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View Full Version : What Undertale can teach us about LiS's Downer Endings



Corinth
21st Dec 2015, 03:25
I'm not going to spoil the ending of Undertale, but I will give a brief gist of what I mean.

Undertale, like LiS, gives you a lot of freedom to Be Yourself. There's the "easy" way through the game (until you get to the end LOL), but then there's the "Good" ending that you really have to work for.

By work, I mean, you need to realize what is going on, you have to actually go against what would be logical for an RPG (and doing so makes the game more difficult), but you get well-rewarded (if you didn't take the easy way first to its conclusion, that is).

Undertale teaches us that yes, sometimes the Hero, through sheer willpower, can and will save the day, and it is oh-so-awesome when they do.

It gave you characters that you would get attached to. There's probably SOMEBODY in Undertale you will fall in love with.

But unlike LiS, they don't force you down certain paths (unless of course you really really want to be utterly evil).

Undertale gives you the freedom to choose your ending (once you figure out what's going on) unless you prove yourself to be heartless from the start (then the game gives you what told it that you really want, even if you try otherwise).

We could really learn something from this. No, it is not bad for a game to give you a "EarnYourHappyEnding" trope (TvTrope, obviously). It actually feels awesome to EarnYourHappyEnding.

Just like Max, the main character in Undertale refuses to give up, no matter what, and goes out and accomplishes their goals.

If only LiS had done that.... it woulda been a far more awesome game. I'm tired of developers saying "But happy endings are so old and overdone...."

Games have multiple endings for a reason. Nothing wrong with earning a happy one.

UNKLEPhilosophy
21st Dec 2015, 13:41
I'm not going to spoil the ending of Undertale, but I will give a brief gist of what I mean.

Undertale, like LiS, gives you a lot of freedom to Be Yourself. There's the "easy" way through the game (until you get to the end LOL), but then there's the "Good" ending that you really have to work for.

By work, I mean, you need to realize what is going on, you have to actually go against what would be logical for an RPG (and doing so makes the game more difficult), but you get well-rewarded (if you didn't take the easy way first to its conclusion, that is).

Undertale teaches us that yes, sometimes the Hero, through sheer willpower, can and will save the day, and it is oh-so-awesome when they do.

It gave you characters that you would get attached to. There's probably SOMEBODY in Undertale you will fall in love with.

But unlike LiS, they don't force you down certain paths (unless of course you really really want to be utterly evil).

Undertale gives you the freedom to choose your ending (once you figure out what's going on) unless you prove yourself to be heartless from the start (then the game gives you what told it that you really want, even if you try otherwise).

We could really learn something from this. No, it is not bad for a game to give you a "EarnYourHappyEnding" trope (TvTrope, obviously). It actually feels awesome to EarnYourHappyEnding.

Just like Max, the main character in Undertale refuses to give up, no matter what, and goes out and accomplishes their goals.

If only LiS had done that.... it woulda been a far more awesome game. I'm tired of developers saying "But happy endings are so old and overdone...."

Games have multiple endings for a reason. Nothing wrong with earning a happy one.

I hate happy endings :) its ****ty fairytale...

Corinth
22nd Dec 2015, 04:05
I hate happy endings :) its ****ty fairytale...

Nothing in Undertale forces you to go to the happy ending, though. That's the whole point of my post -- LiS could have give you the free choice between the 2 endings we have now, and an "Earn Your Happy Ending" that you would only see if you really REALLY work for it.

Of course if you don't like happy endings.... then don't.

Just like in Undertale. If you enjoy the evil side, and miserable endings, there's plenty of ways to be entirely evil (though you run into a ridiculously powerful roadblock at the very end if you try it).

UNKLEPhilosophy
22nd Dec 2015, 12:23
Nothing in Undertale forces you to go to the happy ending, though. That's the whole point of my post -- LiS could have give you the free choice between the 2 endings we have now, and an "Earn Your Happy Ending" that you would only see if you really REALLY work for it.

Of course if you don't like happy endings.... then don't.

Just like in Undertale. If you enjoy the evil side, and miserable endings, there's plenty of ways to be entirely evil (though you run into a ridiculously powerful roadblock at the very end if you try it).

I don't want wanna buy a game like that, undertale is different... at this rate, The last of us is a garbage game for you! if you don't like endings like LIS have. but I do I like the last of us ending and LIS endings too, happy ending and "EVIL" endings is boring and getting too old.

Tataboj
2nd Jan 2016, 12:24
There is a huge difference between these two games. Undertale is an RPG. Life is Strange is a movie adventure game. RPG focuses on gameplay and freedom, whilst movie adventure focuses on film-story experience and overall experience.
"Earn Your Happy Ending" is that gameplay-ish style, but what LiS really wants is to give you a STORY, and stories are also sad.

Autumn22
4th Jan 2016, 22:31
To me, that would go against the whole theme of the game. What Max realized after all her attempts at "fixing" the past was that no matter how hard she works to make it better all she ever does in the end is "f*** it up." (as she says throughout the final episode).

I think what you're asking for is a completely different game.

I thought of Undertale too when I finished Episode 5. But I had the opposite reaction. The LiS ending is everything I wanted the Undertale ending to be. For me, it was the Undertale endings that was supremely dissapointing. I felt like where it lacked any sort of logic in its attempt to make me sad or guilty or happy, LiS masterfully conveyed Max's perceived good intentions leading to nothing but death.

I think it's Undertale that has a lot learn from Life is Strange

cryofpaine
30th Aug 2016, 10:11
This would have worked so well, if they did it right.

The first clue comes from Nightmare Max. One of the first things she says to you is calling you out on how you tried to control everyone and everything. You progress through the game by talking to someone, not getting it quite right, finding out some new piece of information, rewinding, and trying it again until you get it right. All the time, except one.

You can't do that when you're on the roof with Kate. You get one chance to talk her down, based on everything you know about her. Yes, you used your powers to learn some of that, but it's still up to you to put it together and figure out what to say to get her to come down. Why is that?

Why is a question that is currently unanswered about a lot of things, not least of which is the whole premise. Why give you these powers if using them will kill everyone you care about? Why bother having you save Chloe if you're forced to let her die to protect everyone else?

I think the endings make sense taken on their own. They represent removing all those alternate timelines, either by pruning them by killing everyone, thus ending their personal timelines; or by never creating them in the first place by never using your powers.

And that explains Kate as well. You have to talk her down in one take because (for some reason), she can't have an alternate timeline for her. She has to either live or die. And the only way to do this is to make it her choice. No rewinding means no alternate timelines, and no manipulation means she is making an organic decision, not one that is essentially forced on her.

Nathan could have worked the same way. Like Kate, you've used your powers to gather a lot of information about him this week. So, use it. Convince him to surrender and testify against Mr. Jefferson. But do it without any rewind. You get one shot, and you live with the consequences. I think if they had given you that option, you would have had a better ending. One that makes clear the other endings (which would be available), and ties back to other elements and moments in the game.