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Travis_IO
11th Feb 2016, 17:40
Disguises, disguises, disguises.

They are a big part of any Hitman game. We've made some adjustments to how the HITMAN disguise system works compared to previous games. In short, they feel powerful but you need to watch out for Enforcers. They will be able to see through your disguise.

The game will explain this in the best way, so come back once you've played a little bit.

Valenka
12th Feb 2016, 01:10
I like the new system so far, much better than Absolution's execution. It feels accurate and legitimate; select members of security or staff (Enforcers, as you've said, Travis) are able to see through the disguise upon inspection as they know their workers. However, what I especially appreciate is the implementation of the "no one pays attention to the help" theme; where security seem to pay no mind when in a maintenance-like disguise. I'm looking forward to seeing how the AI react to various disguises in the main game!

Alex6897
12th Feb 2016, 11:25
I really enjoy this new system! Great step forward from Absolution, even better than Blood Money!
I just would like the act of disguising to take a little more time!

Alsharad
12th Feb 2016, 16:05
I like the new system but sometimes someone notices me even though I'm behind him. HOW DOES HE KNOW WHO I AM WITHOUT SEEING ME!

I'd like more blend in options like the bar.

MunchiesxD
12th Feb 2016, 16:25
Sorry.... I'm new around here. I would love to thank the Programmers/ designers!! The game engine looks tight!! Shading/ graphics are the Don! I only don't have the Beta... You want my expertise YOU PAY ME! Not vice versa! I do have some suggestions, but with BETA testing already in effect, i think my input would be misheard... If you need and experienced tester (that's actually gonna' help you shape the future of the HITMAN title!) please hook me up!

Good luck withe the title! (and fix the shooting cinematics! 47 looks like a 3yr old operating a DE .50!)

Peeeace!

MunchiesxD

radioteque
12th Feb 2016, 22:35
Much better than Absolution's system.

I've always liked the classic bar system the best, but I'm happy with the new system too.

LumpyLP
13th Feb 2016, 01:26
I really like the new system. The 'levels' of suspicion are nice, you're not immediately cooked if someone spots you. And the indicator showing who will see through your disguise is very low-key and non-intrusive.

Simt33
13th Feb 2016, 09:22
I'm always pretty quick to be critical, especially where I think it can really help the final game, but no - I have NO criticism, constructive or otherwise. Disguises totally makes sense, much more so than in Absolution and works great - I've never felt like I haven't been warned if I get rumbled.

Good job! :D

Alceringa26
13th Feb 2016, 13:52
Perfect best of any series. Unlike absolution if you're an officer not every officer recognizes you making exploration impossible, but it makes sense that one or two like the Lt would. Finally the most difficult part of the game design is perfected. Gives you freedom like blood money but just enough tension.

manicman
13th Feb 2016, 19:28
I think it's a good compromise between Blood Money's water-tight disguises and Absolution's overly-punishing system. It's necessary to know which NPCs will see through your disguise, so having little pointers over their heads makes sense.

Does the suspicion spike more quickly depending on how close you are to an Enforcer, and is it dependant on whether you are facing them or not? If not, I think this kind of subtlety in how quickly they bust you would add a lot and puts more control in the hands of the player in logical, tension-building ways.

Picture the scene: you have to pass near an Enforcer but you quickly move past so they can't see your face. The spike slows down. You're walking away, heading towards a corner where you can break line of sight. The needle has almost spiked, but you're putting some distance between the two of you, so it slows down further. It seems like you're not going to make it. You think about sprinting the last bit, but you know that sprinting makes NPC attention spike really quickly. Due to the distance and the fact he can only see the back of your head, the spike speed slows right down and you feel like you've made it out of sight by the skin of your teeth.

If that's how it works, great! It doesn't seem that obvious though so maybe the factors that affect the speed at which the NPC attention spikes needs to be made more obvious.

These tense, walking-speed encounters are a core element of Hitman so complexity and subtlety in how the detection mechanics work are vital.

