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Binro_the_Heretic
1st Jul 2002, 01:34
I know certain peeps will leave if they don't find adequate or desired facilities on your station but does anyone know for sure if the facilities you build determine how many of which type of alien comes through your ports?

I only ask because that's the way it used to work in the old "Dungeon Keeper" games. Certain creatures would only come through the portals if you constructed certain rooms.

I just noticed today after starting a new sandbox and totally neglecting the bio-deck (didn't even hire one token karmarama to plant some things just made a lake for swimming and that was it) there were only five karmaramas on board but dozens each of the other races. Could a lack of plants have kept the karmaramas away?

Pinky the Cow
1st Jul 2002, 07:54
Either a peeps00.txt or mish.txt

set grey_max ((segmentdecks + 8) - (penance_suit_count / 2))
set targ_max ((segmentdecks + 8) - (penance_suit_count / 2))
set siren_max (((segmentdecks + 6) / 2) - (penance_suit_count / 2))
set male_siren_max (((segmentdecks + 6) / 2) - (penance_suit_count / 2))
set salt_hog_max ((segmentdecks + 10) - (penance_suit_count / 2))
set gor_max ((segmentdecks + 6) - (penance_suit_count / 2))
set gem_slug_max (segmentdecks - (penance_suit_count / 2))
set karmarama_max ((segmentdecks + 4) - (penance_suit_count / 2))
set turakken_max ((segmentdecks + 6) - (penance_suit_count / 2))
set zedem_monk_max (segmentdecks + 6)
set memau_max (peep_count / 50)

As you can see it's all defined by creator of a mission - by default in sandbox they are dependent on the number of segments and penitents.

Binro_the_Heretic
1st Jul 2002, 12:49
But it seems like that's just the maximum number of certain types of peep you are allowed to have on the station, does it have anything to do with how many of a certain type of peep comes through the ports?

As I said, there were only five karmaramas on my station and I had six segments open on each deck at that point. There were no plants on the station because I hadn't hired any karmaramas.

JSWY
1st Jul 2002, 12:55
Looks like we need to probe deeper into the code to find the answers. Maybe we could create a Mod where certain peeps come abord after certain facilities are constructed.

Pinky the Cow
1st Jul 2002, 14:42
Originally posted by Binro_the_Heretic
... does it have anything to do with how many of a certain type of peep comes through the ports?Right after that piece of code there is a part about how often peeps of a certain type are entering the station.

As for your instance of lack of karmaramae check out an another example:

;PEEPS********************************************************************
:Peeps100
if
turn > allowpeeps
allowpeeps > 0
then
set grey_max (((room_count + greygood) - duffrooms) / 2)
set targ_max (((room_count + targgood) - duffrooms) / 2)
set siren_max ((((room_count + sirengood) - sirenbad) - duffrooms) / 2)
set male_siren_max ((((room_count + sirengood) - sirenbad) - duffrooms) / 2)
set salt_hog_max ((((room_count + salthoggood) - salthogbad) - duffrooms) / 2)
set gor_max ((((room_count + gorgood) - gorbad) - duffrooms) / 2)
set karmarama_max ((((room_count + karmagood) - karmabad) - duffrooms) / 2)
set turakken_max ((((room_count + turakkengood) - turakkenbad) - duffrooms) / 2)
set zedem_monk_max ((((room_count + zedemgood) - zedembad) - duffrooms) / 2)
:by the way, here is the speed of peeps' spawning
set grey_every (peepola * 6)
set targ_every (peepola * 6)
set siren_every (peepola * 25)
set male_siren_every (peepola * 25)
set salt_hog_every (peepola * 3)
set gor_every (peepola * 11)
set karmarama_every (peepola * 8)
set turakken_every (peepola * 14)
set zedem_monk_every (peepola * 10)
set allowpeeps (turn + 1000)
end

