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View Full Version : I hate the suspicion system in Hitman 6



semajmarc87
5th Mar 2016, 02:36
- Having to worry specifically about guys who have a dot over there head? I am not a fan of that. If you remove the dot over the head in the settings, the game is then unplayable because we don't know who the enforcer is.

- Relying on the Absolution "shhhhh" sound and suspicion triangle thingy to know if someone is suspicious of you is bad. I haven't heard one person who likes this, so I think that needs to change. Just have the classic suspicion bar in the bottom left corner.

Immadummee
5th Mar 2016, 03:04
what they should have done was dress enforcers in a different color. So all cops are in blue, so the enforcers are dressed in red or yellow for example with the same uniform. Body guards for Ritter are in black, enforcers in red or yellow.

This way you see them visually and up to you to see them for how they are dressed and not with a dot over their head.

semajmarc87
5th Mar 2016, 03:53
what they should have done was dress enforcers in a different color. So all cops are in blue, so the enforcers are dressed in red or yellow for example with the same uniform. Body guards for Ritter are in black, enforcers in red or yellow.

This way you see them visually and up to you to see them for how they are dressed and not with a dot over their head.

I think realism is always the best approach. They should have realistic things that make the person look more "important." Like if their are security guards, have the enforcer have a fancier badge or outfit that makes him look like he's a superior of the other guards. Things like that that would be more natural or realistic instead of relying on a floating dot. Games are becoming too arcade-like nowadays. I miss the days when stealth games were more like simulators.

Hitman_Limerick
5th Mar 2016, 04:09
I think realism is always the best approach. They should have realistic things that make the person look more "important." Like if their are security guards, have the enforcer have a fancier badge or outfit that makes him look like he's a superior of the other guards. Things like that that would be more natural or realistic instead of relying on a floating dot. Games are becoming too arcade-like nowadays. I miss the days when stealth games were more like simulators.

^this, little late in the dev cycle to have complaints heard, now, but an upgrade in uniform would certainly be better than a UI 'dot' over a manager's head.

Valenka
5th Mar 2016, 17:38
- Having to worry specifically about guys who have a dot over there head? I am not a fan of that. If you remove the dot over the head in the settings, the game is then unplayable because we don't know who the enforcer is.

You don't want the dot over their head, but then you complain because you won't know who the enforcers are? :scratch:


what they should have done was dress enforcers in a different color. So all cops are in blue, so the enforcers are dressed in red or yellow for example with the same uniform. Body guards for Ritter are in black, enforcers in red or yellow.

I don't like that idea. I mean, picture it; it seems foolish to identify ketchup and mustard to figure out who is who. Imagine walking around Sapienza and being like, "Whoops, have to be careful; there are two enforcers over there. I know because they look like walking bananas."

Immadummee
5th Mar 2016, 22:26
You don't want the dot over their head, but then you complain because you won't know who the enforcers are? :scratch:



I don't like that idea. I mean, picture it; it seems foolish to identify ketchup and mustard to figure out who is who. Imagine walking around Sapienza and being like, "Whoops, have to be careful; there are two enforcers over there. I know because they look like walking bananas."



so you prefer the dot? The discussion is what we could have instead of the dot. And other than you saying you don't like the color differentiation, you do nothing to help the topic. Any suggestions? Or do you prefer the dot?

Cuz there would be no difference at all if its a dot or a colored uniform. If you take away the dot completely, then how do you know who the enforcers are? What do you think? At least with colours, you don't have this hovering unrealistic dot over their heads which kinda takes away from the immersion of the game.

semajmarc87
6th Mar 2016, 00:37
You don't want the dot over their head, but then you complain because you won't know who the enforcers are? :scratch:[/I]

I don't want a floating dot over the person's head. In fact, I want the whole "enforcer" system gone completely. It's unrealistic and stupid. But if we need to have the stupid "enforcer" system, make it more realistic.


I don't like that idea. I mean, picture it; it seems foolish to identify ketchup and mustard to figure out who is who. Imagine walking around Sapienza and being like, "Whoops, have to be careful; there are two enforcers over there. I know because they look like walking bananas."

I like my idea better than his idea, but you sound so ridiculous. You criticize him for saying that "enforcers" should have different colored shirts, yet you advocate having a floating dot over their head? I am so sick of the unrealistic arcade-like garbage in today's games.

TotalBrutal51
6th Mar 2016, 14:36
The dot is not a big deal for me and if you read the Beta forum section : top 5 good/bad you will see that most player are happy with the new disguise systeme.

