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DeathDweller
11th Feb 2016, 03:48
Really this is getting annoying.Why everyone has free access to everything?We are at league 5.0 now and this is still going.Make the Recruit mode necessary in order to go further.I got so many new guys who couldn't play and when we asked them they answered i don't care i don't want to play this **** anyway.Except my own mistakes that caused loses and crashes in league i got about 40 loses from guys that don't care and either leave or can't compete in league.90% of top 100 have half of their matches lost and they are in the 100 cause they are grinding including me.I thought that you didn't want grinding in leagues as you said before.The only thing i can think of is that you do this to attract more players but this sends them away for me.New players come, they get rekt in league and then don't want to play anymore.All games i have played have a restriction at least to level 15.Do that and then make it to level 30 in order to compete in leagues if the player likes the game he ll stay .Giving hope for a cash prize they ll never see is a deceit cause no new player will get in the top 100 and together with them many skilled players who lose because of them.When a player carries 26 kills for example and still loses he gets -1 to -4.This is unexceptable.Do this or fix the mm or change the points system.It would be more fair if each player gets points for his contribution to the match.You could for example get as many points as the kills you make for a win and to lose as many deaths as you have if the match is lost or the final score above that is useless for the moment, u could make that count for points.That would also give players a reason to become better.That's all

Barbarossa1155
11th Feb 2016, 09:19
I totally agree to this. Tho I dont like the idea calculating the points won or lost based on statistics. It is true that skill can be measured by stats to some point but stats arent everything. Changing the point system like that just motivates people to play solo instead of as a team and thats clearly the opposite of what psyonix want i guess.

ParadoxicalOmen
11th Feb 2016, 16:43
The skill gap between new and veteran players is disturbing.

This is an issue that should be looked with more care by the devs....it scares away new players after all.

JebaoVasnick
16th Feb 2016, 17:26
Ok so whole day teams full of less than 100 hours players ?
Trolls, leavers, this is just a game, how do I throw as tyrant, i dont wanna play human i want to play as vampire players overwhelmed me in league .... but yet again who cares, seems developers don`t :wave:

ParadoxicalOmen
16th Feb 2016, 20:44
Wth do you want? To block new players from playing the game?

Jesus...the stuff some ppl complain about...

JebaoVasnick
16th Feb 2016, 22:07
U missed one big point --- LEAGUE ---- every game has rank limit for entering ranked matches, if you wanna troll go ahead but first learn to read

lucinvampire
17th Feb 2016, 13:46
I wish I could play with some noobs - I always end up complaining there's too many pros in Nosgoth!

SonixSquad
17th Feb 2016, 17:05
I wish I could play with some noobs - I always end up complaining there's too many pros in Nosgoth!

The game is full of them right now, which is a good thing for sure.
However, I agree League play should not be open as a choice for them till new players have earned some experience with more than 2 classes for a start. Wether you like to play that way or not, the success of your team is largely dependent on switching classes to counter pick the other teams strats.

A new player with 10 hours is not going to be able to do that and what happens is experienced players get lumbered with 3 inexperienced players (as some sort of weird balancing act due to population, I get it). It just ends up as a not very nice experience for everyone. Neither the new player (getting yelled at) or the veteran (getting tired of losing due to this) are not going to have a nice gaming experience and may choose to play smthng else.

The Division Open Beta starts on Friday :)

Vampmaster
17th Feb 2016, 17:28
The game is full of them right now, which is a good thing for sure.
However, I agree League play should not be open as a choice for them till new players have earned some experience with more than 2 classes for a start. Wether you like to play that way or not, the success of your team is largely dependent on switching classes to counter pick the other teams strats.

A new player with 10 hours is not going to be able to do that and what happens is experienced players get lumbered with 3 inexperienced players (as some sort of weird balancing act due to population, I get it). It just ends up as a not very nice experience for everyone. Neither the new player (getting yelled at) or the veteran (getting tired of losing due to this) are not going to have a nice gaming experience and may choose to play smthng else.

