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Psyonix_Ryan
12th Feb 2016, 21:09
When it was first implemented, the Daily Reward system was meant to bring another level of incentive to play Nosgoth on a day-to-day basis. By logging in each day, players had a chance of winning gold, vouchers, and exclusive character skins. However, we think the Daily Reward system is way too passive of an experience for a game like Nosgoth, and we had a better idea.

With the Daily Challenges system, we are giving fun, new challenges to players to pursue. Each day, players are given new objectives to complete and, once achieved, they will be handsomely rewarded for their efforts.


http://esploded.s3.amazonaws.com/user_data/GooieGreen/E9t5-DailyChallenges1.png

How it works

Every day, players will be assigned one new challenge to their log which they can complete in any mode except for Tutorial or Private Matches. Up to three challenges can be held at once and they will be assigned even if you don’t log in for a few days.

Challenges range in difficulty, from basic tasks like completing a few games to character and ability-specific tasks. For example, if you have the Deceiver unlocked, you might be tasked with landing 10 Backstabs. Player progress can be tracked on the main menu as well as in-game, as you move closer to those tantalizing rewards.


http://esploded.s3.amazonaws.com/user_data/GooieGreen/w6eT-DailyChallenges3.png

If you come across a challenge that you’re struggling with, you’ll have the option of rolling for a new one, which is assigned at random. Any class or ability that you have unlocked will be eligible for a related challenge; anything you haven’t unlocked won’t.

Here are a few examples of challenges you’ll see:

Deal 30000 damage with abilities
[Vanguard] Shield Block 4000 damage
[Sentinel] Deal 6000 Fall Damage
(Vampire Only) Achieve 4 takedowns in a single life, 4 times
(Human Only) Use 10 health stations/when below 50% HP


Every challenge you complete will reward you with Pips (or little blue boxes that fill up your reward bar). Once the reward bar is filled, players will receive one of three themed chests, no keys required! Each will be filled with anything from in-game currency to unique skins that you can’t get anywhere else.

You can expect to see these (and more) inside select chests:
[list]
Bulging Crate (Forge Materials)
Chest Key
Dead Man’s Mail (Skin)
Runestone Voucher (30% off)
Exalted Treasure of the Clans (Chest)


http://esploded.s3.amazonaws.com/user_data/GooieGreen/Q/p3-DailyChallengesChestDescription.png

The Daily Challenges system will allow us to make new and engaging challenges as new modes, characters, and abilities are introduced to Nosgoth. We’re really excited about this latest addition to the game and what you think about it, too (so be sure to head to sound off)!

Nosgoth’s Daily Challenges will be released next week, along with the Beastmaster and the long-awaited Beta Season 4.0 rewards.

Ygdrasel
12th Feb 2016, 21:21
Might I suggest resizing images before posting them?

Slightly bothered by "Each will be filled with anything from in-game currency to unique skins that you can’t get anywhere else." as it leaves room for these to just be stuffed with boosters, vouchers and paltry gold sums most of the time.
Y'know, like the other chests that everyone hates.

Other than that potentially devastating factor, it does sound like a better system than that miserable lag-inducing prize slot machine. Looking forward to it.

Also, I hope these challenges will get more interesting than "Do [x] damage". There's not much challenge in that, just time.
"Pounce [x] treshawks in flight.", "Get [x] double/triple/quad kills.", "Hit [x] humans with a single Charge/Jump.", "Get [x] reprisal kills" would all be better. Take some dexterity, precision, planning...
(Note: Nosgoth officially has no such thing as a "reprisal" but it consists in other games of killing an enemy moments after they themselves have scored a kill. I think it'd be a nice addition.)

Vampmaster
12th Feb 2016, 21:26
Or use the thumb tags.

@Ryan, do you think duplicate skins can be locked out until trading is supported? I think I already have a few dead man's mail's.

ParadoxicalOmen
13th Feb 2016, 00:38
I must say i really like this...it's a much better incentive than the daily rewards (especially since the daily rewards reset after 7 days...total bummer).

I do have one complaint though...(wrapped in spoiler 'cause it's slightly off topic)i remember being one of the guys that kept complaining how Daily Rewards needed a change since it was dis-motivational having that tier reward reset.
So it seems you guys were actually listening to our feedback...so my complaint is, why didn't you guys say you were working on it.
It's just like the Vanguard block bug (can't block when out of ammo)...it just seems like we're being ignored.

