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Oghamsmith
8th Apr 2016, 14:13
Denizens of Nosgoth,

It has been more than two and a half years since we partnered with the wonderfully mad men and women at Psyonix to embark upon a rather ambitious adventure. Our goal was to bring the world of Nosgoth to life in a new and challenging manner; a manner which allowed players to wage asymmetric warfare against each other as both human and vampire-kind.

A massive amount of work has gone into making Nosgoth a reality, and continually bringing new developments to the game. Our own teams, as well as the great guys at Psyonix, have dedicated a huge portion of themselves to making Nosgoth bigger and better over the years. Not only that, but dedicated community members provided a great deal of feedback that has been tremendously beneficial to the game. We are eternally grateful. Thank you one and all.

The above only makes today’s announcement that much more difficult.

It is with a heavy heart and an immense sense of sadness that we must announce the end of Nosgoth’s development. Servers will continue to run until 31st May 2016, during which time you will be able to play the game as normal. After that date, Nosgoth will be taken offline for the last time.

This was not an easy decision to come to. It has been a pleasure to build this game with your help, but ultimately its audience hasn’t grown enough to sustain ongoing operations.

On behalf of the entire Nosgoth team we want to thank you all for your feedback, support and dedication to the game throughout Nosgoth’s life.

Should you have any additional questions, please read this FAQ:



Can I still play the game?
Yes, new and existing players will be able to continue to play Nosgoth until 31st May 2016. Players will no longer be able to make real world purchases in the game.

Am I entitled to a refund?
All purchases made since 1st March 2016 will be automatically refunded.

Where and when can I claim a refund?
You won't be required to claim a refund as all eligible refunds will be automatically processed in the next 14 days. Email notifications will be sent out when the refund has been proceed. For all other inquiries, you can contact Square Enix customer support at support.nosgoth.com or Steam customer support support.steampowered.com.

How long will it take to process the refund?
Refunds for in game purchases or purchases through the web store will be processed as soon as possible and, in any case, within 14 days.
Refunds for purchases of the Definitive Pack on the Steam Store will be processed from week commencing 18th April 2016.

Where will I receive my refund?
Any in-game purchases made through Steam Wallet will have credits refunded to their Steam Wallet. For purchases of the Definitive pack on Steam Store please see the Steam Refunds Payment Methods section for details on how these refunds will be applied (http://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds_methods). Any purchases made through the Nosgoth Website or in-game through the native client will be refunded to your method of payment used to make the original purchase. Please contact Square Enix Customer Support at support.nosgoth.com for further information.

Will there be any more updates for Nosgoth?
No further updates are planned for Nosgoth.

Are there going to be more Leagues seasons?
There will be no more Leagues seasons.

What does this mean for Nosgoth Cups run by ESL?
The Nosgoth Open Beta Cup Series will continue to run in April after which they will cease. For details of the upcoming cups visit http://play.eslgaming.com/nosgoth/global

What happens to the Runestones and Gold in my account?
You will be able to carry on using Runestones and Gold until the game is taken offline. Runestones are no longer available for purchase but you can still earn Gold by completing public matches.

Will the automatic refund remove game content purchased since 1st March?
No, no game content will be removed.

What will happen to the forum on www.Nosgoth.com?
The Nosgoth forum will remain online until 14th June 2016, after which it will be taken offline.

What does this mean for the Legacy of Kain franchise?
Any future Legacy of Kain project will be considered independently of Nosgoth and on the merits of the proposals alone.

Duflux
8th Apr 2016, 14:17
I cant believe it... im angry and sad. Im switching my comp off for a bit.

Vampmaster
8th Apr 2016, 14:19
How long ago was this decided? There's been hardly any communication since the beastmaster update and I was wondering if this was the reason. The sloppy beastmaster patch can only have made this worse, as you seemed to be talking about moving into release until then.

Would it be possible to show us anything of the unfinished Rahabim class? It's the least you could do at this point.

Do you think SE would consider allowing any of Nosgoth's art assets to be used in a SE Collective project?

ZittoN_
8th Apr 2016, 14:20
LIKE WE DIDN'T KNOW THIS ALREADY!!

Ysanoire
8th Apr 2016, 14:36
Wow, just wow. I am SO angry right now.

Throughout the entire beta period the whole community has been SCREAMING about what's wrong with the game and nearly none of the feedback was ever heard. And now you're all "oh noes, there isn't enough audience to sustain the game, where did we go wrong, herp derp".

I am genuinely pissed at the person making the decisions regarding this game. Good job, you ruined a potential gem.

Farnbeak
8th Apr 2016, 14:38
This is so very very very sad... I wish we could play it as private matches like all the oldschool lan games with the organisation of our discord, but ofc we're tied to synchronisation/SQenix accounts/launcher...

I really wish that at least some of you guys, anyone connected to the development of Nosgoth in the last year would speak up to Gamasutra or some other outlet, even if unanimously and share your view.
Having spent so much time with this beautiful game and grown into it and its community psychologically I would really love to hear your inside story and the struggles you've had!
As noted above I would really love to know more about the decision making that made people around this game on both sides suffer. Also sad our fresh feedback initiative gone to waste as did most of the feedback anyway...

Thanks for all the good times... and the bad ones too.

Zarxiel93
8th Apr 2016, 14:39
NO NO NO NO!! I CAN'T BELIVE THIS!!!
Why? :(
I supported this the most I can... and now... DAMN...
I do a lot for try to complete all, to have all skins, and I hoped you will done the trade system to gain the 2 skins I lost... I cannot belive this... is really sad.
No Rahabim
No Elite Beastmaster
...
Damn, my heart is now broken :(

Vampmaster
8th Apr 2016, 14:40
This is so very very very sad... I wish we could play it as private matches like all the oldschool lan games with the organisation of our discord, but ofc we're tied to synchronisation/SQenix accounts/launcher...

I really wish that at least some of you guys, anyone connected to the development of Nosgoth in the last year would speak up to Gamasutra or some other outlet, even if unanimously and share your view.
Having spent so much time with this beautiful game and grown into it and its community psychologically I would really love to hear your inside story and the struggles you had!

Thanks for all the good times (and the bad ones ;))

I'd recommend contacting Mama Robotnik on NeoGaf with any such info.

SirSleepALot
8th Apr 2016, 14:41
https://media.giphy.com/media/jzbj7OPhjNXAk/giphy.gif

"ultimately its audience hasn’t grown enough to sustain ongoing operations. "

I'm sorry, but the audience was already here. You just ****ed up the game by not listening to your community.

Zarxiel93
8th Apr 2016, 14:43
This mean after 31 May I cannot play anymore?

Roy644
8th Apr 2016, 14:44
The "not enough players to support the game development" is such BS guys. Seriously, you gave away literally several 10k$ on crappy/buggy leagues and after this you have the nerve to say that you don't have enough money ?? This is ridiculous. It's not the lack of players, it's the business decisions you made and the crappy state of the game that killed it. Don't hide under the "not enough players" cover...

senjuj
8th Apr 2016, 14:44
rekt. rip.
lol when not seen this thread (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=188524&p=2209054#post2209054)

Sasha_Vykos
8th Apr 2016, 14:49
This is the worst news ever.. I spent 2 years and 2k hours on this game.. u guys should be ashamed. We gave you plenty of feedback to try to make thid game better cause we care so so much about it, and you always have done the opposite. This is what you really deserve in the end: a great game destroyed by bad decisions.

I thank you for the enterteinment u gave me in these 2 years, I can say the concet of the game is awesome for real. I hate you cause of the development decision and everything that you already know.

Please think about it: when the open beta started we had a peak of 11k players.. after a couple of month the peak was 1000-1500 as best so you coudlnt even mantein 2 players out of 10. Every patch the game got worse and worse.. I think you need to make a "mea culpa" about it, its not the players that did not want t play the game.. the players would have played it if the game would have worked properly and if horrible decisions wouldnt have taken.

And to quote someone: "People didn't quit this game because lack of content. They quit the game because they couldn't ******* launch it."

lucinvampire
8th Apr 2016, 14:51
I am completely devastated to hear the news; in truth I’ve shed tears. I will 100% miss the game and the people I have played with and met over my time playing the game and moderating the forum.

I would like to thank the team at Psyonix for producing such a great and fun game, and for allowing this crazy vampire fangirl annoy them for a morning in their office, it was indeed a dream!

It was great to meet everyone, especially make friends in the community and SE giving us the opportunity to actually meet in person.

I would just like to say a BIG THANK YOU to the devs for allowing us to have all the fun and frolics we have over the last few years, it has indeed been a wild ride!

Though in my heart I do question some of the decisions that have been made along the way, and I think some of these decisions made the grave for Nosgoth to rest its head.

It is a shame it has all come to an end, and that there isn’t a way those loyal could help fund something to come out of this that we could still play in some way/shape, it is such a great game and truly an end of an era.

Finally I just want to say I love you all and I hope those who know me will keep in contact even though we will not have this wonderful world to play in, you have all have a special place in my heart!

*Tyrant hugs*

kriss80858
8th Apr 2016, 14:53
Good job, you ruined a potential gem.

Does anyone thinks these days, that games are done for "potential" gain? They wanted to make the next LoL, they failed and now they don't want to lose more money by keeping Nosgoth alive. "That's all Folks!"

enkaku-silence-
8th Apr 2016, 15:04
Wow, just wow. I am SO angry right now.

Throughout the entire beta period the whole community has been SCREAMING about what's wrong with the game and nearly none of the feedback was ever heard. And now you're all "oh noes, there isn't enough audience to sustain the game, where did we go wrong, herp derp".

I am genuinely pissed at the person making the decisions regarding this game. Good job, you ruined a potential gem.

This. All of this.

The communication with the community was really bad, the advertisement was basically nonexistent.
I also think Overwatch and Battleborn had some influence on this.
Both games that I won't play, because ironically, I am not into competitive multiplayer games.
What brought me here was LoK, and I really enjoyed Nosgoth gameplay wise.

I guess you won't hear and see much from me after the end of Nosgoth, since I will go back to my storydriven single player games.
Thanks to all of you, and the games we played.

LorenCole
8th Apr 2016, 15:05
Well... finally. The game was slowly dying and we ALL knew that.

I've played the game since the closed beta. I've bought AFTER being invited to play the game FREE the founder pack, the Warband, convinced that Nosgoth would have been a PERFECT addition to the LoK franchise. I've bought skins, I've spent more than 350 hours playing the game, every day, after returning from Uni.

I've been a good tester, taking screenshots of bug and glitches, coming frequently to the forums, giving my opinions and reviews.

I've invited FRIENDS to play the game (and soon I've been left alone playing the game, because not ONE of them trusted this game), I've checked regularly for updates and news about the *coff coff* lore *coof coof*, the classes and the maps...

Until I've noticed the Steam charts. Until I've understand that Nosgoth have come out from beta way too soon. Until I've realized that you didn't really care about hardcore LoK fans, but you've put all your efforts in giving us an incomplete game, but visually stunning.

No story (and I've already done it examples of successful multiplayer games with some kind of story in YEARS of debating here in the forum), no new abilites, ADS IN LOADING SCREENS, no other modes than a capture the flag, team deathmatch and king of the hill...

You deserve it. The game had many problems, and you have just ignore them in the large part.

Roy644
8th Apr 2016, 15:08
Does anyone thinks these days, that games are done for "potential" gain? They wanted to make the next LoL, they failed and now they don't want to lose more money by keeping Nosgoth alive. "That's all Folks!"

Yeah, THEY failed to maintain the community to a decent level. The concept itself is just amazing and can give a much better game, that's the point. It's unfair and cowardish to say "we stopped because not enough players" when they actually killed a game with much more potential. Square Enix and Psyonix should admit that. And hell, there was still a lot of supporting players at the core of the fanbase, even in this horrible state. So their argument is invalid.

enkaku-silence-
8th Apr 2016, 15:10
Does anyone thinks these days, that games are done for "potential" gain? They wanted to make the next LoL, they failed and now they don't want to lose more money by keeping Nosgoth alive. "That's all Folks!"

They did not want to make the next LoL. This has nothing to do with Mobas whatsoever.
Blizzard made the next LoL with Heroes, and it kind of worked, because it is Blizzard.

It was just a leftover multiplayer mode of Dead Sun, they gave it a try and it did not work.
The concept unfortunately did not fit into f2p, but to make it p2p would've been to risky.
Overwatch and Battleborn switched to p2p because of that.

Vampmaster
8th Apr 2016, 15:16
OMG OMG I mean F U who ever decided to cancel this game. Game is one of the best on line team death match titles ever. Game is ruined by patches. Normal stuff like team up with steam friends and some glitches in game. Server bugs like finding a game for ages made players leave. PLUS game HAD very bad Match making. Problem was when experience player meet with NOOB - Noob get rect and leaves and don’t play game (problem was small player base).

I meen I have like 1200h + in this game and made a lot of friends in community a lot of good times in game and THANK YOU FOR THAT.Havent play Nosgoth like last month because of work and freeking today I come back and NEWS like this OMG.

At least make somehow NOSGOTH title downloadable to play on private SERVERS. I will donate for one!!

They must have had that for the games at events and stuff. Perhaps kickstarter?

Zerobot1
8th Apr 2016, 15:16
People won't ever know the gem that was right under their noses. Doubt I'll see a multiplayer experience quite like it again, with a lore I've been invested in for years and a decent F2P system to boot. I wanted to pick it up again and finish up my leveling at some point, but I guess I was part of the problem putting off playing it for so long, how depressing...

All those awesome character designs and I'll never get to lay my eyes on them in action again.

Roy644
8th Apr 2016, 15:16
At least make somehow NOSGOTH title downloadable to play on private SERVERS. I will donate for one!!

This. Allow players to create/host servers even after the end of the game. Get rid of the launcher before doing that, let people join through Steam, like the old times and everything should work fine. It's not much to ask I think. See, the playerbase still cares much than you about YOUR game :)

Ryugan34
8th Apr 2016, 15:21
You guys (dev) reap what you sow .

For months (years), feedbacks were made to help the game getting better . Never was any of these feedbacks taken into account .
At best, you were telling us that we couldnt understand how things worked, best example being league point system : from day one, people were voicing their doubts about that fooked up system where nothing made sense . What happened ? you guys never changed it and now you just flat out say everything is over, not even questionning the why the game didnt meet the players expectations .

Matchmaking ? "not enough players to have it work fine, deal with it" when every players that actually played your game, just knew that having the matchmaking works AFTER every players are in the lobby wont ever work, whatever the player database is .

Bugs ? "we have taken your complaint into account, and we are working on it actively" . Results ? "here, look at those shiny RNG based pay chests to make you forget about bugs, hope you buy a ton of them" Most of the bugs were never addressed .


Despite all of this, i had a blast playing this game (except towards the end where the game was utterly unplayable) .
It was pretty much close to an addiction, because the game had f.ing potiental, but you just trashed it for money and in favor of rocket league .

Gonna regret the game from 1y ago, but not gonna miss how you handled it at all .

kriss80858
8th Apr 2016, 15:21
They did not want to make the next LoL. This has nothing to do with Mobas whatsoever.
Blizzard made the next LoL with Heroes, and it kind of worked, because it is Blizzard.

It was just a leftover multiplayer mode of Dead Sun, they gave it a try and it did not work.
The concept unfortunately did not fit into f2p, but to make it p2p would've been to risky.
Overwatch and Battleborn switched to p2p because of that.

By "the next LOL" I meant multiplayer with similarly big community and by extention similar profit. As someone said - there was virtually no advertisement and most players were enticed not by the game itself, but by the concept of "the next Legacy of Kain".

enkaku-silence-
8th Apr 2016, 15:30
I feel Psyonix' hands were bound by Squeenix. All the marketing bs we complained about came from SE. The launcher was a really stupid idea. I bet some Squeenix white collar thought they would get more players by making it available outside of Steam. Yeah right, you sir should be fired.

Edit:
Plus Psyonix probably felt more comfortable with Rocket League, which is self published and successful.

EmpathyuK
8th Apr 2016, 15:31
Haha nice joke guys, A week too late on the April fools. Almost got me.

All jokes aside I cannot say I'm surprised, I knew this day would come long time a go even said it in the useless developer streams yet orghamsmith disagreed with me and tried to convince me the future of nosgoth would be awesome haha clowns.

There has been so many complains regarding nerfs/bug fixes/exploits ruining the game yet you developers never acknowledged the community when we point theses things out, We are clearly trying to help polish this game you guys are struggling to do. 2 full years and nosgoth is still no way near ready for release? How many more ingame chests was you planning to put in the store before thinking it's a good time to fully release game now? Not to mention the cheap ass class skins with the same model reworked color every time. What happened to being creative but enough of that theses are all cosmetics that nobody needs.

We were promised great things but you developers have failed us as well as yourselfs, All this time spent for nothing is pretty sad. Obviously your priorities are way off if you think tweaking the sky of the maps ingame that nobody even looks at needs to be darker in your eyes then boy just shut this game down today don't let it suffer till 31st of may.

Just sell the Legacy of Kain franchise to another company maybe they do a better job of the dump you created on this one

Wolf_the_Legend
8th Apr 2016, 15:34
give the game to smb who can revamp the game ....


I'll definitely play it.

I mean all the games I played in my life (I´m probably older than the average Nosgoth player), I played everyone maybe 5-20h and some for 150h.

I played Nosgoth for 1.841 it's not like ppl don´t want to play the game ... u just making it ridiculous hard for them to stay playing the game. Because ppl will get mad over bugs that dont get fixed, needed balance changes not coming.

Don´t know if u just picked the wrong engine to develop the game ... but whatever it was it´s sad u can´t fix it.

give the game to smb who can revamp the game ....

enkaku-silence-
8th Apr 2016, 15:34
Obviously your priorities are way off if you think tweaking the sky of the maps ingame that nobody even looks at needs to be darker in your eyes then boy just shut this game down today don't let it suffer till 31st of may.

It was in preparation for the Rahabim class... which will never be released.

ina991
8th Apr 2016, 15:36
btw why are you returning purchases only made from 1st March 2016....

ukdrewuk
8th Apr 2016, 15:37
Such wasted potential.

kriss80858
8th Apr 2016, 15:39
Just sell the Legacy of Kain franchise to another company maybe they do a better job of the dump you created on this one

This. But why, if they can possibly milk the cow and don't have to feed it...

Garfild_ru
8th Apr 2016, 15:41
give the game to smb who can revamp the game ....


I'll definitely play it.

I mean all the games I played in my life (I´m probably older than the average Nosgoth player), I played everyone maybe 5-20h and some for 150h.

I played Nosgoth for 1.841 it's not like ppl don´t want to play the game ... u just making it ridiculous hard for them to stay playing the game. Because ppl will get mad over bugs that dont get fixed, needed balance changes not coming.

Don´t know if u just picked the wrong engine to develop the game ... but whatever it was it´s sad u can´t fix it.

give the game to smb who can revamp the game ....


My heart is bleeding!
And I'm signing after each word.

Soiuxsie
8th Apr 2016, 15:41
Well this is a sad thing that happened to be honest, specially after all that work and commitment from LoK and Nosgoth fans. I'm not gonna sugar coat it you guys never listened to the forum totally ignored the feedback so you are the only ones to blame for the lack of a player base.

Psyonix we are giving you a hard time now because we wanted this to be a good game, putting our hopes in you but failed everyone I just hope that this will be an important lesson to you guys.

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/o9ikkkm6qyp6giu8rpq7.gif

LorenCole
8th Apr 2016, 15:43
Well this is a sad thing that happened to be honest, specially after all that work and commitment from LoK and Nosgoth fans. I'm not gonna sugar coat it you guys never listened to the forum totally ignored the feedback so you are the only ones to blame for the lack of a player base.

Psyonix we are giving you a hard time now because we wanted this to be a good game, putting our hopes in you but failed everyone I just hope that this will be an important lesson to you guys.

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/o9ikkkm6qyp6giu8rpq7.gif

Nice post, and nice reference.

Ryugan34
8th Apr 2016, 15:43
You guys should just go into politic . You got all the assets to have your way in there : lies, lies, pretending to listen to voters while not giving a damn, lies again and when everything crumbles, just say you made everything you could, and dont understand why its not working .

This thread is just going to be a mine of salt, and i needed to put my big crystal in .

What better way to fix all those bugs than to just totally erase them all by erasing the game Kappa

Varulven
8th Apr 2016, 15:44
Srsly guys, I've been mad with the game often because it was buggy as hell. But now I'm mad at you, Sqeenix!!
Psyonix guys, please look out for a smaller indie publisher who can help out, Nosgoth hast too much potential to be cancelled!

LorenCole
8th Apr 2016, 15:47
Srsly guys, I've been mad with the game often because it was buggy as hell. But now I'm mad at you, Sqeenix!!
Psyonix guys, please look out for a smaller indie publisher who can help out, Nosgoth hast too much potential to be cancelled!

How about copyrights and licenses? CD and Eidos with Square Enix.

Roy644
8th Apr 2016, 15:50
Srsly guys, I've been mad with the game often because it was buggy as hell. But now I'm mad at you, Sqeenix!!
Psyonix guys, please look out for a smaller indie publisher who can help out, Nosgoth hast too much potential to be cancelled!

I would love that. But you forget that Square Enix owns the LoK franchise. That means anyone who wants to publish Nosgoth without Square Enix being a part of the process would need to buy the entire franchise...

BZiGER
8th Apr 2016, 15:54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSjk1ZWLdnc

Varulven
8th Apr 2016, 15:54
I would love that. But you forget that Square Enix owns the LoK franchise. That means anyone who wants to publish Nosgoth without Square Enix being a part of the process would need to buy the entire franchise...

Why own the right if nothing more is coming? I don't see any logic in that. They should sell the right and move on. But to cancel a game that we already learned to love ist cruel!

LorenCole
8th Apr 2016, 15:55
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/31852677049292811/506F07E4F9FE4785B2445CBAFE98876965A4616C/

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/31852677049297572/2C9DC01467E397CA6D739E6F06781CF94AB254E3/

The good old days when this was funny

ZittoN_
8th Apr 2016, 15:57
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSjk1ZWLdnc

LorenCole
8th Apr 2016, 15:58
Why own the right if nothing more is coming? I don't see any logic in that. They should sell the right and move on. But to cancel a game that we already learned to love ist cruel!

What if Square wants to do a singleplayer LoK? And why sell a title that has a HUGE fanbase still now?

itsRagnaros
8th Apr 2016, 15:58
Alright, I understand there is nothing more the community can do... but honestly before Nosgoth shuts down, I want all the money u guys owe me... I've made multiple tickets everywhere emailed everyone u guys told me too... still haven't received a dime for months. Someone from psyonix or SE please reply to this post, it's the least u can do....

Varulven
8th Apr 2016, 16:00
Trust me, this will never ever happen...

Roy644
8th Apr 2016, 16:01
Why own the right if nothing more is coming? I don't see any logic in that. They should sell the right and move on. But to cancel a game that we already learned to love ist cruel!

Yeah I know, but even if they don't do anything else with the franchise, they're still a big greedy company that wants to make money. I think that they'll want to make a lot of profit selling the franchise... And not a lot of companies out of there can afford such a thing.

But yeah, I totally agree with you, the right thing to do for Square Enix is to admit their failure and not punish the players who love the game for their lack of insight during the development. They simply should look for someone who is ready to continue to support this game and make it what it should be, an awesome asymmetrical PvP game, like no other out there. But that won't happen.

LorenCole
8th Apr 2016, 16:03
Even FFXIII versus was a lost cause. Or Detroit Being Human.

Captain3009
8th Apr 2016, 16:03
Well, this is it then. Sad times. I'm really depressed right now. :(

I was here since the closed alpha and was so happy i got a invite for the game. These 2 and a half years now was a wonderfull experience for me. It became a habbit for me in the evening, turning my pc on after i came home from work and then waiting for my friends to come online for some awesome games.