LumpyLP
13th Feb 2016, 20:04
I think it's a good compromise between Blood Money's water-tight disguises and Absolution's overly-punishing system. It's necessary to know which NPCs will see through your disguise, so having little pointers over their heads makes sense.

Does the suspicion spike more quickly depending on how close you are to an Enforcer, and is it dependant on whether you are facing them or not? If not, I think this kind of subtlety in how quickly they bust you would add a lot and puts more control in the hands of the player in logical, tension-building ways.

Picture the scene: you have to pass near an Enforcer but you quickly move past so they can't see your face. The spike slows down. You're walking away, heading towards a corner where you can break line of sight. The needle has almost spiked, but you're putting some distance between the two of you, so it slows down further. It seems like you're not going to make it. You think about sprinting the last bit, but you know that sprinting makes NPC attention spike really quickly. Due to the distance and the fact he can only see the back of your head, the spike speed slows right down and you feel like you've made it out of sight by the skin of your teeth.

If that's how it works, great! It doesn't seem that obvious though so maybe the factors that affect the speed at which the NPC attention spikes needs to be made more obvious.

These tense, walking-speed encounters are a core element of Hitman so complexity and subtlety in how the detection mechanics work are vital.

I like this.

KeroroCanti
13th Feb 2016, 22:34
I definitely like this disguise system a lot. I'm especially grateful that the weird meter from Absolution is gone, and the fact that people who can recognize you are clearly marked is great. That was always one of the older game's bigger flaws: not being clear what the rules were regarding your costume. Haven't had any issues with this part of the game.

HolographicLotus
14th Feb 2016, 16:19
Does the suspicion spike more quickly depending on how close you are to an Enforcer, and is it dependant on whether you are facing them or not? If not, I think this kind of subtlety in how quickly they bust you would add a lot and puts more control in the hands of the player in logical, tension-building ways.



This would be awesome. Facing away from the guards should allow us more time to not be detected, which adds a new element to disguises. Meaning we would have to carefully position ourselves to not be detected.

Greig91
14th Feb 2016, 17:04
I think IOI got the disguise system pretty much spot on this time, but I do agree with manicman and HolographicLotus's suggestion that facing away from enforcers should slow down their suspicion growth a little.

I also think that running should speed it up, but that's a nitpick. Overall the new new disguise system is one of the biggest improvements IOI have made over Absolution in my opinion.

HolographicLotus
14th Feb 2016, 18:44
The new system allows us more freedom while retaining that tension when near by an enforcer.

However in the higher difficulty settings running past standard guards should provoke a little suspicion at least.

manicman
14th Feb 2016, 21:45
The new system allows us more freedom while retaining that tension when near by an enforcer.

However in the higher difficulty settings running past standard guards should provoke a little suspicion at least.

Performing suspicious actions such as running and - especially - ducking into cover should definitely spike the suspicion-o-meter. When passing within view of an enforcer it should be all about putting distance between the two of you and breaking line of sight as calmly and insouciantly as possible.

If you can just duck under a wall like that bit in There's Something About Mary when Mary clocks Ben Stiller has followed her to Miami then it's going to look as comical as that film. It should be like The Bourne Identity where he just keeps walking purposefully with his head down and slips away into the crowd.

manicman
14th Feb 2016, 22:30
The new system allows us more freedom while retaining that tension when near by an enforcer.

However in the higher difficulty settings running past standard guards should provoke a little suspicion at least.

Performing suspicious actions such as running and - especially - ducking into cover should definitely spike the suspicion-o-meter. When passing within view of an enforcer it should be all about putting distance between the two of you and breaking line of sight as calmly and insouciantly as possible.