:Peeps200 Here are definitions of numbers affecting different peep_max values
if
turn > peepmods
then
set greygood (((sick_bay_count * 2) + two_star_hotel_count) + curio_gift_shop_count)
set targgood (((satcom_count * 2) + one_star_hotel_count) + holosuite_count)
set sirengood (((love_nest_count * 3) + one_star_hotel_count) + (disco_count * 2))
set sirenbad (temple_count * 6)
set salthoggood ((((recycler_count * 2) + (workshop_count * 2)) + (berth_count * 3)) + (beer_bar_count * 2))
set salthogbad ((cocktail_bar_count * 3) + (slugpartment_count * 3))
set gorgood ((((securitycontrol_count * 2) + (rough_bar_count * 2)) + (fighting_pit_count * 2)) + army_surplus_count)
set gorbad ((music_shop_count * 2) + (cocktail_bar_count * 2))
set karmagood (((music_shop_count * 2) + (disco_count * 2)) + (orophux_count * 2))
set karmabad (((army_surplus_count * 2) + (fighting_pit_count * 2)) + (gunner_count * 2))
:there you go, probably there were too many Security Columns on your station
set turakkengood ((((laboratory_count * 2) + (computer_shop_count * 2)) + holosuite_count) + satcom_count)
set turakkenbad (temple_count * 6)
set zedemgood (((temple_count * 8) + viewing_gallery_count) + father_zeodorus_count)
set zedembad love_nest_count
set duffrooms ((((((collector_count + collector_node_count) + recycler_count) + lavotron_count) + (gunner_count * 2)) + vendor_count) + workshop_count)

Binro_the_Heretic
1st Jul 2002, 16:21
Aha!

Actually, it was probably a total LACK of music shops and discos since I had only two security columns.

set karmagood (((music_shop_count * 2) + (disco_count * 2)) + (orophux_count * 2))

(and no Oroflex, either)

Thanks for digging through and finding all that. I'll have to use this info to set up "specialty" stations dominated by one particular alien race.

Binro_the_Heretic
1st Jul 2002, 19:31
So, this is how you arrive at your station's "duffroom" value:

((((((A + B) + C) + D) + (E multiplied by 2) + F) + G) = H

A = # of Energy Collectors
B = # of Power Boosters
C = # of Recyclers
D = # of Lavotrons
E = # of Security Columns
F = # of Dine-o-mats
G = # of Factories
H = total duffrom value

Okay, so I start a station with the following:

(1) Energy Collectors
(0) Power Boosters
(0) Recyclers
(1) Lavotrons
(0) Security Columns
(1) Dine-o-mats
(0) Factories

So the initial value of H = 3

In addition to the above hardplans, I also have:

(1) Berth
(1) Comsensor
(1) Port
(1) Recharger

So in the beginning, presuming I construct buildings from all my hardplans and presuming the game rounds half-peeps up to the next whole number, the maximum number of peeps total I can have is:

(2) Greys: (((7 Rooms + 0 Grey Preferred Rooms) - H) divided by 2)

(4) Grouliens ((((7 Rooms + 3 Groulien Preferred Rooms) - 0 Groulien Hated Rooms) - H) divided by 2)

(2) Karmaramas ((((7 Rooms + 0 Karmarama Preferred Rooms) - 0 Karmarama Hated Rooms) - H) divided by 2)

(2) Kasvagorians ((((7 Rooms + 0 Kasvagorian Preferred Rooms) - 0 Kasvagorian Hated Rooms) - H) divided by 2)

(3) Targs (((7 Rooms + 2 Targ Preferred Rooms) - H) divided by 2)

(3) Turrakens ((((7 Rooms + 1 Turraken Preferred Rooms) - 0 Turraken Hated Rooms) - H) divided by 2)

(3) Female Sirens ((((7 Rooms + 0 Siren Preferred Rooms) - 0 Siren Hated Rooms) - H) divided by 2)

(3) Male Sirens ((((7 Rooms + 0 Siren Preferred Rooms) - 0 Siren Hated Rooms) - H) divided by 2)

(3) Zedem ((((7 Rooms + 0 Zedem Preferred Rooms) - 0 Zedem Hated Rooms) - H) divided by 2)

And of course most new buildings are going to raise the potential for some peeps and reduce the potential for others.