Ysanoire
13th Feb 2016, 01:11
Sounds promising. And... I just like the chest art... I know, in-depth feedback.



I do have one complaint though...(wrapped in spoiler 'cause it's slightly off topic)i remember being one of the guys that kept complaining how Daily Rewards needed a change since it was dis-motivational having that tier reward reset.
So it seems you guys were actually listening to our feedback...so my complaint is, why didn't you guys say you were working on it.
It's just like the Vanguard block bug (can't block when out of ammo)...it just seems like we're being ignored.

It's not the result of feedback, they mentioned working on this project when they introduced daily rewards, and originally, they were both supposed to be in the game.

Da_Wolv
13th Feb 2016, 09:50
Might I suggest resizing images before posting them?
Yes - Please!


Also, I hope these challenges will get more interesting than "Do [x] damage". There's not much challenge in that, just time.
"Pounce [x] treshawks in flight.", "Get [x] double/triple/quad kills.", "Hit [x] humans with a single Charge/Jump.", "Get [x] reprisal kills" would all be better. Take some dexterity, precision, planning...
(Note: Nosgoth officially has no such thing as a "reprisal" but it consists in other games of killing an enemy moments after they themselves have scored a kill. I think it'd be a nice addition.)
While this is a much more interesting system, I agree, it also needs to be made sure that you can fulfil all of your daily challanges, without having the enemy be of a specific class. If you can't complete your challange, because after 10 games you couldnt find a single Treshawk to even pounce, then thats 1 more salty player



Challenges range in difficulty, from basic tasks like completing a few games to character and ability-specific tasks. For example, if you have the Deceiver unlocked, you might be tasked with landing 10 Backstabs. Player progress can be tracked on the main menu as well as in-game, as you move closer to those tantalizing rewards.
Please though, dont incentivice bad abilities.

The first thing I though when I saw the picture above was:
Great, teach more noobs to use pounce instead of getting them away from the useless abilities.
Backstab is another example. Dive Bomb... take your pick.
Theres a reason these abilities are virtually non-existant in high level play.


Otherwise, I love the basic idea of the system. Good job!

--Ram--
13th Feb 2016, 10:26
I like the idea, hopefully the rewards are actually substantial and not just trash.

Echoing what Da_Wolv said, I also hope that the challenges don't encourage bad play. There are a lot of terrible abilities in this game, they are ignored for the most part and for good reason. If this daily challenge system creates a flood of backstab deceivers, divebomb sents, jump tyrants and ground slamming vanguards (whatever that crap is called), well that will be very frustrating for the players who are actually playing to win.

To be honest I would probably prefer more generic challenges such as win a game, deal x damage, get y kills. These would still encourage play without encouraging goofy playstyles.

Da_Wolv
13th Feb 2016, 13:27
Echoing what Da_Wolv said, I also hope that the challenges don't encourage bad play. There are a lot of terrible abilities in this game, they are ignored for the most part and for good reason. If this daily challenge system creates a flood of backstab deceivers, divebomb sents, jump tyrants and ground slamming vanguards (whatever that crap is called), well that will be very frustrating for the players who are actually playing to win.


Exactly. I am already sick of ranked matches, where I have to explain over and over why certain classes/abilities should not be used.
I don't want the noobs to be 'allowed' to counter with "But my challange is to kill 10 humans with Backstab**"

** To that end: The stupid backstab achievement is already too much:
KILLING with backstabs from behind. Its already hard enough to land a real backstab (due to animation time and the loud warning sound) but its an opener ability, not a finisher.
So not only are you encouraging noob players to play with an objectively inferior ability, you also tell them to use to the wrong way - i.e. wait for your teammates to do damage and then get the kills with backstabs.
This will incentivice bad play and decrease teamwork.

Oh - and players like me will get even more pissed off at inferior players in ranked.

senjuj
13th Feb 2016, 15:04
can you keep old wheel as switchable option? pls.