I'm Captain3009, not the best gamer ever, maybe some of you saw me now and then in game, some called me a retart, a noob and other toxic names, but you know what, i forgive you all because this is...was a fantastic awesome community.

And all the people i became friends with since this game is also special. Thank you all for that.

I wanna thank esspecially Lucinvampire and Vampmaster for accepting me as who i am (and with my bad english) and for being the best teammates on this planet. It is/was lots of fun with you guys. I really don't know what to do next, I gonna miss our evening game time together as hell. ( i'm crying my eyes out right now and yes i'm a softy)

Also thank you too the other friends on my Nosgoth friendlist for accepting me on steam.

@Psyonix: you guys are special, its because of you guys that I met all these awesome people and new friends. A big thank you for that and keep up the awesome and nice work you guys do. :worship:

@SE: what can i say, you love money more than us, so ****you. I hate you. :mad:

@the moderators: thank you all for a fantastic job here at the forum.

Well thats it, this is my 160th entry here and probably my last. I'm going back now to my boring and lonesome life of two and a half years ago.

May you all live long and prosper.

This is Captain3009 signing off....


The End.

Oghamsmith
8th Apr 2016, 16:03
Hello there everyone,

Today is indeed a sad day. This is difficult and upsetting scenario for all involved. With that said, while there's quite a bit of anger and frustration (which is entirely understandable), it's great to see so many of you remembering the fun times that you've had while playing Nosgoth; as well as the many friendships that have been formed as a result.

I do want to address a handful of questions that have come up since the announcement.

Will we rebuild Nosgoth to be able to run in a standalone environment with player-hosted servers?
This is not feasible I'm afraid. Nosgoth was designed and built to run with a live operations team present to support the game. The live service is intertwined fairly heavily throughout. The act of bringing a server online, allowing a player to login and connect, and ensuring that their profile and unlocks can be pulled in order to give them their items is at the core of Nosgoth, and requires the online service to run.

Will it be possible to play Nosgoth after the 31st of May?
No, the live service will be shut off after that point. It will not be possible to play Nosgoth after the 31st of May.

Will we be revealing anything more about the planned Rahabim based class?
That is unlikely. A great deal of work was still required to make that class a fleshed out reality.

To those of you who've had kind words for everyone involved with Nosgoth, community & devs alike. Thank you. To those of you who are angry, sad and/or frustrated, I cannot fault you. That kind of reaction is completely understandable, and I'm sorry that you've had to experience that.

Vampmaster
8th Apr 2016, 16:06
Hello there everyone,

Today is indeed a sad day. This is difficult and upsetting scenario for all involved. With that said, while there's quite a bit of anger and frustration (which is entirely understandable), it's great to see so many of you remembering the fun times that you've had while playing Nosgoth; as well as the many friendships that have been formed as a result.

I do want to address a handful of questions that have come up since the announcement.

Will we rebuild Nosgoth to be able to run in a standalone environment with player-hosted servers?
This is not feasible I'm afraid. Nosgoth was designed and built to run with a live operations team present to support the game. The live service is intertwined fairly heavily throughout. The act of bringing a server online, allowing a player to login and connect, and ensuring that their profile and unlocks can be pulled in order to give them their items is at the core of Nosgoth, and requires the online service to run.

Will it be possible to play Nosgoth after the 31st of May?
No, the live service will be shut off after that point. It will not be possible to play Nosgoth after the 31st of May.

Will we be revealing anything more about the planned Rahabim based class?
That is unlikely. A great deal of work was still required to make that class a fleshed out reality.

To those of you who've had kind words for everyone involved with Nosgoth, community & devs alike. Thank you. To those of you who are angry, sad and/or frustrated, I cannot fault you. That kind of reaction is completely understandable, and I'm sorry that you've had to experience that.

Not even the Rahabim concept art? Did it at least get that far? What about my question about whether SE would ever allow Nosgoth's art assets in an SE Collective game?

Garfild_ru
8th Apr 2016, 16:06
Why Square Enix knows how to sell other games, but can't do the same with Nosgoth?
Pick another company to develop the game. Maybe bigger and better. Make a good marketing moves.
DO SOMETHING!!!

Varulven
8th Apr 2016, 16:07
Can we have at least some content of the characters we love so much? Like Pictures, sound bits or something like that? I'll miss my guys and gals on the battlefield... I will miss them so much *cries*

Roy644
8th Apr 2016, 16:10
Why Square Enix knows how to sell other games, but can't do the same with Nosgoth?
Pick another company to develop the game. Maybe bigger and better. Make a good marketing moves.
DO SOMETHING!!!

Yeah, I thought about this to. How a game with such a huge publisher behind it can die so easily ? And with such an amazing concept behind it ? It's simply because they didn't care enough, because they made it a F2P game expecting it to be a big cashgrab with tons of players giving them money for stupid chests. But it never became that, and they never did anything to make it better than that.

calypso-694
8th Apr 2016, 16:13
if someone could gather up all the art and concept stuff released in a zip file that would be awesome. hopefully the youtube page is still around after this.

also a release of the rahabim concept arts/possible final version/ test footage would be a good parting gift.

this sucks. Nosgoth was the only online game I played and I don't like online stuff really. loved this game or hated it, it did justice to LOK. RIP nosgoth :( I shouldn't have to be saying that. sigh. cries.

Oghamsmith
8th Apr 2016, 16:20
Not even the Rahabim concept art? Did it at least get that far? What about my question about whether SE would ever allow Nosgoth's art assets in an SE Collective game?

While I can't rule it out entirely. It's unlikely that Nosgoth's assets will be transferred to any other title.

Bazielim
8th Apr 2016, 16:29
Well it's certainly a day of mixed emotions.

On the one hand Nosgoth's development in recent times has not gone as well as we'd have liked, but on the other to have it end like this after so many of us have invested so much time into playing and helping the game is heartbreaking.

For me Nosgoth has been a very personal journey of development. A little over three years ago I was a rabid fan of a long-dead franchise desperately trying to document as much as I could before it all faded - working in the dark and not knowing whether anyone even looked at any of it.

In the time since we dug up the first hints of Nosgoth so much has changed and I feel I must offer my heartfelt thanks to the developers and publishers for trying to make this work, even in the end it didn't work out. I feel privileged to have met and befriended so many fantastic people through this project - from devs and publishers, to the marketers, the old-school lore hounds, the fans of the old and the new, the casuals, the competitives, the lovers ... and the haters. We've stood together, interacted, played, worked and heatedly debated the finer points of this for nearly three years... and yes as many may know I met the love of my life thanks to Nosgoth, so it's a bittersweet moment for us.

But if I've learnt nothing from this franchise it's this: nothing stays dead forever and there is always hope for the future however dark it can seem now.

So thank you one and all for the memories and the experiences. Hope to see you all again soon. And remember this isn't goodbye, this isn't the end - it's just returning to the wheel to begin anew.
Time Kain? Next Time.

Razielim1993
8th Apr 2016, 16:40
Someone take all the information and all the images on the forums and save it perhaps post it on the wiki. Cause damn it if we're going to let them just them be deleted. All that work deserves better than that.

Mister_Moo
8th Apr 2016, 16:41
it makes me sick how you people can get away with this, just because its online and not a material thing..

if you was in the construction trade you would be known as Cowboy Builders and nobody would pay you nothing or say thanks for the good times.

how can you call yourselves game developers when you cant understand the fact making games comes with bugs, which need to be fixed.

nobody cared for chests, nobody cared for new maps much, nobody cared for vanguard or beast master or new skins..

simple bug fixes could of saved the game and made it have huge player base which would roll in tons of money but you dont understand that?

shameful of you.

sell the game.

Vampmaster
8th Apr 2016, 16:46
While I can't rule it out entirely. It's unlikely that Nosgoth's assets will be transferred to any other title.

And my question about the Rahabim concept art? I know you said they weren't fully realised in-game, but can we at least see the sketches? It's just for closure, plus I'd like to make some accurate (non-made-up) fan art.

SirRudyMan
8th Apr 2016, 16:47
Will your Nosgoth achievements stay on Steam or will they be removed?

eldavimost
8th Apr 2016, 16:50
You guys are a bunch of idiots, If you just fix bugs THAT HAVE BEEN HERE FROM DAY ONE Old players will come back and play and the new players will stay...
I really don't understand how game developers like you can make games with lots of potential and throw it away by only adding new "****" that nobody wanted or asked for, which only brings even more bugs... literally how stupid are you people this game hasn't grown because you are not fixing this stuff.
There are so many people who want to play this game but are tired of the bugs I.E getting stuck on walls, no damage because of a slope on the ground. cant aim and walk on stairs at same time. flying through the sky from climbing, really bad matchmaking, being able to fully stack.
these are the reasons people leave the game... not because they don't want to play it or don't like it. people love this game but you ignore us when we give you this feedback. you say you fix stuff but you don't. or the fixes you do' do are nto what needs to be done. your'e priority's are all wrong.

You guys should be fired!

PLEASE SELL YOU'RE GAME TO A COMPANY WHO CARE, KNOW'S HOW TO FIX BUGS, LISTENS TO COMMUNITY AND CAN MAKE THE GAME PLAYABLE

I am too sad and disappointed to write anything, you guys let me without words... But basically what he said, THERE ARE THOUSAND PLAYERS WANTING TO PLAY THIS GAME, BUT IT IS UNPLAYABLE!
If you fixed the launcher and all the bugs introduced with BM about matchmaking and party system, then announce the BM release again you would get at least the double of players you have right now! Can't you see that THERE IS NO GAME LIKE NOSGOTH OUT THERE?

I hope that all the people who actually cared and loved the project would pressure SquareEnix and Psyonix to SELL THE GAME TO ANOTHER COMPANY or at least RELEASE THE CODE IN SOME WAY so someone could finish this amazing, original, and umatched piece of art by the gaming world.

I played this game for almost 1,000h and I need to find a replacement for this HUGE whole this is leaving me, I started using Steam because of this game, and I added 250 friends from Nosgoth, I really can't describe how much I am going to miss playing this incredible game, and make new strategies with the people I met here.

SQUARE ENIX, you should be ashamed, of letting this unique game die. As they commented up there it could get (almost) to be the next League of Legends in terms of size of playerbase, as you would have no rival in the field. You should be ashamed, because it seems like you forget about your history. Seems like you don't remember when your company (Square Enix) faced bankruptcy and did the effort to release one more last game (Final Fantasy I) before they had to shut down. That game sold more than 2 million copies worldwide and is now regarded as one of the most influential and succesful role-playing games in history.

I hoped you haven't lost the faith. And if you did, please let others carry on with this...

Varulven
8th Apr 2016, 16:55
I am too sad and disappointed to write anything, you guys let me without words... But basically what he said, THERE ARE THOUSAND PLAYERS WANTING TO PLAY THIS GAME, BUT IT IS UNPLAYABLE!
If you fixed the launcher and all the bugs introduced with BM about matchmaking and party system, then announce the BM release again you would get at least the double of players you have right now! Can't you see that THERE IS NO GAME LIKE NOSGOTH OUT THERE?

I hope that all the people who actually cared and loved the project would pressure SquareEnix and Psyonix to SELL THE GAME TO ANOTHER COMPANY or at least RELEASE THE CODE IN SOME WAY so someone could finish this amazing, original, and umatched piece of art by the gaming world.

I played this game for almost 1,000h and I need to find a replacement for this HUGE whole this is leaving me, I started using Steam because of this game, and I added 250 friends from Nosgoth, I really can't describe how much I am going to miss playing this incredible game, and make new strategies with the people I met here.

SQUARE ENIX, you should be ashamed, of letting this unique game die. As they commented up there it could get (almost) to be the next League of Legends in terms of size of playerbase, as you would have no rival in the field. You should be ashamed, because it seems like you forget about your history. Seems like you don't remember when your company (Square Enix) faced bankruptcy and did the effort to release one more last game (Final Fantasy I) before they had to shut down. That game sold more than 2 million copies worldwide and is now regarded as one of the most influential and succesful role-playing games in history.

I hoped you haven't lost the faith. And if you did, please let others carry on with this...

This!!! Guys, please do something! Don't let it die!!

gnome_dome
8th Apr 2016, 17:05
Wow... never have I been so let down by a game, but that is only because I was lifted so high. Regarding the stated reason for shutting down (not enough players), I will say this: Absolutely ridiculous! The players definitely are out there. It is no wonder they are not playing, because Square-Enix, you failed to market your product. What an elementary mistake.

I discovered Nosgoth by chance, just stumbling onto a free weekend notice on Steam in the summer of 2014. I may have ignored it if I had not played and loved Soul Reaver, thus recognizing the name. Immediately upon seeing the gameplay footage, I though "Oh my Elder God, this is so incredibly awesome!" I was instantly hooked. It is without a doubt my most-played multiplayer game ever, and I am not even one of your most dedicated. I wanted to share this game with whoever I could. I regret that I could not do so to any significant degree, as many of my friends are not gamers. But here's a problem I noticed the entire way: ever since day one, every single time I told someone about this game, they had NEVER HEARD OF IT. Think of all the players you would have had if only they knew! And how many more post-release, who for whatever reason don't participate in betas, but would have been excited to play the polished result!

I always hoped that when the game was ready to release, the marketing engine would fire up and tell the world. This game is conceptually (and actually) amazing. I can never go back to symmetrical shooters. Despite having only Team Deathmatch pretty much this whole time, it never got old for me. The tactical variety, the intense team play, the fun abilities, the excellent artwork, it all kept me coming back. And you know what? The bugs never bothered me for more than a second. All right so I died a few more times because of some glitch. I had faith that it would be fixed in time, and besides that I was having fun. More fun than any other online game I have ever played. Even recently I was willing to restart my game and launcher multiple times and wait forever in the lobby to get some more of this unique action which I cannot find anywhere else.

It is my greatest hope as a gamer that another publisher would invest into marketing this game to its huge potential audience and funding development of its final stages. Alas, I know this is but a futile wish. In my opinion, the bugs were never at fault. We who enjoyed this game the most always forgave them. Let me thank Psyonix for creating this still-rough yet uncanny gem, and providing the good times. A tear we shed for Nosgoth today.

Jallford
8th Apr 2016, 17:17
This is a real shame. The Legacy of Kain franchise deserves better than this and I hope it comes back from the dead someday.

This was a good product, an addictive, novel and most importantly fun game. I had a great time playing it, it stood out against other more generic arena shooters and team based games. I don't know why it didn't take off or get the users it needed but it was a good product and feels a bit like it was wasted.

Especially currently with the whole launcher debacle, making the game frankly unplayable.

JesyMynce
8th Apr 2016, 17:21
I still remember the first time I saw Nosgoth, the early alpha stages, I was so impressed seeing the characters coming to live. The first impression I got of the game were the vampire factions, more precisely 'Sentinels'. In my eyes it was an amazing experience seeing that a player will be able to feed on corpses and fly around above the enemy team.
The entire idea of Nosgoth, as the game it is, and it formed to be as a concept was unique itself. There are millions of games in the same genre, but Nosgoth was the only so disctinctive game of them all, in my eyes. None of the other games introduced everything Nosgoth did.
The entire idea of having, melee against ranged, the art, the concept following the Legacy of Kain and some iconic characters remastered.
Many games fail to keep players playing the game without getting bored, and the mistakes such games make is introducing millions of new features, thinking that they make ppl more hooked up to the game itself. Nosgoth proved that having only few features is more entertaining and fun than anything else.
World of Warcraft keeps feeding their game with tons of content, trying not to make it repeatable, but still left repeatable, while I consider Nosgoth more successful than Warcraft. I personally left Warcraft few years ago for Nosgoth, because Nosgoth gave all the joy of play I've always wanted to experience. The game itself might be repeatable, but that's the magic of playing online games, you might use the same abilities, but you face different people, with different playstyles, who play distinctively from one another and like this we challenge ourselves, our repeatable gameplay doesn't feel repeatable anymore.
The greatest achievements are these little things, probably almost nobody else ever thought about. For me the online competetive Nosgoth project was an enourmous success.

The only thing I fail to understand is why the best of the best, the most loved, always ends like this. The same happened with your fellow developers of The Witcher: Battle Arena, with many other amazing games, unique games. It sadness me to think that what ppl really like gets substracted with ease, while what repeats over and over again stays alive.

Nosgoth shouldn't be taken down. Whoever has taken this decision, because of lack of confidence, because of fails in the organisation, because of fear, or because of disappointment of the popularity of the project, lack of support or anything else, has taken a wrong decision.
I can say one thing for sure, and that is that publishers, developers, and teams in general working on games and taking decisions can only learn best from the experience of players - their own respective opinions.

I feel like part of me has been taken away. That's how much I overattached myself through these almost 3 years being a player of Nosgoth, and I am not the only one.

---JMYNCE TM

Roy644
8th Apr 2016, 17:29
The cancellation of Nosgoth really shows us that Square Enix considered this game a finished one. Why would they stop during the beta phase otherwise ? The game is supposed to be in a testing phase isn't it ? You don't expect to have a huge playerbase during testing, am I right ? Especially when you leave the game in a broken state for so many weeks... They wanted to make profit really quick, thinking the game would advertise itself.

You should have focus the effort on fixing the game, getting the real content out faster (i.e not the chests and skins) and get out of beta quickly while doing everything you can as a big publisher to advertise the game. But no, you thought this would be an easy cash grab, and that's why you killed the game.

Try it, you'll see. Re-focus the effort on what's important and try to use your notoriety to advertise the game and you'll see. The way Square Enix and Psyonix let Nosgoth die is ridiculous, both of the companies behaved like amateurs... Sorry if this is harsh, but don't expect congratulations after killing such a wonderful and amazing game. No one at Psyonix or Square Enix even realize what they had created. They are no other game like this one (there's Natural Selection but it's not as fun as Nosgoth tbh). Shame on you guys, stop blaming the lack of players and face your own failure.

Cradlis
8th Apr 2016, 17:35
I'm crying, litteraly. I've not been the most active guy on the forum but God knows I was playing a lot at this game. It was PURE fun and unique. I'm a LoK fan since the very first Blood Omen and when this game was announced, I cried like I'm doing right now. I was so happy to see a revival of the LoK universe I just talked about that to many of my friends who agrreed to join me in the warfare. It was an awesome sensation to retrieve old cities like Provance and Freeport and news ones like Valeholm and Sommerdamm. It was awesome to see for the very first time the Razielim and the other clans at their peek. The ambiance, the music, the sounds... It was like a dream revived ten years after Legacy of Kain : Defiance and I wanted to thank every single one of you guys to make this thing happenning.

But well, now here we are, another canceled game, another deception, another nail in the franchise's coffin. Nosgoth has never been officialy released, so what will happen to all the lore you guys created? Will it simply go to trash like Dark Prophecy and the too many other games? Are we really returning to square one on this? And speaking of square, I have something to say to SE. I was 100% in the game, but the fact that you SE published it gave me a wrong feeling about this. Guess I was right. I never played Tomb Raider, I never played Final Fantasy or any other game you had, except LoK and Nosgoth. Guess what, I will not begin today, not after the decision you made. I was forgiving every single mistake, every single bug because I was thinking that you guys were going to fix it all and make one of the betetr games ever released. I was like : I'll continue to play, I'm loyal to this franchise, I'm loyal to LoK, I'll support it every way I can. Well...

You guys remember some months ago the news about the interview of Michael Brinker stating that there's a 50/50 chance of a new LoK single-player game? It reminded me of Kain's coin. Well, I'll quote Raziel on this one : "The coin you tossed has struck the earth. Now you must abide by its outcome."

Thank you for all the joy, thank you for the dreams. Shame on you for not listening to us, shame on you for your actual decision. A part of me has been taken away and it's hurting like hell.

Sell the franchise, that's the only possibility left.

calypso-694
8th Apr 2016, 17:36
I truly am sad :( its my birthday so this is a terrile gift.

despite whay ogham said about releaseing any content I STIL THINK we should get the concept art for the rahabim IF it even got that far. even really rough sketches would be fine.

and despite everyone still complaining how its unplayable? I run this game on a garage LAPTOP at the lowest settings possible and it runs smooth as butter for me. ON A LAPTOP! the launcher worked fine for me. sorry if some of you had prolems ut clearly it must be your rigs. if I can run it (once again) on a garbage laptop, and it runs fine. then it isn't Psys fault.

the fact that SE forced AAA stuff on a non AAA game like leagues etc. was a big no no. sure 1 or 2 leagues wouldn't be bad but doing them back to back was the problem. WE ARE LEGION. LOK fans are strong! we play this game, we love this game, SE should have focused on US and worry about the other people later. hell we alone could keep this game running forever with our dedication alone.

a sad day indeed.

Cradlis
8th Apr 2016, 17:43
I truly am sad :( its my birthday so this is a terrile gift.

despite whay ogham said about releaseing any content I STIL THINK we should get the concept art for the rahabim IF it even got that far. even really rough sketches would be fine.

and despite everyone still complaining how its unplayable? I run this game on a garage LAPTOP at the lowest settings possible and it runs smooth as butter for me. ON A LAPTOP! the launcher worked fine for me. sorry if some of you had prolems ut clearly it must be your rigs. if I can run it (once again) on a garbage laptop, and it runs fine. then it isn't Psys fault.

the fact that SE forced AAA stuff on a non AAA game like leagues etc. was a big no no. sure 1 or 2 leagues wouldn't be bad but doing them back to back was the problem. WE ARE LEGION. LOK fans are strong! we play this game, we love this game, SE should have focused on US and worry about the other people later. hell we alone could keep this game running forever with our dedication alone.

a sad day indeed.

"As long as a single one of us stands, we are legion." - Kain

We will not forget, we are still hoping for a new game. SE can't find more loyal players in the world then those of LoK. It s a sad day indeed.

OMGfriedbacon
8th Apr 2016, 18:10
After like 3 weeks in this state, it's not a surprise, but I would be lying if I would say I'm not shocked and sad also. But this further proves the theory I had for a while and talked with other people about:

You the developers, intentionally ran this game into the mud. The reasons are mostly unknown to us, my guess is it was a mixture of being worn out with the game after over 2 years and being unable to get the necessary work done with the little man power and funds you had to work with slash got provided by SE.

So you intentionally crammed the game with countless of ridiculous bugs in literally every imaginable segment of the game to make it almost unplayable. And when the SE supervisor checked the numbers, he was like "that's not gonna cut it". Because obviously, higher traffic/purchases were expected after the biggest update nosgoth ever recieved went live.
I don't want to believe this was a planned, longterm decision. Thus my reasoning above.

I'm confident if you would've taken community feedback into consideration and focused on eliminating bugs which plagued the game for "ages", nosgoth would be in a solid state right now, like 2k/3k concurrent players online, potentially alot more if properly released.
Alot of mistakes were made along the way. One that still boggles my mind was when you started heavily marketing the game late 2014/early 2015 when the state of the game was nowhere near being ready to be played by a large audience. Or pumping out 10K dollars every month when at the same time you're short on actual developers.

Nevertheless, thank you for this amazing game. Its unique gameplay is fantastic, nothing comparable is out there.
And thank you also for this unique community, where pretty much everyone knows eachother. I made more steamfriends in nosgoth than from any other game. The love for this game welded together.
I'm frustrated thinking I'm supposed to play casualwatch in the future as replacement.

Btw.: Does anyone know some one who has 10 million bucks laying around to be able to buy the franchise and continue to properly develop the game? Or some one start a kickstarter to rescue Nosgoth, I don't know. We got to figure something out! :P

Sirfy1
8th Apr 2016, 18:40
I know I shouldn't be that surprised, but I was extremely shocked to hear about this. With the Beastmaster update only a couple weeks ago, there were strong implications of the game being moved out of beta soon, as well as discussions about the Rahabim. [Which I was immensely looking forward to seeing how the devs would make them look and work for the game.]

