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KaininitePriestess
16th Dec 2015, 11:35
So I know you guys have all probably noticed that there's in increase in negativity and toxicity on the forums as of late. The mods put out a big modpost against it a while back, but it seems to have only gotten worse since then.

So what do you guys think we as the players could do that would help increase the positive atmosphere and limit the constant bickering and screaming at each other, because I have to admit: None of the bugs or glitches in the game are driving me away from Nosgoth. The horrible community is. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Let's get some ideas about what can be done to make this a happier place!

And no, I'm not talking about things like "FIX THE BUGS!" "PUT SUCH-AND-SUCH IN THE GAME!" etc. Those are feedback and suggestions for the devs. I'm talking about us as the non-dev/mod forum-goers.

Louves
16th Dec 2015, 13:39
So I know you guys have all probably noticed that there's in increase in negativity and toxicity on the forums as of late. The mods put out a big modpost against it a while back, but it seems to have only gotten worse since then.


Talking about toxicity; the real toxic people are not even active on the forums. They are out there "playing" the game or should I rather say "stay rage afk and tell their teammates to kill themselves or get cancer"? You can still not mute them in the chat.


None of the bugs or glitches in the game are driving me away from Nosgoth.

That's good for you, I am serious, if the bugs, glitches and lags don't bother you than that's great for you. BUT the majority of people I know are annoyed by it. And not only by that also the devs behaviour is terrible. They don't even bother to talk to us directly anymore, instead now we have to talk to community managers without any technical knowledge (Coreys and Gregs last posts are from the 19th May and Erics from the 18th June ).


Most of the people you call toxic are just worried about the game. It's dying - can't even get 1k players at the peak time. (http://steamcharts.com/app/200110) And all SE is giving us is new chests. I am just waiting for the new winter chests. Probably with the Bloody Surviver Alchemist skin. There are tons of better games out there - games with better communities, better developer interactions, more and faster progress, better game updates, less bugs, etc. Some people are just getting sarcastic out of desperation, others get angry and hostile but none of us would be still here if we would not love this game.

I for my part play this game since February 2014, but I am taking a break from it now since it just makes me sick right now. I have around 1800 hours on my steam account in this game and around 35 days played in actual matches (that's just 1k hours of starring at a lobby :p ). I tried to support this game as good as I could, defended it in forums of some german videogame magazines, translated the entire lore into german, created a wiki with all abilities and with screenshots of all banners (everything translated) and translated every single patchnote since April 2014 (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=17023). I put hundreds and hundreds of hours into supporting Nosgoth. But I just got dissapointed over and over again. Also, everything is gone now since the guy that started the community website shut the site down. He was not interessted in Nosgoth anymore. Like many others. We had about 70 members I believe, just 3 or 4 guys are even playing Nosgoth anymore. But enough of my whining now, just wanted to point out that not everybody is just a toxic troll when he or she criticise the game or the devs or SE.

I wish you good luck in your attempt to improve the atmosphere in this forums. Maybe one of the 20 people who are still active here will come up with a good idea.

KaininitePriestess
16th Dec 2015, 14:44
Talking about toxicity; the real toxic people are not even active on the forums. They are out there "playing" the game or should I rather say "stay rage afk and tell their teammates to kill themselves or get cancer"? You can still not mute them in the chat.



That's good for you, I am serious, if the bugs, glitches and lags don't bother you than that's great for you. BUT the majority of people I know are annoyed by it. And not only by that also the devs behaviour is terrible. They don't even bother to talk to us directly anymore, instead now we have to talk to community managers without any technical knowledge (Coreys and Gregs last posts are from the 19th May and Erics from the 18th June ).


Most of the people you call toxic are just worried about the game. It's dying - can't even get 1k players at the peak time. (http://steamcharts.com/app/200110) And all SE is giving us is new chests. I am just waiting for the new winter chests. Probably with the Bloody Surviver Alchemist skin. There are tons of better games out there - games with better communities, better developer interactions, more and faster progress, better game updates, less bugs, etc. Some people are just getting sarcastic out of desperation, others get angry and hostile but none of us would be still here if we would not love this game.

I for my part play this game since February 2014, but I am taking a break from it now since it just makes me sick right now. I have around 1800 hours on my steam account in this game and around 35 days played in actual matches (that's just 1k hours of starring at a lobby :p ). I tried to support this game as good as I could, defended it in forums of some german videogame magazines, translated the entire lore into german, created a wiki with all abilities and with screenshots of all banners (everything translated) and translated every single patchnote since April 2014 (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=17023). I put hundreds and hundreds of hours into supporting Nosgoth. But I just got dissapointed over and over again. Also, everything is gone now since the guy that started the community website shut the site down. He was not interessted in Nosgoth anymore. Like many others. We had about 70 members I believe, just 3 or 4 guys are even playing Nosgoth anymore. But enough of my whining now, just wanted to point out that not everybody is just a toxic troll when he or she criticise the game or the devs or SE.

