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Dracoraptor
4th Jul 2002, 14:06
Salt Hog Cargo-Ship (http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Dracoraptor/Space/SaltHogCargoShip/salthogcargoship.png)

SkrasherSmasher
4th Jul 2002, 20:28
What on gods sweet earth would posses you to do something like that?? Make a space station first silly!

AlphaOmega
4th Jul 2002, 22:22
Oooo, now that would be neat... I bet StarTopia Post would want to post a picture of something like that... ;)

MunkeeChum
7th Jul 2002, 14:25
Coool....

I remember a while ago someone posted pictures of Gor warships that they had made with real lego. I think I might still have them somewhere.

Ghyron
8th Jul 2002, 01:23
Erm, doesn't plastic freeze/boil in space? :D

SkrasherSmasher
8th Jul 2002, 01:42
:confused: I wouldn't think so. It should just float through space and eventually hit something and make a plasticy clicky sound when it hits it. Then it would go back and the next thing would make more of a clacky sound, and eventually all the clicky and clacky and you've got Space Pong!!!

AlphaOmega
8th Jul 2002, 02:12
Plastic cannot freeze as it is not a liquid.

Also, it wouldn't make a sound when it hit anything. Sound waves cannot travel in a vacume.

Edit: Boiling is likely though.

Ghyron
8th Jul 2002, 03:38
Originally posted by AlphaOmega
Plastic cannot freeze as it is not a liquid.

Edit: Boiling is likely though.

It would boil(due to lack of pressure), then freeze(due to lack of heat).

AlphaOmega
8th Jul 2002, 06:38
Things do not boil due to lack of pressure, no idea where you got that from.

The melting is possible depending on where it was, if something is in direct view of the sun (from our distance) it gets quite hot.

Ghyron
8th Jul 2002, 16:12
Eh, lack of pressure will boil objects.

Boiling water in a vacuum (http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/section/Solids_Liquids_and_Gases/States_of_Matter/976072539.htm)


Some Q/A Science Website:
"The boiling point for a liquid will also drop at lower pressures. In fact, you can actually get a liquid to boil at room temperature if you have a vacuum. If you want to see this for yourself, here's an experiment you can try: go to a doctor or veterinarian's office and ask if you can borrow a syringe (you don't need a needle). Suck a bit of water into the syringe. Now cover the hole on the syringe with your finger (or a plastic cap if you have one) and pull back on the plunger as hard and as fast as you can. This will create a partial vacuum inside the syringe, and with some luck you should be able to see the water in it boiling. "


Boiling water with pressure experiment (http://129.93.84.115/Chemistry/DoChem/DoChem090.html)

Effects of the Vacuum on a Human (http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970603.html)

:D

SkrasherSmasher
8th Jul 2002, 16:21
<SkrasherSmsaher pulls his Clapping Machine out of his pocket, it begins clapping>

I may not be sure if that's true, but it seems well reaserched so me and my machine applaude your efforts, but back to the lego things, I forget where, but I saw someone on the internet who made a Slat Hog with a lego program, it looked really cool. He had a laser pistol out and it was all James Bond and stuff. :D

<SkrasherSmasher hits the Clapping Machine, and shoves it back in his pocket.>

AlphaOmega
8th Jul 2002, 21:19
Yes Ghyron, but the point is that space is extremly cold, you will note liquids discharged from the space shuttles freeze instantly.

A peice of lego is a hard plastic, and contains no liquids. The temperature of outer space varies greatly, but for the sake of our lego, lets assume it is being dropped out of an earth orbiting space shuttle. The temperature in direct view of the sun will be about -200 celsius, so the lego will not melt. Even if we were to place a liquid in space, it most likely would not boil (unless it was near a star or something) because it would be frozen instantly.

In a vacume, liquids boil at a higher temperature (slightly less then room temperature for water), but the extreme coldness of space outweighs it greatly.