And in my opinion I think Hitman Contracts had the best disguise systeme. But the new one is cool too, it's way more permissive.

If we have to replace the dot, why not just put a different color on the mini map's dot for the enforcer.

Or maybe a subtil sound effect could be hear for those who don't want any HUD.

IamRahx
6th Mar 2016, 15:34
The entire stealth mechanic of the game is kind of lacking. Partly because of us. Most (including myself) kept bringing up BM as a basis for H6. But this was mainly for mechanics. The stealth was done better in earlier hitman games, Contracts and Silent Assassin. THe thing is most people agree with this, but I think we weren't clear enough.

The focus on stealth is too simple, especially after watching the 'talking stealth videos' IO released. Unfortunately since Blood Money it turned into a disguise system and not a suspicion system. Disguise system is too simple.. Get a disguise and you get places.
The older games before had a suspicion based disguise system as in You have to be inconspicuous. You can't run past people.. Pull out a gun anytime you want, poisin a drink in front of a waiter, stand next to a person for too long. This even if you have the necessary disguise.
In H6 many people have explained how crazy it is that you can find the right disguise and absolutely noone will care if you run around with a fire extinguisher in hand and crouch/follow people. Only the people with a circle above their head will notice you. But not because of what you're doing, but simply because you have an uniform on.
H6 is definately more to the roots of hitman. But I think that it falls short of being the upgrade from BM we were hoping for. Game looks good... but misses alot of things.
This is an issue I know cannot be fixed in H6 but hopefully in the future. And the poor devs. I know you tried and it sounds like nothing you do is good enough (which of course it never will be). It's simply people are still waiting for BM2 that makes a mechanic jump like we had between Contracts and Blood Money. Not just a modern take.

Greig91
6th Mar 2016, 19:00
I don't want a floating dot over the person's head. In fact, I want the whole "enforcer" system gone completely. It's unrealistic and stupid. But if we need to have the stupid "enforcer" system, make it more realistic.

The enforcers make this the most realistic suspicion system Hitman has used to date. Well excluding the antics IamRahx mentioned, but you weren't talking about that. In the first three games you'd get shot just for jogging in a public area because the AI was far too twitchy. Blood Money wasn't much better. And Absolution was completely insane, like 50% of the NPCs could blow your cover at any time.

It makes perfect sense that only a few key NPCs who are in charge can blow your cover, because they know who works under them. That's the logic that enforcers are being used to replicate. I agree that the dot isn't ideal, different uniforms would be better (I think there are some). But it's definitely a good system.

Valenka
6th Mar 2016, 22:21
I don't want a floating dot over the person's head. In fact, I want the whole "enforcer" system gone completely. It's unrealistic and stupid. But if we need to have the stupid "enforcer" system, make it more realistic.

Well, I'm sure the floor is open to suggestions. ;)
I don't see anything wrong with the enforcer system. It's no fun walking around in a disguise and not having anyone question your identity, especially if you've taken the disguise of a distinguishable character, like a bodyguard, chief of security or head waiter or something. The white dot is a bit silly and they should replace it with something more realistic. For example, if you're disguised as a security guard, then the enforcer should be the chief of security; he should be distinguishable by a specific outfit or identifying badge or article of clothing. Nothing so grandeur as his entire ensemble being all yellow or red or something, but something subtle, yet noticeable.

I understand your sentiment about realism completely, but there are a lot more unrealistic features in the game, like being able to poison drinks in clear view of civilians as long as you're wearing the right disguise. "Hey, that man is putting emetic rat poison in Novikov's drink! Oh wait, he's the bartender. Never mind, he must know what he's doing."


I like my idea better than his idea, but you sound so ridiculous. You criticize him for saying that "enforcers" should have different colored shirts, yet you advocate having a floating dot over their head? I am so sick of the unrealistic arcade-like garbage in today's games.

Excuse me, but how exactly did I advocate the white dots to identify enforcers? Exactly what part of my post that you quoted translates into, "Yes, I stand behind the enforcer white dots one hundred percent. IO Interactive, do not change it, it's brilliant!" because I must have missed it. :rolleyes:

I criticized Immadummee's idea because while I respect their opinion, I think it's just nonsensical. You mean to tell me a subtle white dot is a worse identifier than someone walking around dressed entirely in yellow or red? Really?


so you prefer the dot? The discussion is what we could have instead of the dot. And other than you saying you don't like the color differentiation, you do nothing to help the topic. Any suggestions? Or do you prefer the dot?