The Division Open Beta starts on Friday :)

Isn't it better to play as a class you aren't completely rubbish at than the one that is slightly better against the one the enemy have chosen? If the game really is balanced, then all classes should at least stand a chance against each other. At high level (and I mean skill, not hours or XP), where you've mastered all the classes (again, skill, not loadout) and have then sure, matching the counter classes will make the difference, but when you're mostly a console gamer and Nosgoth is the only really competitive shooter you play, it's better to choose a class that you can control well and at least get a few kills in there.

SonixSquad
17th Feb 2016, 18:20
Isn't it better to play as a class you aren't completely rubbish at than the one that is slightly better against the one the enemy have chosen? If the game really is balanced, then all classes should at least stand a chance against each other. At high level (and I mean skill, not hours or XP), where you've mastered all the classes (again, skill, not loadout) and have then sure, matching the counter classes will make the difference, but when you're mostly a console gamer and Nosgoth is the only really competitive shooter you play, it's better to choose a class that you can control well and at least get a few kills in there.

Better to play as a class you aren't completely rubbish with? Definitely. BUT, how good you are at a class can also vary greatly depending on your opponents ability to counter that class.
When playing versus any semi decent player, they will change class when things aren't working out to find that weak spot in your teams defenses/attacks. If you don't have any experience with the other classes, you better start getting some!
I would say that Hunter + Prophet should be learnt first, Reaver and Deceiver for Vamps. I see so many Alchemists and they are not always good versus fast moving Vamps especially Sentinels. Tyrants may look big and tanky, but they are glass cannons and go down fast when used at the wrong time (initiating with Tyrants can be very tough for inexperienced players).

Theres no such thing as a "better class".
Rock paper scissors. Its the formula most competitive games are based on, none are more op than the other but paper beats rock, rock beats scissors and scissors beats paper. Each one has its own advantages & disadvantages depending on the scenario they are used in, hence choosing the most suitable one to play with versus the other team will usually determine the result of the round/match.

All I'm saying is that, like any multiplayer game, until you know the map, the range of the abilities/guns etc, the most commonly used tactics and attacks you should be prepared to face, you do not know the game enough to be truly competitive at it.
You might have played all the maps in 10 hours several times and even won some. You may have even had fun doing that, great!
But do you know how to counter 4 Sentinels or 4 Scouts? Can you even land a Bola or hexshot? Most new players don't/can't without some training..

All of that can be learned by simply playing TDM instead of Leagues. Play, have fun and learn the game. Actually learn how to Bola Sentinels and the game becomes a ton more fun!
Competition like Leagues should be there for those who want to take their competitiveness to new heights versus other veterans and where new players will not be punished for being new players because there won't be any proverbial new players.

And if fun is more important than competition, perhaps you just want to rank up your Scout? Stick to playing TDM or one of the other new modes and don't spoil it for those who maybe want to play the game a bit more seriously (ie, Ultra competitive Leagues).
Thats my opinion on the matter anyway.

Phobophobian
18th Feb 2016, 12:32
I actually disagree with that. Newbie players who just started playing the game exist? Sure thing they do but in my opinion a lot of good players have come to the surface the last 2 months. It doesn't surprise me anymore to come across players who have half my hours but are probably as good as me.

Vampmaster
18th Feb 2016, 12:40
I actually disagree with that. Newbie players who just started playing the game exist? Sure thing they do but in my opinion a lot of good players have come to the surface the last 2 months. It doesn't surprise me anymore to come across players who have half my hours but are probably as good as me.

Same here. I have over 200 hours (9 days?) and still come across people far better with only something like 20 hours.

SonixSquad
18th Feb 2016, 13:09
I actually disagree with that. Newbie players who just started playing the game exist? Sure thing they do but in my opinion a lot of good players have come to the surface the last 2 months. It doesn't surprise me anymore to come across players who have half my hours but are probably as good as me.


Same here. I have over 200 hours (9 days?) and still come across people far better with only something like 20 hours.

In those 2 months, thos newbie players have accumulated experience and are now surfacing.
I have a stupid amount of hours, that does not automatically make me good by any means but it should mean I have more experience (than a fresh starter) with the maps and tactics.