I wish you good luck in your attempt to improve the atmosphere in this forums. Maybe one of the 20 people who are still active here will come up with a good idea.

I didn't create this thread to start a wank-on-the-devs party and I said that in my OP. Again. That happens enough in other threads, and I'm talking specifically about the toxic behavior on the forums. I know there are bad people in the game and I report them when I encounter them. I'm talking about how we, as a community, stop acting so toxic and vile and rage-filled no matter what happens. I've had my own negative feedback to give to the devs on certain things, and I've done that, and I've tried to be constructive and polite with my feedback. I'm not saying we have to agree with them all the time, I'm just saying that they are not the source of the problem here.

Every update is met with hostility and rage for no reason. The devs make updates and bug fixes? It's not good enough, they're slacking off, they need to work harder, etc etc etc. The devs put in a new feature? That's not good enough, you need to be working on such-and-such more and don't put in things like this! The devs try and explain reasoning behind things or try and make amends somehow? It's never. good. enough.

Which leads me to believe that even if the game does have bugs and things that need to be worked on, there's a problem in the community itself that is absolutely vile and toxic and we need to find a way to fix that and be less hostile towards everything that happens!

So I'm asking again. WITHOUT GOING INTO A DEV-BASHING RANT. What can we, the community do together, to be less hostile and have a more welcoming, inviting interaction here? Because it sure as heck isn't working as it is!

So let's put aside our opinions of the devs right here, right now, and talk constructively together about how we can be less toxic! Take the devs out of it! Don't even think about the devs! WHAT CAN BE DONE TO MAKE THIS PLACE LESS OF A WRETCHED, VILE HIVE OF FILTH???

Vampmaster
16th Dec 2015, 14:49
Maybe copy all the bug fixes from the patch notes into one thread so that no one can claim there haven't been any.

KaininitePriestess
16th Dec 2015, 14:50
Even when that's brought up, it's still been brushed off as not good enough. :/ I've sadly seen that happen. Though maybe if there was an official, sticky thread of all of the to-date bug fixes that got updated regularly?

Vampmaster
16th Dec 2015, 14:52
Even when that's brought up, it's still been brushed off as not good enough. :/ I've sadly seen that happen. Though maybe if there was an official, sticky thread of all of the to-date bug fixes that got updated regularly?

That's what I meant, except I forgot to include the sticky part.

KaininitePriestess
16th Dec 2015, 14:59
That's what I meant, except I forgot to include the sticky part.

Ah, that makes sense, then, yeah. I...guess I could slog through the update posts and include them all in one big post? Though I don't know if the mods would want to leave that up to one of them or not. :|a

Endsequenz
16th Dec 2015, 16:27
I am pretty sure Louves is with you.

Also it is correct, that it has to be a bit more from the side you donĀ“t wanna talk about, to get it where you want it.
At the end of the day this is the Nosgoth forum.
A lot of ppl are really into Nosgoth, sometimes it seems to go upwards in things like doing what the ppl want, but then again things happen nobody asked for.
Of course people will get mad about that, cuz they think/see that the route is not (totally) going the way the active players would like to see it.
I guess that is why we are still in beta.

But yes, the problem is on both sides. Sadly there are some players around that are the way they are.
This combined with huge skill gaps, bugs, slow/baby/half-steps and wrong turns, money, blood and vampires... makes it very hard for nosgoth to grow, i think.

What can we do about that?
Well we can shut up and hope for a miracle I guess, at least that is what I am doing now.
There is enough feedback to work on for both already, maybe it will get more active here and ingame or the tone might change as some of that will be done.
We will see.

I see what you are trying, I am not sure about that in matter of sence.

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endsequenz - now giving out free relaxing christmas massages@room

KaininitePriestess
16th Dec 2015, 19:49
The thing is, it's debatable whether or not the devs have been doing a poor job or not! It's all subjective, it's people's attitudes that are in question. Not everyone thinks the Devs are angels, but on the flipside, not everyone thinks the Devs are the spawns of Satan, either. What I'm trying to see is how we change the behavior of our community, regardless of our opinion on things, and stop being so flipping rude and vile and toxic to everyone.

That's really all I'm getting at. I know some people aren't happy with the way things are going. But that doesn't excuse absolutely terrible behavior.