The big question: Are residents included in this total?

If I hire three targ to operate my only Comsensor and don't add any targ preferred rooms (Comsensor, Star Motel or Holodrome) will three more targ visitors show up or is three targ the absolute maximum?

Binro_the_Heretic
1st Jul 2002, 21:05
Another important question:

Is a "temple" one single zedem temple in its entirety or does each individual menhir (standing stone) represent one temple each.

In other words, if I hire twelve zedem monks and each one raises its own menhir, does that count as twelve temples or does a single temple consist of the central pillar and twelve menhirs?

The reason I ask is because the maximum number of potential sirens is reduced by the presence of temples. Every temple means eight more potential zedem but also twelve less potential sirens and sirens are the rarest peeps anyway only boarding the station less than 1/8 times as often as salt-hogs. (the most common peeps)

Every love nest adds a potential for six more sirens, but also means one less potential for zedem which are also rare, only boarding the station about 1/6 times as often as salt-hogs.

However, Star Motels & discos increase siren potential without reducing zedem potential and Viewing Galleries & statues of Father Zeodorus increase zedem potential without reducing siren potential.

What I'm striving for is a balance of population.

AlphaOmega
1st Jul 2002, 22:05
Oy, this is starting to get too mathematical!

I believe each stone (code wise anyway) is "one temple", because you cant have more then one temple collection on your biodeck.

DMA57361
2nd Jul 2002, 15:13
Alpha - I think you can. You have to "borrow" it from an opponents bio-deck.

I'm sure I did that once and ended up with two. I think. :confused:

Binro_the_Heretic
2nd Jul 2002, 17:20
I'll see your "oy" and raise you one "vey."

Assuming each menhir counts as one temple, a full complement of twelve monks with one menhir each reduces total siren potential by...YE GODS! 144!!!

Just to negate the effects of the temple would take:

144 Star Motels

or

72 Discos

or

(36) Love Nests which reduces zedem potential by 36 except that each temple has potential for eight zedem so you would still have potential for 60 zedem even after subtracting the ones driven away by the love nests.

Wait! I didn't take into account the fact the number of rooms you build also determines peep potential.

I'll have to work this out on paper and give you the final results.

Bomber777
2nd Jul 2002, 17:55
Ok.... I'm getting confused.. This is all about how to attract more peeps.. Right? Or is it about how to get more of a certain peep? Might as well answer both..
The biodeck is a way to get karmaramans and if there are already plants, it improves the rate.

The entertainment deck is to attract mostly anything to your station, and also is a place to start finding peeps for jobs.

The bottom level is where the peeps work and can improve the rate of peeps coming onto the station with certain buildings. Or just the bare requirements will get something like salt hogs and grays and some targs. And in sandbox, all races should start coming to the station.

Don't know if this helps any in your quest to find the coding and get those mathematical figures done.
(I'm starting to sound like VAL)

Binro_the_Heretic
2nd Jul 2002, 21:15
I'm talking more about attracting certain types of peep to try and keep a good mix and balance of the population.

Every room adds to the potential number of peeps you can have in your station.

Some types of rooms subtract potential peeps from certain races.

Some rooms are even more attractive to certain types of peeps.

So what I didn't take into consideration was the fact a love nest has the potential to attract 8 sirens (4 male. 4 female)

The room itself add 1 male siren and one female siren to the total potential. Because the room is also a love nest, it adds 3 male sirens and 3 female sirens to the potential.

It also adds 1 to the potential number of zedem but because it is a love nest, it also subtracts 1 from the potential number of zedem.

So the zedem value of a love nest is zero and the siren value of a love nest is 8.

I'm going to try to work out a spreadsheet for calculating a station's peep potential based on the numbers and types of rooms it contains.