Of course I'm extremely sad about it, because I've been a gigantic LoK nerd for a long time and was very into this game as a result. It's been a pretty big part of my life [sucking up most of my free time] for 2 years and feels as if there's now an empty void. I normally don't like games like this, but this was such a great game and made some pretty rad friends in the process.

There really was a pretty good playerbase. A good number of people were taking a break till the Beastmaster update came out. When it did and they heard that half the players couldn't even get into the game or party with friends, they were waiting for it to be patched to come back. With the recent bugs, many players were waiting on that patch to be able to play period or were waiting to be able to play with friends.

The game was moving in the right direction, I feel. Till this BM update, I didn't really experience any major or game-breaking bugs like there were during closed beta or even early open beta. But the game was virtually unadvertised. I'm not sure if SE was hoping the referral program would advertise itself or what.
Add to it, that the bad decision to have real money as prizes for League. Giving out runes would of been a better choice and use that money to further develop and advertise the game properly.

On the other hand, I'm a little pissed about the rushed decision. [I'm assuming so, because the BM update strongly hinted at the game being moved out of beta soon and talk since then of future plans.] What about those of us who actually paid for the game by getting a Founder's Pack before it was f2p? We bought a game we're no longer going to be able to play? Not asking for a refund, but some sort of reimbursement in the SE store or something would be nice so the money used to buy the game that was taken away isn't wasted.


All that aside...I really hope something changes and this game can be brought back. Sell to someone who want to make this work.
I really enjoyed being able to play and wish it was going to be around more long-term. I had alot of great times and met some really awesome people.

[U]Ryan and Oghamsmith, thanks for all your hard work to try and keep the community updated the best you could. I know you were limited in what you were able to announce and help with, personally. I know you would of done more if it was within your power.
And thanks a ton for helping me out with my project. It's a shame it ended up being a waste of time. I was really looking forward to keeping up with it for years to come. But the time you took to help meant alot to me.

SvPaass
8th Apr 2016, 18:45
This is the end of an era :(

Nosgoth was the first pc game I really got into. The only game that got me to stick around and now you're taking it away from me.
I really hope its possible to revert this decision. It isnt too late if you would just get rid of the launcher and fix the matchmaking bug.

I want to be mad but i cant. I'm just sad, really sad.
I'll miss you guys.

Ncerersa
8th Apr 2016, 19:02
Such a Shame...R.I.P.

Another good game killed by strange decisions.

Feels like I lost a chance to see the future of the whole LoK series.

I'll miss this game.

GenFeelGood
8th Apr 2016, 19:09
I'm not gonna lie, I'm tearing up a little as I type this.

Many of you know me and I know many of you, I'm among the many that have been here since the early days of closed alpha. I can honestly say this is currently the longest relationship I've ever been in; and I'm broken up to hear it is ending. I don't regret any of the time I invested in the game or on the forum; and I don't even care about the money I spent on cosmetics to set myself apart in the game or on new computer hardware to improve my experience. What really kills me, just drives the knife deep into my back while twisting it good and hard so I really feel it is what could have been.

I was among the many LoK fans that first hated the idea of Nosgoth, thinking that it would never work; but you guys convinced me it could and made me believe in this, which just makes it feel all the more like a cruel joke.

We were on the verge of reaching the biggest milestone in this game's history with the introduction of the final vampire clan. Now I'm left wondering what if anything will live on. Will the lore around the factions, clans, and classes live on as established lore, I think it deserves to?

I'm not gonna nitpick over what could have made the difference, although how can you say it is ending because of low player population when advertising for this game has always been next to nonexistent?

I'll end by saying that I'm gonna miss this game. I'm gonna miss all the amazingly talented and skilled players I've met in the game and on the forum. As an LoK fan I can't help but fear that this might just be the final nail in the coffin for the series; but if it is I'm glad to have had a chance to have some say (however small) in what might just be the last bit of lore to be added. I hope to see you all again some day. When my fears are proven false and a new game emerges, with Nosgoth as it's multiplayer.

iquaniqua
8th Apr 2016, 19:15
Thanks for over a year of fun with a great game.

Well, this is the worst Friday of my life.

Endsequenz
8th Apr 2016, 19:17
Dudes nobody cares if it is developement, management, punishment or whatever.
Stupid decisions were made.
A really good game is going offline!
A game that took a lot of time from people who got addicted to it.
I am not here to harm a dev, a player or anything in person.
This is about anger!
Get of me with your whiteknight yeah I think its more that way ****.
Like nobody cares about steam friends, a good time or anything.
I am happy for all of us about that.
But the game is going offline!

So stfu I am uninstalling now.
Peace :mad2:

ZiggyPox
8th Apr 2016, 19:18
I just logged in for the first time on this forum to say how sad I am...

This sux so much, it is horrible. I didn't had much time to play lately, because of my work, but damn it was so nice to just jump in from time to time and even get your ass kicked. Losing is fun! (too much Dward Fortress for me?).

I had so much fun playing this game and it was one of few F2P games that make me thing "oh I enjoy it so much that I will just throw some money at them"!

Art assets of this game are just gorgeous, you can sometimes just sit there and look at the details of cities and landscapes that had their own history, you oculd feel it, smell it, taste it. Even clothes or at least first sets of them could tell whole stories of a character.

I didn't had a chance to try out beastmaster for real and yet it all goes bye bye... I think I will take this time to collect some fancy screenshots as references for some stuff, some nice fanart...

... too bad it will be all post mortem stuff, it seems ...

RainaAudron
8th Apr 2016, 19:25
I really hope that was not a rash decision, it does seem a bit sudden. The truth is there is not the same game like Nosgoth out there and you are letting a unique game die because of certain bad decisions... SE had so many plans in store but all was just dropped in a matter of days, weeks? I mean, the money for the leagues was a waste, yes, but surely the bugs could have been repaired, the bad patch rolled back, etc.? Or did Psyonix just give up on it in the end?

For me, it is a very personal matter (I´ve met many amazing people throughout and life changing events), is there nothing that can be done at all? :( Over 1100 hours played here.

stevo22x
8th Apr 2016, 19:40
This was not an easy decision to come to. It has been a pleasure to build this game with your help, but ultimately its audience hasn’t grown enough to sustain ongoing operations.

Yeah, sure, it's everyone else's fault we couldn't get people to overlook the game's many problems. :rolleyes:

I don't know who is ACTUALLY to blame for the death of Nosgoth but I know it wasn't the audience that never came. It was the bugs and instability that comes with Devs not fixing their product. I had so many friends interested in trying this and many new ones couldn't even play one minute because the game was broken. The others, who played with me since day one, were tired of launching the game and not being able to play it so they didn't want to bother trying anymore.


Someone really messed up, but to blame this on 'lack of audience' is audacious and dishonest. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Veraleth
8th Apr 2016, 20:01
I'm baffled, honestly. Even more so as a Warlord. Been here since day 1, watched a lot of people come and go, watched a lot of feedback and suggestions get tossed around, almost none of which Psyonix took advantage of.

RazielWarmonic
8th Apr 2016, 20:13
A lot of replies here are just downright disgusting, and it's making me borderline angry just reading them.

Alas, that isn't what I came here for, I came to reminiscence on the great times that Nosgoth DID give me.

It all started with a Pax East closed beta code my friend, "Slippers", managed to grab for me. I am (obviously) a very large Legacy of Kain fan, like many others, and that is what drew me in. After that, it was uphill for a while.

I got involved with the community, watching streams like DFA's and Petire's. I chatted to the devs, mainly Eric, Greg, and occasionally Corey. I got to know Cat, as well.

I started to stream on Twitch.tv (https://www.twitch.tv/razielwarmonic/v/49383999), which opened many horizons for me ultimately. I met awesome people like Furbz, DFA, Petire, Nikroaj, Bitey, rlinez, the hubris bunch (chump, ras, Talespin, coolmatt69, rowdy, etc), and I am sure I am forgetting a few (not including the devs mentioned above).

We had some silly (http://i.imgur.com/NUR3XUx.png) moments...
http://i.imgur.com/5Web0OL.png
http://i.imgur.com/hvGHfZt.png


I had the opportunity to work for ESL (http://play.eslgaming.com/nosgoth/global/), who I met many more cool people, made connections, and got experience working in the game industry (eSports). Got to see the inner workings of everything, and it was the coolest **** for a while.

This game ultimately opened my eyes in what I wanted to do as a career, and slowly guided me towards it, building the experience with passion I needed to get hired at Nexon as a community manager.

I played over 1200 hours of this game in a measly 8 months. I ******* loved it to death and back, but, I do not think this was unpredictable sadly.

But I have to thank everyone at Psyonix, and Square Enix, who made this game a reality. I (quite literally) would not be where I am now without it, living with who I do, and doing what I love as a job. So thank you, Nosgoth team. It was a great run. I still display my lithograph proudly, custom framed, on my walls. (http://i.imgur.com/WGMTh1H.jpg)

I can't say thank you enough, so thank you, again, and again, and again, for the opportunities you opened for me, the people I got to meet, and everything. Farewell, Nosgoth. At least it isn't farewell, Psyonix. :)

http://i.imgur.com/RpqSVRr.gif

Cheers and love,
Raziel Warmonic

ParadoxicalOmen
8th Apr 2016, 20:13
Damn...this makes me very sad.

I truly liked this game, and thought it had much potential. The issues this game faces were not IP related...
I like it so much i bought the founder's pack just to support Nosgoth...i never opened a single silver/gold chest, or used to all boosters...

This is such a shame...i wish there was a way for it to continue.

mindfactoryM
8th Apr 2016, 20:17
This. Allow players to create/host servers even after the end of the game. Get rid of the launcher before doing that, let people join through Steam, like the old times and everything should work fine. It's not much to ask I think. See, the playerbase still cares much than you about YOUR game :)

I TOTALY WANT TO KEEP PLAYING.Dont put it in the Bin.Please.....Its an Awesome Game.Make it playable for all of us that dont want to give up on it......

TronWinz
8th Apr 2016, 20:23
Shrekterino!
Rest in peperonies!


I TOTALY WANT TO KEEP PLAYING.Dont put it in the Bin.Please.....Its an Awesome Game.Make it playable for all of us that dont want to give up on it......
LOL U TROLL
U barely played this game, how many hours did you clock? 3?
and suddenly when the game closes you want to "KEEP PLAYING"?
lel.

Sluagh
8th Apr 2016, 20:35
Well that hurt a bit.

I have been here on the forum since Closed Alpha and in game since Alpha. I am all set on setting up a Nosgoth Comiseration Group if this announcement is true (if it's April Fool's it's a bit late).

A few things strike me about where things have gone wrong:

- Firstly all the terrible patch problems which drove people off - really ridiculous scoring, crashes, not logging in
- Too much focus in periods in trying to build in new classes/maps rather than tweak the core elements of older things (like some of the classes still have a really small move set)
- The Leagues have been fun but too accessible to weaker players and too easily dominated by stronger players. Call me a socialist but like things flattened down to give people a chance.
- The Lore. In fairness some of the lore ideas have been good. But existing lore has been never been given much narrative thrust beyond the initial lore posts. No videos. No lengthier posts for those attracted to that kind of thing.

Anyway, I hope maybe something comes out of this, like an offer to sell it on (although please not to any Tom, Dick or Sally), or maybe we should seize the means of production like it's the end of WW1 and run **** for ourselves. Well with some crowdsourced money and some willing geeks.

Out.

iquaniqua
8th Apr 2016, 20:56
What if like Paradox did with MWW you let us play the game and buy things indefinitely but just cease updating it, that way we could still play this one of a kind game

whoareyou64
8th Apr 2016, 21:04
I Love this game! if you are like me and want to at least try and change it we can try it together! this our deathmatch against SE for canceling and never taking care of their servers!

join this change.org link lets do this!
thank you!

https://www.change.org/p/squareenix-don-t-shut-the-nosgoth-servers-down-on-may-31st?recruiter=524140709&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-no_msg&fb_ref=Default

Predyz
8th Apr 2016, 21:14
Could be a bug? A cheat? I don't know... something did not work as intended in the game mechanic, devs are not going any good about it, and this game is evidently losing his players day by day.

It was June 2015 since i wrote this sentence in the ANTICHEAT thread.
Now i just want to listen to all of the players arguing about "no! there are no cheats here! only skilled ethernal players!"
Strange that in other games, there are skilled players and a huge amount of people trying to reach them... in Nosgoth we only had a few dozen of incredible, unreachable players and a thousands of poor losers.

And that's it: we are closing! Thank you for flying with us! Hope to have you aboard next time.

No, i won't be aboard next time... sorry.
You ruined an excellent game abandoning it in the hands of exploiters, cheaters, bugs and endless issues. And for what i can imagine, Rocket League will be the next victim.

Just keep my refund, buy an ice cream. You'll need it.

Tetszu
8th Apr 2016, 21:25
i had fun for free so i don´t have a reason to complain
the example of the cow they don´t have to feed is pretty fitting although they fed it but just with the wrong food :>

iquaniqua
8th Apr 2016, 21:27
I Love this game! if you are like me and want to at least try and change it we can try it together! this our deathmatch against SE for canceling and never taking care of their servers!

join this change.org link lets do this!
thank you!

https://www.change.org/p/squareenix-don-t-shut-the-nosgoth-servers-down-on-may-31st?recruiter=524140709&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-no_msg&fb_ref=Default

While i'm normally of the mindset that online petitions are useless, this actually might help, since it will show there are people interested in the game to disprove the lack of interest and audience that is being used as the reason for cancellation. But i do think more than 100 people will be needed to show to the devs that there is interest. I also think you need to Compose a better letter with no information instead of just one sentence if it's gonna be sent to square

mindfactoryM
8th Apr 2016, 21:28
Shrekterino!
Rest in peperonies!


LOL U TROLL
U barely played this game, how many hours did you clock? 3?
and suddenly when the game closes you want to "KEEP PLAYING"?
lel.

Thanks for your kind words.I only played the Game for 750 houres...i started late...Am I still allowed to `wanting to Play?

pidden
8th Apr 2016, 21:30
So sad, its my favorite game ever so its tragic news.
I want to play but i cant as the game freeze when in lobby and the game is just about to start it all get stuck.
Please sell so someone can continue the development.

FoboRising
8th Apr 2016, 21:34
@Nosgoth/SquareEnix Devs: So, I'm just as 'upset' as the next guy..but emotions aside, please consider releasing some type of server-side/client versions of the game so that some of us can continue playing this on private servers, without the need for Square Enix/Steam authentication. Not having future enhancements is unfortunate, but I've been here since the beginning and there remain some classes that I've never level'd up and plenty of other things to have fun with.

MasterShuriko
8th Apr 2016, 22:08
Cant believe this! this struck me like Lightning from clear skyes today in Kenndriks stream!

This game was FUN! atleast if you fix all the bugs that have been introduced since november!
Dont blame this on the players! You will get more players if you fix your game and establish a better reputation as responsible developers!

Oghamsmith
8th Apr 2016, 22:37
Hi again everyone,

While disappointment, anger and frustration are completely natural responses; I'm going to ask that everyone refrains from slinging anger and abuse toward each other. While I certainly am not encouraging it, I can understand anger and frustration being directed toward myself and the companies involved in making the game. I will not accept anger and abuse being slung at other players however. Please try to remain civil.

With that out of the way, I'm seeing a few more points coming up that need to be addressed.

Is this a late April fools gag?
Sadly not. Everything we have published today is absolutely sincere.

Is there any way to change the decision?
No. This decision was not taken lightly. It will not change.

What about crowdfunding?
We are not looking to pursue any crowdfunding campaigns in relation to Nosgoth.

What will happen to Nosgoth Steam achievements? Will we make them easier to get?
We’re currently seeking further clarification on precisely how this will work. Your Nosgoth Steam achievements will most likely remain on your profile. We don't intend to make any changes to how they are earned.

Will you release concept art for the Rahabim class?
This is unlikely as the visuals for the class are unfinished.

How will Nosgoth’s lore be handled in relation to the larger Legacy of Kain timeline?
It’s quite early to make a definitive statement on this. That decision will need to come at a later date.

Again folks, please try to be courteous to each other. Even considering the circumstances, there's no need for anyone to lash out at fellow Nosgoth players and fans.

wrace0
8th Apr 2016, 22:41
RIP LOK again. "Once and for all".

I love SE very much - in comparison with CD which milked their Lara Croft - it is enough to see what they did with their own franchise Final Fantasy VIII (the game from 1999) when they placed it on Steam, and what did (did not) CD with the existing old LOK-franchise in the same place and how CD contacted with their community all these years.

Even Bllizzard now raises their own epical franchises like D2 and even Rock'n'Rall Racing + The Lost Vikings + fans can create mod for StarCraft I & BroodWar (on the engine of SC2) because creators even added old units from SC1 into SC2.

And only CD consigned to oblivion (again and again) the one more epical franchise - LOK.

ety320
8th Apr 2016, 23:15
The only ones to blame are the devs.

People like me wanted to play your game, but couldnt!
I swear i tried many times to lay this game, but it worked about 2 weeks.
I was playing even if it kept crashing because of my bad computer.

I finally switched from 32bits (game wasnt compatible) to 64 bits and now I read that the game is shutting down...?
Why is the game shuttign down? Have you (devs) ever really wondered or are you just too lazy to fix a game that appears perfet on surface?

About a year and a half ago I tried the game and really liked it, it reminded me when I used to play WolfTeam...good old days...
I played for about 2 weeks then I had to stop simply because my computer wasn't strong enough, then I came back and tried to play, but then the matchmaking was soooooooo bugged that I could never play again or almost.

I had games where we were 5 vs 3 instead of 4 vs 4.
I queued up for matches where people couldn't even join, they were getting kicked out as loading would start or such things.

This game was very promising, I wish you would come back on your decision and just decide to fix this game, otherwise you I'll just ...start playing another game and keep you as the most incompetent game devs in my heart forever :)

Sluagh
8th Apr 2016, 23:17
Hi again everyone,


Is there any way to change the decision?
No. This decision was not taken lightly. It will not change.

What about crowdfunding?
We are not looking to pursue any crowdfunding campaigns in relation to Nosgoth.

Will you release concept art for the Rahabim class?
This is unlikely as the visuals for the class are unfinished.

How will Nosgoth’s lore be handled in relation to the larger Legacy of Kain timeline?
It’s quite early to make a definitive statement on this. That decision will need to come at a later day.




Thanks Ogham for the response,

Surely the lore timeline is not that affected - as it's essentially a lost timeline due to paradoxes etc. However this is not me saying "nevermind, forget that old hat." Surely though if another developer was interested they would want access to the whole franchise rather than anything partial.

There is a lot of talk about keeping the servers open as private lobbies, which seeing all the fan effort and dedication that LOK of fans and newer fledglings have put in over the last few years, it's the least Square Enix could offer.

stevo22x
8th Apr 2016, 23:23
While I certainly am not encouraging it, I can understand anger and frustration being directed toward myself and the companies involved in making the game.

How about you retract your statement about the game's failure being due to lack of a larger audience? Because even if it reached a larger audience, the litany of bugs and bad patches plaguing Nosgoth would have made them dismiss the game anyway. I tried to get many people into the game after enjoying solid and unique gameplay, and all they got to experience was a broken mess. We made efforts to populate the player base because we loved this game and wanted to see it thrive. Lack of audience isn't the reason this failed.

To be clear, I'm not asking you to blame the devs who couldn't or wouldn't fix the game. But the notion that a broken game would have thrived with more people being unable to play it is ridiculous.

Hugbringer
8th Apr 2016, 23:33
Even though my enthusiasm waned after a couple of hundred hours (TeeHee), I was glad to have had the chance to help get this game started. I still brag about it to my friends from time to time being involved in Closed Alpha when I first started playing in Novemember 2013.

Thanks guys, all you beautiful Psyonix peeps for doing the best you could with a difficult license and it's messy history. LOK fans aren't hard to appease and I still think you did pretty good given the situation you were presented. Might not have had the success that Rocket League is having, but I enjoyed it and wish everyone on their various teams continued success.

Let us hope that Kain's Legacy doesn't end here...

Fudsine
8th Apr 2016, 23:41
Woah amateur developers blame player base for their broken game? Quelle surprise. Maybe you should update your original post to reflect the fact that you incapable of providing a service competently and reliably as the reason for your "lack of players".

An absolute disgrace to the industry, everyone involved in this 'decision' and moreover the game itself should be ashamed.

Vampmaster
8th Apr 2016, 23:49
Will you release concept art for the Rahabim class?
This is unlikely as the visuals for the class are unfinished.

:( What difference does it make whether they're finished at this point? If SE aren't going to to be using them for anything and fan art won't cost them any expense, then there's no real harm in letting us have a look.

Necro71
8th Apr 2016, 23:53
What will happen to Nosgoth Steam achievements? Will we make them easier to get?
We’re currently seeking further clarification on precisely how this will work. Your Nosgoth Steam achievements will most likely remain on your profile. We don't intend to make any changes to how they are earned.

Seriosly? Do you even know how hard are some of Nosgoth Achievements to do while playing against random enemies?
Atleast make it possible to do achievements on PRivate Matches, Since you shutting down game it will be impossible to finish them in future, so:
1. delete all Achievements
Or
2. Make it easier to get (Private matches, lowering requirements).

harmless-violet
8th Apr 2016, 23:54
How disappointing. I bought all my skins back in the day and I'm not eligible for a refund.

I picked up a veteran and warlord pack early on, because I thought I'd support a game I liked. I'm glad I did, if it helped the devs keep working.

Unfortunately the constant bugs kept purging the player base, and the crap chest lottery stopped me buying chests. ($5 for an arcane? Who are you kidding?)

I'll miss it; I liked killing vampires with science, I liked the diversity of skin tones, I liked the touches on the map, and in general I thought was a lot of fun.

GamerMuffins
8th Apr 2016, 23:58
This feel's rather unacceptable, Especially after wasting all my time expressing idea's, To Noted & Implemented Suggestion's, Posted on version two, Of the forum. Post #112. For the last two week's. And then on top of that sorting all the rough draft's of my text for free. Those suggestion's are gold. I tell you, If not platinum!
Just being humbly hilarious about the pay factor, I don't want money for my ideal's. I do how ever want them to be acknowledged It would only add insult to injury. To put the game on the shelf to never be played. Sure in the future you could pick it up. But not as the game it is now it would have to be recreated. Although we know that's not going to happen either, The way society works with business patent's, Ideals go obsolete because of patent's. Before the idea can be updated, Or improved in a relevant time.
Of course people should still get credit for there idea's! I'm Not voting for a system of chaos here!
Just trying to appeal to the Communion Aspect of society. But I know better then to hope, As money is the drive of society right now rather then Art, Intellect, And prosperity. You know the thing's belief usually preaches about, That also try's to get every one else to preach, An at the same time trying to make people realize sin is a nature we are suppose to overcome, Rather then be enveloped by. In other word's, As a serious joke. I say shove the sloth, You darn sinner's!

This game's potential is far greater then what the player base has expressed so far.
Most of the people I've seen complain, are ranting about players like my self being to good, Also making the mistake of thinking I'm a cheater using Aim Bot or what ever hack i can buy, With the money I don't have. Then they of course quit before giving the game a full chance.
And then there the opposite of that, Which i take part in a bit of, Not proudly. But every now and then. Although I don't feel good about it, I often find my self. Ranting at newbie's, Basically telling them. Get better faster, In more Colorful word's though. Which of course... End's badly. But you know how anger goes. So in this case people leave, Due to the toxic environment produced by trolling, and thing's of the alike.
So... I ask you, Was it really the best decision, To hand out only a limited number of beta ticket's at a time. In a world where the community is still socially developing. Short answer. I think not! Mainly because you need a constant stream of player's. To be coming in, So you're community may actually grow, Or stabilize. Since there are obviously going to be many that leave the community for what ever reason.
So instead of just opening you're doors to the community, When you feel it's necessary. Perhaps you could give Nosgoths community one last chance. By reopening your door's, And leaving them open, An actually making a proper cancellation date for the game, In the mean time. Continuing to cancel it, If you still think it's going to fail the expectation of your demand.
But cancel it while keeping the community up to date.
This community deserves one last chance, To jump back.
Rather then continuing about it in the current manner that your pocket's find more convenient. The reason I say this is because I feel disrespected. And although your time is money. Mine is not. For my time, Is my value. In simpler words, You've wasted much of my time. There for, You have no respect for me, As a player of this game. Or any game of Square Enix, or psyonixs making, That I may chose to play.
Because you lack the recognition. Of the time I put into this game, By suddenly announcing shutdown of all Nosgoth development, With out filling in the community before hand. like I feel rather disposable after that. And let's just say I'll not be touching a multiplayer for a few decades, At this point.