There are above average new players for sure, who have some background in fast paced shooters and in fact noone said that all new players are bad :) Simply inexperienced with Nosgoth =/= bad. Being able to aim is a start, strafe/kite, situational awareness, all that is good stuff. But you still don't know the map until you have played it umpteen times.

Good is very relative to a number of factors such as who you or they are on a team with - as its a team game.
This whole **** you always hear in matches "lol I got 5k dmg, you are just ****" (as if 5k dmg is worth boasting about even) but I protected that player the whole match. :/ I could also just go Alch the whole round (not change class) and do 15k+ damage, that doesn't make me good, it makes me inexperienced and selfish (just trying to not look bad).

I'm an OK player (at least I can handle the basics of landing Bola/Hexshot on Sents & fast moving targets etc) but I cannot carry a team unless the other team are terrible. My strengths come from being part of a TEAM, not solo. I like using Eldritch and Hexshot to counter Sents for example but if my team hasn't got my back I will just get focussed by other Vamps while the rest of my (inexperienced) team are off getting distracted/chasing/poking too far and taken out.


So to summarise my point;

New players =/= bad players.
New players = inexperienced Nosgoth TEAM players.
Inexperienced players should be required to prove their TEAM knowledge and fight for a chance to play in leagues alongside more experienced TEAM players where the rewards are higher than in standard Public TDM.

This cash honeypot is drawing a lot of flies - which whilst being good for the game in its pre-release phase, is creating soem frustration in matchmaking. But we all know why that is (population etc).

I will say no more on the matter, feel like I'm repeating myself lol.

Heretic_13
18th Feb 2016, 15:15
It`s not about cash or skins(at least in my case- i bought the skins i wanted, and that`s it). Its about being teamed up with 3 guys having level 10-15(i am 50) against guys being firmly in Gold, or Silver. And while i did my best, and two or three times i was best in whole match(in situation i was only Blood out there) i lost and got penalty of 10 points. Why? Why i am being punished for my team that don`t know ****? What? Server "dosen`t see" what i did whole match? Score is this worthless? If i am am worst player in my team, and win, i recive least points, that how it should be, right? But no in Nosgoth. I don`t have heart to say to guys happy, they got 4-5 points, that i got 7-8 for being a cannon fodder. How this is fair?! To anyone?
But if i lost, the better i am, the worst penalty i get. Yesterday- i had team consisitng of people who were on thier back, mauled pretty much whole match. Out our 25 kills i scored 15. **** 15! That means way over 50% of damage was done by me alone- and i mean alone, because i had to take out two full(or almost full) health vampires by my lonely self, while rest of my crew was respawning. Or pounce the hell out of vanguard and prophet, because my team didn`t know they can push vampires back, or slow them down- try to rescue two vampires at the same time. Then we of course lost. Thier(my team) penalty was -3, -5 points tops. My was -10 for being number 1 among these losers. 3-4 matches work straight down the drain like this. Happened 2 **** times yesterday. Now i put you with people like this for 7/8 matches out of 10. I see you loosing your hard work every twenty minutes, and wonder what will you say then- will you be so happy to let these........ play with you. If you loosing badly, you shouldn`t be paired with good players. Let the loosers rot at the bottom of food chain. What else scores are for? Good and "OK" players should be able to take one another normaly.
I admit there is no greater joy for me than having adversary of my level. Matches then are really bloody and fierce, people are top of thier game all the time. It is far more satisfying to win, or even loose, knowing i did my best, against a team where worst member is about 100 exp behind leader, rather than watch one sided **** whooping

ParadoxicalOmen
18th Feb 2016, 17:06
The complaint about noobs is mostly unfair...especially now that 4-queue isn't allowed in Leagues.

The games tend to have equal number of new players in each team, and older players just like to blame them for not playing so well.
But really, the other team usually also has a new player but won anyhow.

Ultimately, unbalanced games happen independent if it has noobs or not...but the community is just whinny, and likes to blame someone else (with comment like "retard team ugh...*player has left the match*")

SonixSquad
18th Feb 2016, 17:20
The complaint about noobs is mostly unfair...especially now that 4-queue isn't allowed in Leagues.