Vampmaster
13th Feb 2016, 16:55
Exactly. I am already sick of ranked matches, where I have to explain over and over why certain classes/abilities should not be used.
I don't want the noobs to be 'allowed' to counter with "But my challange is to kill 10 humans with Backstab**"

** To that end: The stupid backstab achievement is already too much:
KILLING with backstabs from behind. Its already hard enough to land a real backstab (due to animation time and the loud warning sound) but its an opener ability, not a finisher.
So not only are you encouraging noob players to play with an objectively inferior ability, you also tell them to use to the wrong way - i.e. wait for your teammates to do damage and then get the kills with backstabs.
This will incentivice bad play and decrease teamwork.

Oh - and players like me will get even more pissed off at inferior players in ranked.

Wouldn't it be easier to just remove the inferior abilities all together or make the player with the highest skill responsible for choosing their teams loadout? I think a lot of the requests lately have been leaning towards the idea of having one specific team leader that must be obeyed, although I can't say that would be much fun for the rest of the team.

Or if abilities are inferior, maybe just balance them so they're not?

SonixSquad
13th Feb 2016, 18:13
Whilst I agree regarding Da_Wolv's point of encouraging use of the easier to use abilities (they're not really better - just more commonly used), you have to remember that not all players are looking to get into ESL levels and the game as a whole should not be balanced around ESL player perceived standards. They have ESL for that anyway (rulesets etc).

Countering Da Wolvs argument, instead of telling players (who are playing to have fun and win) not to use certain abilities because they are nub and not used by certain players, the game should be informing them of the best time to use those abilities in public matches.
One of the most frustrating things I found when starting in Nosgoth was that I didn't want to be just another 'Sweeping Kick' Reaver (the most common and over used Reaver attack) and this was accentuated by the fact that most players that perceive themselves as good think of abilities such as Savage Pounce or Leap as nubish and bad. I tried my damndest to master the Savage Pounce... I got real good at it (long range pounces without much time wasted aiming coordinated with other attacks).

However, what you come to realise is that versus better coordinated teams, it doesn't matter how good you can use an ability if the rest of your team is not backing you up or you are not coordinating with your team. So saying that an ability is bad because some teams that work well together prefer not to use it is just as bad as using a good (more commonly used) ability at the wrong time.
After months of resistance, I ended up using the Sweeping Kick. Why? Because it doesn't require as much team coordination, its EASIER to use (more forgiving in Public matches), not better. :p

What we should be encouraging with these daily challenges (or just in general) rather than basic "kill x vamps with x ability", is more like "land a Tyrant Jump on target after it has been infected by a deceiver". Encourage combos, teach combos. Yes, even with the abilities some may perceive to be bad.

Take it to the next level if you can.

"Land a [attack name] on target Human that has been [insert primary attack here] and [insert secondary attack here] within the last X seconds".

Now that would be really pushing the community in the right direction.

Ygdrasel
13th Feb 2016, 23:10
more like "land a Tyrant Jump on target after it has been infected by a deceiver". Encourage combos, teach combos. Yes, even with the abilities some may perceive to be bad.

Lot of combo potential with the Sentinel to be tapped that way.
And few abilities are actually bad (Judgement is though). They're just only as good as the player wielding them.

Oghamsmith
15th Feb 2016, 14:40
I'm REALLY not a fan of enforcing a specific meta and forbidding or discouraging any deviation from it. That kills innovation, and goes a long way towards causing the meta to stagnate.

While I understand the allure of being a min/max'er, plenty of people have more fun without doing that. Hell...some people are more effective with abilities that most would consider weak.

As for the notion of placing dependencies on teammates in order to be able to complete challenges. That's not something that we'll be doing right out of the gate, nor is it something that we have any specific plans to do right now. However I do like the idea of potentially adding team challenges, those could be pretty neat if done correctly.

Vampmaster
15th Feb 2016, 15:17
I'm REALLY not a fan of enforcing a specific meta and forbidding or discouraging any deviation from it. That kills innovation, and goes a long way towards causing the meta to stagnate.

While I understand the allure of being a min/max'er, plenty of people have more fun without doing that. Hell...some people are more effective with abilities that most would consider weak.

As for the notion of placing dependencies on teammates in order to be able to complete challenges. That's not something that we'll be doing right out of the gate, nor is it something that we have any specific plans to do right now. However I do like the idea of potentially adding team challenges, those could be pretty neat if done correctly.

