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View Full Version : Proof that stone statue in Fire Forge is Raziel.



KainSyndrome101
3rd Jul 2002, 19:15
You have to use the fly code to see these features. This is the proof:

1. On its arms are the same kind of cloth that wraps around Raziel's arms, the brown cloth that his talons come out of.

2. Its hair has two long, big bangs that stick out, just like Raziel's.

3. If you look very, very closely, you can see a line right under its eyes going from the left side of its face to the right. It's obviously the cowl that Raziel wears around his face.

4. Last and probably least, his eyes are glowing blue, and they look just like Raziel's.


I believe that this evidence proves that that statue is Raziel.

C-mon, just look at him! It has to be him. Who else would have those psychotic eyes except Raziel?

DMK_Azrael
3rd Jul 2002, 19:33
Yep its Raz statue to me...at first i thought it was Janos, but Janos doesn't have the hair like that and his eyes don't glow too(at least like that)...

Embla
3rd Jul 2002, 19:40
It surely looks like Raziel, so I have always believed it to be a statue of him.

KainSyndrome101
3rd Jul 2002, 19:52
If it truly is Raziel, then his destiny has been foretold all along. What if it's a memorial to him, as in that the Ancients accept him as one of them because he will save them from the Hylden? Maybe that's why he's shown with wings. It's like he's a god to them, a legend or something.

Embla
3rd Jul 2002, 20:18
Nice theory, KainSyndrome. That might be true. Maybe we will see this happen in SR3.

Jeffers
3rd Jul 2002, 21:33
Although it is not completly related to this topic I think it might be worth posting again. It was when I think I convinced myself that with all the effort put into the last animation in the fir forge that it was something to do with the end of the game.

Jeffers:

I was just woundering wether anybody else noticed something which I know is almost certainly in the Dark and fire forge.
What it is, it is easier to explain in terms of the fire forge, the animation when you get the fire reaver and those two circles come up with the triangle in the circle, know the one I mean.

Well in the Dark forge, where you have to move the sundial type thing to move the mirror so it shines on the other mirror. If you look around the wall, what do you see?

The same symbol. I am almost certain it is, but feel free to contradict me. I haven't checked the other forges yet, someone else could do that and post here and let me know, if not, I shall have to check tommorow.

Carrying on with my theory that that animation in the fire forge is something significant, basically either getting the amplified reaver or something to do with binding, although the binding theory has been decided not to be true. I now think that that symobol is a symbol for the reaver or it could be the joining of the reaver to its host. That was completly off the top of my head, but I already like it.

It definatly has some significance to the reaver in any case, which is obvious if you think about it.

What do you think?

Another thing I would like to know, which Warp or someone witha gameshark could do for me, Is on the way to Janos's place, if you look up there are balconies. What is up there? I have been trying to find ways up, I think that the wall was a path but has been made flat now. Just out of curiosity.

I also had a most unliky thought, that in the dark forge, the murals along the wall, it is a shot in the dark, but do the buildings look like Kain's retreat and the smoke stack, or is that just me associating things which aren't there?

In the bonus material, in one of the concepts and stills of Raziel I noticed that the shadow of his wings looked like any other winged races wings I think would look.

As you can tell, since I don't have anything to fly around and look at, I am grabbing theories out of now where. So tell me shut up if they are useless and have all bin heard before.

Blincoln:

I can only answer a couple of things but:
- the ledges around Janos place that are inaccessible: some of them have doors that Warp has said look like you should be able to open with the Air Reaver, but you can't.

- The Raziel w/angel-wings-shadow predates the Winged Race part of SR2 by several years. I can imagine Amy might make that relate to the new storyline, but it would probably be just a happy coincidence.

Jeffers:

Thanx for that Blincoln.
That was summet else I was mean't to put in, in the air forge, I can't remember which door it was put in anyway, there is a collapsed wall and either side of it is the air symbol, but of course you can't get in with the air reaver to try and open it.

Don't suppose anyone else has, I can't as the door closes which I suspect it does on everybodies, but have you had any look Warp?

Anyway, I'll be back tommorow.

Lieutenant Raziel:

I've always associated Raziel's angelic-looking shadow in some Soul Reaver artwork with the fact that he is meant to be some kind of "avenging angel". Remember, he was resurrected by the Elder to destroy Kain and cleanse Nosgoth of vampires. That is also why the humans in the Human Citadel worship him... they see him as their saviour. I think the shadow is supposed to reflect his true purpose. :)

Jeffers:

But if you attack one human, then all the humans flee from you in the citadel.

