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View Full Version : Change the name of the new Zephonim map from 'The Nest' to 'Silenced Cathedral'



CountEyokir
12th Dec 2015, 15:51
http://www.nosgoth.com/system/rich/rich_files/rich_files/000/000/677/blog/awesomeshot.jpg
As we saw in the preview of the upcoming map, the current placeholder name for the 'Nest' map is 'Silenced Cathedral. I think it ought to stay with that placeholder name both please old fans and to entice new one to learn why it has that name. Do you agree with me?

Captain3009
12th Dec 2015, 18:11
just voted yes. :wave:

Ysanoire
12th Dec 2015, 19:03
But it's not the cathedral, it's some area surrounding it.

Nest is fine imo.

CountEyokir
12th Dec 2015, 19:24
actually based on what I could see, the map is in the cathedral itself, directly underneath it with the rise of it towering above

Lord_Aevum
12th Dec 2015, 19:26
But it's not the cathedral, it's some area surrounding it.

Nest is fine imo.

Nope, it is supposed to be literally inside the Cathedral. The large tower in the background is the ventilation area accessed by Raziel in Soul Reaver.

calypso-694
12th Dec 2015, 20:24
The Nest is a fine name. this is Nosgoth NOT Soul Reaver.

the devs have habit of the map names for vamps already down. And The Nest flows with the zephonim and their bug themem.

The Crucible
The Nest
The Fane
etc for vampire names

plus all the humans have singular names with the vamps have a "the" proceeding it
its short and sweet like the other named maps

The Silenced Cathedral implies one big cathedral map. not this blocked of housing section.

again Nosgoth isn't Soul Reaver.

CountEyokir
12th Dec 2015, 20:44
The Nest is a fine name. this is Nosgoth NOT Soul Reaver.

the devs have habit of the map names for vamps already down. And The Nest flows with the zephonim and their bug themem.

The Crucible
The Nest
The Fane
etc for vampire names

plus all the humans have singular names with the vamps have a "the" proceeding it
its short and sweet like the other named maps

The Silenced Cathedral implies one big cathedral map. not this blocked of housing section.

again Nosgoth isn't Soul Reaver.

I'd actually argue that having 'The (insert name here)' for the Vampire maps tends to make this less unique and common typical fantasy rather then the rich world full of interesting lore its supposed to be. Besides which, yes Nosgoth isn't Soul Reaver - but what exactly does that matter? If a place has a name already, why rename it? Besides which - one of the stated reasons and justification for Nosgoth existing was to entice new fans into the background lore its based on and so far its done little towards that goal. The changing of a maps name is not to much to ask for at least a token show towards that end

lucinvampire
12th Dec 2015, 21:20
I'm gonna say yarp :)

Vampmaster
12th Dec 2015, 21:31
Nope, it is supposed to be literally inside the Cathedral. The large tower in the background is the ventilation area accessed by Raziel in Soul Reaver.

I thought it was meant to be a separate building too until you said otherwise. Can you show me specifically which parts you're referring to. If and only if it is indeed intended to be the same building then the rename has my vote.

Ygdrasel
12th Dec 2015, 23:10
actually based on what I could see, the map is in the cathedral itself, directly underneath it with the rise of it towering above

Nope, it is supposed to be literally inside the Cathedral. The large tower in the background is the ventilation area accessed by Raziel in Soul Reaver.

I thought it was meant to be a separate building too until you said otherwise. Can you show me specifically which parts you're referring to. If and only if it is indeed intended to be the same building then you have my vote on the rename,

"While this cathedral itself was built atop a sheer mountain cliff top, the critical axillary structures and supporting areas came to be carved out of the cliffs and valleys for miles around..."

"The critical axillary structures and supporting areas" including what is currently The Nest, carved from surrounding cliffs and specifically separated from "the cathedral itself"...


As for the name change: It occurs to me that Soul Reaver had a similar trend for locations. The Necropolis. The Silenced Cathedral. The Drowned Abbey. The Ruined City.