What about monthly challenges with even bigger prizes? The daily challenge rewards could seem lackluster to those of us who've already maxed out their characters and unlocked everything else, so maybe they'd choose to get better items less often instead.

Personally, I'd rather leagues only offer cash and runestones and the in-game prizes like rare skins and items were moved over to a monthly challenge. If you did that, it would cause the low skill players to just stay in non-league to complete the challenges and the career gamers who are in it for the cash could enjoy gameplay on their own level without being bothered by those who just want skins and stuff.

HexMee
16th Feb 2016, 16:12
The challenges sound great and will be a great incentive for players from all levels to try out new/different stuff, overall fun.

But please for the love of god do NOT allow challenges to be completed inside league games. I feel like I'm already getting close to death by abnormally high blood pressure from having new people in my team "try out vanguard" and do absolutely nothing in the match because of their loadout being inferior to anything else in the game. And the worst part is when I try to be friendly and explain that another class with another loadout could help us win the game they almost always lash at me saying "it's only a game, I play for fun". First objective in ranked league should be to purely win the match, rest is secondary factors. It's beyond me how this is not clear to people when there is up to 1000$ on stake, and if you let people complete challenges like "get kills with pounce" in ranked you are giving incentive to players to intentionally play bad (ex: using pounce, which is strictly worse than its counterpart: savage pounce) in an environment where their teammates are giving blood sweat and tears to win and climb the ladder. Unacceptable.

Ysanoire
16th Feb 2016, 17:13
But please for the love of god do NOT allow challenges to be completed inside league games.

I know why you're suggesting this (I kinda expect people to do challenges in casual) but idk if we'd really want a hard lock on this: imagine you get a challenge to hex shot vampires or something similar that you do anyway and would just do itself, but you HAVE TO play casual games to complete it. Would be irritating. You'll always get the newbies anyway so I'd be for enabling challenges in ranked, I think.

TheDreamcrusher
17th Feb 2016, 07:39
This love affair with the roulette and gambling for random stuff in chests is so tiring. I'm not a fan. I wish I could pick what I wanted to get, like gold, after doing 3 or however many daily challenges and be done with it. The in-game store is really pretty good and I know exactly what I'm getting and when. Grinding more challenges to have more chances at a shot at something like crafting materials or gold is not appealing at all. I'm totally fine with gambling for a runestone voucher, runestones, or a skin from one specific chest, but I'd rather be allowed the chance to pick that chest as my end reward for daily challenges.

If we're going to be stuck with random rewards, I'd prefer something like the following. It'd be great if there was like a gold and materials chest, a booster and runestones and runestone discount voucher chest, a human weapon and vampire specials chest for uncanny, arcane, mysterious, and unique items, and a chest for skins, along with ability to pick which chest I wanted after doing my daily challenge requirement. The Treasures chests are pretty undesirable because of the extra junk like boosters, uncanny items, and arcane items but mysterious items aren't so bad to get. A little more illusion of control would go a long way.

Ygdrasel
19th Feb 2016, 00:33
"it's only a game, I play for fun"

My response to any barked orders to change class (haven't encountered the 'friendly' version very often, but it gets a better response), and I stand by it.
But at the same time, I also haven't ever touched league because 'fun' blatantly isn't the primary goal there. Who in their right mind goes into league with that mindset?



This love affair with the roulette and gambling for random stuff in chests is so tiring. I'm not a fan.

Nobody on the forum is a fan, judging by history. But the rest still buy this crap - and even some of its critics give in. It's awful.
As for chests, they definitely need more separation. A chest for skins and unique abilities. A chest for weapons (multiple, if segregating types). A chest for runes, vouchers, boosters. A chest for gold and materials.
If they're (SE) not willing to just kill the gambling element outright, they could at least create a slightly more level field by not cramming it all together.
And if at all possible, if the RNG could show less favor toward items already present in your inventory...

ParadoxicalOmen
19th Feb 2016, 02:05
It's not the result of feedback, they mentioned working on this project when they introduced daily rewards, and originally, they were both supposed to be in the game.

Aw... :(

TheDreamcrusher
19th Feb 2016, 02:52
I also haven't ever touched league because 'fun' blatantly isn't the primary goal there. Who in their right mind goes into league with that mindset?


We don't play leagues for fun, we play for pain. Bogoth.