What i mean to make most apparent though. Is the fact that Nosgoth had very little advertisement going out. In my opinion.
So in the end when your player base, Is about player's that can't adapt fast enough. To the current community, That's already been playing the game for a significant time more. Then the game becomes an unattractive failure. Due to the fact that you couldn't keep a constant stream of player's going, making this the inevitable outcome for Nosgoth. Since the newbie's of the community will likely be scared off by assumption, And more.
Often pointing the finger, Saying these guy's are using aim bot, Or some cheat. Just for example... But that assumption, And other like it. Scare's away more then new recruit's. Leaving a hug gap in the community's skill. Now that many new recruit's are not staying, To get better. And others leaving because the community isn't developing fast enough, If at all.

What I would like to suggestion, I suggest remove class restriction's on what ever classes that require it. Since player's can only play, A single class at a time. Why should it matter what class they begin with? This should bring in more player's, The less restriction's, Game's have. The more intriguing they are.
But the problem here is that failure happens within 2-5 years, For all multiplayer's, That become finished, Or begin to stagnate. And trust me. I've played games through the entirety of my life, I've also tested ample multiplayer style's, Many with the same concepts as Nosgoth. For near the same time, If not longer. I usually stick with a multiplayer. If I like it enough, Until the game goes dead, Or get's boring.
So when said failure time for all multiplayer's is 2-5 year's, It doesn't matter if the game is in beta or not, While not attracting enough players, Even though Nosgoth had more then a sufficient player base, Until the recent news about shutdown. When you don't update the content enough to subside the current player's boredom. While not fixing bug's that are driving away new player's, And old player's alike. We who are playing, Tend to get bored fast. Without new competition/challenge's
And for the noob's we cant learn fast enough when we join game's late after their release date, Due to the already large amount of active expert players smashing on the tiny community of newbies left, Or potentially new player's. But that's how it suppose to go.
Their suppose to catch up to the experienced player's, Not the other way around. But i do admit, It's to much suffering. To join a game that already has a lot of active experts, And above skilled player's. In play, While at the same time. Not having enough of you're own player level base. To level with. So you can at least begin, Studying the game mechanics.

So the player base remain's stagnate, due to the unattractive amount of new player's. That the newbies desire, So they can learn without getting taken advantage of so often, By the expert an above player base. Leaving them to learn at there own pace. without getting aggravated into quitting as much, Or entirely all together.
An it shouldn't matter if a few expert player's are in a lobby of new player's. Since it will only encourage them to get better. An it's especially unfair to separate player's by skill, For example. If I log on to play, I want to get the fastest match possible. So i can learn fast as possible. Also most experienced player's don't play as often as newbie's will. Since there just starting out. But that wont happen while there's this system judging me as to good to play with this group of newbies.
Another example would be, When the community become's stagnate. While there is a judging system being implemented.
It can suddenly become's unfair, Or hindering. To the newbie's, If not the whole community. Since they now take the fall. Because of the fact, That they will have to wait longer. To be placed in their bracket.

Also Instead of getting handicapped along.
I mean who's idea was it to bring handicap's to a competition, It's called a challenge for a reason. The reason being, Each side is equally matched. Which is what should happen when there's a large enough community.
What I'm saying now. Is if there's going to be a judgment system. Then by all mean don't make it the primary function of the match making Qeeue system. Make it a secondary function, For example. Make its function dependent on the game's populous.
Say if you're searching for a game. Then the queeue should instantly be looking for the fastest match possible, If there isn't a large populous of there level or experience at the time. And if there is a sufficient player base of there experience, all queeuing at the same time. Then the secondary function of the match making queeue system should activate. Becoming the primary function, Which would instead be searching for quality player's. Rather then quick match qeeue's.

As a side note, Every one move's on, And goes with the flow in gaming. The flow of life that is. Which is all way's fleeting. Like time, It self.
So the moment a game begins to decay, Or become's more stress then fun. We usually move on bringing are friend's with us.
In my opinion, The game didn't need a balancing system. Many game's have tried implementing the same formula, An none have succeeded, With it. Along side the fact that much time was wasted In implementing this balancing system for match making. I waited for 4-5 months before seeing new ability's for the most incomplete classes, The vanguard and summoner. Although I admit I too wanted a balancing system at one point. But now i feel it's more work then not. Don't get me wrong I still want one. But perhaps it should have been one of the last priority's. To receive attention from the development team.

Here are my thought's as to why balancing systems, Using number's to regulate player skills. May never succeed.
Reason one, A player's skill can't be determined for a set time. Numbers will never truly show the player's value. Because we are constantly learning. The numbers we grade by will simply never catch up. There fore, We cannot label are skills in the manner of digit's. You see it will never serve as a proper balancing system for match making qeeue's. Especially when you're numbers can go down. That is most illogical, Are skills do not degrade, While we keep in practice. And continue learning. Sure we may get rusty and need a few practice round's after a long break from a game. But we still retain the skill we had before.

Reason two, If players are never challenged to get better how will the game ever be fully played/exploited, By the players intellect and skill, Which is the purpose of all game's, Alongside the purpose of fun.
But when you ignore major bug fixes, That needed to be attended to. The game tends to loss it's aspect of fun. There's nothing more crippling to a game then Glitches, And bugs. As these destroy competitive play. Just as much as cheater's abusing overpowered content, And childish hacker's that abuse there ability's to physically troll, An expose the negative aspect's of games.

Any way's I forgot to explain the point of bringing up every video games multiplayer death date.
Right now nosgoth is dead, It's simply true. Especially after posting the recent new's on the game page in bold red. So early with out even keeping the community updated in advance, Like this is the biggest surprise I've ever had playing a game, And boy does it take the cake. Of all other surprises I will ever have in my future gaming history. I doubt I'll ever pick up another beta, Due to this new fact I've learned about them. Why not keep the community updated before hand. Rather then leaving them in the dust. About the decision to do a 180 degree turn in the opposite direction.
This is great significance to the community, That put their soul into this game. Even though we're still told nothing in advance about major decision like that.
In other word's you kind of owe it to your community. To keep this game going. Until you can set up a proper cancellation, By keeping the community updated with these possible decision, At a more reasonable notice date, Say 5 month's notice before hand. Instead of proceeding with this rather sudden and crud, One month notice surprise you decided to cripple the community with.
Which in my part. I feel was done to diverge this community toward other game's. But that last sentence about diverging the community is just conjecture. How ever it feel's like such a shady action that i can't help but to speculate the conspiracy as truer then not!

Now it's time to establish why you should continue this game.
One the community feedback is great. In expressing the need for bug fixes, Ideas for balancing the game, And general suggestions, ext. I recently started making suggestion's myself, That I put much time into, And plan on putting more time into.
Two, The game might seem to be at an end right now. But it has just barley begun. it's been about 1-2 year's since the content has really changed. In bug fixes, And new content. Making the progress look very slow. This is probably why many where detoured from Nosgoth, Especially due to the lack of bug fixes,
An also the greatest failure of Nosgoth. In my opinion. Was making it necessary for people to acquire a key code to play a free beta. Again it's not the key code, Thats the problem. All games require it, But... The fact that you only handed out key codes. During Nosgoths advertisement announcement's. Which where trying to advertise the need for more player's. Was awkward, Why only hand out a limited number?
There is no good answer for that question. No legitimate one's, That I can think of anyways. Like this is the worst form of advertisement I have ever seen for a beta, That need's a larger community.
An on top of that, The best that was done after the first three advertisement's, Yes there where only 3 total steam advertisement's. That I saw. For how long this beta has been going on. That is a sad attempt of trying to get noticed. It's as if you expected people to just roll in. Because they see there are only 10000 beta keys being given away. But really that's just intimidating. The reason it can be intimidating. Is because, From my memory. Although I never paid attention to every detail of it. I never once saw that you could recruit friend's in the Steam advertisements, So i was kinda sketchy about whether or no I wanted to play a game that my friend's couldn't join, Unless they had gotten one of the beta passes. Even though I learned later you could recruit a friend, None of my friend's wanted to join.

But despite that, This alone should show you, How long content lasts. That's around 1-2 year of fun, Off of unfinished beta content alone. It could be 2-3 years if the game is ever given a real chance to become popular. And of course that's just speculation, About when the popularity begin's to die. As in, Usually. A popular game lasts 2-3 year's till that game's community start's to die. But the game will obviously last longer, say 4-5 before it starts getting to old. To play. Then the rest of the community fall's, Like most game's do.
Three i have just finished the Beastmaster class. Fully leveling it, And gaining all the achievements. An I do have to say its a perfect class. In every way this class belongs in the game, But of course there are still a few suggestion's for it, that i would like to be acknowledged. And other's, That I hope don't go to waste, Or that i would like to add my idea's to. But this final decision to end Nosgoth seem's benign. Without concern for the player's interest, Or hard work contributed into this game, A thank's is hardly sufficient. With a sudden notice to just quit every thing, This is not what the human society stand's for, Despair, anguish, And futility. Or at least i hope its not. Also the lack of acknowledgment, Of the fact that bug reports where needed for the game. That many player's where kind enough to put there time into, Just to make this game successful. This is something the development team should have a team put together to do.

Also for your own sake, You should as of immediately stop shoveling out money to people playing a beta for competitive money. To do this I suggest you change the money earned to rune stones, Like many others have already suggested. (Only if you're going to proceed with Nosgoth's creation). Money doesn't make competition or a challenge, the interest of expressing experience does. And the interest to learning more, While getting even better in the experience's already attained, And not your sinful nature to attain greed. There is a time to gamble, And a time to observe.
I feel the whole Nosgoths team took one to many gambles working on irrelevant content, such as boasting, working on one to many skin selection's at a time, Along with prize reward/reward systems, Receiving more attention. Then the need for bug fixes. And other thing's, Like patching disasters that brought many more unresolved, And staking bug issues. Isn't there a better way to apply a system patch, Rather then by forcing the community to deal with all the unforeseen kink's, And wait for their report's. That are obviously going send lots of hate mail, Pointing each problem out.

Here's my suggestion to make it fair for all player's, There should be a rating system. But it should be a rating system of title's not numbers. Titles ranging your experience, Example ranging from beginner to expert and above. Noob, Novice, Apprentice, Acolyte, Expert, Master, Legend. Seven should be more then plenty, And this is not to separate any one.
This is to build a base line of fair, My concept is to basically not let the title's label people, Instead it's just to define their skill.
What this title's should do, Anytime. Two players get together with the same title, Their placed on opposing team's to balance the match/lobby. Unless On a team. An of course if there is an opposing team with the same or near the same rating. They will be placed on the other team. To balanced out the situation. Obviously there is much more it should do. That I hope you can assume with the already given suggestive info. Although i have no problem explaining! If I need to.

It's beyond sad that art stops with the flow of money, Weather the money be flowing not enough, Or too much. Its no wonder we're all trying to build, Or submerge are self's in an illusion that society doesn't suck the way it works now. Since none of use can express the very art, Are soul desires to, In these current life style's/time's. And even if we did we would probably only live a sin full life style. With that kind of money. As to why art also stop's with to much money.
So i ask you Psyonix, Square Enix beat the tyranny of sin!
And don't let the game end. Just because it may not make you enough money at the time. If it's not forcing you to loss money then proceed with this grand multiplayer. Please!
I know these are just the word's of a fan. But i believe the game can be made stable, To bring back it's community. And many more.
I beg you, Please continue your work.
I have many more idea's to express, An improve. For Nosgoth.

Insert_in_Ear
9th Apr 2016, 02:01
Put nosgoth on steam as early access/preorder. Convert the game to be playable with privately hosted servers. Let us buy the game so it doesn't disappear. Square Enix I will give you money for a product that is mostly complete, just make it playable with privately hosted servers. THE PLAYERS OF NOSGOTH WILL GIVE YOU MORE MONEY TO KEEP THEIR GAME PLAYABLE.

Mobiyus1
9th Apr 2016, 03:41
Nosgoth was designed and built to run with a live operations team present to support the game. The live service is intertwined fairly heavily throughout. The act of bringing a server online, allowing a player to login and connect, and ensuring that their profile and unlocks can be pulled in order to give them their items is at the core of Nosgoth, and requires the online service to run.

This right here tells me about the intentions while coding the game; reach LoK fan's wallets as they haven't been milked in a while. Corporate Commander strikes again. The only reason i was ever interested in this game is LoK. So glad i didn't put any money in it and so sorry for those who did...

On their defense, they are not alone to do this and we, players, users and gamers, are again penalized... How saddening the game industry is becoming :(

Dark_Paganini
9th Apr 2016, 03:49
Ok, i might not be an active forum user but definitively i am an active nosgoth player, i have been playing it every single day for months now, and i'm sad to see it dying. I agree with many of the things that have been posted on this thread. There are many ways to make it playable for all of us who want to support and keep playing this amazing game. There are other options rather than to just stop and close everything. Private servers, becoming pay to play, ultimately selling the franchise to anyone that is willing to continue the development. i would buy this game because i like it so much and it has given me tons of fun. i don't mind if there are no more updates in the future, just let us play it please. I will support the game in anyway i can. This is the only "multiplayer free to play" game that has captured my attention so far, it's very unique! please do something!... anything... please...

Raptr0s
9th Apr 2016, 04:14
I bet Square got impatient and told them to dump it.

Don't tell me you can't sustain yourself, All Points Bulletin: Reloaded has lasted twice your guys span, and it got dropped by Realtime worlds, then picked up by some bo-dunk developer and publisher Reloaded Productions and Gamer'sFirst

They're arguably the greediest ****s on the net and their game has lasted almost 6 years... It's still in an old unreal engine from forever ago

Nosgoth is in GREAT condition. Sure there are bugs and balance issues, but the art, the sound design, animations, voice work, it's all great and working just fine.

It'd be a SHAME to dumo this game, especially with its asymmetrical challenging gameplay, which is rare and much needed these days.

Psyonix, or even Square Enix, I implore you, this game is in fantastic condition, please consider selling the liscense to another developer who is willing to take on the development challenge that is NOSGOTH!

Thank you...

Rago600
9th Apr 2016, 04:23
Well after all this Years with the Game, i also think its sad i will return to Unreal tounament wich is also new and a free Game nowadays :)

Its sad that you dont give us at least anything like Dedicated servers or stuff to mod, its the unreal engine after all.
That we the Core Players of this Game can at least play it.

Check out unreal on their website.

I wont buy Any square enix Game in the Future, have a good Day.

We built all our Tomorrows !

Finaeous
9th Apr 2016, 05:27
I don't think I can even describe how disgusted and disappointed I feel right now.

I've been a huge Legacy of Kain fan for the majority of my life. I remember playing the original Blood Omen and Soul Reaver when I was a kid, and then later SR2,BO2, and Defiance.

You know what's funny? I had no idea this game even existed until four months ago. One day I was looking up Soul Reaver music on YouTube and one of the recommended videos was of some Nosgoth gameplay. I was blown away. The game looked awesome and I was astounded by the fact that I'd never even heard of it.

You guys are cancelling development and citing the small playerbase as the reason? You never did anything to grow the playerbase! Of course it was small! You didn't promote or advertise the game! People had to just randomly stumble across it one day like I did. There's probably a ridiculous amount of people out there that would fall in love with this game, but they have no idea it even exists.

And then people can't even play the game because it won't even successfully launch half the time. When it does launch you can't get into games because of the party server error (which is what I've been getting all night . . . hence why I'm not playing it right now.)

That's why Nosgoth died. Saying the playerbase was too small oversimplifies things. The playerbase was small due to lack of advertising and promotion and players straight up not being able to even play the game.

This game is excellent. I freaking love it. It looks great. It sounds great. The voices are great. The gameplay is unique and endlessly engrossing. I will play the bejeezus out of it for the next two months (assuming I can get past the launcher and party server errors anyway). After that I will steer clear of any games with Psyonix's or Square-Enix's names on them. Here's hoping SE sells the LoK IP to a publisher/developer that actually wants to do something with it.

KaininitePriestess
9th Apr 2016, 07:49
I am so, so so so furious about this right now. I'm going to try and be as polite as I can right now, but...I just...am absolutely livid beyond words. At least beyond congenial words.

Thanks, Square, for refusing to put the funding and assistance into advertising and developing this game and for refusing to listen to your playerbase. I don't fault Psyonix. Their hands were tied in things, they were at Square's command on how to run things, and the fact that the reason for cancelling the game is the game not spreading enough just...

I'm sorry. I just...

I CANNOT...

I am so **** FURIOUS! Square put ABSOLUTELY NO MONEY into advertising this game! NONE. The only time I ever saw it advertised was when they did the Closed>Open Beta transition, and then after that there was ABSOLUTELY NADA put in the way of advertisement! OF COURSE THE GAME WASN'T GOING TO SPREAD IF YOU DIDN'T ADVERTISE IT. I'M NOT EVEN IN BUSINESS AND I KNOW THIS

I put thousands of hours into this game. It's currently one of only three games that I play on a regular basis: Skyrim, Undertale, and Nosgoth. I came for the Legacy of Kain and stayed because this was a phenomenal game! I was proud of how good I was at this game, too! I'm not the greatest, no, but I was able to play it well, and I loved playing it! Almost all of my classes were the max level!

And honestly? I kind of knew this was going to happen someday, and it was one of the things I absolutely hated about the way the game was set up. Because once you take the servers down, then we're just SOL. I'm just hoping someone makes mods some day that allows this game to be played on "illegal" private servers so that I don't have to never play it again.

Right now, I just want to scream and cry and rant and rave and throw things against the wall and I DON'T GET THIS FURIOUS VERY OFTEN, OK.

This is why I was worried when I heard Square had purchased Eidos and CD and had the rights to Legacy of Kain. I honestly don't know why I expected any better. I'd at least hoped that this game would help show that we wanted a new single-player game in the franchise, but I'm sure most LoK fans didn't even know this was a thing because IT WAS NEVER ADVERTISED. Yeah, some fans didn't want to play it because it strayed from the old formula, but I'm sure a great many were completely unaware, as well, and just...

AUUUGH, I JUST CANNOT RIGHT NOW! :mad::mad2::mad::mad2::mad::mad2:

Now I just want to go lay down and cry for a day or so. I'm...just...I'm so done right now...

Endsequenz
9th Apr 2016, 08:17
Good morning.
I am not trying to throw anger at you Oghamsmith, I think you did pretty well.
I also am not trying to throw anger at ppl that are friends with one of the few ppl I really liked in this game.

It´s just the first time I really got salty about this game... and I am sorry, I just want to be mad then.
A game like this should not die after 2 years... I don´t care who´s fault it is, I will never see these ppl.
And I honestly think that this game could have grown more, if more would have been done to do so.
It´s just a waste of a really good game and I cannot believe that.

I am fine with appreciating a good time aswell, maybe just not in the first moment, but it´s a free land.

And when I just hear the word friends, it takes me to a point where I saw an issue all the time, but there is no sence in thinking about it anyways.

I will open this stupid forum every weekend, at least.
You better have some good news for me here soon, otherwise I dunno what will happen after the end of may.
I would consider just deleting my square enix account with the moment this game goes down.

Edit: and I will miss this qt posting above me ;)

Roy644
9th Apr 2016, 08:36
Look at all the reactions of the fans guys. There's A LOT of people who care about the game. And as someone said in this thread, you NEVER tried to get a bigger playerbase. For us dedicated players, it feels like you give up at the first bump on the road. And actually, from our perspective, it's not even a bump! Sure playerbase was never huge, but before blaming this on the players themselves, try something! If you just take the time to address the bugs everyone was reporting lately, advertise your game properly, and change your monetization system to something more customer friendly, you'll see an improvement, no doubt about it !

There is no sensible reason to not try at all. If real lovers of video games where in this decision making process, the game would never have been canceled because a real video game lover would see more in such a great game than just MONEY... You have to reconsider this. You're killing the game before trying to keep it alive, that's stupid ...

Oh and I was dying to ask this : why the rushed decision ? Because yes, I doubt this was planned in the long term, otherwise, this would never have been said (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-03-11-nosgoth-launches-soon-after-over-a-year-in-early-access) ... Less than 1 month earlier, you're talking about releasing it for real. And suddenly "we can't do this anymore, not enough players, bye bye!". Something is clearly really wrong with this decision. And moreover, in the mini state of play from the beginning of April, you clearly stated you'll talk in more details about what's to come during the month of April. This was some days ago...

SIMPLEVOLUTION
9th Apr 2016, 09:46
PLEASE READ THIS:

I only have one big request:

- Make it possible that we can still play private matches via LAN/Hamachi !!!

That would keep Nosgoth alive for me.

teatowls
9th Apr 2016, 11:42
I don't even know what to say.

As someone with pretty bad social anxiety I never expected to be able to play a multiplayer game, let alone a competitive one but Nosgoth changed all that. All I can say is, it was worth fighting to play it despite the constant panic attacks from playing it.

I hope another company picks up the game or they create one similar to this because it seemed truly unique.

Goodbye Nosgoth. One year and a half played, the 1900 hours were worth every second. I'll be here to turn the lights off in May. Thank you for everything.

RainaAudron
9th Apr 2016, 12:23
After thinking it over night (still can´t believe their decision is final), I came to the following conclusion. Even as a moderator, my knowledge about this situation is limited, so this is just my personal and honest opinion on how to understand what was going on in the last few weeks.

I think, as many others, that the explanation for shutting down is highly unsatisfactory:


This was not an easy decision to come to. It has been a pleasure to build this game with your help, but ultimately its audience hasn’t grown enough to sustain ongoing operations.

There were two recent (month old interviews) published regarding the beastmaster:
http://www.gamereactor.eu/articles/397213/Psyonix+on+Nosgoth+Beastmaster/
http://www.gamewatcher.com/interviews/nosgoth-interview/12502

Now, from neither of them we get the vibe they game will be shutdown shortly. That was just a month ago. So what happened in that month which changed the outlook of Nosgoth so drastically? Was it the playerbase? According to steamcharts, (http://steamcharts.com/app/200110#6m) it has been steadily at over 1000 players a day, so that could not have been the reason, otherwise the interviews would have at least hinted this or not promised further content in the future (if the devs expected such move).

It is quite clear that it was the last patch made a negative impact on many players by introducing issues with new launcher, friend lists, unable to group up, long queues to even play, etc. The devs/Square tried to remedy it by at least fixing the friend lists, but now it appears they hit a brick wall with the amount of work needed for the standalone launcher to work properly. Psyonix or SE or both got probably fed up with this mess instead of just reverting back to the version of the game which worked without the launcher (because they did not want to go back on their word or throw away the work done?). All I can think of now is that this standalone launcher which was supposed to bring players in, drove people away due to bugs and inability to play, exactly the opposite of what it was supposed to happen. SE probably thought the situation became unsalvagable and regretfully canned the promising game. I must say I was very discontent with the idea of moving away from Steam in the first place, but my and others´ warnings were not heard.