SonixSquad
16th Dec 2015, 20:47
Some of you guys n gals have been around here longer than me, probably long enough to have noticed the forums go through phases and get toxic etc. I generally visit the forums of a game that I end up playing for more than a few hours to see if I can pickup some inside knowledge and tips. If I like the game and its still in development, I like to contribute ideas (albeit sometimes they are not well received and can be seen as unnecessary. Some just don't get it).
Rarely have i visited a gaming forum, especially one in alpha/beta, and not seen toxic behaviour coupled with elitist attitudes.
I'm not saying its right, but its the nature of the beast.

Go to any support forum, you will mostly see complaining because most people who visit forums see them as exactly that.
A medium to get their anger/rage/view/self righteous opinion/elitist requirements across to the devs.
I have lost count, as I'm sure some of you have, of the amount of alphas & betas I have been in and been active on the forums.
Its always the same story...

Wolf_the_Legend
16th Dec 2015, 23:54
to calm the community down, ppl need to play less nosgoth, if ppl play less nosgoth the community gets smaller, if the community gets smaller we have less toxic ppl in the forums.

hint:


btw ... loves is right, ppl complain because they care and not because they hate the devs :rolleyes:

KaininitePriestess
17th Dec 2015, 06:08
Some of you guys n gals have been around here longer than me, probably long enough to have noticed the forums go through phases and get toxic etc. I generally visit the forums of a game that I end up playing for more than a few hours to see if I can pickup some inside knowledge and tips. If I like the game and its still in development, I like to contribute ideas (albeit sometimes they are not well received and can be seen as unnecessary. Some just don't get it).
Rarely have i visited a gaming forum, especially one in alpha/beta, and not seen toxic behaviour coupled with elitist attitudes.
I'm not saying its right, but its the nature of the beast.

Go to any support forum, you will mostly see complaining because most people who visit forums see them as exactly that.
A medium to get their anger/rage/view/self righteous opinion/elitist requirements across to the devs.
I have lost count, as I'm sure some of you have, of the amount of alphas & betas I have been in and been active on the forums.
Its always the same story...

Then that needs to change. When did having common decency become unusual? I have to say, if this type of mentality is normal, then I want absolutely nothing to do with any gaming community other then Nosgoth, and Nosgoth only gets my continued dedication because I love the game - and the series - so darn much.

And I still say that you can express your concerns and desires to see the game become better without being a vile, hateful jerk to everyone around you, especially and including the people who are making this free-to-play game you care about so much. Show some flipping respect, it's not that hard!

Lord_Aevum
17th Dec 2015, 13:45
I am not sure I agree with the premise of the thread. Nosgoth's forum community is nothing out of the ordinary in my experience, and a long way away from anything I'd ever characterise as horrible, wretched, or vile (insofar as anyone is able to judge communities as gestalt entities, at least). The vast majority of feedback I've seen has been valid, constructive, and founded in reason.

Generally, I think it's fair to say any discussion board is reflective of the state of the subject matter. It's true that development on the game has ostensibly slowed down, and the Steam charts evince declining activity. Many users (paying customers included) are frustrated by these and other issues, and lobby for the changes they feel are warranted. From the moderation perspective, they have every freedom to do so as long as their messages adhere to the confines and spirit of the ToU.

Some members have proven unable to express themselves appropriately, but (as on any discussion board) they are subject to sanctions, and unrepresentative of the more measured whole. I can only speak for myself, but I don't think the proportion of unconstructive posts in relation to constructive ones is remarkable or unanticipated right now.

It's true that demanding and passionate behaviour can cross over into hostility from time to time. And I do deeply appreciate the heart of your effort to promote a welcoming atmosphere and higher standards of respect around here, KaininitePriestess, but I feel it's misguided to react in this way, like for like, by condemning other members and the wider fanbase as a means to that end.

-Shiro-
17th Dec 2015, 16:04
I really love this game, so I respect and somehow admire the devs' work on it, for sure. I always try to balance my critics and, of course, to be correct in style and content.

People playing the game for hundreds of hours and spitting on it are hypocrites. On the other hand, it's not because you're really into it that you have to agree or appreciate everything, of course. The game is still in development, and I'm sure most of the people here just want to contribute honestly and try to make it better.

First thing first : responsability. SE have a lot to say. It is always good to remind from time to time, because I'm sure that a lot of decisions don't come from the devs themselves. I really don't know, at this point, what's the purpose of everything people are doing here, if SE doesn't listen and adapt. You have to admit that a lot of bad decisions have been made, and I'm not here to remind them all (but chests). I think the main problem for a while now is some kind of bad allocation and timing of duties.