If you can just duck under a wall like that bit in There's Something About Mary when Mary clocks Ben Stiller has followed her to Miami then it's going to look as comical as that film. It should be like The Bourne Identity where he just keeps walking purposefully with his head down and slips away into the crowd.

jayjasonjayman
14th Feb 2016, 22:44
The disguise system feels very right. I noticed one problem though. In the final test level, if you have a security guard uniform and you hop the fence and make your way all the way to the right, hop the next fence and jump the window into the compound, theres two other security guards sitting on a couch. One is an enforcer. The problem is that although hes looking straight ahead the whole time, the meter starts to spike. I even did some experiments with this guy. Not only does the meter start to spike when im roughly 100 degrees angled to the right of this guy (that means im essentially behind him), but the meter continues to spike when i turn around facing away from him. This particular security guard deserves a raise for being able to spot an intruder that is not only far behind his line of sight, but also turned away from him

Shahyd
15th Feb 2016, 04:07
This would be awesome. Facing away from the guards should allow us more time to not be detected, which adds a new element to disguises. Meaning we would have to carefully position ourselves to not be detected.

I second that. In the beta I was giving my back far away to an enforcer but he was still able to recognize me and at an incredible speed. It should be slowed down and it would be nice to see more their face reactions wondering etc and more blending spots which I hope will be numerous in the full game.

Except that I find the disguise system more balanced wich is great.

manicman
15th Feb 2016, 11:33
I did a bit more experimenting with this last night using a cop uniform on the two cops to the right of the starting spot on the Calvin Ritter mission, one of whom is an enforcer.

If you stand within his eyeline, the attention meter starts to spike. If you drop into cover, it goes away. If you stand up, it starts to spike again. So you can pop up and down like a jack-in-the box and this is somehow not suspicious. Really I'd like to see ducking into cover spike the attention meter.

Also, if I wanted to pass near this enforcer, doing so at about 10m distance at a walking speed meant I got busted, as it took too long. But if I sprinted, I was fine. So again, acting in what logically feels like a very suspicious way is actually less likely to get me busted than staying calm and purposeful.

Please IO, make suspicious activities like running and taking cover spike the attention meter, and reward players for keeping their face angled away from NPCs and getting some distance.

Tiarny
15th Feb 2016, 12:39
I really love the Enforcer mechanic. It's a great mix of the systems from Blood Money and Absolution, but I agree with what has been said above about the way guard's currently react to suspicious behaviour. I've been in cover next to a door, and guards don't seem to care despite it visually seeming really suspicious. I've crouched walked past them too, and ducked in and out of cover, and they didn't seem to mind all that much. Slowly walking past a guard shouldn't be the most suspicious way of moving through a room!

The guards forget you so quickly when you break line of sight that toggling in and out of cover is the easiest way to cross a room, despite it looking pretty crazy! If a guard is watching you and they see you go into cover then it should probably cause the meter to spike pretty quickly.

Paws47
16th Feb 2016, 06:30
I really like it so far, definitely on the right track, but does need to be tweaked a bit in regards to suspicious behavior, like others have said. One thing that bothered me was on the Final Test, I was disguised as guard and climbing out of the KGB officers window and onto the ledge, now the guard below saw me as I climbed out the window and watched, and his reaction to this unbelievably suspicious behavior was to comment "hey, hes doing agility, I don't know why it's call agility, but he's doing it" or something along those lines.

He wasn't an enforcer, and I like that they can't all see through disguises, but he is still a security guard! It felt so wrong to be getting away with such incredibly suspicious behavior, especially in front of GUARDS!

Asi1l01
16th Feb 2016, 09:41
Like it! period (lol)

hichanbis
16th Feb 2016, 10:01
The new disguise system is very good and fixes the broken absolution mechanic as well as improves the one from blood money.
However there's one little problem: If you play with all the helps disabled there's no way to know which NPC is an enforcer or not.
So I had to re-enable the NPC icon option.
Seeing all these white dots above heads (from a far distance) is kind of immersion breaking to me.

I would have prefered to being able to distinguish the enforcers from the others through their looks/dialogs/hints of some kind.

Funkybunches
16th Feb 2016, 18:27
I think Disguises are pretty good, but I think that dropped disguises should alert guards if they see them and you should be able to hide them a la bodies.
If there's a security outfit in the middle on of an office and no one notices... just my two cents.