After all the hundreds/thousands of hours, blood, sweat and tears which got put into this game from both fans and devs, it seems unfair that all we get as an explanation is one sentence, which does not explain what happened at all. I think, we as the fans and supporters (most of us been here since alpha and bought lots of founder packs to support it) deserve to know the truth of what happened to y/our game. Please, it´s the least you can do.

neoVictrix
9th Apr 2016, 12:24
Oh god, finally made it onto the forums. Process to log on sucks on mobile phones.

But as I've said on Steam, this is unfortunate news. Had a lot of fun with the game, and seen a few people start their livestreams with Nosgoth.
It's been fun playing with a lot of you.

SomeFire
9th Apr 2016, 12:40
We need serverside to make our own server! With blackjack and female blood!

Ysanoire
9th Apr 2016, 12:48
Now, from neither of them we get the vibe they game will be shutdown shortly. That was just a month ago. So what happened in that month which changed the outlook of Nosgoth so drastically? Was it the playerbase? According to steamcharts, (http://steamcharts.com/app/200110#6m) it has been steadily at over 1000 players a day, so that could not have been the reason, otherwise the interviews would have at least hinted this or not promised further content in the future (if the devs expected such move).


My guess is they were putting a lot of hope in the beastmaster update and the decision was dependent on the results. And to be honest, I think it could have worked and boosted the numbers a little, with the new class and daily challenges, if it weren't for the fact it destroyed basic functionality. As it was, the update basically shut the door to the game for many players.

This game is really awesome, I'm heartbroken it won't be seen by a broader audience. Is there really no way Psyonix could continue the development independently? Maybe without SE's supervision and with control over the financial decisions this game could thrive again, cause Elder God knows it wasn't lacking in other departments.

Sluagh
9th Apr 2016, 12:49
It is quite clear that it was the last patch made a negative impact on many players by introducing issues with new launcher, friend lists, unable to group up, long queues to even play, etc. The devs/Square tried to remedy it by at least fixing the friend lists, but now it appears they hit a brick wall with the amount of work needed for the standalone launcher to work properly. Psyonix or SE or both got probably fed up with this mess instead of just reverting back to the version of the game which worked without the launcher (because they did not want to go back on their word or throw away the work done?). All I can think of now is that this standalone launcher which was supposed to bring players in, drove people away due to bugs and inability to play, exactly the opposite of what it was supposed to happen. SE probably thought the situation became unsalvagable and regretfully canned the promising game. I must say I was very discontent with the idea of moving away from Steam in the first place, but my and others´ warnings were not heard.

After all the hundreds/thousands of hours, blood, sweat and tears which got put into this game from both fans and devs, it seems unfair that all we get as an explanation is one sentence, which does not explain what happened at all. I think, we as the fans and supporters (most of us been here since alpha and bought lots of founder packs to support it) deserve to know the truth of what happened to y/our game. Please, it´s the least you can do.


I think maybe Raina's explanation sounds like a good place to start. I am tempted to think this has something to do with the final patch (where developer replies were so few and far between, or some kind of SE decision around that time).




Maybe without SE's supervision and with control over the financial decisions this game could thrive again, cause Elder God knows it wasn't lacking in other departments.

How much does it cost to buy the rights to a franchise, or even part of that part franchise - something like Nosgoth? Oh I am gonna insert another petition link: https://www.change.org/p/squareenix-don-t-shut-the-nosgoth-servers-down-on-may-31st?recruiter=61376261&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_page&utm_term=mob-xs-share_petition-no_msg&fb_ref=Default

Roy644
9th Apr 2016, 12:52
After thinking it over night (still can´t believe their decision is final), I came to the following conclusion. Even as a moderator, my knowledge about this situation is limited, so this is just my personal and honest opinion on how to understand what was going on in the last few weeks.

I think, as many others, that the explanation for shutting down is highly unsatisfactory:



There were two recent (month old interviews) published regarding the beastmaster:
http://www.gamereactor.eu/articles/397213/Psyonix+on+Nosgoth+Beastmaster/
http://www.gamewatcher.com/interviews/nosgoth-interview/12502

Now, from neither of them we get the vibe they game will be shutdown shortly. That was just a month ago. So what happened in that month which changed the outlook of Nosgoth so drastically? Was it the playerbase? According to steamcharts, (http://steamcharts.com/app/200110#6m) it has been steadily at over 1000 players a day, so that could not have been the reason, otherwise the interviews would have at least hinted this or not promised further content in the future (if the devs expected such move).

It is quite clear that it was the last patch made a negative impact on many players by introducing issues with new launcher, friend lists, unable to group up, long queues to even play, etc. The devs/Square tried to remedy it by at least fixing the friend lists, but now it appears they hit a brick wall with the amount of work needed for the standalone launcher to work properly. Psyonix or SE or both got probably fed up with this mess instead of just reverting back to the version of the game which worked without the launcher (because they did not want to go back on their word or throw away the work done?). All I can think of now is that this standalone launcher which was supposed to bring players in, drove people away due to bugs and inability to play, exactly the opposite of what it was supposed to happen. SE probably thought the situation became unsalvagable and regretfully canned the promising game. I must say I was very discontent with the idea of moving away from Steam in the first place, but my and others´ warnings were not heard.

After all the hundreds/thousands of hours, blood, sweat and tears which got put into this game from both fans and devs, it seems unfair that all we get as an explanation is one sentence, which does not explain what happened at all. I think, we as the fans and supporters (most of us been here since alpha and bought lots of founder packs to support it) deserve to know the truth of what happened to y/our game. Please, it´s the least you can do.

Your explanation could be close to the truth. But that's not what professionals would do. "Well, **** it, the launcher is ****, we can't fix it, let's dump the game". This is childish and a bit lunatic... Anyone in their right mind would see the game isn't dead and still has a lot of potential. And why giving us the "not enough players" bull**** while the game is in beta ?

I mean, we don't even expect a company to promote the game a lot in this phase, and they indeed did not advertise it ! So what are they crying about ? It will be so simple to get rid of the stupid launcher (like 99% of the community was asking), change the monetization (i.e get rid of stupid chests or change the price point/rewards), stop the money waste on leagues, concentrate on bug fixing and real content and finally, get the game out of beta with the advertising it deserves. Why does that seems so hard ?

The more I think about it, the more I think a lot of things feel off about this sudden announcement... Just look at this (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-03-11-nosgoth-launches-soon-after-over-a-year-in-early-access), barely a month old interview.

PS : a comment on this article (http://www.pcgamer.com/nosgoth-is-closing-down/) : "Well this is the first time I've heard about the game so... That might be the reason you didn't have an audience right there." Do you see the problem Square Enix ? If it wasn't for a friend of mine that stumble onto Nosgoth with luck on Steam, I would never have heard of the game. And all the friends that we manage to recruit never heard of it either. SEE THE PROBLEM ?

Sluagh
9th Apr 2016, 12:56
I mean, we don't even expect a company to promote the game a lot in this phase, and they indeed did not advertise it ! So what are they crying about ? It will be so simple to get rid of the stupid launcher (like 99% of the community was asking), change the monetization (i.e get rid of stupid chests or change the price point/rewards), stop the money waste on leagues, concentrate on bug fixing and real content and finally, get the game out of beta with the advertising it deserves. Why does that seems so hard ?



Yes if it ever does come back launcher free and under "noo managemint" can we simultaneously throw all our chests into the Abyss?

Scourgefrost
9th Apr 2016, 13:05
Alright, I understand there is nothing more the community can do... but honestly before Nosgoth shuts down, I want all the money u guys owe me... I've made multiple tickets everywhere emailed everyone u guys told me too... still haven't received a dime for months. Someone from psyonix or SE please reply to this post, it's the least u can do....

Agreed.

Roy644
9th Apr 2016, 13:13
Yes if it ever does come back launcher free and under "noo managemint" can we simultaneously throw all our chests into the Abyss?

The problem is, publishers seem to be unable to think of other means to monetize a game than RNG crates these days... If this doesn't work to make tons of money, might as well shut down the project eh ! They fail to realize that there is still a part of the gaming community that doesn't like this system and won't take part in such business practice. Not everyone is playing CS:GO and buying keys to get knife skins. It's not the ONLY way to make money for god's sake.

GenFeelGood
9th Apr 2016, 13:20
Perhaps when he says that it's because of player numbers, they expected a surge in player numbers after the last patch; and when numbers didn't reach what were projected, it was decided that the game ultimately wouldn't have the numbers to be profitable enough to be worth future development?

I still feel terrible this is happening, my love for LoK has been considerably tarnished.

BloodyMaria
9th Apr 2016, 13:21
It's obviosly that I'm very angry, dissapointet, etc. And I'm ready to sign my name under the most of the comments here, but the thing I wanted to say: after the devs promised so many good stuff I was really thinking about to spend more money in this game, cause I wanted the latest tyrant skin, I wanted a new shield for a vanguard and I was waiting for the new ghouls and Beastmaster's raptors. and the course of euro just went down so I thought I can soon let myself to buy some runestones, and then... God, I never wanted to spend some money in the game, I never donated before, but this game was really worthy. And it's gameplay was really unique, so I don't know will I ever play PVP-session game. I think, no. And I really hope that some miracle will bring Nosgoh back to life, because this game really has a potential and it was on just one step to show it. So please, give this game a chance!

lucinvampire
9th Apr 2016, 13:26
This game is really awesome, I'm heartbroken it won't be seen by a broader audience. Is there really no way Psyonix could continue the development independently? Maybe without SE's supervision and with control over the financial decisions this game could thrive again, cause Elder God knows it wasn't lacking in other departments.

This right here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've been going over so many different things in my head since yesterday, and I wonder if there is any possibility of something like this, or something via crowd funding, kickstarter, or SE changing their business model or something working. I personally would put in all the money I have for something to come of this game and not let it end.

If they turned around tomorrow and said, ok, we'll continue but the games no longer going to be free to play, you have to pay like - I don't know £40 for it (just plucking a random figure out the air). I'd run at them saying yep, I'll pay that, and I'd pay a monthly subscription charge, so like WoW for example charges £10 a month, yeah I'd be happy with that. They can even keep stuff in the store for real money to make something extra, just make the things that are Runes only available for both Gold and Runes.

Anyway, I can't actually put into words how I feel, but if anyone has any ideas on how anything could be done then please do contact me, I'd do anything to help! I'm not bright and I'm not clever and nor am I rich but I'd do anything in my power to stop this game from closing.

You can find links to me in my signature, and if this is the end, then it won’t be, not for me, this game will never die, it may have never made release but in my heart it has been for over the last 2 years and to me, it will always have a special place!

Long live Nosgoth

Roy644
9th Apr 2016, 13:43
I don't know £40 for it (just plucking a random figure out the air). I'd run at them saying yep, I'll pay that, and I'd pay a monthly subscription charge, so like WoW for example charges £10 a month, yeah I'd be happy with that.

Ok for a fixed price to get the game, no problem. I would pay this if they can guarantee us this won't go down the drain again and that they learn from this "failure" (i don't consider it a failure but anyway...), but don't give them those ideas, a monthly subscription is stupid and won't work for a game like that. I would NEVER pay a monthly subscription fee for a video game, I can't allow that.

And to Square Enix / Psyonix : look at the forums, here and on Steam. You see the number of players commenting on this ? You see the number of players that came here after this announcement ? I'm sure you never thought that many people cared so much about your game. Well, now you know. You can't ignore the huge amount of people that are voicing their sadness/anger, and you need to stop blaming the lack of players. You were the ones doing stuff that made people reluctant to play, and you are now the ones that need to change the course of action if you want Nosgoth to work. It's not too late to change things, look at the number of people who care (https://www.change.org/p/squareenix-don-t-shut-the-nosgoth-servers-down-on-may-31st) !

Zarxiel93
9th Apr 2016, 13:46
why would you put 1 e in this game... people get over youreselfs and stop crying....
this game was dead months ago. I stopped playing 6 months ago cause then it was broken and dead. I came back 2 weeks ago to game thats impossible to launch.... HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! LET IT DIE! It deserves to be forgotten. With so many bugs, ok bugs, but be unable to actually launch the game without black launcher, bad gateway. Mke ill close it for 7 times. OOO holy **** im in game! Nop! youre currently not logged in in launcher! hmmmm, let me try again. Fk you bad gateway, mke lets relog 4 more times! OOOOOOOhhhh imagine error! pls die Nosgoth. TY <3
NOPE, I grow up with LoK, I CANNOT FORGET THI GAME, and I will fight with all my body, soul and blood to try to make this game surviving. I can still play it to say the truth, don't see any problem to enter to it.
Yhea the launcher was a bad idea, but this don't mean the game must die for this.

If necessary I can even pay all months for play this game, I don't care, I only want Nosgoth will survive.

ina991
9th Apr 2016, 13:50
NOPE, I grow up with LoK, I CANNOT FORGET THI GAME, and I will fight with all my body, soul and blood to try to make this game surviving. I can still play it to say the truth, don't see any problem to enter to it.
Yhea the launcher was a bad idea, but this don't mean the game must die for this.

If necessary I can even pay all months for play this game, I don't care, I only want Nosgoth will survive.


do you not get this game was dead and full of bugs before launcher.... I played this game certainly more then you and ESL tournaments. Dead game waaaaay before launcher

Roy644
9th Apr 2016, 13:52
If necessary I can even pay all months for play this game, I don't care, I only want Nosgoth will survive.

No, please no, this is just irrational because you want the game to survive so badly, but this is NOT the solution. Make us pay 20$ for it and be done with it, stop giving away 10k$ for stupid leagues and make the monetization system appealing to customers, not those stupid RNG crates, and stop messing around with the launcher. Coupled with solid advertising, it would be more than enough to make the game profitable and to keep a solid player-base.

PollyEsther
9th Apr 2016, 13:54
http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.13425744.6979/flat,800x800,075,f.u3.jpg

GG

Lord_Aevum
9th Apr 2016, 13:54
So then, it all comes full circle again. The writing was on the wall here for some time, ever since Rocket League took off at least. I can't pretend it's an unwelcome decision as far as the creative direction of the LoK license goes, but I am very sorry for everyone here who became passionately invested in the game. There has always been a consensus that it was fundamentally fun to play at its core, only falling victim to bureaucratic intrigue and endless technical issues. No correcting that now, in any case.

I sincerely hope all dedicated staff land on their feet and all affected players find their fun in other titles with a much happier fate. For me now it is just yet another cancelled project and cautionary tale, to throw into the archives with the rest of Dead Sun and document for historical curiosity, such as it is. We have the measure of this entire, stillborn era now. Let's hope any future attempts to revive LoK are better conceived and can finally shrug off the current trend. Assuming there will be any. :(

Zarxiel93
9th Apr 2016, 14:01
do you not get this game was dead and full of bugs before launcher.... I played this game certainly more then you and ESL tournaments. So yeah ask someone with brain. Dead game waaaaay before launcher

I played for 1700+ hours, this game wasn't dead.

Zarxiel93
9th Apr 2016, 14:02
No, please no, this is just irrational because you want the game to survive so badly, but this is NOT the solution. Make us pay 20$ for it and be done with it, stop giving away 10k$ for stupid leagues and make the monetization system appealing to customers, not those stupid RNG crates, and stop messing around with the launcher. Coupled with solid advertising, it would be more than enough to make the game profitable and to keep a solid player-base.

Yhea I agree to, giving cash in league was a really dumb idea -.-

ina991
9th Apr 2016, 14:03
I played for 1700+ hours, this game wasn't dead.

Then you dont know how or what sucessfull game looks like mate

iquaniqua
9th Apr 2016, 14:23
dude this game has basically nothing to do with lok except the concept of the vampires, most people who play nosgoth have no idea what lok is and couldn't care they play it because its asymmetrical shooter which is unique end of... most people enjoy it for the rare game playstyle that no other games offer. simple as that. it isnt a rpg full of lore. get over it it isnt and never will be youre beloved LoK. its just a death match simple as.


I agree, i started playing for the uniqueness of this game, it being in the LoK universe is just a cool bonus

Zarxiel93
9th Apr 2016, 14:24
dude this game has basically nothing to do with lok except the concept of the vampires, most people who play nosgoth have no idea what lok is and couldn't care they play it because its asymmetrical shooter which is unique end of... most people enjoy it for the rare game playstyle that no other games offer. simple as that. it isnt a rpg full of lore. get over it it isnt and never will be youre beloved LoK. its just a death match simple as.

Now.. @ Devs

if you really care about nosgoth you would just go to the guy in charge and try to log in and play nosgoth in front of him and say hey idiot this is why no one plays nosgoth any more and this is why its dying we need to be fixing bugs not adding new **** nobody wants. you want people to play and spend money then you need to come through with a product that works..
its how business works.
if any of you devs cared about nosgoth you would tell the guy in charge this so don't act like you're all sad and ****.
since before vanguard got added the game was dying. i said this is how nosgoth will end so long ago, as ive seen many good games in bad hands fail the same.

you clearly dont care lol. bunch of tools

This game is not a singleplayer I know, don't have a true story, but the references of the past game, the lore ecc... make me love it, and even if it is a spin-off, I love it.

Lavamancer
9th Apr 2016, 14:25
That is really sad. I belive the game had everything to be in cybersports, I wish devs could sell it to someone else to develop instead...

kLauE187
9th Apr 2016, 14:33
Bad timing for open beta release, square-enix with wrong priorities, no QA and not enough good UT3-coder to deal with all this bugs coming up. But well, knew it won't last much longer, but not even release the game was unexpected. To be fair, there's no big demand for asymetric shooter sadly, but a lot of the playerbase just got lost due to a few patches which made performance horrible or just introduced a lot of game-breaking bugs which couldn't be handled by the small team who was still working for nosgoth.

Well, was a good time nonetheless. A lot of good memories but i guess it's time to move on :hmm:

SonixSquad
9th Apr 2016, 14:44
I imagine the conversation went something like this....

SE: Okay guys, you've had over a year to build a playerbase, we need more evidence of success via increased revenue now.

Psy: Well the fastest way we can think of growing the playerbase is to run a tournament with a cash prize reward. This should attract more players. We will need some cash for that though. Oh yeah, we could also do with some promotion , going to fund some advertising or what?

SE: Okay, you can have $100k to do what you need, you're not getting any more from us. If you want to channel that into adverts, thats upto you but our marketing team suggests the tournament idea will cost you less and attract more players in the short term.

Psy: Meh..... okay then, lets do this.

SE: Oh... btw, you have till April to prove this game is worthy of us financing it otherwise we will be forced to pull the plug on funding development.

Cue the $10k dollar Leagues...with no advertising.

MuShYRoOM
9th Apr 2016, 15:03
dude this game has basically nothing to do with lok except the concept of the vampires, most people who play nosgoth have no idea what lok is and couldn't care they play it because its asymmetrical shooter which is unique end of... most people enjoy it for the rare game playstyle that no other games offer. simple as that. it isnt a rpg full of lore. get over it it isnt and never will be youre beloved LoK. its just a death match simple as.

I think this was a big problem to get new players. A lot of LoK-fans tried it out but stopped playing it because it wasnt what they expected. And a lot of players who would have loved the game never tried it out, because they thought its like LoK, but they were never interested in LoK, so they never gave it a try.

What i rly dont understand, why was there never a step before shutting down the servers now?
Why didnt you stop putting 10k $ in a broken League every month before and hire new devs instead?
Why did u prefer putting time into this launcher instead of fixing old known bugs?
Why do you punish the community now instead of the responsible people who made the wrong decisions? (launcher, monthly 10k prizepool)

The least thing you can do and owe to your community is to make this game playable with private matches.. even if it will only be hosted without dedicated servers..

Ryugan34
9th Apr 2016, 15:04
Nosgoth died the very moment SE took peole from nosgoth teams to put them in Rocket league because it had more success at that time . From that moment, everything went worse on the dev side (more bugs, less caring etc)

NiamaraWeee
9th Apr 2016, 15:16
I am still so overwhelmingly sad to see these news... I can't believe they are going to cast this game into the Abyss...

I used to be one of the "They announced a new Legacy of Kain game after 10 years, only for it to be PvP? Why? I don't like this at all", but decided to give it a chance, after I read some words from Daniel Cabuco, about how we should try it out first... and before I knew it, I ended up loving the game very much - with it's wonderful unique atmosphere, the cool characters, maps, classes and abilities and it's great gameplay... and I met some nice people on there as well... so much potential and just to let it go to waste like that... :(

And I just hit my 'over 1k hours' a few weeks ago... wanted to level some classes to get the Elite skin... haha... it's just so sad... now, while playing matches and trying to record some things for memory's sake, I can't quite concentrate that well... you think "Wow, it's still so much fun to play!" and then there's just that feeling of overwhelming sadness the whole match, because you think "it'll end soon and there's nothing to be done about it... I just don't get it"

Is there really nothing to be done? Well... then I bid my farewell to this game, that could've been so much more...


But... there's always the coin's edge... a third option... haha xD

Like Kain said... there is still something left... and that is: "The first bitter taste of that terrible illusion: Hope."

It might still be denial, but who knows what the future might bring... and... after Raziel was cast into the Abyss, he was resurrected some time later... wasn't he? Until then, I'll dearly miss this game...



Thanks for all the hard work you've put into it so far, aside from a few things, that needed to be adressed, it was overall a job well done.

Obisher
9th Apr 2016, 15:28
That's very sad news. Although I haven't played that much for the past 6-9 months, I was hoping to come back to the game, probably around official release.

But the thing that really hit me in the nerve was this pathetic excuse that the game is shutting down because of the lack of players. Yeah, the game had it's problems and the playerbase decreased. But you know what this game also had? Community with great ideas, which you chose to ignore. We told you the chests were crap and gave you a bunch of suggestions how to improve the system so you could get more money from them and we wouldn't feel like we're wiping our asses with that money and burning it afterwards. But no, you said you're quite happy with how chests work. Also that league prize money. The whole community rebels against prize money, and you don't see a problem with that? What the hell is wrong with you?

I could give you a bunch more examples, but I hope you get my point. You say the game is shutting down because of the lack of players? It is our fault? This game shutting down is YOUR fault Square Enix!!! You are truly a magnificent example how greedy corporations destroy something promising and with great concept. We gave you a bunch of great suggestions and you just ignored it all!

What I would like is to hear from the people who pulled the plug. Not from Oghamsmith. I want to hear from YOU people in business suits the real reason why you decided to stop development of the game. Hell, I would even pay for a 1-hour Twitch stream to hear the real reason why they gave up on the game.

But in the end, I would just like to say I had a really good time playing this game. In these humble 550 hours I've had a great time and met really nice people. I'm gonna miss playing Nosgoth with you guys!

Roy644
9th Apr 2016, 15:31
I see a lot of resigned people. Don't act like you have nothing to say about this decision guys. It's our game too, I think some of us put a lot of effort and money into the game, we all helped and try to make this game better, and sometimes, our voice wasn't heard even though we were right.

It seems normal to have higher expectations for Nosgoth!

calypso-694
9th Apr 2016, 16:26
I said this earlier in this thread but if someone could extract all the art, sound, music etc and put it in a zip file? That'd be great. If someone could extract the character models as well even better. Archive it in the lost worlds or the wiki. Something to keep this game from fading to dust that isn't just fun memories and YouTube videos. Please. I'd do it myself but I'm not computer savvy unless it's making music. Again, art, sound, music. The lore blogs. Zip files. Something. Anything.

And someone said why not release the rahab now? The game is canned and it won't be used so we should get to see her. Even in whatever state she's in. It'll be a final gift. Be it concept art or anything. Cmon!!!