Pinky the Cow
4th Jul 2002, 05:29
Originally posted by Binro_the_Heretic
The big question: Are residents included in this total?


Yes,

salt_hog_count is a summary of all salt-hogs on the station while
peepstat race grey allset resident roger is a number of residential greys

Pinky the Cow
4th Jul 2002, 05:35
Originally posted by Binro_the_Heretic
Another important question:

Is a "temple" one single zedem temple in its entirety or does each individual menhir (standing stone) represent one temple each.

Do you remember those "hackers" proud of (cheating and) getting a temple in a placeportable crate? I'm positive that inside of it was an ever-to-build central crystal of a temple not a stone. And thus temple_count is a number of temples not stones. If it would be a number of stones though, you'd soon be overrun by monks, eight new monks having come to look at a new stone.

Pinky the Cow
4th Jul 2002, 05:40
Originally posted by Bomber777
The biodeck is a way to get karmaramans and if there are already plants, it improves the rate.
You wouldn't happen to have any proof, would you? :rolleyes:

kool_kats_rule
20th Jul 2002, 15:13
Aren't menhirs what you get in Asterix?

All this code is making my brain ache. I think I'll leave now.

SkrasherSmasher
20th Jul 2002, 23:59
Yeah, this makes my head hurt too, but thats just because I have a *bleep*ing migrane. Is there someplace where I can find exactly what types of buildings attract a certain type of peep, along with which send them away?

Pinky the Cow
21st Jul 2002, 07:54
Look for a mish.txt and peeps*.txt in the mission folder. You see anyone can make anything he wants for example


set zedem_monk_max (love_nest_count * 50):rolleyes:

SkrasherSmasher
22nd Jul 2002, 02:02
Oh no, invasion of the monks with 'questionable practices':eek:

DoctorX
23rd Jul 2002, 11:29
I managed once to complete bring the number of Peeps coming aboard on the first single player mission to zero just by hiring every single Peep aboard - so I think the number of Residents to Visitors also plays a part in deciding who and how many come aboard.

AlphaOmega
24th Jul 2002, 05:58
Hello DoctorX, welcome to our forum, or Sector-Zeta-Omicron Salty-Arm-6 as we like to call it for short.

Nice website by the way! Good to see a nice solid fansite out there!

DoctorX
24th Jul 2002, 10:23
Why, thanks! Its a fine, upstanding Station you have here.

Yeah, my "Rule of Thumb Guide" to Startopia is just getting bigger and bigger. If it keeps growing at this rate I'll have to call it a Neurotic Bean Counters Guide instead... :P

MunkeeChum
24th Jul 2002, 12:17
It is a nice site :)

Will you be putting Warcraft III stuff up soon? Its a damn good game.



.
.
.
.
.
But not as good as Startopia of course.

Phew, that could have gotten ugly.

DoctorX
25th Jul 2002, 09:43
Hardly. Munkee, hardly. Yeah I keep hearing okay things about Warcraft III, so I guess I'll have to suss it out. If Blizzard's gone and improved their unit AI's and game mechanics and tamed those spotty hordes on B.Net then it might just be worth a quick whirl.

Oh, and of course, no where near as fantasical as Startopia etc etc etc. Although I hear a lot of jolly fine ideas had to be dropped at the last minute to get it out, alas.

kool_kats_rule
31st Jul 2002, 12:21
I wonder if they'll bring out a sequel?

AlphaOmega
31st Jul 2002, 19:29
Perhaps one day...

Don't hold your breath though.

kool_kats_rule
1st Aug 2002, 11:07
We can only hope.

Hand-E-Food
23rd Sep 2002, 05:25
Big problem!

I cannot get any peeps on my station in my mods. Using Place_Peep works fine, but from what I understand I shouldn't have to. I Set PeepType_Max and PeepType_Every to positive values and ArrivalInterval to zero, but nobody comes through my port. Do you need more files than just mish.txt to get peeps to come abord randomly? This is the only thing stopping me from modding and I need help.

Quiet sobbing...