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View Full Version : My main problems and how to improve Nosgoth.



Numeta
2nd Dec 2015, 00:29
1. Fix the physics with Tyrant's Shockwave. On stairs this ability will never land or hit.
2. Fix Hunter's Grenade not exploding if thrown before death.
3. Stop giving players "Cash chest" that we have to pay to open. It's the worst thing you could ever do in terms of rewarding a person for playing your game.
4. Nuke the current forge and allow the player to CHOOSE which prefix and suffix they want on their item. The random enchanting is beyond terrible. It's a waste of gold and time considering the meager payout of each 20 minute match.

Ygdrasel
2nd Dec 2015, 05:25
#3 should be #1, I'd say. Though to be fair, it's not meant as a reward anyway. It's meant to rob you.

The forge shouldn't be random, or else not so expensive.

perpetualodium
2nd Dec 2015, 19:15
I agree that it would be a good idea to cut down on giving the players chests that need a key to be opened. Don't cut it out entirely, but reduce the drop rate so that they're reasonably rare. It just seems tacky (and this is coming from someone who's spent a decent chunk of cash on runestones).

I disagree completely with point #4. The forge is great. It could use some tweaks, additional stats (poison resist, anyone?), and maybe a 25% price cut, but overall it's great. I really like the system.

Ygdrasel
2nd Dec 2015, 22:29
Don't cut it out entirely

Why not? It's awful...

ParadoxicalOmen
2nd Dec 2015, 23:53
#4) I get the idea that they want us to farm for our stuff, but it feels wrong...u get too little gold without boosters, and the forging items are random.

I think Nosgoth should take some inspiration from other f2p games. Make the materials be related to the map u are playing on, and make the quantity random (not the drop).

perpetualodium
3rd Dec 2015, 00:11
Why not? It's awful...

Uh, 'cause they'd never do that? It's an incentive for peeps to spend. They want money.

Numeta
3rd Dec 2015, 01:08
This game is going to die before people find a good reason to play it, let alone spend money on it. The game has to be enjoyable to play and grind so that people actually want to put time into it. As it stands this game is dead as hell because of the system they have now.

Sorry that's the truth.

perpetualodium
3rd Dec 2015, 02:10
This game is going to die before people find a good reason to play it, let alone spend money on it. The game has to be enjoyable to play and grind so that people actually want to put time into it. As it stands this game is dead as hell because of the system they have now.

Sorry that's the truth.

Nope, it really isn't. First of all, the game has a thousand hours worth of content. When observing profiles, I constistently see that people have over three hundred (and often over six hundred) hours invested into Nosgoth. Quite a number of people have logged over a thousand. Personally, I've logged eighty-three in less than a month. That's more value than the majority of AAA retail releases. I agree that the grind is difficult, but it's also intensely rewarding. The forge system is good. Not great, but good.

You're being extremely negative, which is the trend around here. It's sad to see the developers of such a good F2P game be so underappreciated. Nosgoth isn't perfect, but it's a lot better than what you give it credit for. And it will improve.

TheDreamcrusher
3rd Dec 2015, 03:06
#1 - All area-of-effect abilities need to be reworked entirely, vampire melee included. Missing and not dealing damage due to height differences in this game is a very serious indication of unfinished development. Check out how Choking Haze versus Poison Mist (reaver and alchemist) works. Poison Mist does damage in a vertical radius, where nothing besides Air Strike does damage on a vertical radius. Not Shockwave, Jump Attack, Hellstrike, Dive Bomb, etc. All of these need to be redesigned to strike a spherical shape, not a disc one.

#3 - No one in their right mind loves chests.

#4 - For the price I pay at the forge for changing a mysterious item effect, I should get my choice of prefix or suffix. I should also be able to see what effects are possible for what I want to enchant. This hidden list is utter BS.

Ygdrasel
3rd Dec 2015, 04:11
Uh, 'cause they'd never do that? It's an incentive for peeps to spend. They want money.

Right except if you ask literally anybody here, they'll tell you that chests are garbage that, if anything, actually discourage spending money on them by being gambling BS stuffed with junk filler like boosters.