Also if someone notices you in the yacht employees uniform and you "blend in", the entire room just keeps suspecting you ad infinitum. Rather immersion breaking and annoying.

RushXX
19th Feb 2016, 19:12
Disguises Bug:

Mission: the final Test

In the final test the Airfield security wear Green uniforms if you change the outfit the first time it is also Green.
If you change it to an Soilder and than back it is Blue!

Shredsss
19th Feb 2016, 21:21
Enemies see through my disguise, when I'm not facing them. They can recognize their every co-worker from their forehead? Wow.. Imo this takes away from the realism, they should not spot me if I'm wearing correct uniform with back turned to them. At least not nearly at same speed

I also dislike the sound it makes. Is that wind?

alexgrist
20th Feb 2016, 02:51
Only just started playing the Beta however something I noticed that was also a major issue with Absolution was the suspicion system; Disguised as a simple maintenance crew worker got me exposed and although I understand that it's because I was in front of them, would they really know everyone in that working group? It makes somewhat sense that the bodyguards would know who is also a bodyguard but I fail to understand why an unknown maintenance worker is suddenly a cause of alarm.

SkRalko
20th Feb 2016, 12:36
I think the new system is the right step into the future but on the other hand there are many things that you guys didnt think through ,like if some players want to turn off those senses cause they think its a cheat and would like to make the game as real as possible for them than there is no way how to distinguish between disguises of a low rank officer / agent from a high ranking just by looking at them (different uniforms, ranks on the uniform, conversations, etc., to identify them, now thats one problem with the Disguises the second one is you can hear people talking miles away, like really ? - I think we learned from the previous games that that is a huge anti immersion / mistake for a game to do that. Third you guys said that theres not gonna be any imagination bags which you partialy done but why not do it fully so that the game could feel more immersive and real, like taking a silver barel or garrote from just your jeans pocket ? xD lol and not to mention the animation the gun is on my back and i equip it and bua la its in my hands ..... AAA+ title....... like lol. I personally consider weapon hiding a part of disguise system cause you cant wear any weapon as a police officer, swat member etc. there are certain restrictions that you pointed out and i like that ! cause it also supports the lost and found weapon system.

So far the game looks promising and i cross my fingers for you devs that its gonna turn out to be a
next gen good hitman game !

Good luck, till the launch and thanks for reading my thoughts !
SkRalko

Pilchenstein
20th Feb 2016, 16:01
The disguise system is pretty great, though as mentioned it would be even better if distance and facing were factored in somehow.

GonWild
20th Feb 2016, 20:32
Disguises Bug:

Mission: the final Test

In the final test the Airfield security wear Green uniforms if you change the outfit the first time it is also Green.
If you change it to an Soilder and than back it is Blue!

Get the same loading saved game, from boat to cuba level.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/550933323090415532/3C75F565687CF43C7353D94F200F5FA7E4B65AB9/

NullQuery
20th Feb 2016, 23:29
One minor gripe is hiding bodies after disguising. In the first mission you're told to hide the body of a maintenance worker in a nearby bathroom. In the Final Test you can hide a body behind the car where you first spawn. But there is no indication of any kind that the body is now hidden. It would be nice if we could enable a hint that the current location qualifies as hiding a body, to avoid guesswork especially when trying to meet requirements such as "always hide bodies".

Pilchenstein
21st Feb 2016, 01:12
One minor gripe is hiding bodies after disguising. In the first mission you're told to hide the body of a maintenance worker in a nearby bathroom. In the Final Test you can hide a body behind the car where you first spawn. But there is no indication of any kind that the body is now hidden. It would be nice if we could enable a hint that the current location qualifies as hiding a body, to avoid guesswork especially when trying to meet requirements such as "always hide bodies".
I'm not sure what you're expecting here - if you put the body in a crate or locker or whatever then it's definitely hidden but behind a car? It's only hidden until somebody finds it and it's probably asking too much of the game to have it predict the future. :p

Joking aside, it's up to the player to decide if they think the body is well-hidden or not.

shivren
21st Feb 2016, 14:10
Since we're talking about disguises and the enforcer system is its buddy, let's talk about that too.