This is a competitive PvP : frustration is perfectly logical. It's a good thing and nothing the dev's can't deal with, for sure. People are playing this game for different reasons, so it's a bit unrealistic to expect them to be all love and kisses ('I love this game, devs are awesome, I want to give them my money so much and playing with my dear friends is so great'-type). In our case, frustration is out of control these days : people are very disappointed by multiple and repetitive letdowns (atm, mainly league, bugs and lag).

What we can read here is most of the time only the top of the iceberg, as a lot of players will simply not care enough to try to make a change. They'll complain ingame, with friends and eventually never touch the game again. When some old bugs and all the lag/hitreg issues will be fixed, we will read waaay less complains here. In other words, if there is a lot of complains here, there's way more ingame = in fine, way less players ingame.

A partial solution ? I'm asking for a better direct communication between the devs and their playerbase for a while now. Ryan and Oghamsmith (and mods, ofc) are doing a great job, sincerely, but from time to time it would be great to get a better view on what's going on. I'm a bit tired of the "we don't want you to expect something we can't do, so we can't tell you at the moment" speech. Use conditional and relativity, be unclear as a precaution all you want, but communicate, please. Examples : the recent launcher announcement, the new sentinel ability, the new classes, even the new map.

Most of the time, we have informations about these at max two-four weeks before their release (considering that there's not a ton of novelties). It's not enough to keep people interested, so they complain and just fall into negativity. If they don't see any positive (explained/showed/detailed) things to be excited about coming in the (near) future, they'll just keep complaining about and focus on the negativity they're experiencing regularly ingame. You can tell us about the incoming things even if you can't show them to us. You can show them to us even if they're not finished - (I'm aware of the incoming dev stream).

I mean : let's take the new classes, for example. They're not coming soon ? Ok, but impatient people feel neglected on the top of it, because they know absolutely nothing about them.

Finally, there's simply no perfect solution pleasing everyone. We saw that very recently with the full premade league. I've read a lot of people asking for it in the past ("isn't a game about teamplay ?"), and now that we got it, another load of people are complaining about it ("oh my dog, so unfair, ESL everywhere"). I'm not saying one of the two parts is right/wrong, but it's for sure dichotomous.

N.B. : some people are simply impossible (http://www.wikihow.com/Deal-With-Impossible-People). Just ignore them.

PS : eventuali soreh for bed ingresh

Varulven
11th Jan 2016, 16:06
I have to admit that I got quite toxic, too. But how else to deal with those people who take every opportunity to call you names that I can't tell you here? I'm just mirroring their behaviour, showing them their own face.
And... it works ;)
Just sayin': If you're nice, I am nice. If you are a jerk, I'm a jerk. I am the mirror to your soul...

Oghamsmith
1st Feb 2016, 17:16
Hello there folks,

This thread was originally created to discuss ways to counter negativity that you might come across in-game. Please refrain from dedicating entire posts to detailing the kind of content that ticks you off personally. Regurgitating that kind of content on the forum can result in you receiving a suspension, which we would rather avoid having to do.

If you come across abusive players in-game, please feel free to report them at support.nosgoth.com. Responding back to them in a similarly abusive manner may result in you receiving a suspension. It doesn't matter who started the abusive behavior, if you're both dishing it out, you're both wrong.

Varulven
1st Feb 2016, 22:07
If you come across abusive players in-game, please feel free to report them at support.nosgoth.com. Responding back to them in a similarly abusive manner may result in you receiving a suspension. It doesn't matter who started the abusive behavior, if you're both dishing it out, you're both wrong.

Would be easy if we were emotionless machines, but we're all human and it can happen that someone can feel to be forced to respond in such manner. Some of those jerks don't understand a different language than jerkish ;)

To counter negativity and abusive behaviour against other players in game: Add an ignore chat funktion. If I can't read that rubbish I can't respond. Quite simple :)

Ygdrasel
1st Feb 2016, 22:37
someone can feel to be forced to respond in such manner

That someone would be incorrect.

A simple ignore/block function is a standard feature of basically any chat system, part of a game or otherwise, and ought to be included in Nosgoth as well on that basis. But the implication that merely reading something forces you to respond is itself rubbish.

Varulven
1st Feb 2016, 23:56
That someone would be incorrect.

A simple ignore/block function is a standard feature of basically any chat system, part of a game or otherwise, and ought to be included in Nosgoth as well on that basis. But the implication that merely reading something forces you to respond is itself rubbish.

Then welcome to the human world, Mr Robot ;)
If you're that emotionless, then teach me how you do it. I'd like to be Vulcan :D