And there is absolutely not one-thousand hours of content. I mean, you could play for one-thousand hours but that's true of Scrabble too. That's not what "a thousand hours worth of content" means. "A thousand hours worth of content" means that it will take the average player that much time to experience all major content that the game offers. And in Nosgoth's case, such a claim is only the purest of utter bunk.

Maybe that's "extremely negative" but I'd rather be honest in negativity than a sycophant churning out hyperbolic praises.

@Paradox: That sounds like an interesting idea. And a very good one. Though, wouldn't we need a Dark Eden map to drop the dark materials or whatever they're called here?

perpetualodium
3rd Dec 2015, 05:08
Right except if you ask literally anybody here, they'll tell you that chests are garbage that, if anything, actually discourage spending money on them by being gambling BS stuffed with junk filler like boosters.

And there is absolutely not one-thousand hours of content. I mean, you could play for one-thousand hours but that's true of Scrabble too. That's not what "a thousand hours worth of content" means. "A thousand hours worth of content" means that it will take the average player that much time to experience all major content that the game offers. And in Nosgoth's case, such a claim is only the purest of utter bunk.

Maybe that's "extremely negative" but I'd rather be honest in negativity than a sycophant churning out hyperbolic praises.

You probably don't intend to, but you're coming across as toxic. There's no reason to be passive aggressive. I'm no sycophant. It's a multiplayer game. A thousand hours is a thousand hours. I'm seeing a ton of people who have poured hundreds of hours into this game, and you're telling me the game doesn't have hundreds of hours worth of replayability? I'd say it has as much replayability as any multiplayer team deathmatch game. Content, replayability, whatever. It's all the same. No need to nitpick or argue semantics.

And please. Stop being rude. You're passionate about Legacy of Kain, and that's awesome. I'm the same way about my favourite game series. There's no reason we can't get along. Hell, I just bought a sealed, mint copy of Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain. I'm looking forward to playing the entire series. I was never against putting more lore in Nosgoth. I just think the team needs to be focused on the multiplayer core of the game. I want this series to survive, and we're not going to get another Legacy of Kain game if Nosgoth doesn't do well. It's going to live and die on its competitive multiplayer.

And yeah, I'm trying to bring some positivity to these forums. I think it's incredibly fun. I'm not doing it for praise, though. I genuinely like the game.

Ygdrasel
3rd Dec 2015, 05:58
I'm seeing a ton of people who have poured hundreds of hours into this game, and you're telling me the game doesn't have hundreds of hours worth of replayability?


Not whatever. Not the same. Not semantics. Replayability is a different matter than content. It's misleading (at least) to say it has a thousand hours worth of content, pure and simple. It doesn't. A few hours of replayable content is still just a few hours of content. You don't put Solaris on loop and call it a six-hour film. Just a three-hour film replayed.

It's certainly fun. But it is also repulsively flawed in its money-making methods, a fault you did not address. Neither has Squeenix.

The multiplayer core should be good and that's exactly where the grind (like the forge) fails. Too much grind for not enough progression. This isn't Final Fantasy. Nobody wants a slow painful hours-upon-hours grind here. They want to pop in, play a few rounds, and still progress reasonably enough to keep up.

perpetualodium
3rd Dec 2015, 06:40
Nobody wants a slow painful hours-upon-hours grind here. They want to pop in, play a few rounds, and still progress reasonably enough to keep up.

Speak for yourself, dude. I live for the grind. The F2P model is flawed, yeah, but I'm fine with heavy grinding. And for those with the All Booster 100%, that's just what it is. A heavy grind. Without it the grind is torturous, but that's the price of playing for free. I'm in support of adjusting the system, but I think the principles are solid. It's a business.

The chests, however, need to be better. There's no excuse, other than the fact that it takes time to implement changes. There's probably hoops to jump through with Square-Enix. There's probably pressure on Psyonix to rake in the cash. The way I see it, though, there needs to be less RNG. There's too much garbage in the chests. The skins are great. The unique weapons and abilities are great. The murderous abilities are great. There's no reason I should be getting an Arcane weapon when I buy a chest, though. Also, there's no great reason to buy keys. Buying chests is the way to go. The chests that drop in matches don't have skins in them.