But even then, they varied it with different word counts and description of the actual area. The Necropolis is a big graveyard. The Cathedral is a cathedral. The Abbey is an abbey...And these were really just the remnants of old greater, probably actually-titled territories, given the dying state of the empire.

Meanwhile, Nosgoth in an era where Kain's empire was properly thriving and ought to have regions worthy of actual names:

The Fane is more a vault or small residential area than a temple/shrine (I.E. fane) but fine. The Crucible is more of a reputation-based nickname than anything ('crucible' being a place of trials and tribulations), probably just used by the human slaves. Maybe the vamps latched on to the name to terrorize the slaves they ship off there. Okay, that fits.

But "The Nest" is just...I mean, it's a place where Zephonim might 'nest', okay, but you don't see me calling my house "The Sleep" because I've got a bed in there.


Kain had a thriving empire in this era. Surely some of it was properly named. Keep The Fane if you like (I can repress my pedanticism) and The Crucible actually works well but...Seriously, I doubt these vain ostentatious conquerers, in the height of their empire, just call all of their places "The [Blank]".


The text plainly goes out of its way to separate "The Nest" from the Cathedral itself so I'm not sure of that particular name either (and as for enticing the new fans - I haven't met one in-game that cared at all to learn anything of the series anyway so it seems a wasted effort). Jury's out for me on Silenced Cathedral but some change would be preferred - or, at least, some future breakage of the trend.

Lord_Aevum
12th Dec 2015, 23:33
"While this cathedral itself was built atop a sheer mountain cliff top, the critical axillary structures and supporting areas came to be carved out of the cliffs and valleys for miles around..."

"The critical axillary structures and supporting areas" including what is currently The Nest, carved from surrounding cliffs and specifically separated from "the cathedral itself"...

The community manager is in the best position to clarify, but my understanding is that the promotional text is actually outdated and incorrect on that matter.

GenFeelGood
12th Dec 2015, 23:35
If we are gonna go with a "The" then I'd prefer "The Cocoon" since that is one of things Zephon referred to it as in Soul Reaver.

For those that say we can't call it the Silenced Cathedral because the map is technically located just outside the threshold of said cathedral. Be honest, did you really not consider yourself to be in the cathedral when you went through the area that corresponds to this new map when you first played through Soul Reaver?

Ygdrasel
12th Dec 2015, 23:45
If we are gonna go with a "The" then I'd prefer "The Cocoon" since that is one of things Zephon referred to it as in Soul Reaver.

For those that say we can't call it the Silenced Cathedral because the map is technically located just outside the threshold of said cathedral. Be honest, did you really not consider yourself to be in the cathedral when you went through the area that corresponds to this new map when you first played through Soul Reaver?

Which area is that? From my understanding, these maps don't correspond to any areas explicitly shown in the series before (Provance, Valeholm, etcetera being little more than map markers before Nosgoth, the vamp maps being new places entirely). If you just mean that area right outside the cathedral door...Yeah, that's not in the cathedral, but also not this place...

If this could be called the Silenced Cathedral despite being 'just outside', the Crucible ought to be called the Smokestack.

calypso-694
13th Dec 2015, 01:09
im surpised this is such a complaint for a map. nobody cried when the curicible was shown and found out its the forgery and a bit of a slave pit gladiator thing going on. after all the turelims location is the smoke stacks and they built them so why not call it that? nobody cared. the fane was new but was basically an underground version of Raziels territory.

the thing with these maps is that they are small potions of LARGE areas we are cut off to.

In the fane you can clearly see a more expanded area but its blocked off, just like sommerdamm, crucible even this new nest is just a small area of a much larger one.

and NO I didn't consider myself in the Cathedral until I saw pipes and started solving block puzzles.