Read over those websites you listed smarty pants. :)

Note: I'm not taking radiation into account, does anyone know what effect this would have on our little ship?

Ghyron
8th Jul 2002, 21:21
Originally posted by SkrasherSmasher
but back to the lego things,

Yes, back to the Lego things. There is a website posted on the old forum that has pictures of some salt hog space stations (non-torus).

Pinky the Cow
9th Jul 2002, 08:05
Originally posted by AlphaOmega
In a vacume, liquids boil at a higher temperature (slightly less then room temperature for water), but the extreme coldness of space outweighs it greatly.
Why are you two claiming plastic to be liquid?

In vacuum any liquid will boil absolutely 100% for sure at any temperature as long as it is a liquid and as long as it is a vacuum. Although plastic would vapourize in vacuum too unless temperature's at absolute zero.

Pinky the Cow
9th Jul 2002, 08:08
Originally posted by AlphaOmega
Note: I'm not taking radiation into account, does anyone know what effect this would have on our little ship? Radiation speeds up deterioration(sp?) proccess.

DMA57361
9th Jul 2002, 12:30
Pressure effects states of matter. For example - A CO2 fire extinguesher - the CO2 is stored in the extinguesher as a liquid because you get more mass in the same area. But fire extingushers are stored at room temperature. Normal CO2 in the air is a gas a room temp, so pressure must effect states of matter. Dispute this? Go find a CO2 extinguesher it should give the pressure on the outside. I have one here that reports "18 Bar", or 18 times atmospheric pressure.

However there is a forumla that says ((Pressure * Volume) / Temp) for a fixed mass of a particular substance is always constant. So in space pressure is near zero, and so is temp (in Kelvin). However Temp is at least say 10 - and Pressure is negligable. So volume must increase by a factors of 10. This can only acheived by changing density, which is achieved in a gas by expanding - but liquids can't expand, they have to boil into a gas.

However. Solids probably would not melt, or boil, due to the pressure. Or how else can u explain space shuttles surviving? However, it could be that certain solids would, and some would not - depends on the strenght at the molocular level (I guess) . . .

Sorry. To much Physics is bad for you, and I have to use what I learnt somewhere. ;)

Ghyron
9th Jul 2002, 16:29
Originally posted by DMA57361
However. Solids probably would not melt, or boil, due to the pressure. Or how else can u explain space shuttles surviving? However, it could be that certain solids would, and some would not - depends on the strenght at the molocular level (I guess) . . .

Sorry. To much Physics is bad for you, and I have to use what I learnt somewhere. ;)

DMA57361, the melting/boiling point of the material is in most cases the determining factor. I believe that the melting/boiling point of plastic is relatively low. It seems my comment has spawned a not completely off topic discussion of the effects of space on legos.

AlphaOmega
9th Jul 2002, 20:22
I'm telling you guys, the coldness of space outweighs it!

Liquids freeze instantly! Okay, I'm going to talk to a Science Professor I know... She will settle this...

Ghyron
9th Jul 2002, 20:54
This argument is moot and spam, no less. I would think a moderator wouldn't approve of such off topic discussions but, I suppose we have to have something to talk about. :D

AlphaOmega, I believe that it really depends on the circumstances. Some regions of space are very cold, some (such as the space in between the asteroid belt and the sun, are reletivly warm.

SkrasherSmasher
9th Jul 2002, 22:07
Ya, since it has steered so off topic into physics and melting, boiling and vacuums, we should get AlphaOmega or Creamy to zap it over to the Off topic forum or whatever it's called, the one with the RPG's...

AlphaOmega
9th Jul 2002, 22:31
AlphaOmega, I believe that it really depends on the circumstances. Some regions of space are very cold, some (such as the space in between the asteroid belt and the sun, are reletivly warm.
I already pointed that out... For the purposes of our example its being dropped from an earth orbiting shuttle in direct view of the sun.

Pinky: Wrong kind of radiation, I was talking Ultra Violet.

And now... The 3rd party opinion!