It seems like a rough system, but that's probably because it is. Changes do need to be made, but let's not forget that this game is in Early Access. This isn't the final product.

Farnbeak
3rd Dec 2015, 09:06
Hey perpetualodium,


I live for the grind ... Without it the grind is torturous, but that's the price of playing for free

So there's this specific sort of grind you live for (with 100% booster), and there's that grind that is 'tortureous' (without boost)? Considering the majority of players are not using 100% boosters, you basically agree that "Nobody wants a slow painful hours-upon-hours grind here", unless you use the word 'torture' as a positive. And that's even with that love for the grind.
Of course I understand your message about the f2p flawed model and everyone should just get that booster and enjoy their grind, but the use of "It's a business" in such context by a customer does make me suspectful of a slight stockholm syndrome :)
This + the whole grind-conditioning thing in context. + Lottery on top of that, but we are one of that issue :thumb:


Also I'd like to point that even though Ygdrasel's tone may be critical, that was not nitpicking or arguing semantics in case of 'content/replayability'. They are sometimes positively corelated but are not the same at all.
Just look at Chess, Go, or even Scrabble - these games have almost infinite replayability but they have very limited content. And actually more content would be detrimental for them due to their clear and minimalistic design.
That's entirely not the case for Nosgoth's design, that relies heavily on a whole lot of variables during gameplay (teams class picks, loadouts, poisitioning, behaviour preferences, communication, dynamic states and values such as hp/ammo/disables etc.). Gameplay is rich due to the latter half of mentioned points, but the Content part is lacking. Have you ever had the painful dilemma of choosing a sentinel primary ability, for example? (Its also the lack of balancing in many cases, but most often you have the choice of 2 or 3 anyways, even disregarding what's a viable choice at all)

perpetualodium
3rd Dec 2015, 17:15
So there's this specific sort of grind you live for (with 100% booster), and there's that grind that is 'tortureous' (without boost)?

Yeah. With the booster, it's a slow grind. Without the booster, it's twice as slow.


Of course I understand your message about the f2p flawed model and everyone should just get that booster and enjoy their grind, but the use of "It's a business" in such context by a customer does make me suspectful of a slight stockholm syndrome :)

Nah. It's just logic.


Also I'd like to point that even though Ygdrasel's tone may be critical, that was not nitpicking or arguing semantics in case of 'content/replayability'. They are sometimes positively corelated but are not the same at all.

I don't really care. I'm not picking my words carefully. Six hundred hours is six hundred hours. If you're not bored, then you're not bored. If you want to keep playing, then you want to keep playing. In no way shape or form am I saying that I don't want to see new content added to Nosgoth. I'm psyched about the new map. A new class would be amazing. New game modes would be great. The content that we do have, though, has gone a long way.

Numeta
3rd Dec 2015, 20:02
Alright that's enough. Keep on topic and not pointed at each other.

perpetualodium
3rd Dec 2015, 21:00
Alright that's enough. Keep on topic and not pointed at each other.

You're late. Everything is calm. We didn't need your admonition. Besides, we're adults. We can argue, discuss, and disagree without letting things escalate.

Numeta
3rd Dec 2015, 22:23
I've been playing this game since it came out. So like a year and + months. There are still problems in this game that are unaddressed. It's mind BOGGLING. I don't understand what this company is doing with their time and resources?

Shockwave STILL doesnt work on stairs
Hunter Grenades STILL DONT EXPLODE AFTER DEATH. HOW DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE? HOW CAN THIS GO UNFIXED FOR SO LONG?
I can't Whip a Reaver that has Evasion up. How does this make any sense?

Fix your game

ParadoxicalOmen
4th Dec 2015, 01:41
@Numeta
Still haven't fixed the Vanguard reload bug too...(where you can't block if reloading)

perpetualodium
4th Dec 2015, 02:01
This is the kind of toxicity I'm talking about. Just brutal. Chill out. There's no reason to flip out.