The Nest isn't the cathedral. from what I could tell and at least assumed. its a modern day recreation of that little area of houses you see just before you actually enter the cathedral itself.

nest


/nest/


noun

noun: nest; plural noun: nests



1. a structure or place made or chosen by a bird for laying eggs and sheltering its young.

synonyms: roost, aerie
"the birds built a nest"




•a place where an animal or insect breeds or shelters.
"an ants' nest"


synonyms: lair, den, burrow
"the animals disperse rapidly from the nest"




•a person's snug or secluded retreat or shelter.

synonyms: hideaway, hideout, retreat, shelter, refuge, den
"a cozy love nest"

•a bowl-shaped object likened to a bird's nest.
"arrange in nests of lettuce leaves"



•a place filled with or frequented by undesirable people or things.
"a nest of spies"


synonyms: hotbed, den, breeding ground, cradle
"a nest of intrigue"






2. a set of similar objects of graduated sizes, made so that each smaller one fits into the next in size for storage.
"a nest of tables"



verb

verb: nest; 3rd person present: nests; past tense: nested; past participle: nested; gerund or present participle: nesting



1. (of a bird or other animal) use or build a nest.
"the owls often nest in barns"




2. fit (an object or objects) inside a larger one.


so by these definitions the entire Silelnced Cathedral could be The Nest. a nest is what animals call home. seeing as how its Zephon
territory and its their home, its their nest.

I have an idea.

why don't we all give lists of potential names just like we did for the renaming of the now Vanguard class aka Shield Bearer

Vampmaster
13th Dec 2015, 02:33
I still need to confirm what was said about it being the exact same building, but if it's not, then I see no reason not to continue to flesh out the world by having it be considered a seperate location. I've given my opinion on the scale of Nosgoth in the thread in the announcements forum and as I said there I stongly dissagree with notions like clans or factions being contained to a single building when Kain conquered most of the known world or that the map in BO1 comprises the entirety of the planet. Because of that I have no problem with updated versions of locations in previous games being larger or having more rooms or roads than the earlier games ***except in cases where the script is dependant on it***. Having the bunch of huts (or whatever they were) outside the cathedral be reenvisioned as a whole separate town seems completely reasonable to me taking into account that the SR1 team did not have the unlimited resourced needed to create Nosgoth as a life sized planet.

I didn't mean that to turn into a rant. I was just trying to stress that there is a huge amount of room with which to introduce new locations.

mambasa
13th Dec 2015, 04:27
I vote for The Nest. It purrfect

KaininitePriestess
13th Dec 2015, 04:42
Which area is that? From my understanding, these maps don't correspond to any areas explicitly shown in the series before (Provance, Valeholm, etcetera being little more than map markers before Nosgoth, the vamp maps being new places entirely).

Actually, Sommerdamm is a part of Meridian, so not all of the maps are part of completely new, unexplored areas. (Also, you could argue the same applies to the Crucible, but since that region was deleted from Soul Reaver before a proper release and was only seen in one of the earliest demo disks, it's a little stickier of a debate.)

On the subject of the Silenced Cathedral, I say we keep the name from Soul Reaver. It already has a canon name, so why change it? Unlike a city like Meridian, which will have different names for it's neighborhoods and suburbs - which are all quite large areas of land to begin with - a building is only going to have one name. You could argue that a Cathedral will have a cloister, a choir, an ambulatory, but those are all very small areas and wouldn't do to naming an entire map after those things. Same as the Fane is one large temple with different names for the rooms or halls - the Dining Hall, the Eternal Shrine, etc - in the map's different regions.

Long story short, The Silenced Cathedral is a part of the Cathedral and should keep that name since it's already been named in canon and doesn't need a new one.

calypso-694
13th Dec 2015, 04:59
Actually, Sommerdamm is a part of Meridian, so not all of the maps are part of completely new, unexplored areas. (Also, you could argue the same applies to the Crucible, but since that region was deleted from Soul Reaver before a proper release and was only seen in one of the earliest demo disks, it's a little stickier of a debate.)