Interview with Science Professer Brown
AlphaOmega: Dr. Brown, could you please answer some questions for the Eidos forum on the topic of the effects of outer space of lego?

Brown: *laughs* Certainly!

AO: Here is the scenario, a small lego space ship is brought into earth orbit aboard a space shuttle. When the shuttle is not in the earths shadow, the lego is ejected. What would happen to it?

B: Well... It might melt... Actully, wait...

AO: Is the temperature above zero?

B: I think so. Wait... No, I'm not sure...

Okay, maybe a biology prof wasn't the one to ask. Thats it, were going to NASA with this one. Seriously...

Ghyron
9th Jul 2002, 22:38
Much ado about a lego spaceship. :D

Dracoraptor
10th Jul 2002, 03:02
<Dracoraptor watches as he conducts the chaos from behind the scenes...>

Dance my puppets! Dance! Yes! Take to NASA! Mwuahahahaha!

For all my LEGO photos (http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=7462)

MunkeeChum
10th Jul 2002, 09:44
Sometimes i worry about you.....

SkrasherSmasher
10th Jul 2002, 17:45
Originally posted by Dracoraptor
<Dracoraptor watches as he conducts the chaos from behind the scenes...>

Dance my puppets! Dance! Yes! Take to NASA! Mwuahahahaha!

For all my LEGO photos (http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=7462)

Hmm, I like the carpeting...

Dracoraptor
10th Jul 2002, 18:07
That's not carpeting...

Mucky Foot
10th Jul 2002, 22:40
I am cursed with having been rather good at Physics when I was a kid (did you know you can estimate the speed of the tip of a honey-bee's wing just from the note it makes?) So here goes.

-Yes, pressure affects boiling point. Lower pressure = lower boiling point. Which is why you can't get a decent cup of tea at high altitudes - the water boils at quite a bit below 100 degrees celcuis (and won't get any hotter), which is too low to properly extract the goodness from the tea leaves. Something Arthur Dent forgot, as usually, spacecraft are kept at slightly below 1 atmosphere to make punctures less hectic. No wonder it took Eddie so long to get him a decent cuppa.

-Below a certain pressure, solids go straight to gasses without going via a liquid state. This is called "subliming". Which is what carbon dioxide does at atmospheric pressure - it goes straight fron the solid form (what they call "dry ice") to the vapour form. But if you pressurise it inside a fire extinguisher, it can become a liquid.

- ((Pressure * Volume) / Temp) as someone said. Or as we say in physics: PV = nRT (P=pressure, V=volume, n=how much of the substance there is (measured in some gazillions of molecules), R=a fixed number for the substance involved, T=temperature). But this only holds for gases. Solids and liquids obey completely different rules.

-Some plastics are actually just supercooled liquids. They do flow, but very very very slowly. This is also what most glass is - in old churches, there is a measurable (but very small) difference in thickness between the bottom of the panes and the tops, because the glass has very slowly flowed downwards (however, this is usually masked by the fact that any glass old enough to show this was probably made in such a primitive way that it's all pretty lumpy at manufacture anyway).

-LEGO bricks almost certainly aren't supercooled liquids. They will have proper bonds between the nice long-chain carbon molecules, and they will probably stay perfectly solid even in a vacuum.

-However, the massive amounts of radiation in outer space (or even in Near Earth Orbit) will probably make it very brittle indeed very quickly. UV radiation does nasty things to most things, especially plastics. Don't leave your LEGO bricks out in the sun, even on Earth.

-The effect of the sun in space is amazing. Think of the hottest summer day - the sun on your skin. Then remove the colling effect and shielding of the atmosphere. Now think of the coldest winter day, and ignore the air that is holding some warmth in. That's what you get in space. The side facing the sun will bake. There's no air to take this heat away, so it stays locked in the material. The side facing away from the sun will plunge instantly to around --240 to -270 degrees celcius. So you have plus hundreds of degrees on one side, minus hundreds of degrees on the other. Things are going to go crack pretty quickly, as once side heats up and expands, the other side cools down and shrinks. If the model is spinning, alternate sides will expand and shrink. Your LEGO model is doomed - it's brittle from the UV and vacuum, and it's subjected to massive heat strains and stresses. It's going to fall apart pretty quickly.

