PDA

View Full Version : Should Nosgoth have a lore tab in its out of Early Access release?



CountEyokir
17th Mar 2016, 11:16
Personally I consider it a small think to ask and expect. If Nosgoth is going to draw in a large number of new players when it exits early access then I think those new players, as well as those already in, ought to be exposed to as much LoK lore as possible especially background details and story that is relative to the game - such as the clans, who their leaders, who Kain is, histories of factions etc.
I think that a lore tab, perhaps unlock-able with gold or exp, ought to be included in that release.

Do you agree with me this ought to be included in some form and if so, what would be your preferred method?

Vampmaster
17th Mar 2016, 11:23
I agree, but I'm ok with waiting until after release. With all the bugs in this recent patch and the inevitable repeat of the same thing for the Rahabim, I'd say to get that class out, release 1 month later and then start adding bonus stuff like this afterwards. And get that forge upgraded to support all types of items and upgrade-to-mysterious somewhere along the line as well.

I would ideally like to have some sort of unlock mechanism for the lore in order to tie it in with the gameplay as well.

CountEyokir
17th Mar 2016, 11:52
I agree, but I'm ok with waiting until after release. With all the bugs in this recent patch and the inevitable repeat of the same thing for the Rahabim, I'd say to get that class out, release 1 month later and then start adding bonus stuff like this afterwards. And get that forge upgraded to support all types of items and upgrade-to-mysterious somewhere along the line as well.

I would ideally like to have some sort of unlock mechanism for the lore in order to tie it in with the gameplay as well.

I would argue that it ought to be there as this is the crucial point where most interest will be centred on the game and as such more potential new fans to be invested in the world that Nosgoth represents...you know...the world of Nosgoth itself

lucinvampire
17th Mar 2016, 13:10
Yeah, they have all the information from the blogs that can be used, and I'm sure if they want to include some more lore about LoK then they can write something easily enough...suppose its just time and if they can/have it and of course ££££££ - time is money as is effort and poking someone to put it into the game :P

CountEyokir
17th Mar 2016, 13:30
Yeah, they have all the information from the blogs that can be used, and I'm sure if they want to include some more lore about LoK then they can write something easily enough...suppose its just time and if they can/have it and of course ££££££ - time is money as is effort and poking someone to put it into the game :P

Yes that's another concern. The information on the blog is just sitting there not doing anyone any good. The clans already have backstories established by Lok canon but the human factions had their origin here. Their stories definitely need to be in here at release so steam reviewers aren't theorising the background lore of the game, ignorant of such details (yes I've seen that)

Ygdrasel
17th Mar 2016, 16:54
bonus stuff

I still do not get this notion of how anybody can call the lore in an LoK title "bonus stuff"...

Yes, they have bugs and forge stuff and all this to deal with...But lore is just text, maybe some accompanying artwork (video in an ideal paradise but we don't live there) so it's not like it'd be sucking away much resources from that other stuff.

calypso-694
17th Mar 2016, 17:29
An obvious YES.

A little tab at the top that says LORE and then the layout can easily be like the armory only instead of picking weapons we are scrolling through the lore which could just be the blogs they've posted here.

Yeah it's just some text but text is a real **** to code.

Vampmaster
17th Mar 2016, 17:46
I still do not get this notion of how anybody can call the lore in an LoK title "bonus stuff"...

Yes, they have bugs and forge stuff and all this to deal with...But lore is just text, maybe some accompanying artwork (video in an ideal paradise but we don't live there) so it's not like it'd be sucking away much resources from that other stuff.

The lore and the art are the parts of this game that interest me the most, and I'm in full agreement that it should be included in the game. However, I'm under no delusions that the majority of players would feel the same way. Some are only interested in the lore, some are only interested in the gameplay, but for the majority of players, the lore is something that is nice to have, but not the single most important thing in the game. I'm not saying the lore doesn't matter, but the game does need to be in a working condition first.

The lore is something that's actually safe to add after release without breaking everything. Other features don't have that luxury. Also, what if they plan on doing something more complex than just a tab?