On the subject of the Silenced Cathedral, I say we keep the name from Soul Reaver. It already has a canon name, so why change it? Unlike a city like Meridian, which will have different names for it's neighborhoods and suburbs - which are all quite large areas of land to begin with - a building is only going to have one name. You could argue that a Cathedral will have a cloister, a choir, an ambulatory, but those are all very small areas and wouldn't do to naming an entire map after those things. Same as the Fane is one large temple with different names for the rooms or halls - the Dining Hall, the Eternal Shrine, etc - in the map's different regions.

Long story short, The Silenced Cathedral is a part of the Cathedral and should keep that name since it's already been named in canon and doesn't need a new one.

I feel you BUT a counter to that is that do you name your area after the church you attned? the cathedral is just that A GIANT FREAKING CATHEDRAL. The Nest is like a town (well section of one) that's housed under it. ill use the same example as the crucible YES its part of the smoke stacks seeing as how its at the base of them but it isn't the stacks themselves. muchfr like how the nest isn't really the cathedral. its separate from the inner workings of the cathedral. if the went ahead and recreated the first or second part of that level from SR then feel free to call it the cathedral.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGXFX6SP9bw

the only area the nest resembles a bit is the area at about 3 min in just before you actually enter it.

also about naming it SC to inspire new fans to look into why its called that not one of them will care. the average online player plays just to play. they wont care about the origins of valeholm and province, or why these vampires are the way they are. Sure might be a bit like "huh Nosgoth hmm" but it wont inspire them to dig deep. after all it IS just an online game at its core. the lore is here more than anything to give us a story fix. all the friends ive told about Nosgoth just think its a cool left for dead clone. they play for 2 min then go back to COD or Destiny.

KaininitePriestess
13th Dec 2015, 05:43
I feel you BUT a counter to that is that do you name your area after the church you attned? the cathedral is just that A GIANT FREAKING CATHEDRAL. The Nest is like a town (well section of one) that's housed under it. ill use the same example as the crucible YES its part of the smoke stacks seeing as how its at the base of them but it isn't the stacks themselves. muchfr like how the nest isn't really the cathedral. its separate from the inner workings of the cathedral. if the went ahead and recreated the first or second part of that level from SR then feel free to call it the cathedral.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGXFX6SP9bw

the only area the nest resembles a bit is the area at about 3 min in just before you actually enter it.

It was my understanding that the map was set in the Cathedral itself. And there are names for places that are related to the name of the church or cathedral that it's built up around in some areas. You most often see it used in Parish, etc. It comprises all of the people of that faith within a certain geographical region, so people can be a part of "Such-and-such Cathedral Parish," which is another name for a group of houses or other things in a given region. Louisiana uses the names of Parishes for Counties, apparently, too. So it's not unheard of.

calypso-694
13th Dec 2015, 05:47
the more you know

Gugulug5000
13th Dec 2015, 06:31
I have an idea.

why don't we all give lists of potential names just like we did for the renaming of the now Vanguard class aka Shield Bearer

Can't hurt to throw out ideas. I personally think calling it The Silenced Cathedral is better than The Nest, but I don't think calling it the Silenced Cathedral is quite correct. How about calling it The Warrens, as in The Warrens of the Silenced Cathedral?

Vampmaster
13th Dec 2015, 12:36
If it's the town surrounding the cathedral, how about calling it Domfreiheit?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domfreiheit

That sounds like a good name for a town and fits in with the germanic names a lot of locations in Nosgoth. I was originally looking for a word meaning the surrounding area of a cathedral, but could only find "Close", which would have just sounded lame, but that had a link to Domfreiheit. I'd lost the 'the' part though.

Ysanoire
13th Dec 2015, 14:41
I'm sorry, but I don't like any of your suggestions.

Vampmaster
13th Dec 2015, 15:01
I'm sorry, but I don't like any of your suggestions.

That's alright, was only spitballing. Unless you were opposed to the whole thing about the size of the land. How big would you estimate Nosgoth is?