No offense, but I prefer the dot to your idea entirely. Like I suggested to semajmarc87, perhaps there could be identifying features such as a specific outfit or badge. Perhaps it could be location and disguise specific; for example, in Thailand, if the lead scientist is the enforcer for the scientists, his protective goggles could be yellow whereas the rest of the scientists wear blue ones. It takes inspiration from your idea, but nothing so loud and obvious as an entire color-coordinated outfit. Color differentiation could work, but absolutely not if it's as obnoxious as enforcers looking like walking bananas.


At least with colours, you don't have this hovering unrealistic dot over their heads which kinda takes away from the immersion of the game.

Well, having someone walking around wearing all red or all yellow is certainly unrealistic, arcade-like and would take away from the immersion just the same. However, take the dot away completely and you'll also lack the hovering dot to identify who will have issue with you being visibly armed. Unless it works in the same way as I suggested before, where the identifiable enforcers would be the ones to notice you're armed, unless you're a waiter walking around with a shotgun, then everyone would notice.

Have you played the beta? When you're walking around visibly armed (pistol in hand or heavy weapon on 47's back) in an outfit that does not allow it, suddenly "everyone" becomes an enforcer and has a white dot over their heads. Naturally, it's unnecessary as we all know that waiters walking around with shotguns is frowned upon and they could do away with that and we'll all live another day just fine.

The point I'm trying to make is that while there could be much better implementations to identify enforcers than a white dot over their heads in an immersive experience, it isn't the end of the world. It could be much worse than a white dot...like someone wearing all yellow. :p


The enforcers make this the most realistic suspicion system Hitman has used to date. Well excluding the antics IamRahx mentioned, but you weren't talking about that. In the first three games you'd get shot just for jogging in a public area because the AI was far too twitchy. Blood Money wasn't much better. And Absolution was completely insane, like 50% of the NPCs could blow your cover at any time.

It makes perfect sense that only a few key NPCs who are in charge can blow your cover, because they know who works under them. That's the logic that enforcers are being used to replicate. I agree that the dot isn't ideal, different uniforms would be better (I think there are some). But it's definitely a good system.

Well said. :thumb:

Immadummee
7th Mar 2016, 11:11
Well, I'm sure the floor is open to suggestions. ;)
I don't see anything wrong with the enforcer system. It's no fun walking around in a disguise and not having anyone question your identity, especially if you've taken the disguise of a distinguishable character, like a bodyguard, chief of security or head waiter or something. The white dot is a bit silly and they should replace it with something more realistic. For example, if you're disguised as a security guard, then the enforcer should be the chief of security; he should be distinguishable by a specific outfit or identifying badge or article of clothing. Nothing so grandeur as his entire ensemble being all yellow or red or something, but something subtle, yet noticeable.

I understand your sentiment about realism completely, but there are a lot more unrealistic features in the game, like being able to poison drinks in clear view of civilians as long as you're wearing the right disguise. "Hey, that man is putting emetic rat poison in Novikov's drink! Oh wait, he's the bartender. Never mind, he must know what he's doing."



Excuse me, but how exactly did I advocate the white dots to identify enforcers? Exactly what part of my post that you quoted translates into, "Yes, I stand behind the enforcer white dots one hundred percent. IO Interactive, do not change it, it's brilliant!" because I must have missed it. :rolleyes:

I criticized Immadummee's idea because while I respect their opinion, I think it's just nonsensical. You mean to tell me a subtle white dot is a worse identifier than someone walking around dressed entirely in yellow or red? Really?



No offense, but I prefer the dot to your idea entirely. Like I suggested to semajmarc87, perhaps there could be identifying features such as a specific outfit or badge. Perhaps it could be location and disguise specific; for example, in Thailand, if the lead scientist is the enforcer for the scientists, his protective goggles could be yellow whereas the rest of the scientists wear blue ones. It takes inspiration from your idea, but nothing so loud and obvious as an entire color-coordinated outfit. Color differentiation could work, but absolutely not if it's as obnoxious as enforcers looking like walking bananas.



Well, having someone walking around wearing all red or all yellow is certainly unrealistic, arcade-like and would take away from the immersion just the same. However, take the dot away completely and you'll also lack the hovering dot to identify who will have issue with you being visibly armed. Unless it works in the same way as I suggested before, where the identifiable enforcers would be the ones to notice you're armed, unless you're a waiter walking around with a shotgun, then everyone would notice.

Have you played the beta? When you're walking around visibly armed (pistol in hand or heavy weapon on 47's back) in an outfit that does not allow it, suddenly "everyone" becomes an enforcer and has a white dot over their heads. Naturally, it's unnecessary as we all know that waiters walking around with shotguns is frowned upon and they could do away with that and we'll all live another day just fine.