LegacyOfKayn
9th Apr 2016, 17:20
This still feels unreal,i mean ffs a couple of weeks ago we got a mini state of play,a mounth ago u guys were talking about all the big plans u had for the game and now u drop everything out of the sudden? No reason no nothing? Srssly?
Why? The game was almost complete,there was 1 more vamp class,a couple of skins for BM and Rahabim and some bug fixes here and there and we were g2g.
The rest of the features could've come later down the line,features like trade system,clan system,forge adjustments,thoese r not urgent,they can be implemented later.
And ur only reason is basically low player base? Guns of Icarus have 200 players daily and THEY R STILL RUNNING (as far as i know at least).
This game is one of a kind,it has HUGE potential BECAUSE of that,it offers an experience no other game does,don't just drop it bfore u even launch it,finish it,advertise it a bit AND U GET URSELVES A GOLD MINE!!!
I never spend money on a game in my life bfore nosgoth,this is the only game i felt like it's worth sending money on...u can't just drop it like this.

NiamaraWeee
9th Apr 2016, 17:21
And someone said why not release the rahab now? The game is canned and it won't be used so we should get to see her. Even in whatever state she's in. It'll be a final gift. Be it concept art or anything. Cmon!!!

They should show us something about her and all that, I agree... it's the least, yeah... was excited for the last class to come into the game and complete the circle... :/


I don't know but... haha... this song seems really fitting for the end, doesn't it?

I am just punching myself in the gut with this... aren't I?

watch?v=lvB_nsKXew0&nohtml5=False

Argh... I still don't want to believe it...

Sluagh
9th Apr 2016, 17:27
I see a lot of resigned people. Don't act like you have nothing to say about this decision guys. It's our game too, I think some of us put a lot of effort and money into the game, we all helped and try to make this game better, and sometimes, our voice wasn't heard even though we were right.

It seems normal to have higher expectations for Nosgoth!

Well said Roy. "Yes well, in the end of the day, blah, blah, doomed such and such." I know the game series operates on a fatalistic story arc but that doesn't mean you have to. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. The petition needs a bit of work. What is going on with Discord? I started a Thunderclap so please share via social media and stuff (I have no social life that is why I am here)

https://www.thunderclap.it/projects/40208-don-t-shut-the-servers?locale=en

enkaku-silence-
9th Apr 2016, 17:43
Nosgoth died the very moment SE took peole from nosgoth teams to put them in Rocket league because it had more success at that time . From that moment, everything went worse on the dev side (more bugs, less caring etc)

Rocket League is developed and published by Psyonix only. Square Enix has nothing to do with Rocket League.
But I can imagine Psyonix did probably focus more on Rocket League, and looking at their group photo on their homepage with 32 people on it, I guess there weren't many left.

Roy644
9th Apr 2016, 17:46
This still feels unreal,i mean ffs a couple of weeks ago we got a mini state of play,a mounth ago u guys were talking about all the big plans u had for the game and now u drop everything out of the sudden? No reason no nothing? Srssly?
Why? The game was almost complete,there was 1 more vamp class,a couple of skins for BM and Rahabim and some bug fixes here and there and we were g2g.
The rest of the features could've come later down the line,features like trade system,clan system,forge adjustments,thoese r not urgent,they can be implemented later.
And ur only reason is basically low player base? Guns of Icarus have 200 players daily and THEY R STILL RUNNING (as far as i know at least).
This game is one of a kind,it has HUGE potential BECAUSE of that,it offers an experience no other game does,don't just drop it bfore u even launch it,finish it,advertise it a bit AND U GET URSELVES A GOLD MINE!!!
I never spend money on a game in my life bfore nosgoth,this is the only game i felt like it's worth sending money on...u can't just drop it like this.


Basically sums up my feelings on the matter. Decision that comes out of nowhere (they were talking about getting out of EA less than a month ago), the player-base excuse is just BS because the player-base was the same since forever and it seems to work well enough, and for christ's sake, this is a BETA. You don't expect all your players and all your income to arrive during BETA don't you ?? This whole story stinks, and I feel like we are the ones paying the price of SE/Psyonix mistakes...


Well said Roy. "Yes well, in the end of the day, blah, blah, doomed such and such." I know the game series operates on a fatalistic story arc but that doesn't mean you have to. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. The petition needs a bit of work. What is going on with Discord? I started a Thunderclap so please share via social media and stuff (I have no social life that is why I am here)

https://www.thunderclap.it/projects/40208-don-t-shut-the-servers?locale=en

Yes. It seems hard to say that you love the game and then be resigned like this, without wanting to change things or even be angry at Square Enix...

Roy644
9th Apr 2016, 17:51
Rocket League is developed and published by Psyonix only. Square Enix has nothing to do with Rocket League.
But I can imagine Psyonix did probably focus more on Rocket League, and looking at their group photo on their homepage with 32 people on it, I guess there weren't many left.

I think this is a false excuse. If Psyonix was the real problem, and Square Enix wanted to keep developing the game, they would have hired another company (a company with UE3 experience and PvP experience shouldn't be too hard to find). I think Square Enix got tired of pumping money into Nosgoth (*sigh* leagues *sigh*) without getting that much income so they cut Psyonix off. And ofc, SE had no intention of doing some effort to change their course of action regarding advertising or monetization

netmota
9th Apr 2016, 18:22
I come to manifest my deep pain for Nosgoth.

Supposedly Square Enix as invested and financed Nosgoth for it own ruin. We saw 10.000$ being squandered every month in Ranked Leages giving a total of 60.000$ to trash in the last 6 months. Since the open beta we did not see more than the waste of resources than could be canalized to rigth development of the game. Plus... This is a consequence of the lack of experience of dealing with the community demanding players. The developers must pay attention to the community in which they serve. I completely understand the decision of the Square Enix, in their place i would do the same and maybe so other ways and other doors will be open.

My condolences
netmota


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ99tuXBLDA

TheDreamcrusher
9th Apr 2016, 18:34
I have a last request.

What are the names of the Psyonix devs and Square Enix reps who have been the most involved since the open beta began? Or the most control?

Zarxiel93
9th Apr 2016, 18:37
http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=188558

gnome_dome
9th Apr 2016, 18:56
So here’s a crazy idea.

1. Revert matchmaking and party system code to a stable pre-Beastmaster version.
2. Maybe if somehow feasible, revert authentication and startup code to a stable pre-Launcher version. Rather optional if #1 is stable enough for most players.
3. Remove all inventory and unlock conditions, simply granting all items to any player by default.
4. Distribute the matchmaking server application to the community. Alter the game client to allow the user to specify a matchmaking server address.
5. Propose a cost for the above. If the community then pledges that much, execute the plan.

This way, the reason we can’t play without official servers (player account authentication and inventory must be synced) is no longer valid. The community could take the hosting of servers into their own hands. Heck, even if this never happens, you could at least grant all items to existing players now so we can experience Nosgoth to the fullest during its final days. I’m a programmer myself, so none of this sounds like a gargantuan task to me (unless the source code totally lacks any semblance of organization). Half of it involves restoring old files, and the other half involves bypassing a bunch of “is the user allowed to do this” checks, plus minor tweaks.

Yeah I know, it’s not gonna happen... but ya know, that’s how much your fanbase wants to prevent this game from drowning in the Abyss; we think of schemes like this.

Once again, I’ll say thanks for the ride. It has been fun and even now I do not regret buying my Runestones. Cheers to the Nosgoth we knew and loved, and to keeping discussion positive.

Sluagh
9th Apr 2016, 19:11
So here’s a crazy idea.

1. Revert matchmaking and party system code to a stable pre-Beastmaster version.
2. Maybe if somehow feasible, revert authentication and startup code to a stable pre-Launcher version. Rather optional if #1 is stable enough for most players.
3. Remove all inventory and unlock conditions, simply granting all items to any player by default.
4. Distribute the matchmaking server application to the community. Alter the game client to allow the user to specify a matchmaking server address.
5. Propose a cost for the above. If the community then pledges that much, execute the plan.

This way, the reason we can’t play without official servers (player account authentication and inventory must be synced) is no longer valid. The community could take the hosting of servers into their own hands. Heck, even if this never happens, you could at least grant all items to existing players now so we can experience Nosgoth to the fullest during its final days. I’m a programmer myself, so none of this sounds like a gargantuan task to me (unless the source code totally lacks any semblance of organization). Half of it involves restoring old files, and the other half involves bypassing a bunch of “is the user allowed to do this” checks, plus minor tweaks.

Yeah I know, it’s not gonna happen... but ya know, that’s how much your fanbase wants to prevent this game from drowning in the Abyss; we think of schemes like this.

Once again, I’ll say thanks for the ride. It has been fun and even now I do not regret buying my Runestones. Cheers to the Nosgoth we knew and loved, and to keeping discussion positive.

Thanks Gnome Dome. That sounds good to me, but I know nothing about how these things work. We should start putting a proposal letter together, and collect signatures. I mean essentially the petitions going round are like this, but as Roy was saying before we need to be a bit more specific.

wortelriandu
9th Apr 2016, 19:46
Crap, now that I had this awsome tattooed Tyrant :rolleyes:
They should never had started this crappy game in the first place, and I wouldn't recommend wasting your time and money in anything, that the two companies, involved in this scam, put out.
GOOOD bye
:wave:

Roy644
9th Apr 2016, 21:46
Just some things for Square Enix to consider (even if they said they won't change their mind blabla) :

- cut the stupid leagues and cash prizes for the moment
- make the launcher work or otherwise get rid of it
- fix the bugs reported since ages (deceiver illusions and minions staying frozen, matchmaking, broken lobbies, bad anti-cheat policy and so on)
- change the monetization system to something more customer friendly than RNG crates (or eventually make it a P2P game)
- concentrate on actual content (maps + last vampire class)
- get the game out of early access with proper advertising (I think Square Enix has enough notoriety to be able to advertise any game they want)


You have here a part of the recipe to make this game work. This should be more than enough to build a bigger player-base and actually keep the players in-game. It's basically what everyone was asking before you suddenly quit. Players don't always say stupid things you know

W124l29
9th Apr 2016, 22:48
https://www.change.org/p/squareenix-don-t-shut-the-nosgoth-servers-down-on-may-31st?recruiter=524651918&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink

http://steamcommunity.com/app/200110/discussions/#

I'm quite disappointed not really in the ceasing of development of this game, but the shutting down of servers. If there is anyway that people can be allowed to host their own servers with a minimal support publisher-side for item drops, achievements, &c, then I'm sure people would continue playing for years. The Nosgoth launcher, if they were tracking online playerbase that way, was a major detriment. I don't want to be shown as in-game in Nosgoth all day on Steam.

An RTS Legacy of Kain would be awesome, for that matter, but Blizzard would be better than Square-Enix. They're ruining their perfect legacy of Final Fantasy, et al, by shutting down the servers to this beautiful title. I haven't played this in awhile, but I enjoyed it quite a bit. I'm sure others who were not regularily playing anymore would agree. The playerbase, in total, is larger than they assumed. All of this begs the question whether not allowing Founder Pack refunds is even legal by consumer protection law.

W124l29
9th Apr 2016, 23:30
they can host the launcher server, the base server for the game data & items, just like before, but allow client-side hosting for official matches--provided those people have installed the launcher files which semi-invasively might check specific folders per agreement that there is no malware or cheat material being used by said host, or, alternatively, simply allowing open-hosting of official matches, but then anyone hosting can simply shut off his or her PC to cancel the match, and so then in that case I'd suggest allowing client-side hosting but one where the official "host" changes automatically to someone else in the server if the main host disconnects, a shared-client-hosting

Gugulug5000
9th Apr 2016, 23:58
I'm soooo disappointed with this decision. The game is pretty much done! Why didn't they just finish fixing the remaining major bugs, put the Rahabim in, and release the game? Some money is better than no money. They could even scrap the launcher and leagues entirely. Hell, they could even scrap the chest system and just sell the items straight up. Maybe if they had actually listened to what people were saying we wouldn't be having this problem. Who was the genius who thought, when asked "how are we going to make enough money to support this game?" suggested "hey let's throw $10,000 into the garbage every month, that'll work!"

Honestly, I'm sickened by the way this game was handled. This was my most played multiplayer title EVER. It may very well have been my most played game ever too. People like the game! How about, rather than scrapping the whole thing, they fire the idiots who suggested cash prizes for leagues, the launcher, and the chest system, and then carry on as usual? I'm still pissed about this a day after they announced it. Nosgoth was an amazing game ruined by poor management.

Whoever manages to get Nosgoth running on a private server will be my best friend ever.

JackEr4
10th Apr 2016, 01:11
They could release the online suite without steam I guess and let us keep it online
@W124l29 I dont mind if the match ends when the host quits, thats not a big problem.

Ygdrasel
10th Apr 2016, 01:46
1) Last patch broke a ton of stuff.
2) The game wasn't marketed or advertised in any significant way.
3) Didn't even hit release yet.

Gee, I wonder why there's no audience... :hmm: Somehow it seems like calling this a decision is giving it too much credit.

Hugbringer
10th Apr 2016, 01:47
Guys and Gals...

This decision isn't going to be undone. Even if for some miraculous reason they decide to try reinvigorate the game again, the damage is already done. All they'll get is even more negative publicity as a result from the core collection of people still playing this.

This was likely a decision made several months ago during either their 2015, 3rd or 4th quarter results; a collective decision by Psyonix and Squeenix to cease development. As soon as 'X is being canceled/retired/discontinued' is announced, in any medium, sales plummet down to nearly nothing. They save the announcement till the beginning of 2nd quarter where its results are incorporated into the budget.

All fan-based populations will degrade over time and constantly need an introduction of new income to keep it going, especially with a free-play model. The production costs were probably forecast to slip into the red sometime during the 2016 financial year and it made perfect financial sense to cease production.

I know that this is mostly just speculation and about as useful as anyone else's speculation. Though from their perspective it makes sense....from ours....we're super dedicated and it doesn't make sense.

Profits are profits....no profits = no game. I at least felt I get my worth of the game and will likely play it a few more times before it and Kain's Legacy, disappear forever. Squeenix doesn't have a super great track record of utilizing it's IPs in innovative or 'Consumer Friendly' fashion and LoK is going to be shelved.

Ygdrasel
10th Apr 2016, 01:58
LoK is going to be shelved.

Going to be. Please. LoK has been on the shelf for ages. It never really left the shelf. The frankly pathetic treatment of Nosgoth here makes that as clear as it could ever be made.

But hey, you want a proposal, SE? Psyonix gave you plenty of lore material and designs via Nosgoth. Incorporate them into a proper story-driven installment. Same concept, same era. It could work if you'd just care an iota. Get the Dark Prophecy devs back in here. DO SOMETHING WITH THE IP.

(Will the blog be preserved anywhere, the lore stuff?)
And if Psyonix' focus really did shift significantly to Rocket League, maybe just hand Nosgoth to people who can focus on it exclusively?

MasterShuriko
10th Apr 2016, 03:22
"Treating the LoK IP" bad thats an understatement. They left the fans / players with a cliffhanger thats lasted over 13 years now since Defiance.
And if you turn your head you can see Annual games come out like Tomb Raider, Hitman and Just cause etc..well its been almost 3 months since Rise of the Tomb Raider came out so im guessing its time for another sequel there..

DARE to stick the chin out a bit and Put your efforts into LOK!
Slap yourselfs on the chest and focus on making it a badass game!

KaininitePriestess
10th Apr 2016, 06:06
Now that I've had a day to process this a little better, I thought I'd come back to say that if there is any chance whatsoever, I really want to see this game continue. I've said all along and will continue to say that if we were given the chance to pay for this game outright to fund it - paying $60 for a finished game so that the developers got the money they needed and we didn't have to worry about it being yanked out from underneath us because not enough people bought into the rng chest bull**** - then I would happily do so. I pre-ordered Defiance when it came out, stood in line with everyone at Midnight waiting for it to come out, me and my sister are seriously devoted to this franchise and would love to see it continue! And that point still stands!

I just can't stop thinking about the fact that come May 31st, I won't be able to log on and play, I won't be able to join a match and engage in the wonderful tactics and gameplay that I've come to love so much, I won't be able to explore the absolutely beautiful environments and lore that were woven into the game to make it what it is today. That thought makes me want to scream and cry still, the fact that I paid money for this game and now it's going to be taken away from me after I've come to love it so much simply because the company felt that there weren't enough of us and they don't want to give us the courtesy of finding a way to let us play it even if they don't continue development is infuriating and depressing and just...

This is why I dislike online-only games. Once the developer decides they're not making enough money on it, they can just take it all away, even if the players still desperately love it and would continue playing it until the day they die, old men and women sitting behind a computer screen, cackling and shouting at their screens while their grandkids laugh about Mema and Pap-Pap playing their old-people games. And look at how many of us these days still play our old Nintendo and Atari games just for the heck of it! WE WOULD BE THOSE OLD PEOPLE BEHIND THE COMPUTER SCREEN.

I'm just...I really, really love this game. At least give us the chance to buy a "copy" of the game like we used to be able to do, with the ability to play on private LAN servers or something similar. Let us continue to be able to keep the fun alive, don't take this away from us! We've come to love it so much! It's so good! It has bugs and issues, but even if you didn't put any development into finishing it yourselves, you can bet there would be some fans in the community that would be able to work out a patch to get it working after a while if you let us! That's what the fans do, especially the LoK fandom! You may not want to fix it and make it work, but we will!

JUST GIVE US A CHANCE! LET US DO SOMETHING! ANYTHING! Look at us! We're begging you!!!:(:(:(:(:(

netmota
10th Apr 2016, 07:55
Guys

This game have no solution at the moment. This product as it stands would have to be significant changes to reach any goal.

If somewhere in time this product come to market again, it should be a entire new IP with nothing related to the legacy of kain series. All related content would be deleted and replaced according to a new IP.

Significant changes should be done related to the user interface as well the way in which the game collect and evaluates the individual performance of any player. This concept of tem based game must offer generally a gaming experience that allows players to choose what kind of team should play, and the evaluation of each person should be made individually so that we are not evaluated by the mistakes of any element of team. This game come to an end simply because this model dont reach any basic goal than this game promises. And if they really want to have a chance to make it something in the future they need to recast everything was done until now and if longer they have any idea what to do then throw the game, the community and all involved in this project to the trash as is happening.

I am not at all surprised, in fact i expected to much for this outcome. Developers have always had too indulgent and sloppy posture in how they developed this game and as such was not expected more of this team unfortunately. I work hard and sometimes i get to work 12 and 16 hours a day to achieve my goals and even with my little free time i've spend more than 3,000 hours in this game. Something that not everyone is willing to do.

Sasha_Vykos
10th Apr 2016, 08:30
https://www.change.org/p/squareenix-don-t-shut-the-nosgoth-servers-down-on-may-31st?source_location=petitions_share_skip

Let's try to save this game.. there's nothing to loose

Necro71
10th Apr 2016, 08:37
Well, they dont care about their fan base opinnion, they never did.
Low audiance? Overkill was listening to feedback and Payday 2 (whitch i played since day 1 of relese) from not such a good popularity went to around 20k online everyday. CS:GO for first year was considered as an joke and only little ammount of poeple ware playing it with rest sticking to 1.6 and Source.
Only thanks to devs from Hidden Path who ware listening to people who play their games and working hard to implement those changes we have good games right now.
And how about Nosgoth? 2 years of not beuing interested in player base feedback, implementing some chitty louncher (seriously!? what was the purpouse of the louncher, its stupid...), Instead of developing game and fixing bugs adding more and more payable content.
For quite some time i saw in Nosgoth only money exploiting machine.

Im sure that if Square-Enix would sell rights to this game to diffrent dev team who cares this game would be in much better shape.

lucinvampire
10th Apr 2016, 08:59
(Will the blog be preserved anywhere, the lore stuff?)


I'm not sure if something officially will remain, they haven't said, but I'm personally assuming when the forum gets shut down and the game the website will disappear too.

I personally have (I believe) all the Lore blog posts and all officially artwork, screenshots (and will thanks to a friend the official videos) which I will be complying on a "Nosgoth Legacy" website.

I am frantically trying to get all of the rest of the bits I would like together before the game closes, so until it is actually shutdown I probably wont find the time to really start proper work on it (as I'd rather be spending what little time I have left playing).

That said I am hoping to get the domain sorted either today or if not by next weekend and set up the public facebook group, so people will have somewhere where they can come and talk and share stuff. I sadly don't have the skills or the knowledge to set up a standalone forum.

I will post further information on this forum when the base is set up. Like I say nothing official, but this game will always be in my heart <3

Roy644
10th Apr 2016, 10:03
Some people say there is no solution at the moment to save the game, but I don't agree with this.

As I already said, the players have, for months, given their opinion on things that needed to be changed (leagues, cash prizes, monetization, launcher, put the priority on bug fixes etc...), but they were never listened. And now, without even trying to improve what THEY messed up, they just quit giving us the poor excuse "lack of players" which is ironic because they did nothing to retain said players.

So yeah, it simply feels like a big finger in the faces of people that love the game and tried to give their feedback. It's their job to try to repair their mistake, and the solution is not just to cowardly quit the ship. There is so much more to try to improve Nosgoth, everyone gave their suggestions regarding the issue, and there are a lot of viable solutions.

But hey, if tens of thousands of dollars cash prizes and RNG crates didn't retain players, what will?? Marketing in video games is just sad these days...

Oghamsmith
10th Apr 2016, 10:04
Morning everyone,

The website will most likely be taken offline alongside the forum, yes.

Regarding the Rahab concept art. It being unfinished is problematic. We may not necessarily have released the class looking like the current concept art whatsoever. This isn't a case of a few points of detail needing to be adjusted. It's possible that a major rework of the entire aesthetic could have happened before release. The notion that everyone's memory of this long-awaited class would be of an aesthetic that may upset quite a lot of people, and may not have even seen the light of day; is one that sits uneasy with us.

Zarxiel93
10th Apr 2016, 11:07
Morning everyone,

The website will most likely be taken offline alongside the forum, yes.

Regarding the Rahab concept art. It being unfinished is problematic. We may not necessarily have released the class looking like the current concept art whatsoever. This isn't a case of a few points of detail needing to be adjusted. It's possible that a major rework of the entire aesthetic could have happened before release. The notion that everyone's memory of this long-awaited class would be of an aesthetic that may upset quite a lot of people, and may not have even seen the light of day; is one that sits uneasy with us.

Please change your mind, we love this game, look how much signatures in 30 hours more or less.
https://www.change.org/p/squareenix-don-t-shut-the-nosgoth-servers-down-on-may-31st?recruiter=524140709&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-no_msg

Just give to the game a last chance, fix the bugs, remove the launcher ecc... and be sure old players will came back and new players will join. Trying will not cost nothing, if the game will stay alive you don't need to give back the money, you can use them for the game (NO CASH PRIZE FOR LEAGUE PLEASE, THIS IS DUMB)

netmota
10th Apr 2016, 11:56
I must say that Square Enix decision for sure was not easy, not easy for anyone especialy consirering the circunstances and risks that compromisses any part envolved. Not only is a decision that once again leaves an open wound. I believe that would be the greatest desire of everyone that this product was competitive in the market up because it was unique and would have all the elements to the absolute success. But such was not the case. Something went wrong in some part and as result the product is closed.

Now were facing a new time and a new hope. Its time to grow up forget the wounds and hurts and wait for better days and better game experiences.

TheGamer1992
10th Apr 2016, 12:04
I will play the bejeezus out of it for the next two months (assuming I can get past the launcher and party server errors anyway). After that I will steer clear of any games with Psyonix's or Square-Enix's names on them. Here's hoping SE sells the LoK IP to a publisher/developer that actually wants to do something with it.