Any questions? Good - there will be a test on this in a week.

TomF - showing off his fancy Physics.

DMA57361
11th Jul 2002, 11:45
*blink*blink*

Well . . . I think that just about covered everything . . . ever . . .

Pinky the Cow
11th Jul 2002, 15:24
You think you're tough, huh? :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Mucky Foot
- ((Pressure * Volume) / Temp) as someone said. Or as we say in physics: PV = nRT (P=pressure, V=volume, n=how much of the substance there is (measured in some gazillions of molecules), R=a fixed number for the substance involved, T=temperature). But this only holds for gases.n - quantity of substance, number of moles(?not sure if this is correct word), the number of molecules divided by the number of molecules in 12g of carbon-12 nuclide (approx. 6.02 e23 1/mole).

R is a universal gas constant, doesn't matter what substance is involved, R=8.314 J/(K*mole)

And the equation is appliable to ideal gases only.

SkrasherSmasher
11th Jul 2002, 15:58
You guys are confusing me! My brain can't compute all of this stuff. D*** my incompetent human neurons!

MunkeeChum
11th Jul 2002, 17:48
I did physics....

v=d/t, you see!!!

Oh and a=(v-u)/t.


Damm i'm good :)

DMA57361
11th Jul 2002, 17:58
Ideal gases only huh?

Yes, I knew that - given that it's the nearest match it'll do.

But let me see you make an accurate formula for every gas, or mayB even just one of them . . . ;)

Btw - plz don't try. ;)

Ghyron
11th Jul 2002, 18:38
All this discussion stemming from a random joke I made.

No more discussion about LEGOs in space. Ever.

SkrasherSmasher
11th Jul 2002, 22:41
But what if... no? Ok. And if the legos were made of.... no? Ok..

Big meanie!! :mad:

AlphaOmega
12th Jul 2002, 00:23
Well said Tom, thats basicly an expanded version of what the NASA guy said.

The temperatures would be the biggest thing on the lego, it would be fairly protected from the UV in the Earths shadow, and the temperature would be fine, but as soon as it rounded, its gonnne...

Death Busters
12th Jul 2002, 02:04
Call me a idiot, but how does something get cold if it has no where to transfer it to? I'd think that the sun would heat something and that's that. I thought the only way to get rid of heat in space is radiating it...

Law of Conservation of Energy?!

Please note that the large text was made by an eccentric person behind DB.

Pinky the Cow
12th Jul 2002, 08:49
Why, right you are. Heat is being emanated as infrared waves, when you're heated there is an excess of received waves, and when cooled - domination of radiation.

What direction of changes of temperature is taking place depends on the conditions of a body and it's environment.

AlphaOmega
13th Jul 2002, 04:01
Okay, before we start with the equations, lets just settle with "the lego would be dead."

Edit: Make that -MORE- equations... :)

Meddling Grey
13th Jul 2002, 22:05
What if the lego were made of automotive plastic? I heard somewhere, can't remember where, that when plastic (maybe a certain type of plastic) is heated to a high enough temperature, its composition changes and it gets far more resistant to high temperatures. But if UV radiation makes plastic brittle, it still wouldn't last very long. Ugh.

Note: I called it "Automotive plastic" because it's used for cars. What part of cars I don't know.

Note 2: I could be wrong about all this, as my memory seems to be quite vague.

Ghyron
14th Jul 2002, 04:47
We need to institute a new Forum-Wide Decree: Any sentences with the words "Plastic" and "Space" are not allowed.

DMA57361
14th Jul 2002, 15:49
Whey!! Meddling has made it accross to the new forum!