The games tend to have equal number of new players in each team, and older players just like to blame them for not playing so well.
But really, the other team usually also has a new player but won anyhow.

Ultimately, unbalanced games happen independent if it has noobs or not...but the community is just whinny, and likes to blame someone else (with comment like "retard team ugh...*player has left the match*")

Good point, its true. Both teams get random new players (IF they queued solo). However mostly within League, players team up to avoid that as much as possible although I do know players who will queue solo.

LOL I see so much of that, sometimes even when your team is in the lead ffs. Happened to me yesterday night, first half, we slaughtered the Vamp team as Humans. Massive point difference, something like 15 - 30. Second half a guy on our team just left mid match, I could not believe it. Now 3v4, we lost. I could understand if we lost first half badly, second half looks like a time waste?, cya. But this attitude I don't get. He didn't crash because he said smthng before he left, can't remember what.

These sorts of players are worse than inexperienced players IMO.

Zimmeeh
19th Feb 2016, 12:46
Matches normally consist of 2 Eternals and 2 Silver - gold players, so in the end its not a match of skill but a fight between who is the better carry and who drew the short straw and got the one who is gonna contribute 1k damage and ten deaths, frustrating to win and gain 3 points, and on loss you might lose anywhere from 4-12 points, such is life. But im sure Psyonix and/or SE have thought about this already and deemed it better to do it this way instead of making Eternals wait 10-30 minutes for a single match. im sure all the QQ about matchmaking will end with the Full release. Peace out

TheDreamcrusher
19th Feb 2016, 17:55
im sure all the QQ about matchmaking will end with the Full release. Peace out

I have very serious doubts about that, but I guess time will tell. Not about the crying part, but whether matchmaking actually improves with a higher population.

senjuj
19th Feb 2016, 19:03
im sure all the QQ about matchmaking will end with the Full release.
hope and wait.:)
i dont know how devs can improve this awful mm. probably using solo mm, 5 min of searching time and only absolute number of winning games (anowg). in lobby 4 players with highest anowg randomized between two teams. same for 4 players with lowest anowg.:rolleyes:

Ygdrasel
19th Feb 2016, 20:22
Maybe your complaints would be more considered if you didn't seriously say "noob".

EiraScarlet
26th Feb 2016, 13:30
So I've been playing league, I've done 155 matches, and I've seen different fail teams as well as fair teams. Anyone can have a bad day and play badly, however there is this occasional person who appears in my team, and other peoples teams that appears as he/she just downloaded the game 5 minutes ago and jump straight into league. It would be very strange if a person who normally knows how to play but is having a bad match, would stand in a scouts volley with 10% health and execute a corpse just to die, instead of dragging the corpse out of the volley, or wait for the volley to finish (and several other mistakes), so I assume he's new to the game.

Do you need to be a certain level to do league? If not, it should be implemented, for example minimum level 30 or 40. These newbies who dosent know how to play ruin the league and makes it unbalanced for other people.

R3dLine237
3rd Mar 2016, 11:35
Make the noobs come to league just make parties 4 stack no more force **** players that "don't care" upon me! I don't even need that trash human thinking like that in my team. Idc if ESL teams win always 1st places they don't hack so who cares? Make noobs be where they should be which is not blood rank. But they get pro ESL players that have to carry them due to **** mm system. Why?!

Psyonix_Ryan
4th Mar 2016, 04:27
I mean, I'm still passable as a teammate and I have less than 100 hours (at least on my public profile).

Ultimately it is difficult to say that new players will be inherently bad at the game. Some players can pick up the game mechanics faster than others while some more "seasoned" players might still be barely functional with a mouse and keyboard *coughChriscough*

At the very last, the lowered requirement is a temporary change, and something that can be tweaked over time. While the initial play of new players may be low, exposure to higher-level players can ultimately benefit them and the community at large.


I wish I could play with some noobs - I always end up complaining there's too many pros in Nosgoth!

I'll play against you :D