The point I'm trying to make is that while there could be much better implementations to identify enforcers than a white dot over their heads in an immersive experience, it isn't the end of the world. It could be much worse than a white dot...like someone wearing all yellow. :p



Well said. :thumb:


Well they don't really need to be in 1 complete outfit. For example, I used to work in a manufacturing plant. Everyone wore yellow construction hats but the boss wore a white construction hat. So that could be a way to identify superiors in factions. Now with say the body guards to Ritter who are all in black, it's a simple as use their enforcer to have yellow shoes.

See the thing is, it's best to make the identifying of the enforcers obvious because the dot already does that. It's just a way to get rid of the dot which really takes away from immersion.

Valenka
7th Mar 2016, 13:54
Well they don't really need to be in 1 complete outfit. For example, I used to work in a manufacturing plant. Everyone wore yellow construction hats but the boss wore a white construction hat. So that could be a way to identify superiors in factions. Now with say the body guards to Ritter who are all in black, it's a simple as use their enforcer to have yellow shoes.

That...is literally what I said before...in the fourth paragraph of my post. :scratch:
I said "Perhaps it could be location and disguise specific; for example, in Thailand, if the lead scientist is the enforcer for the scientists, his protective goggles could be yellow whereas the rest of the scientists wear blue ones."

I still think yellow shoes with an all-black outfit would be too much. Perhaps a pair of gold sunglasses or a gold handkerchief in his front breast pocket, something believable. I doubt the head of security would walk around with yellow shoes.


See the thing is, it's best to make the identifying of the enforcers obvious because the dot already does that. It's just a way to get rid of the dot which really takes away from immersion.

I understand that, but I'd rather have the dot than solid yellow/red/blue/green/orange whatever-color shoes or an outfit or what have you. While the dot is just as obvious, it's a lot less obnoxious and loud. Yes, the white dot over the head of an enforcer is indeed obvious, but it doesn't scream "HERE I AM!" like a yellow outfit or a pair of yellow shoes with an all black suit.

You can be obvious, yet subtle and I think that's how it should be. Like I suggested, a gold or yellow handkerchief (or blue, red, green, whatever) where as it's obvious that it's there, but subtle enough not to be distracting or annoying. However, that's just on guards with suits. Like I said before, scientists could have specifically colored protective goggles, whereas a head waiter could have a certain outfit. Like in the beta, where the head sailor had a captain's hat. Subtle, but clear.

Immadummee
7th Mar 2016, 19:24
That...is literally what I said before...in the fourth paragraph of my post. :scratch:
I said "Perhaps it could be location and disguise specific; for example, in Thailand, if the lead scientist is the enforcer for the scientists, his protective goggles could be yellow whereas the rest of the scientists wear blue ones."

I still think yellow shoes with an all-black outfit would be too much. Perhaps a pair of gold sunglasses or a gold handkerchief in his front breast pocket, something believable. I doubt the head of security would walk around with yellow shoes.



I understand that, but I'd rather have the dot than solid yellow/red/blue/green/orange whatever-color shoes or an outfit or what have you. While the dot is just as obvious, it's a lot less obnoxious and loud. Yes, the white dot over the head of an enforcer is indeed obvious, but it doesn't scream "HERE I AM!" like a yellow outfit or a pair of yellow shoes with an all black suit.

You can be obvious, yet subtle and I think that's how it should be. Like I suggested, a gold or yellow handkerchief (or blue, red, green, whatever) where as it's obvious that it's there, but subtle enough not to be distracting or annoying. However, that's just on guards with suits. Like I said before, scientists could have specifically colored protective goggles, whereas a head waiter could have a certain outfit. Like in the beta, where the head sailor had a captain's hat. Subtle, but clear.

Yup. But you took it too literally when I said the colours. I was only giving an example to stir up ideas. Ofher than that, it looks like we ended up on the same thing. ;)

Valenka
7th Mar 2016, 20:09
Yup. But you took it too literally when I said the colours. I was only giving an example to stir up ideas. Ofher than that, it looks like we ended up on the same thing. ;)

I was merely mimicking it in jest. :p
I figured it was just an example, but I literally couldn't shake the idea of an enforcer walking around in a banana-yellow suit.

In short, there are plenty of other creative and more realistic ways to identify enforcers, but it could be a lot worse than a white dot over their heads, I think. :)

Greig91
7th Mar 2016, 21:29
What about wooly hats with white bobbles on top? Everybody wins.