Maybe he used a spaceship made from plastic lego!? :rolleyes:

Welcome back, or um, here, the new place . . :)

Ghyron
14th Jul 2002, 17:50
Argh! You used the two banned words in a sentence together! Burn! Burn! Burn!

DMA57361
14th Jul 2002, 20:57
:D Which two are those? ;)

SkrasherSmasher
14th Jul 2002, 22:25
It doesn't matter. Just make sure you always put a space between lego and any other word...:)

Ghyron
14th Jul 2002, 22:58
Argh! Not the banned words again!


We need to institute a new Forum-Wide Decree: Any sentences with the words "Plastic" and "Space" are not allowed.

DMA57361
15th Jul 2002, 11:32
Ghyron may have everyone under mind-control. But we control him with space lego. :D

muwhahahaha*cough*hahaha*cough*cough*

Man . . . evil sucks . . . you have to laugh funny . .

Pinky the Cow
15th Jul 2002, 12:37
We are controlling space lego - press any key to start...

SkrasherSmasher
16th Jul 2002, 00:22
<Presses key.>

Welcome to Space Lego. Space lego is THE space for your lego needs of the outerspace. Whatever spacecraft you want made entirely out of legos should be brought here. Please enjoy your stay at Space Lego.

How many banned words was that Ghyron?

Ghyron
16th Jul 2002, 03:22
Rules are not meant to be broken, Dark Spammer!

MunkeeChum
16th Jul 2002, 09:31
WE have no space for you here Dark spammer! You must be placed in a cell made of plastic with no space.

SkrasherSmasher
16th Jul 2002, 14:00
Originally posted by MunkeeChum
WE have no space for you here Dark spammer! You must be placed in a cell made of plastic with no space.

Me or Ghyron? If I'm posting too much I'll just dissapear for a few days if thats what you want.

Ghyron
16th Jul 2002, 14:58
Mister seventeen (and rising) average posts a day, thats who!

SkrasherSmasher
16th Jul 2002, 15:00
OK, fine! I'll leave for a couple days then, don't worry, I'll have a new chapter for the Fanfic when I get back. Cya

MunkeeChum
16th Jul 2002, 19:41
See what you've done now Ghyron.

You made him upset, go and apologize!

Ghyron
16th Jul 2002, 22:41
Oops... maybe I should've put a ":D" next to my post...

AlphaOmega
17th Jul 2002, 07:48
Be calm my minions... Be calm... :)

Pinky the Cow
17th Jul 2002, 12:00
Your who?

AlphaOmega
17th Jul 2002, 20:09
You heard me, my Pink Russian Cow friend...

SkrasherSmasher
18th Jul 2002, 00:32
Hey, Russia is cool. Erhm, don't ask why I think that. Because the only cool thing about Russia I can think of right now is the wierd city names and the way they dance. Heh heh.

Ghyron
18th Jul 2002, 03:53
Only evil nefarious plotters have minions (I would know). :eek:

Pinky the Cow
18th Jul 2002, 11:10
Originally posted by AlphaOmega
You heard me, my Pink Russian Cow friend...
I'll be the worst minion ever then. :p

Sector Banana Farmadrama shall be free of ... er.. evil nefarious plotters!

Ghyron
18th Jul 2002, 14:26
Bannana Farmadrama? I see your evil plot now! By confusing us about our forum name your causing us to lose our forum identity, thus starting our slow decline into... :eek:

Hand-E-Food
23rd Sep 2002, 04:56
Originally posted by AlphaOmega
Plastic cannot freeze as it is not a liquid.


Did anyone consider that hard plastic, being a solid, is already frozen.

MunkeeChum
23rd Sep 2002, 17:11
I tell you this, we left that topic alone for a very good reason..... :)

kool_kats_rule
28th Sep 2002, 14:42
Originally posted by Hand-E-Food


Did anyone consider that hard plastic, being a solid, is already frozen.

Well, it can still crystallize.