Shows how much faith they have, even avenging angels can make mistakes.

Warpsavant:

LOL Jeffers. I like the theory about the shadow Raz. (the shadow where he has angel wings I am assuming)
Jeffers, those balconies are all the same. One of them you can access,(the only portal on the trail to the retreat, in the canyon like, and there is a fire font here too) all the rest look like that, excepot for 2. The 2 are the ones on the cliff edges, so there is no mountain behind them. I think these things are Vampire Aeries. They look like the ruined one in the swamp.

Inside all of them are carvings and drawing, (the symbols that appear everywhere else and more vamps, evil looking)these same things also appear inside Janos Audrons retreat, where he dies. Each one has an archway in the back(looks like they could've been doorways), with a texture that looks similiar to the mountain, I think Air Reaver Projectiles shoulda blew them open.

I noticed the collapse wall. I think its just to make the place look a lil different because the entry way to each heart puzzle is basically the same thing. I never shot it with Air Projectiles Ill give it a shot, I can get the Air Reaver in there.

I was looking thru old screenshots, and found this mural that may not of made it into the game. I have to change it make it jpeg so I can post it. Its cool. It shows the symbols in the animation of the fire forge, but its somewhere else! And this mural isnt in the game either. It may be the one on that block in the light forge, but I dont know, it looks a little different.


[This message has been edited by warpsavant (edited 02-19-2002).]

Gorechild:

This is most interesting. do any of you have pictures to show us?

Jeffers:

Well please hurry up with that picture, I'm really interested now.


I don't have any pictures, I did try with a camera but they don't look to good.

Warpsavant:

Im pretty sure after looking at it for awhile that it appears in the Light Forge where you pull the block. The symbol was replaced by a pink stone.

But that symbol is everywhere it must be important. Its the symbol (one of them) in the Fire Forge animation.
http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,913911-8,00.html

Jeffers:

It looks like the air forge, will have to go and investigate tommorow.

That is part of the symbol I was meaning though, although the one in the dark forge looked more like the combined symbol.

Anyway, happy reading!

Jeffers.

Umah Bloodomen
4th Jul 2002, 05:17
Before I vote, is there any way to get a screenshot posted of the statue?

I'd like to take a look at it and I'm sure a few other forum members would as well.

Thanks guys & gals ;)

chinese-soul-eater
5th Jul 2002, 20:27
I saved it right before i left the fire forge cause i like the janos audron retreat dont know why though i jus find its pretty kool

Glucolisis
6th Jul 2002, 00:40
Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
Before I vote, is there any way to get a screenshot posted of the statue?

I'd like to take a look at it and I'm sure a few other forum members would as well.

Thanks guys & gals ;)

I posted that picture a loooong time ago. I said the same about that the statue was Raziel but nobody payed attention to what i said. I`ll try to find that pic again for you.

Umah Bloodomen
6th Jul 2002, 02:12
Glucolisis ~

Which forum did you post it on? I hadn't frequented the SR forum until June. If you posted it awhile ago as you said, then perhaps I missed. If I wouldve found the topic I would've been inclined to check it out. I hope you can find it. I'd really like to look at it.

:)

Glucolisis
6th Jul 2002, 05:14
http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz.jpg

Before you forge the blade

http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz2.jpg

a larger view

http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz3.jpg
a bit closer

continue in the next post

Glucolisis
6th Jul 2002, 05:18
http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz4.jpg
cutscene moment

http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz5.jpg
just before inseting the blade in the hole

http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz6.jpg
after forging the blade

Glucolisis
6th Jul 2002, 05:21
http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz7.jpg
a closer view

http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz8.jpg
un chin lejos (pa ke gocen)

http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz9.jpg

in spectral realm.


Damn new forum, i can`t put all the pics that I want.

How many can i put in a single messege??

L_Master562
6th Jul 2002, 06:35
Posted the info and pictures of the statue. I prefer it after forging the reaver. Looking at the last image, (sarcastic tone)who in that picture looks exactly the same as the statue in the background(/sarcasm)??? I would say Jano.....no, I know this one!!!!!! Pick me!!!! OK, who is it? VORADOR. Whack myself over the head. Owwww. That hurt. Well idiot, it would actually be Raziel, get that through your thick skull!!!!!! I'll kill you!!!! Starts strangling himself. Yeah, I'm tired, out of it, still medicated to stop the still throbing and stabing pains in my head, and nothing better is on TV at this time of night so I'm re-watching Me, Myself and Irene. Funny movie. It is on to much though. Its not like before the movie I talked to myself though. Tired. Bye. Off to sleep if I can. Wish I could, but haven't gotten much sleep over the past few days for some reason.

