email icon go?

Whoops.. I didn't notice it had gone. You have to click on my 'Profile' button and then 'Click here to email Wee Bald Man'. But.. that doesn't accept attachments.. so.. here's my address: WBM@WeeBaldMan.com

aktrekker
1st Aug 2002, 15:46
Sent.

aktrekker
17th Feb 2003, 13:27
OK, who resurrected this old thing?

Tomb Raider Fan
17th Feb 2003, 22:30
I would use it sometimes for copying rooms. I think it would also be a great idea for people who are remaking levels. That kind of tool would be fantastic!!!!!!

aktrekker
18th Feb 2003, 12:56
Uhhh...that kind of tool exists.