ParadoxicalOmen
13th Dec 2015, 15:52
I do prefer "Silenced Cathedral"...but calypso does make a good point:


The Nest is a fine name. this is Nosgoth NOT Soul Reaver.

the devs have habit of the map names for vamps already down. And The Nest flows with the zephonim and their bug themem.

The Crucible
The Nest
The Fane
etc for vampire names

plus all the humans have singular names with the vamps have a "the" proceeding it
its short and sweet like the other named maps

The Silenced Cathedral implies one big cathedral map. not this blocked of housing section.

again Nosgoth isn't Soul Reaver.

Im fine with any honestly (so i didn't vote)

GenFeelGood
14th Dec 2015, 01:58
Things is, the devs said they'd consider suggestions for the Vanguard's name, when it was the Shield Bearer; and unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case this time around.



My lord I didn’t think there would be such distaste for the word “The” :P. I kid, you bring up a fair point regarding a bit of a trend with map naming schemes beginning to emerge. That probably won’t change with this release, but it’s something that we can bear in mind with any potential maps after this.

If the devs are open to suggestions, I'd like to offer "The Spire" as an option.

calypso-694
14th Dec 2015, 04:07
so I just did some research on what the fancy term in latin is for spider nest and its Nidus. also Spiders sometimes hypnotize their mates to make of the babies. pretty cool seeing as how zephonim have that mind control ability. now we have justification for it if anyone is still peeved about that lol

Ysanoire
14th Dec 2015, 05:07
That's alright, was only spitballing. Unless you were opposed to the whole thing about the size of the land.

Just meant all the alternative names proposed.

CountEyokir
14th Dec 2015, 23:00
I still maintain more naming links to the actual LoK series is an essential element that is required.

Ygdrasel
15th Dec 2015, 00:18
If it's the town surrounding the cathedral, how about calling it Domfreiheit?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domfreiheit

That sounds like a good name for a town and fits in with the germanic names a lot of locations in Nosgoth. I was originally looking for a word meaning the surrounding area of a cathedral, but could only find "Close", which would have just sounded lame, but that had a link to Domfreiheit. I'd lost the 'the' part though.

Um...Where is there a town around the cathedral? :scratch: It's surrounded by unsettled mountain (albeit some of which was apparently carved into) and enclosed entirely behind a gate bearing a Reaver sigil. I rather like "Domfreiheit" though. Brings some of that Germanic sound to Nosgoth. If sticking with a "The _____" variant, Gugulug's "The Warrens" ('warrens' being 'a network of interconnecting burrows') fits better than The Nest. This place seems less a proper nesting ground and more a temporary little hobbit hole - one of eventually many, the text might imply - on the way to taking the Cathedral.


@Eyokir: I simply doubt copy-pasting old names will work up much if any interest from Nosgoth players. The type who mainly go in for this competitive e-sports stuff aren't the type to care for complicated single-player story affairs. Visual links like the Zephon statue, lore links, these flesh things out in an interesting way or add new things. As far as naming, Nosgoth ought to flesh out the world rather than constrain it by sticking to old titles for new regions.



Actually, Sommerdamm is a part of Meridian, so not all of the maps are part of completely new, unexplored areas.

Long story short, The Silenced Cathedral is a part of the Cathedral and should keep that name since it's already been named in canon and doesn't need a new one.

Sommerdamm is a defensive fort built a mile out from Meridian's walls. Hardly a part of it.

And The Silenced Cathedral is indeed a part of the cathedral - in fact, the entirety of it. But this still seems a separate area.

Khalith
18th Dec 2015, 16:57
I will have to also agree on changing the name to the Silenced Cathedral. The reason for that being: this map already has a name in the official lore. It is the Silenced Cathedral and should be named as such.

The "Fane" and "Crucible" names were fine for the Turelim/Razielim map because we didn't have the name of those official territories yet, unlike the Cathedral where do know the name in the lore. This is something that definitely should be changed.