This ^

netmota
10th Apr 2016, 12:14
lol i think Cristal Dynamics continue to be the most competent developer team to assume any Project related to the legacy of kain franshise... they already prove that in the past and they could have the know how to do it once again. Was not by a random chance that they won the rights to embark and reinvent the tomb raider franshise.

sanjithecat
10th Apr 2016, 13:45
@oghamsmith

atleast give us a last nosgoth community stream or something. if that is to much to ask, atleast join a conversation with the discord server or anything.

if the game is dead, it may be so :(
but i can't accept that you just tell us "ultimately its audience hasn’t grown enough to sustain ongoing operations. "
You know as much as we do, that this game was far from being completly broken or dead, it didn't even get the chance to launch.


we, the community, atleast deserve to know what has been really going on.

i remember your ambition when you first joined the nosgoth team. please, do your last thing, not as a psyonix or SE member, but as a guys who cared for his community and speak to us away from the forum and square enix or whoevers eyes.


in addition: the thing that makes me most sad is that this was a way to rash decision, i remember the interviews from SE and Psyonix, not even a month ago, where you were all excited about the BM update and the release of the game and so on.

a few stepbacks and maybe a few dollars not earned are the reason to cancel such a unique and wonderfull game. that is so sad, the corporate world is making me sick and now it even affects my gaming.

i may not know much about gaming development or gaming marketing for that reason, but what i know for sure is that if you encounter stepbacks, giving up is the weakest and worst thing to do.

but the decision was probably made by some dude who looks at numbers and just writes something off. without thinking twice about a community that deeply loves the game and are passionate about it.

and i never had to experience something like this, but i can tell you one thing now: it kinda hurts.

best regards, a passionate fan of the game.

Roy644
10th Apr 2016, 15:50
@oghamsmith
if the game is dead, it may be so :(
but i can't accept that you just tell us "ultimately its audience hasn’t grown enough to sustain ongoing operations. "
You know as much as we do, that this game was far from being completly broken or dead, it didn't even get the chance to launch.


we, the community, atleast deserve to know what has been really going on.



I agree so much with this. One month earlier, the devs were proud to announce in an interview that the game was coming close to release and that they had so many things planned for Nosgoth. Now, out of nowhere, the player-base is suddenly not big enough. We're not brainless puppets guys, you can at least give us the real reason(s). The game wasn't out of beta and was never advertised but you decided to stop everything without even trying. You can at least respect your players after giving them the finger with this announcement...

Lord_Aevum
10th Apr 2016, 17:07
There are a few more insights on the situation available here (https://www.reddit.com/r/nosgoth/comments/4e0dbv/okay_guys_question_time/d1wj047) for whoever is interested.

Ysanoire
10th Apr 2016, 17:54
I don't really understand. Nearly every post trying to sum up the game's most important problems is the same - the game needed to have its bugs fixed and monetization model needed to be made attractive. I don't think I saw a single review saying the game is uninteresting or boring, except maybe from LoK fans that are simply not into pvp multiplayer. The content, the gameplay were making people want to play it. But the people actually in charge were blind to all this?

Roy644
10th Apr 2016, 18:19
I don't really understand. Nearly every post trying to sum up the game's most important problems is the same - the game needed to have its bugs fixed and monetization model needed to be made attractive. I don't think I saw a single review saying the game is uninteresting or boring, except maybe from LoK fans that are simply not into pvp multiplayer. The content, the gameplay were making people want to play it. But the people actually in charge were blind to all this?

Exactly. The game had great reviews on Steam (10 000 positive reviews (!!!!) and "only" 1000 daily players, what does that tell you Square Enix ??), great press reviews, and every single one of the friends I introduced to the game loved it and found it refreshing compared to other PvP games. There was a general consensus around the potential of the game DESPITE ALL THE BUGS.

And the potential players are still out there, unaware that this game exists due to poor communication.
And the current players are still there, pissed off to see this decision even though everyone begged Psyonix and Square Enix to change some fundamental things like leagues or crappy monetization.

They have a gold mine under their feet but they fail to realize that THEIR decisions are responsible for the state of the game (even though the state was not as bad as they are trying to tell us). And frankly, I never imagined that so many people will be so deeply saddened by this decision and that so many people would voice their opposition to this decision. That must ring some bells over at Square Enix... The cancellation of a dying game would never have caused such a strong reaction from the player-base. The game was not dying for christ sake!

Finaeous
10th Apr 2016, 18:37
I have the day off today, so I figured I'd play as much Nosgoth as possible. Unfortunately, half the time I try to launch the game I get the black screen or bad gateway launcher errors. When I do get past the launcher, I can't get into a game because I then get the party server error. So not a single game played so far today, despite multiple attempts to do so.

Nosgoth didn't fail, but it's publisher and developer certainly failed it.

The game population was small because the game was never advertised or marketed in any meaningful way.

The already small population shrank because of the creation and failure to fix so many game-breaking bugs that literally make it impossible to even launch or attempt to play the game. I mean, if people literally cannot play your game, what do you think that's going to do for the population?

If a new player downloaded the game and experienced what I've been experiencing today, do you think they'd stick with it or just say "screw it"?

Vampmaster
10th Apr 2016, 19:16
There are a few more insights on the situation available here (https://www.reddit.com/r/nosgoth/comments/4e0dbv/okay_guys_question_time/d1wj047) for whoever is interested.

Since I don't have an account on reddit, I'll leave my response here.

@Oghamsmith, it seems very much like that decision was made about a week or two after the beast master patch was released. Around that week articles showed up showing people the new class and talking about moving into release. Some left right away and others stuck around to finish league, but for most of us, this was a temporary leave to de-stress after the issue with league point (which wasn't merely a display problem) and just like the last time a class was introduced we were anticipating that the game would return to normal in the following weeks.

If the above is accurate, then you've shut the game down over some feedback that although justified, does not represent the overall reception of the game. I gave warnings that people might not want to come back if the game became this broken soon after release, but that was because of fears of the Rahabim patch causing the same scale of issues as the beast master one did.

Many people who had played the game in alpha and beta left because they didn't want to play in an unfinished state and would have given it a second shot as long as it was stable on release and didn't have any more disastrous patches like we just had.

Dispite what you said about not making the decision lightly, it does seem like a very rash one. You were afterall discussing release right upto that patch.

barthez36663
10th Apr 2016, 19:28
Damn i just recently came back to gaming after two months break and what i ound out? That my favourite and only mutliplayer game i play in my favourite lore is getting ceased... I almost teared up, i love this game so much. Its bs I feel cheated by devs and by square enix, once again normal people are victims of corporate machine looking blindly on numbers on paper. Honestly you got so much feedback from the communitty but you ignored it and slowly you killed every aspect of it, you killed esl and made some biggest groups quit, stupid league prizes ideas, old bugs, terrible chests system and why in the love of god you never advertised this game? STill it was one of the most amazing gameplay ideas I saw. It was almost perfect. Just fix those things which are no big deal if you just listen and read the forum. We expected a release to public and we got this... Look how popular just this thread is, cancelling is stupid, maybe just put it on hold or make it pay to play if fast money is what you look for. Dont kill this game or we will riot

Varulven
10th Apr 2016, 19:53
Nummus imperatis.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPr9rBuxFMc

It's all about Mammon.

GenFeelGood
10th Apr 2016, 20:56
@Oghamsmith

We are aware that anything we see regarding the Rahabim might not be anything like what it would have been if it was finished; and it is unlikely that any of it would anger us or set a false precedent for future Rahabim designs on other LoK related projects. Many of us spent a lot of time on the Rahabim Idea Thread, brainstorming and reaching a general consensus on what we'd like to see. We just want to see how close it was to that, no matter the stage of development it was in.

Master-Antonio
10th Apr 2016, 21:34
This game is the best.
Really fun, with a big room for improvement. we never seen a game so fun and with a new gameplay, a great novelty. And it is therefore unfortunate turn a beautiful project like this. After 2 years of development and so much to work. WE LOVE NOSGOTH. Dont close.

ParadoxicalOmen
10th Apr 2016, 21:35
Nummus imperatis.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPr9rBuxFMc

It's all about Mammon.

Awesome band.
But ye...sadly you're right

rdlady
10th Apr 2016, 21:42
Please can you just make Nosgoth downloadable so we can create private servers and play private matches?
This has been one of my favorite games. But I think it lost popularity just because of a series of bad business decisions, like they put a lot of money in the leagues but did not fix many of the bugs that have been bothering us for so long (matches that never start, Nosgoth crashing, can't invite friends, FPS crazily dropping, etc etc etc).

ParadoxicalOmen
10th Apr 2016, 21:46
Please can you just make Nosgoth downloadable so we can create private servers and play private matches?

The problem is the private servers aren't hosted by players...they're just regular servers available for the players to make private games.

But i get your idea, and i agree with you...even made a thread:
http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=188555&p=2209569#post2209569

wrace0
11th Apr 2016, 01:41
barthez36663
Look how popular just this thread is, cancelling is stupid, maybe just put it on hold or make it pay to play if fast money is what you look for. Dont kill this game or we will riot
200 posts on the official SE-forum in 3 days with the players base of 20k every day?
Yeah, this thread (about cancelling Nosgoth) is REALLY popular. :cool:

Harmaatukka
11th Apr 2016, 01:45
So sorry for the bad engine choice, there's not a single competitive FPS/TPS game that succeeded on UE3.

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

harmless-violet
11th Apr 2016, 01:50
"ultimately its audience hasn’t grown enough to sustain ongoing operations."

You know, I'm trying to kiss Nosgoth goodbye by playing it, but the launcher isn't letting me in. It hasn't all day. Sometimes it does if I leave it alone and come back, but it's been all day.

I keep coming back to that line. I remember how every time Nosgoth's player base would start to grow, a disruption to playing or an unfixed bug would crush it.

I'm still sad over this. It feels like such a waste. The dynamics are good, the countering classes work well against each other, the attacks have good synergy, the maps are excellent to just wander around in looking... it's so good except for the bugs that always chewed up its wings.

Probably won't get to play today. Oh, Nosgoth.

Gugulug5000
11th Apr 2016, 08:30
Regarding the Rahab concept art. It being unfinished is problematic. We may not necessarily have released the class looking like the current concept art whatsoever. This isn't a case of a few points of detail needing to be adjusted. It's possible that a major rework of the entire aesthetic could have happened before release. The notion that everyone's memory of this long-awaited class would be of an aesthetic that may upset quite a lot of people, and may not have even seen the light of day; is one that sits uneasy with us.

So just say "this could have been really, really different" when you reveal it. You think we can possibly be more disappointed by an incomplete concept art than we already are? Frankly, I'm going to be more disappointed, insulted, and pissed off if we never get to see the Rahabim concept art. I'm already starting to hate Square Enix because of this horribly stupid move, I don't need another reason to make me never want to buy any of their games ever again.

Square Enix needs to do us all a favor and sell the Legacy of Kain series (and everything done with Nosgoth so far) to someone with half a brain. Based off their track record though, they'd probably ask for several billion dollars and then be surprised when no one buys it.

Also, I want to make it clear that I think the various community managers we've had have done a great job, and the art team that worked on Nosgoth should get put to work on a single player title. I'm just pissed at the the idiots in charge of it all.

LOFO1993
11th Apr 2016, 12:35
I've NEVER seen a game with such potential being wasted as badly as this one. And I have seen and played a LOT of games.

There are two possible explanations here that I can think of:

1. Someone at Square Enix, with no idea how to manage a game of this kind, model and scope, decided they knew what was the right thing to do, and forced it onto everybody else downwards - from Psyonix to the players. So at some point the money that was meant to be spent for developing the game, hiring bugfixers etc. was partly cut and partly redirected for league prizes, until the game became so broken it was literally unplayable. At that point, rather than risking even more money on the project to fix everything, the game was canned altogether.

2. Square Enix didn't really care of the game, and had zero pretensions from it. They basically told Psyonix "if you can make money out of it go ahead, we'll just take a small share because we own the IP". So Psyonix actually really tried... until it was obvious Rocket League was the way to go for them. From that moment on, almost all the developers in the studio were moved to the other title, and Nosgoth was left almost without any programmers working on it, until it simply broke beyond the point of redemption.


It's also possible something in between these two scenarios actually happened, but the point is, somebody **** up the project really, really bad.

It would be cool to know the truth, because otherwise we'll be left with the benefit of considering both of you just as guilty.

Zerobot1
11th Apr 2016, 14:27
"ultimately its audience hasn’t grown enough to sustain ongoing operations."

You know, I'm trying to kiss Nosgoth goodbye by playing it, but the launcher isn't letting me in. It hasn't all day. Sometimes it does if I leave it alone and come back, but it's been all day.

Make sure you're not running Steam, the launcher or the game exe as admin in compatibility options. In my case I had a blank launcher or party server error until I'd disabled run as admin on them all.

Oghamsmith
11th Apr 2016, 15:40
Since I don't have an account on reddit, I'll leave my response here.

@Oghamsmith, it seems very much like that decision was made about a week or two after the beast master patch was released. Around that week articles showed up showing people the new class and talking about moving into release. Some left right away and others stuck around to finish league, but for most of us, this was a temporary leave to de-stress after the issue with league point (which wasn't merely a display problem) and just like the last time a class was introduced we were anticipating that the game would return to normal in the following weeks.

If the above is accurate, then you've shut the game down over some feedback that although justified, does not represent the overall reception of the game. I gave warnings that people might not want to come back if the game became this broken soon after release, but that was because of fears of the Rahabim patch causing the same scale of issues as the beast master one did.

...

The decline in player numbers after the Beastmaster update didn't play a roll in the decision. Guys, I'm sorry; I mentioned before that there would be some points that I can't elaborate upon. I can't go any further into the "why" of this decision.

On a semi-related note, some people seem to think that we're blaming the players/community. That's not the case at all. There are many reasons why the audience that a game attracts isn't enough to sustain ongoing operations. Many of you have already listed quite a few. Nearly none of the reasons are related to the game's players, and those that are, are only tangentially. I want to make it very clear that we are not blaming the actions of Nosgoth's community.

kLauE187
11th Apr 2016, 17:19
It's about money, not a silly petition.

netmota
11th Apr 2016, 17:39
This project started badly and ended badly. pure and simple. Nobody begged for any of this. This was simply an idea of ​​rescuing something that was already early lost. We watched a boastful patch soon start to hurt the whole community of fans. The community has an exemplary service in an attempt to recover an idea that alone does not make any sense. I realy think the Psyonix as embarking on a huge risk having creating an uncharacteristic idea undermining all the legacy fãns as well as a series that revolutionized in time, the market for video games. It is therefore required much more than a patch for a series that is dormant, and Nosgoth not revealed himself to live up to this responsibility. The idea of ​​an online game could have been very successful if the art department and leaders had in mind that this saga is a Gothic saga and requires features and perfect reflections precisely that characterize the world of Nosgoth. Apart from that, the game itself was poor in the way that the whole purpose of the game was only winning teams. Not even have any argument for the purpose of the game up because in general no one knows who wins the war for Nosgoth. It's a mixed feeling of emptiness that removed many of the players up because in general it was a war that culminated in nothing. Many players just want to play this ... Yes, because it's fun. We love to eat fresh meat as well as bring down the bloodsucking brady bunch and it is only for this reason that many claim to save the game. We will miss this. Nothing more.

Sasha_Vykos
11th Apr 2016, 19:23
The decline in player numbers after the Beastmaster update didn't play a roll in the decision. Guys, I'm sorry; I mentioned before that there would be some points that I can't elaborate upon. I can't go any further into the "why" of this decision.

On a semi-related note, some people seem to think that we're blaming the players/community. That's not the case at all. There are many reasons why the audience that a game attracts isn't enough to sustain ongoing operations. Many of you have already listed quite a few. Nearly none of the reasons are related to the game's players, and those that are, are only tangentially. I want to make it very clear that we are not blaming the actions of Nosgoth's community.

so we must assume that there is actually something more to elaborate. You guys destroyed a game with an incredible potential, u are shutting down the server when 1k players are playing daily (with peak of 2k players) and most of them has hundreds/ thousands of hours.. don't you think that at this point a bit of clarity should be appreciate? not that matters that much.

I also have to assume that if the beastmaster update did not have a role, u decided to close the game some time before it.. and all the things u kept saying for weeks talking about new content, full release etc were all completely false and u kew u were telling us lies? I'm just wondering.

I'm also asking myself if u really think to have understood the real reasons of this failure..do you think that all the community had some rights when we tried to give u hundreds of feedbacks and u guys decided to kept doing the opposite every time?

Roy644
11th Apr 2016, 19:46
I also have to assume that if the beastmaster update did not have a role, u decided to close the game some time before it.. and all the things u kept saying for weeks talking about new content, full release etc were all completely false and u kew u were telling us lies? I'm just wondering.

At this point, it's really taking players for brainless sheeps. There are 2 possible explanations : either they knew about it before BM update while they kept talking about release, new content and exciting stuff, or they had no idea the game would be closed until very recently and took a rushed decision... You really need to work more on your PR cause this just sounds really really bad, and it just looks like you took us players for fools either way. Basically, we've got no valid reason and a questionable management of the communication regarding new content followed by sudden shut down announcement in the form of a big big finger in our faces.

Nightmare_Jay
11th Apr 2016, 20:13
I can't keep silent anymore.
I'll miss that part of the post where I would ask what the hell were you doing and go straight to the point.
Only a month ago you were talking about your plans for the future, about what you were going to do with the game and that it would be released soon. You've released the new class and the map. And now you are saying that the game will be closed without any clear reasons.
So the outrage of the community is rightly.
And what's now?
First time you said that the game would be closed because the online was low. Too few people interested in the game. Here we can see proof that it's not so.
Now you talk that
"some people seem to think that we're blaming the players/community. That's not the case at all". But you refuse to tell us why and tell us general phrases. You change your official opinion every day and cannot decide! I want to say that all the things you said about the reasons of this decision sounds like an incredible drivel. No, it is an incredible drivel.
So you close the game. OK, I don't agree with that but I can try to understand. But I can't understand you lack of respect of your community. Tell us the truth or don't say anything.

netmota
11th Apr 2016, 20:46
lol OMG this is ridiculous... you guys seems my neighbors trying to know wtf is happening in my house! Guys we are customers... we are consumers. they will not tell you anything about this outcome because in the moment they have much more to worry about than to worry about what they allready lost. In fact... everyone knows why this game havent legs to walk on... seems youre beeing sleeping all these months.

Roy644
11th Apr 2016, 21:00
lol OMG this is ridiculous... you guys seems my neighbors trying to know wtf is happening in my house! Guys we are customers... we are consumers. they will not tell you anything about this outcome. In fact... everyone knows why this game havent legs to walk on... seems youre beeing sleeping all these months.

lol OMG this is ridiculous... Your neighbor is not your client. He didn't pay you for a product that you promised to him. He didn't make suggestions for the said product while you ignored him. Learn to make well constructed argument and come back later to make your point, don't flame for the sake of trolling. If costumers always sit idly by when companies take people for brainless retards, we wouldn't have so many greedy companies thinking they can do whatever they want without consequences. "Of course Square Enix ! Cancel the only game remotely innovating you have because *insert reason here* ! I want a new Hitman/Tomb Raider faster !"

netmota
11th Apr 2016, 21:23
lol OMG this is ridiculous... Your neighbor is not your client. He didn't pay you for a product that you promised to him. He didn't make suggestions for the said product while you ignored him. Learn to make well constructed argument and come back later to make your point, don't flame for the sake of trolling. If costumers always sit idly by when companies take people for brainless retards, we wouldn't have so many greedy companies thinking they can do whatever they want without consequences. "Of course Square Enix ! Cancel the only game remotely innovating you have because *insert reason here* ! I want a new Hitman/Tomb Raider faster !"

My dear, I was banned from the game when totaled over 2,000 hours of playing long after the game been released in open beta. Participated from the beginning in the closed alpha and beta, I created a page on which is followed by about 2,500 people where invited the largest number of people boarding the game and mutch more work made on the "backend" i do not even have to talk about all the muscle i've have formed... and all the dedication took a brave kick from the game. If this exemple is not enough to demonstrate that i know what i'm talking about. So keep in expectation of getting any valid response. So do not give me value judgments. Im not anyone, just an amateur, and im glad for what i've made for this game even if nobody knows. I can tell you a bit plus, i have some know how in how to deseminate some popularity. And i can tell you i was in mind to make something independet to promove the game to a larger scale. unfortunately I gave up the idea after get banned and everything else, and let me be and appreciate just how far this was going.

Vampmaster
11th Apr 2016, 22:41
I wonder if it was growth within a very specific group they were looking for. Like the gamers who make a living from competitive gaming and are famous for doing so. Maybe they gambled everything those types doing most of the promotion for them.

Roy644
11th Apr 2016, 22:51
My dear, I was banned from the game when totaled over 2,000 hours of playing long after the game been released in open beta. Participated from the beginning in the closed alpha and beta, I created a page on which is followed by about 2,500 people where invited the largest number of people boarding the game and mutch more work made on the "backend" i do not even have to talk about all the muscle i've have formed... and all the dedication took a brave kick from the game. If this exemple is not enough to demonstrate that i know what i'm talking about. So keep in expectation of getting any valid response. So do not give me value judgments. Im not anyone, just an amateur, and im glad for what i've made for this game even if nobody knows. I can tell you a bit plus, i have some know how in how to deseminate some popularity. And i can tell you i was in mind to make something independet to promove the game to a larger scale. unfortunately I gave up the idea after get banned and everything else, and let me be and appreciate just how far this was going.

Fair enough, and great for you mate. But does that give you the right to come here and be unpleasant with people still caring ? How does the fact that people still want to save the game and get some real explanations affects your life ? Come on, there's absolutely no reason to come lecturing people on what they should or should not do. You think the game should've died a long time ago ? Great, you had what you wanted, you technically don't even need to be here right now. I don't even see why players should go against each other in the current situation... I must be wrong ! Oh and keep in mind that you were the first trying to lecture people with your previous post, telling them what they should do as customers.


I wonder if it was growth within a very specific group they were looking for. Like the gamers who make a living from competitive gaming and are famous for doing so. Maybe they gambled everything those types doing most of the promotion for them.

Quite possible. But still a silly decision for a game in beta, expected to change and be buggy as hell sometimes.

netmota
11th Apr 2016, 23:32
Roy644
And how you consider to be made viable a game in which the members of the team was the first to split and abandon it? It does not sound weird to you have been a hustle there? This was already a sign that when the house is burning around everyone runs away. If you want to enable the game, i'm all in agreement. But the mess at hands than know what to do with Nosgoth. And if possible that take as long as care. Because the game as it stands just because is a whim to play... is not good at all !! In that point we will face exactly the same problem with this game!

I*quite frankly and*in my*humble opinion*about these*events*can only*have*one*reason*that*as has been said*allready has nothing to be with*the*community or*with the players*which is perfectly*understandable*if we consider*that this*is*an internal matter*and*closely linked*to the entities*involved.*There was*especially*a*strange moment*and*unnoticed*in the midst of this*situation, and*I believe*other risks of*other*natures*overlap*and*have been involved*for this*outcome*with*aggravating*the decline*of players*it was*a*great way to*excuse*since*they're not saying*anything that is not*a lie.*Anyway*...

Ygdrasel
12th Apr 2016, 01:32
I*quite frankly and*in my*humble opinion*about these*events*can only*have*one*reason*that*as has been said*allready has nothing to be with*the*community or*with the players*which is perfectly*understandable*if we consider*that this*is*an internal matter*and*closely linked*to the entities*involved.*There was*especially*a*strange moment*and*unnoticed*in the midst of this*situation, and*I believe*other risks of*other*natures*overlap*and*have been involved*for this*outcome*with*aggravating*the decline*of players*it was*a*great way to*excuse*since*they're not saying*anything that is not*a lie.*Anyway*...

Quit typing like that.


I want to make it very clear that we are not blaming the actions of Nosgoth's community.

Of course not. We didn't fail to advertise, ignore all the feedback and stick with an awful pricing model. :mad2:
That's probably on the devs and Square Enix in some shared measure.

At least release the Rahabim concept, whatever you have of it. Better SOME memory than none at all. :\

Roy644
12th Apr 2016, 07:40
Roy644
And how you consider to be made viable a game in which the members of the team was the first to split and abandon it? It does not sound weird to you have been a hustle there? This was already a sign that when the house is burning around everyone runs away. If you want to enable the game, i'm all in agreement. But the mess at hands than know what to do with Nosgoth. And if possible that take as long as care. Because the game as it stands just because is a whim to play... is not good at all !! In that point we will face exactly the same problem with this game!