CountEyokir
17th Mar 2016, 22:08
I will come out and say that while yes Lore is something more important to us LoK fans, its important to finally show off the lore to the new fans and the Out of Early Access point is the best time to do that. Its an opportunity that for the sake of the health of the franchise at large, ought to be seized upon

Dron1508
18th Mar 2016, 08:22
http://i.imgur.com/zdG2zNa.gif
Can't see any particular reasons to say "No", especially considering Nosgoth's relation to Legacy of Kain.

CountEyokir
18th Mar 2016, 10:35
My own personal thought is that yes this needs to come out with the out of early access release but also be tied to XP. A lot of players I've found have a favourite class they invest the more time in either because they like how it plays or for more immersive reasons, like design and look etc. I think that when you level up that particular class, more readable lore, concept art and viewable items ought unlock in a lore menu. Play a lot of Tyrant - get info and designs for Clan Turelim for example.

Vampmaster
18th Mar 2016, 10:40
My own personal thought is that yes this needs to come out with the out of early access release but also be tied to XP. A lot of players I've found have a favourite class they invest the more time in either because they like how it plays or for more immersive reasons, like design and look etc. I think that when you level up that particular class, more readable lore, concept art and viewable items ought unlock in a lore menu. Play a lot of Tyrant - get info and designs for Clan Turelim for example.

Yeah, I like that idea. From the way they're talking in recent videos, I'm starting to think Official Release might be in May or sooner. They'd need to push that back if they don't want a disaster like the recent patch when they add the Rahabim. Unless they do, it's very unlikely they'd have time to do much with the lore in time for that.

I'm not debating *if* they should add the lore, just *when*.

CountEyokir
18th Mar 2016, 15:08
I'm not debating *if* they should add the lore, just *when*.

The out of early access point will be that when, as far as I am concerned, a potentially unique moment where a large potential new fan base can be exposed to the background story of the game they're playing. It's a pivotal moment and it needs to be seized upon for the good of the franchise, not just for Nosgoth's sake.

ParadoxicalOmen
20th Mar 2016, 17:48
I agree with the idea...but it's the least of their concern right now. Game was broken with last patch.

Aradiel
21st Mar 2016, 13:50
I would absolutely be in favour of this - one of my main frustrations with the original games was that, to fully understand the story, you had to do a lot of reading outside of the games.

Whilst that was tolerable for me years ago, it's more difficult to dedicate the time to seek it out these days, and I imagine other people must be even less motivated to do that - bundling a lore library with the game would be a fantastic move.

Roy644
21st Mar 2016, 14:08
I second this. I played a bit of LoK a while back, but never got into the background story, and now, I don't really have the time to search everywhere for some lore related history and put the pieces back together. It's not important at the moment, but the game will need to go back to its root and share the LoK background with the players. Right now, LoK seems more like a pretext to make a great asymmetrical PvP, but nothing more.

Gugulug5000
21st Mar 2016, 19:09
You're right Eyokir, an influx of new people is something they should try to capitalize on, so I vote yes. I honestly doubt it will happen though, since in one of the interviews the Psyonix guys have done they said that the Rahabim will come out after full release. If they just put in a lore section that doesn't have to be unlocked or anything, then I think they can get it in the game before then. If they want to make you unlock or buy lore items (with gold, obviously), then I don't think Psyonix will be able to implement that in time without messing the game up horribly.

Ygdrasel
21st Mar 2016, 20:25
to fully understand the story, you had to do a lot of reading outside of the games.

Well, that's just untrue...

ParadoxicalOmen
22nd Mar 2016, 01:49
Well, that's just untrue...

Well, yes and no...while it's true you can learn everything from just playing the games. The more interesting stuff i personally found out online, like how the vampires devolution are caused by Kain's corrupted soul.
The vampires in SR1 era aren't regular vampires, i only found out online that they were made with Kain's necromancy (by giving a portion of his soul to the 6 lieutenants...Raziel receiving the largest portion) etc etc.

CountEyokir
23rd Mar 2016, 18:18
thanks for words of support for my position on this matter. Don't get me wrong, bugs and other issues are and should always be of paramount important. In my opinion Nosgoth's becomes so lumber some, convoluted and buggy its not worth playing anymore and I'm skipping out of playing it until its fixed. Hell I hate its launcher's guts. But still I am forced to consider what's more important - the health of this game, or the health of the franchise overall? For the developers, yes their only concern ought be the game they are making - but for us fans - considering Nosgoth was sold to us as a means of reviving the series....well sorry but we've been waiting for it long enough. Its time for Nosgoth to start earning its keep.