I'm not sure how I feel about the enforcer system.

I think it's a good system in theory and I was really glad it was getting introduced after the community wanted it for so long, but I had problems with it. Since I'm playing with the UI elements off, it ended up being a game of trial and error. I find myself inching every new room I'm entering, because I don't know if an enforcer is there or not. That would be easily fixable by introducing some kind of visual aspect to the NPCs models (just a different hat or a badge that I can spot from the distance), but since the enforcers seem to be different for every disguise, I couldn't think of an answer. My main worry is that this will end up being frustrating on bigger maps. I guess it's not really a problem with the enforcer system itself, but with the game not giving the player enough feedback if he decides to make things more challenging for himself.

You could say it's my fault for turning stuff off, but I think the game should be balanced never mind what kind of choices I end up making to spice up my experience.

The enforcer system also seems to bug out or I might not be understanding it correctly, but I had multiple occassions on which NPCs that didn't spot me before were spotting me and then went back to not caring. That happened mostly with the soviet soldiers and the KGB officer for some reason.

Phaxie
21st Feb 2016, 18:40
I'm very pleased with how the disguise system works in the new game. However, I too would like the action of disguising to take longer. Maybe make it so that it takes longer to disguise into the uniform of a person and shorter to disguise into an uniform on the ground? Realistically, that would make sense.

Also, how about giving the player the option to pick between the classic suspicion bar and the new auditory feedback swoosh thingy?

Restlichgeist
21st Feb 2016, 21:01
I really like the new disguise system, as most other Beta players seem to. A few things come to mind, though, which may or may not have been mentioned. I didn't read the entire thread; I thought that if others have said the same things, then I'll be supporting these suggestions by repeating them, making them more likely to make their way into the final game:

- The white dot on the Enforcers is, perhaps, a bit too "on the nose". I do think it should be visible in Instinct Mode, but it'd add to the immersion if there were other visual cues to help recognise the Enforcers more naturally when not in Instinct mode, such as slight differences in their uniforms. In addition, the player would have the possibility to turn the dots "always on", "always off", or "on in Instinct Mode".

- The Suspicion Indicator is, at times, too small. I sometimes have trouble figuring out the direction in which it is pointing.

- Bug?: When someone is suspicious of me and the suspicion is cleared by changing my disguise, for example, the Suspicion Indicator seems to do what it does when someone turns hostile, and points at the person who is now no longer suspicious of me. This is confusing.

- Being able to break the line of sight by hiding in a crowd be good, in my opinion.

- Distance should matter more when it comes to suspicion.

- Non-civilian NPCs should be more suspicious of actual suspicious activity. I should not be able to "disappear" by just ducking behind a crate and breaking the line of sight when someone is becoming suspicious of me and looking right at me. Anyone would become more suspicious of someone when they see him ducking behind a crate; or worse, repeatedly popping up and then going back behind it, yet the NPCs don't find that suspicious at all.

CorrosiveCarrot
22nd Feb 2016, 13:26
I like the system, it seems well balanced so disguises work well on their own without making you nearly invisible.

This is not directly related to disguises but social stealth in general, but the AI doesn't seem to mind you crouching everywhere. What that means is that there's never any reason to stand up because it's not any less suspicious than crouching and crouching allows you to hide behind tables and other small objects more easily.

BarryBobJones
22nd Feb 2016, 22:48
Clearly a step up from absolution's system. Though that's not really saying much I genuinely like the idea of a higher up knowing the entire crew where as a normal worker being none the wiser. It's a well done yet immersive system. The only problem is that most disguises have only 1-4 enforcers making it pretty easy to just run around freely and avoid them. This gets even worse when using the disguises that are impervious to enforcers such as the Captain of the ship or the KGB Officer as you can run basically anywhere, with no risk.

In short the system is good but pretty easy to outwit after a few hours of play.