I still think that even if they made crappy decisions and decided to leave the ship, they're still people with thinking capabilities and they can eventually see the silliness of all of this. I know it's not likely, but what the hell, the game is dead anyway if we don't try something.

corpus_callosum
12th Apr 2016, 08:25
Lol, at last. I wonder, when you will be fed up with fans' money and close the shop.
Bb nosgoth, you were born dead.

You preferred to ignore the community's needs and not fixing the critical bugs and community preferred to ignore your handiwork of a game. How the hell game can be competitive if it does not allow to compete? Yes, balancing was pretty good, but you freaking ignore people's pleads to fix gamebreaking bugs FOR SEVERAL MONTHS! And pretend that the bugs are not there.
You managed to make 10 years old game engine to lag on new pcs! And why the hell community should support you?

The fans thought that if this will be succesfull, they'l get a LOK single-player game at some point.
Congratulations, it will be decades before publisher will allow any continuation for this glorious series, thanks to you.
I hope you realise that.

And yes, i have a moral right to say all this mentioned above, i used to buy some founder's pack.
Disappointment.

Ygdrasel
12th Apr 2016, 09:17
And yes, i have a moral right to say all this mentioned above, i used to buy some founder's pack.

I'm going to just go ahead and point out that buying something doesn't give you moral rights and that entire notion is asinine.

But really, it was already over a decade since Defiance came out. However this ends, they still revived it for a time when it otherwise would have stayed buried entirely.

Ygdrasel
12th Apr 2016, 10:03
No,they didn't revive it. They dug the corpse out,**** ,and buried it back again.

Yeah, yeah, you hate the game, fine. But they still revived the setting regardless.

Roy644
12th Apr 2016, 10:12
I understand disappointed people that expected a new solo LoK game when Nosgoth was announced. But those people should try to see Nosgoth as a complete different game with the LoK universe as a cool excuse to make an awesome multi-player game. The fact that it's not what was expected at first doesn't automatically make it a bad game. It's different and it could've been a great success because the LoK universe was preserved and the gameplay was innovating and addictive. The recipe is still awesome, even though it's not the expected solo LoK experience

TheGamer1992
12th Apr 2016, 10:20
Yeah, yeah, you hate the game, fine. But they still revived the setting regardless.

You presume too much,if you were keeping track of this forum,you'd see i said i loved the game with all its flaws.

On a side note:

Full Definition of revive

re·vivedre·viv·ing

intransitive verb

: to return to consciousness or life : become active or flourishing again
transitive verb

1 - to restore to consciousness or life
2 - to restore from a depressed, inactive, or unused state : bring back
3 - to renew in the mind or memory

Since you have a poor definition of the "revive" word,i wanted to help out with that. Since LoK IP is going to be in unused state
again,they obviously didn't revive it.And it wasn't even renewed in any way,since many people have stated themselves they
didn't even know Nosgoth was a part of LoK franchise,or that they never even heard of the game,that's poor marketing for ya,
so yeah,they didn't revive anything per se,they made a game that had nothing in common with LoK franchise besides the lore and
the setting,which half of the fans rejected on first site,and while Nosgoth was nothing like rest of the LoK franchise (story driven singleplayer experience ) you cant deny that it was a quick cash grab from Psyonix and Square Enix,hence all the outrage,
and disappointment from the fans of the game. The game didn't last three years,and no
one can justify that...no one.

Ygdrasel
12th Apr 2016, 10:41
[look at me making such an effort to be a **** pedant for no actual point]

:hmm: Uh huh. Cool. Meanwhile, in reality, they returned the setting to life via Nosgoth (revived it) and brought the series overall into fresh and renewed interest and memory amongst old fans and some new (revived it) so you can cut that nonsense out.

I can absolutely deny it was a cash grab. Cash grabs don't go after obscure titles with niche fanbases. There's not a lot of cash to be grabbed there, y'know. The outrage here currently isn't about a cash grab. It's about garbage mismanagement and taking the game they enjoy away from them.

And anyone who didn't know it was a part of LoK never played LoK. It's called Nosgoth.

Roy644
12th Apr 2016, 10:47
This is something I don't understand. They seem to had ambitious expectations for a game inspired by an old serie that didn't have a tremendous amount of fans. But they somehow expected much more than the current player-base without EVER trying to advertise the game properly. Don't get me started on the focus on competitive scene, crappy monetization and stupid leagues with cash prizes... Were interns in charge of Nosgoth's marketing or something?

TheGamer1992
12th Apr 2016, 10:59
"There's not a lot of cash to be grabbed there, y'know."

Im not even going to refer to the first part of your reply,since you still don't understand the meaning behind the
word "revive" haha,you'll get there,take your time.On the cash grab thing,yeah,tell that to people who bought
founders pack with a straight face if you can,these guys are getting flamed for all the right reasons, nothing will excuse them from doing a poor job with
Nosgoth,and nothing will excuse Square Enix for failing us yet again. Cant take the criticism? Well that's quite unfortunate,but you
failed miserably,so suck it up.

Vampmaster
12th Apr 2016, 11:07
I'm sick of this "niche franchise" rubbish. Developers who worked on the series always was it's the one they always get asked about and the one CD and SE (the western studios) are constantly being asked about when a new one will be made. Defiance didn't meet expectations because all AAA games are considered failures if they don't reach COD status. Many LOK fans *like* to think of themselves as a niche group because the think it means they're more intellectual than everybody else.

Something changed over the past few weeks. SE says it wasn't because players who temporarily left to wait for bug fixes, so what else could it have been? Whatever it was, it seems incredibly misguided. The only alternatives I can imagine are that either there were a specific group of players that they thought everyone else would follow to this game who they failed to win over or single individual just flipped out all of a sudden or as someone mentioned here, all the talk about moving into release was a lie. The latter seems paranoid, and the former just seems completely focused on only one insignificant part of the big picture.

TheGamer1992
12th Apr 2016, 11:20
Many LOK fans *like* to think of themselves as a niche group because they think it means they're more intellectual than everybody else.

You hit the nail in the head with this one. Kudos to you.

MuShYRoOM
12th Apr 2016, 11:27
.. you cant deny that it was a quick cash grab from Psyonix and Square Enix..

If this game should have been a "quick cash grab" then it wouldn't have been a free2play game without any pay2win-model and they wouldn't have put 60.000$ into leagues in the last 6 months.

Maybe the reason why this game will go offline is because its no "cash grab" like Square Enix was hoping for.

It's really sad, in the past games were developed to bring "fun" to a community, nowadays games are just another new "business area" where only the $$$'s count and when the cash cow is milked or doesnt give enough milk anymore then its time for a new cash cow...

TheGamer1992
12th Apr 2016, 11:53
Maybe the reason why this game will go offline is because its no "cash grab" like Square Enix was hoping for.

It's really sad, in the past games were developed to bring "fun" to a community, nowadays games are just another new "business area" where only the $$$'s count and when the cash cow is milked or doesnt give enough milk anymore then its time for a new cash cow...

Maybe,who knows,but you have a point. I mean,they should have gone the "singleplayer" route and everything would be
fine and dandy,instead of giving us Nosgoth,they should have canned everything,and start from scratch with a new singleplayer
game,and everyone would be pleased...but as it is,Square has an unhealthy realtionship with the community,since this is the
third time LoK franchise got treated badly,but who knows...maybe they'll do something about it,and make things right,
but im not holding my hopes high because if you look at the modern game industry,there isn't much hope to be had.

MuShYRoOM
12th Apr 2016, 12:09
@Gamer1992

tbh i never played a LoK game before, i switched to Nosgoth after 5000h Left4Dead playtime because the mp-gameplay looked similar and I enjoyed it a lot.

netmota
12th Apr 2016, 13:06
this game could have been solved very simply. They had several reasons for abandoning the game. myself as well as many of the early players in the alpha stage began to lose enthusiasm for the game. Wins percentage was calculated according to the final result of a team and not the end result of the individual performance, this could have been solved only by simple calculations. Furthermore, this game needed more convincing than that. For example we have the ability to play and choose the defense of a legion of vampires or human and be given in a general state which category and what kind of classes were achieving greater progress. A lot could have come out of this game if we had not been concerned only in resolving balance issues, although the advanced matchmaking was a wrong choice in comparison to the previous existing matchmaking. There was also a huge lack in the way in how we could develop the potential of a class by adding more features or less according to the individual profile, in a comprehensive analysis this game was very limited and very poor in supply and only relied on teams against teams and a game that is stated as a vampire war against humans and not offer exactly what this game claims about.... is at least very unusual.

ProDoctoR1987
12th Apr 2016, 15:25
OHNO !!!!!!!!!! 534 hours I have put in this game, so much effort/fun !

I can't beleive the are cancelling it, yes there are still bugs but all in all I always had fun games, just the league's where a little upsetting sometimes.

BYE BYE Blood Rank :(

Bazielim
12th Apr 2016, 18:00
Just a quick reminder ladies and gentlemen, while Nosgoth has been cancelled, the Terms of Use (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/announcement.php?f=156&a=1) do still apply and the moderators and admins are still here.
We understand this is a difficult time for people and that many will have strong feelings about the subect, but please when expressing them can you try to keep them civil and within the TOU?
Thanks guys

Roy644
12th Apr 2016, 20:04
One of the community members of our game made a really interesting video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR7BWyvzi64) about the cancellation of Nosgoth, this is exactly the feedback I read everywhere, from everyone. Guys, watch this, please ! You have the most important aspects of what we consider as a failure in Nosgoth. And believe me, the reason is NOT that people didn't like the game to stick around...

Tunnel_VisionX
12th Apr 2016, 20:19
My thoughts about this.
Square enix tried to make a Dead sun game, but for some reason failed. In order to earn at least some money for done work (without selling rights to a franchise) they took the multiplayer part of Dead sun, called it Nosgoth, and released as F2P beta. As they earned some money from chests/skins (almost for free, you know they didn't fix anything, their efforts were almost zero) and decided that no more money will come, they just ceased Nosgoth. Square enix haven't even planned to release the game, there is no rahabim concept, they planned from the beggining to end it like this.
This is just a guess, but we all know that it is not completely unreasonably, and since developers don't tell us why they exactly shuted Nosgoth down, maybe my guess is even possible.

enkaku-silence-
12th Apr 2016, 22:23
It has been a pleasure to build this game with your help, but ultimately its audience hasn’t grown enough to sustain ongoing operations.

From an interview in March 2016:

An issue I noticed while playing Nosgoth this weekend was long queue timers, especially for “New Recruits,” and many games ended up being imbalanced. How do you plan to address this system when the game comes out of early access?

Bill: The issue there is largely one of player count. Until we come out of early access we’re not focused on pulling in a lot of new players. When we do there will be more people to match against. [...]

Explain.


Source: http://www.mmogames.com/gamearticles/nosgoth-developer-interview/

Roy644
12th Apr 2016, 22:33
Wow never saw this interview. This is beginning to look really bad for Square Enix... It's infuriating honestly. You're not even hiding the fact that you clearly **** on your player-base. Sorry for the harsh language and tone but you need to realize how bad this looks from a consumer point of view

enkaku-silence-
12th Apr 2016, 23:49
Regarding the Rahab concept art. It being unfinished is problematic. We may not necessarily have released the class looking like the current concept art whatsoever. This isn't a case of a few points of detail needing to be adjusted. It's possible that a major rework of the entire aesthetic could have happened before release. The notion that everyone's memory of this long-awaited class would be of an aesthetic that may upset quite a lot of people, and may not have even seen the light of day; is one that sits uneasy with us.

Concept art? Unfinished?
Eric was talking about her look, her various skins and even how she moves around the map in March!



How does the upcoming Rahabim vampire class fit into the game?

Eric: If you look at Rahab himself, from the original games, he was very amphibious and where Nosgoth is set we needed to push it back in the timeline, so we couldn’t go completely fish-like. We did add in elements of that, which kind of give hints as to where the future progression of the clan is going to be.

So for her, some of the obvious ones would be (of course she’s still a general humanoid) slight gills in various places and some of the various skins have her mouth pushed back to give more of a fish or reptile look. Other than that, all of her skins up to this point lean themselves towards a very mobile, light fighter. She’s very lightly armored, which works wonderfully when you see her moving around the map. She’s still a vampire, so there’s still some elements of it which are very ornamental.


This is getting beyond ridiculous.

Source: http://www.mmogames.com/gamearticles/nosgoth-developer-interview/

Grisamentum
13th Apr 2016, 00:22
The internet never forgets, Oghamsmith. Trust.

netmota
13th Apr 2016, 00:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guNu0chjVgo

Cazabrow
13th Apr 2016, 02:14
This is incredibly disappointing. You made a game that has actual decent gameplay that I've always come back to, and now instead of promoting it properly you just shut it down? Really?

I found out about this game from a stranger i met at University and outside actively searching for it found no advertisement or promotion of it anywhere at all. Pretty much every player in-game agreed with me that with proper advertising people who are addicted to crap like TF2 would have shifted right over if they just only HEARD about it.

This just sucks guys, it could've been way better if people knew it existed.
(Keeping in mind that I have continously played it with a ping of no lower than 150 ever because no one plays oceanic - that's how good it was)

Paradoks_db
13th Apr 2016, 02:17
Apparently it's been more than a year since I last logged in. I do think however that this situation deserves my comment, even though I will be mostly repeating what I've said years ago. First, I would like to express my sincere sympathy to all people, who played the game, spent countless hours on it and enjoyed it. I was not a part of your group.

Please excuse my blunt tone, but I've always been honest about my thoughts about Nosgoth. I've been here when the first pieces of information about War for Nosgoth (as it was known then) started to leak. I was here when it was announced. From the beginning I've seen Nosgoth as a project doomed to fail but I honestly did not expect that it would die before it officially starts. By reading the comments I also admit that it apparently failed for reasons other than I had had predicted.
I expressed my concerns about how big of a departure it was from its predecessors when it comes to gameplay and target audience. I expressed my criticism about the art style inherited from the abominable Dead Sun. I reluctantly accepted the first and did my best to influence the latter. I stopped caring when it became obvious that no one really cared about what I had to say.

Back in the day I also asked about LAN option for the game and received a clear "no" for answer. Unfortunate, because now that would allow people to keep playing, if only someone had thought about it in advance. Apparently no one considered the possibility of the game's failure... "Remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer".

I have mixed feelings about the whole situation. In a way, I'm glad that it ends this way because I never liked the design decisions behind it and in my opinion it cheapened Legacy of Kain name. That doesn't change the fact that it's heartbreaking seeing my fellow LoK fans in current situation, fans who had other opinion and invested hundreds of hours by playing and providing feedback to make this game better.

I also have to wonder about "too small player-base" statement. The number of people playing is one thing, but it makes you wonder why it is so small when more than 4 million people actually own the game. Of that more than a half actually played it - that's still 2 million people who gave it a chance.

I realise that this is most probably the last wooden stake put in the heart of the franchise. Ironically, because Nosgoth was a huge departure from the franchise's principles. But I've also said that I'd rather see the series resting in peace than its corpse being desecrated, and SE has shown that they have no idea how to handle it - first with (thankfully killed in advance) Dead Sun and later with Nosgoth.


lol i think Cristal Dynamics continue to be the most competent developer team to assume any Project related to the legacy of kain franshise... they already prove that in the past and they could have the know how to do it once again. Was not by a random chance that they won the rights to embark and reinvent the tomb raider franshise.
There is one person left at CD who worked on Soul Reaver 1. Two others who worked on later installments. None of these people is a designer, writer or an artist. Given CD's recent "achievements" in storytelling department (last 2 Tomb Raider games) I'm not sure I want them working on a new LoK, even though gameplay and general reception wise it could prove the best part yet.



What will happen to the forum on www.Nosgoth.com?
The Nosgoth forum will remain online until 14th June 2016, after which it will be taken offline.

Could you elaborate on this? As far as I know Nosgoth forums are part of aggregated Square-Enix forums and as such are independent from Nosgoth.com webpage. So by "taken offline" do you mean actually entirely deleted or, as it was a case in the past Eidos games, simply moved to archive (for example TimeSplitters forums are locked but still available for viewing). The former solution would be unnecessary and somewhat disrespectful to people who have written hundreds of posts providing feedback. Either way, I think that at least some threads from off-topic section could be easily moved to LoK General forum.

Regarding Rahabim concept art not being finished. Soul Reaver and Blood Omen 2 ending credits also display some very early, unfinished and unused drawings and I haven't seen anyone complaining about it. Publishing it is the least you can do right now. A sort of a farewell gift.

Ygdrasel
13th Apr 2016, 04:25
There is one person left at CD who worked on Soul Reaver 1. Two others who worked on later installments. None of these people is a designer, writer or an artist. Given CD's recent "achievements" in storytelling department (last 2 Tomb Raider games) I'm not sure I want them working on a new LoK, even though gameplay and general reception wise it could prove the best part yet.

It doesn't necessarily need to be the same people. Just people who can respect the material. But if they did pull those same people - they weren't writers on it or anything but they worked in the same environment so they should have some grasp of what the series is. And Tomb Raider is an utterly different thing so it's not much use to compare the two. (It's also really good - for Tomb Raider. LoK is a different standard.)

RainaAudron
13th Apr 2016, 11:05
...ultimately its audience hasn’t grown enough to sustain ongoing operations.

From an interview in March 2016:
Bill: The issue there is largely one of player count. Until we come out of early access we’re not focused on pulling in a lot of new players. When we do there will be more people to match against. [...]

Explain.

Very valid point, I would really like to hear an official response to this (I felt, that some darker influence was at work here...).

Vampmaster
13th Apr 2016, 11:15
Very valid point, I would really like to hear an official response to this (I felt, that some darker influence was at work here...).

Perhaps this guy can get them to explain. Obey the dalek, SE!
JYqjcHYTQgQ

Roy644
13th Apr 2016, 11:29
Very valid point, I would really like to hear an official response to this (I felt, that some darker influence was at work here...).

Yup. We can safely assume that this decision had nothing to do with the player count. There is something that we don't know behind the scenes and I don't think the real reason is very glorious... What's even weirder is that they didn't think this through, AT ALL. They knew they did those interviews 3 weeks before the announcement right ? (talking about Rahabim being close to release, talking about the fact they don't want/need focus on player count until full release which was supposedly close (!!!)) They knew that the player-base was really solid and around 1500 daily before the broken BM update right ? No sign of diminishing interest before they broke it themselves. This doesn't make sense.

RainaAudron
13th Apr 2016, 11:46
They knew that the player-base was really solid and around 1500 daily before the broken BM update right ? No sign of diminishing interest before they broke it themselves. This doesn't make sense.
Indeed, that is what is bugging me the most about all this. I think we deserve the truth at least, if all our previous efforts are going to go to waste.

Vampmaster: lol! xD

Roy644
13th Apr 2016, 12:30
Indeed, that is what is bugging me the most about all this. I think we deserve the truth at least, if all our previous efforts are going to go to waste.

I don't think we'll have the truth. Either they'll just wait without saying a word until we stop making too much noise or they'll actually take feedback into account and realize the game isn't dead and change their mind. One of those options is quite more likely unfortunately...

Oh and for those browsing the forums, if you didn't come across those yet :

- the petition to show SE we still care (https://www.change.org/p/squareenix-don-t-shut-the-nosgoth-servers-down-on-may-31st)
- the Legacy of Nosgoth group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/1701397363481015/)
- a great overview of the decision from a fellow player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR7BWyvzi64)

Everyone is welcome to contribute any ideas and to voice their suggestions !

lucinvampire
13th Apr 2016, 12:54
From an interview in March 2016:

From an interview in March 2016:
Originally Posted by mmogames.com
An issue I noticed while playing Nosgoth this weekend was long queue timers, especially for “New Recruits,” and many games ended up being imbalanced. How do you plan to address this system when the game comes out of early access?

Bill: The issue there is largely one of player count. Until we come out of early access we’re not focused on pulling in a lot of new players. When we do there will be more people to match against. [...]
Explain.

Explain.

Source: http://www.mmogames.com/gamearticles/nosgoth-developer-interview/

I think this says it all, a few weeks before they weren't too worried about the playerbase and were talking about release. They said here and they said it in the past that they weren't going to advertise to grow the playerbase until the game was ready to be released, now they would rely on people who were loyal to the game and to keep testing it whilst it is still in Beta.

So I wondered what changed? My minds going through all kinds of conspiracies. I wish we could get a full answer or explanation.

And I urge all the players don’t give up either! Don’t give up the fight for this game if you love it – shout it from the rafters…well all over the internet! AND KEEP PLAYING IT!!!!!!!!!!!

#savenosgoth

SirSleepALot
13th Apr 2016, 12:59
As we draw closer to the end of an era...

RcpeKcBm4CY

TheGamer1992
13th Apr 2016, 13:24
Everyone is welcome to contribute any ideas and to voice their suggestions !

Could they redesign the game,to be played like Quake 3/Live?

I mean,they have it all on in front of them,all of the game assets are at their disposal...

NiamaraWeee
13th Apr 2016, 13:38
When you read stuff from an interview from 14th of March 2016... only a month ago...


Jacob: Beastmaster is definitely coming soon, but there’s still a lot of work to do on the Rahabim. There’s still a bunch of polishing and fixing to do, and a lot of her audio still hasn’t come in. Unfortunately, she’s a long way out.

Bill: Where we go after that will be up to the players. When we come out of Early Access, we’ll have many more players telling us what they want. There’s plenty of room to grow, be it through maps, classes, or the crafting system. Once the core gameplay is done, we can focus on making those plans.

Well... what happened? Ha... reading those interviews now sounds like a big, cruel joke. I mean, they've got to be kidding.

And it will be up to the players? More players telling you what they want? They did all the time and if it was up to us, I think most of us would like to keep playing this game... maybe even see it finally come out of beta and actually release, after having some bugs fixed and whatnot, like you have announced, before completely shutting the game down out of the blue and giving us a contradictory reason...

If there was plenty of room to grow, why the sudden change of mind? If it was about the money for leagues they used, they should've just stopped with it (never should've introduced it to begin with). Gosh... I bet a lot of people would've come back to the game or were simply waiting for some patches to fix stuff, before coming back to play, so they could actually play, since a lot of things weren't working...?

What reminds me... isn't that what a beta is for? To fix stuff and listen to feedback and get it ready for release? So that others, who aren't as patient and willing to test it, will get a polished version and a good experience and stay?

And about ideas...

Hahaha... I know! Gather the best players and challenge the devs to play against them - if they win,
the game will be shut down once and for all; if they lose, they'll give it one more chance! 8D

:lol: :rolleyes:

Obviously just kidding... if only it was that easy. *sigh*

Guess we can only hope that something, somehow, makes Square Enix change their minds or whatever... maybe they might see the potential this game still has... and if not... then well... =/

Vae Victis, I guess...

netmota
13th Apr 2016, 16:40
I think the main problem was related to the last patch where there was a partnership and a marriage in an attempt to get something that is not well esplicit to understand. On the other hand... it was numerous excuses to delay this patch, with the promise to come to solve a slew of problems. in fact the launcher has been demonstrated from the beginning a serious problem for the game dramatically worsened access to the game. although all these evidences have been very clear that this was a bad choice, then comes the desktop version of the launcher which proved to be a total disaster. I can understand the argument given for the laucher could have been offer the game to be played on both platforms but there was not any justification for that, if we consider that was not even in the foreground increasing the number of players. as a spectator of all this, there was in fact in this particular patch very serious faults committed a number of issues there is no excuse. So I think not worth much to speculate on a subject that is evident. at least they could stop being with lame excuses and show us at last how would rahabin figures out.