Ygdrasel
23rd Mar 2016, 20:42
Well, yes and no...while it's true you can learn everything from just playing the games. The more interesting stuff i personally found out online, like how the vampires devolution are caused by Kain's corrupted soul.
The vampires in SR1 era aren't regular vampires, i only found out online that they were made with Kain's necromancy (by giving a portion of his soul to the 6 lieutenants...Raziel receiving the largest portion) etc etc.

You could learn that pretty easily from the games though. It's mentioned right in Soul Reaver. Though it's true some more interesting ideas may only be pulled elsewhere usually via discussion or research of the lore. Like how Kain's symbol is basically an abstract silhouette of the Scion depicted in the Ancient murals. Or how his evolution (golden skin, crowned skull) reflects his hubris.

Gotta agree with Eyokir on the overall matter here. The game's health is more immediately important (but really, only insofar as the game serves to revive the series proper) but the franchise's health is severely overdue for some attention of its own. They can get the game stable and everything while still working on the lore side.

Equanimityjohn
23rd Mar 2016, 23:34
I've long made this suggestion and I believe it would a quintessential part of the game being any kind of a success once formally 'released'.

Aradiel
2nd Apr 2016, 07:54
Though it's true some more interesting ideas may only be pulled elsewhere usually via discussion or research of the lore. Like how Kain's symbol is basically an abstract silhouette of the Scion depicted in the Ancient murals. Or how his evolution (golden skin, crowned skull) reflects his hubris.
Whilst I can't think of any definite examples of things that are at least not implicit in the games (18 years worth of memories debating, arguing and researching is all a bit jumbled) I wasn't meaning interesting design "fluff" (for lack of a better term), but more plot mechanics (e.g. how time travel works in a similar way to twelve monkeys, or how what happened at the end of Defiance needed to be clarified through a subsequent developer interview)

Regardless I would agree that the health of the game is of course more important, that the lore being accessible in game is a "nice to have", that should not be done at the expense of the game itself.

Ygdrasel
4th Apr 2016, 04:21
Whilst I can't think of any definite examples of things that are at least not implicit in the games (18 years worth of memories debating, arguing and researching is all a bit jumbled) I wasn't meaning interesting design "fluff" (for lack of a better term), but more plot mechanics (e.g. how time travel works in a similar way to twelve monkeys, or how what happened at the end of Defiance needed to be clarified through a subsequent developer interview)

Regardless I would agree that the health of the game is of course more important, that the lore being accessible in game is a "nice to have", that should not be done at the expense of the game itself.

The end of Defiance is entirely understandable...

And the game's health only matters insofar as it can serve the series' health. It can't do that without the lore.
So ideally, it needs to stay in EA until it's stable. Then leave EA with lore included.
But failing that, just get it stable then add the lore later.

Aradiel
4th Apr 2016, 06:17
The end of Defiance is entirely understandable...

The number of people who keep asking why the wraith blade went into the reader at the end, despite it not doing so, shows that many people don't understand the ending.

Raptr0s
5th Apr 2016, 23:07
I have to really appreciate the fact that not even a single No has been voted, not even by the trolls..

GG

Ygdrasel
6th Apr 2016, 21:50
The number of people who keep asking why the wraith blade went into the reader at the end, despite it not doing so, shows that many people don't understand the ending.

Well, they should pay closer attention then. :p Regardless, what happened is still contained entirely within the game. Misunderstanding is a different matter than the info not being there.

GenFeelGood
7th Apr 2016, 03:35
I'll agree that there were many details about the lore that I learned of outside the game. For example, the fact that Kain's method for raising vamps is different from the method Vorador and the other vamps used. I still don't know what this other method is; but it seems more traditional, since it seems able to work on the living without them losing who they were when they were human.

I do wish I had learned it all in game; but there are just some details that are irrelevant when it comes to Kain and Raziel's journey.