Umah Bloodomen
6th Jul 2002, 18:26
Hey now, would you lookie here. Thanks for the insight Glucolisis. I don't feel as left out anymore. :)

I would stand to think that this is a statue of Raziel. No doubt about it. Granted the actual detail of the cowl isn't as apparent but the eyes and facial features give it away.

Being that Janos (or the ancients in general) could quite possibly see into the future as far as Soul Reaver Raziel being their "messiah" enough to construct this statue and ensure that (granted with the help of a code here and there ;) ) Raziel would stumble upon it is rather intriguing.

My question is, can the ancients see into the future to know that is exactly what Raziel would look exactly this way? Did they have help to see into the future? (The Seer or someone on their side). Or does this prove that Raziel was an ancient of importance back before the hylden vs. Ancients battle? (Thus proving he was originally an ancient, made a human, became a vamp and then started back over at square one).

Quite intriguing indeed....

Behold yet another twisted chapter in our LOK Based Soap Opera:
"As the Chronoplast Turns (TM)"

chuffy
6th Jul 2002, 18:56
its defiantly raziel. a image of what the ancients thought of as there massiah. maybe the seer(BO2) fore told his coming and they resurrected this statue as a homage to raziel

chuffy

KainSyndrome101
6th Jul 2002, 19:15
That's also what I believe chuffy. Since Raziel will save the Ancients, they created a memorial to Raziel, and made him look the way the Ancients had envisioned him, or as they accepted him.

Nyriel
8th Jul 2002, 16:28
Glucolisis
The images in your posts are now "remote linking forbidden" signs. Is there any chance you could give us a link to where you have put the images?

Thanks!

Glucolisis
8th Jul 2002, 18:31
That is until freewebspace decide to unlock the pics.

Sorry for the problem.

http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz.jpg
http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz2.jpg
http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz3.jpg
http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz4.jpg
http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz5.jpg
http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz6.jpg
http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz7.jpg
http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz8.jpg
http://glucolisis.freewebspace.com/images/raz9.jpg

edit: do not click on the link cause it is going to say the same, that it is forbiden. Just copy the url in a new explorer window and you`ll be able to wacth them.

Nyriel
9th Jul 2002, 03:28
Yes you are right! Thanks for that Glucolisis.

Definitely him, no doubt. I never realised that before, though I have played the game so many times now.

This may sound daft, but I ALWAYS rush through that bit, even though I KNOW I am not going to be able to imbue the reaver in time to save Janos, I always try to do it really quickly, I get a real sense of urgency that I have to, so I can save Janos.
STOOPID, am I not!

Then every time I get there just in time to see Janos get killed I feel disappointed.

Nyriel (needs someone to remind her that it is just a game)

Umah Bloodomen
9th Jul 2002, 03:46
I just remember that Janos is the "God" figure of the story and await his (undisclosed) return in BO2 along with the future installments of the series. :p

Helps me not be depressed about his death. ;)

KainSyndrome101
9th Jul 2002, 19:38
You haven't played BO2 yet?

darien_specter
11th Jul 2002, 01:41
Yes. Not only did I mention that elsewhere, but used it as evidence that Raziel is meant to use the combined Reaver to take it the elements (since that statue is bearing the sword and that sword is wreathed in fire.) I wasn't even aware there was debate on the issue - I guess it was an obvious given to me...

Hope that doesn't come across patronizing or whatever - just agreeing! :D

I think that this statue is yet another instance of prophecy on the part of the ancients, depicting the one who would be their messiah, some more obviously than others. Note also the doors, and the paintings in the Pillars shrine (see my topic "Paintings and Prophecy" for discussion of this.)

KoolKat
20th Jul 2002, 21:18
Cool, I never noticed that about the statue before.

I did notice, however, that one of the windows in the room of Rahab looks supsiciously and quite amusingly like Raziel's face.

Probably everybody's noticed it, but I thought it was funny.

:D :D :D

Power reaver
21st Jul 2002, 09:53
yup , if you look closely with Light / Fire Reaver it definately looks like Raz , Iam surprised Raz did nt recognise it and say a dailog or 2 in the game . Perhaps he hasent seen a mirror since he was ressurrected , that or whenever he tried the mirror cracked .:p